Guest guest Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 A bit of a side track, but since there seems to be nothing about HCQ and tendon damage in the literature, despite its being a quinolone, I'm wondering if the tendon problem with drugs like Cipro is that they're FLOUROquinolones? That could explain it, although it wouldn't explain a few people reporting tendon problems on Samento, another quinolone, but Samento's not man-made, as are the flouroquinolones. Anyone know what HCQ is exactly? Synthetic, organic? I'm just curious, because I'm going to start HCQ when I get back, and the tendon thing has been holding me back til now. penny > Jim: > I did a search for you. > You may want to pass this info on to your Dr. > > I agree with HCQ taken with a fungal, as the alkalizing properties of > HCQ on the cell compartment work the same for the 'azoles' as they do > for abx. You could kill alot with the CORRECT dosages.. key words > being the CORRECT. DO not assume the normal mono therapy doses apply > with these two in combo. > > Tinidazole's main pathway for metabolism and is considered a > cyp3A4 substrate (and a minor 2C9 substrate).(see ref 1) > > CQ (chloroquine)uses cyp3A4 as one of the pathways for it's metabolism > (reference 2) so most likekly HCQ does too. > > There's going to be competition for this enzyme, resluting in one or > the other (drug) to reach higher consentrations in the body... and > since the consentration of HCQ varies enormously between individuals - > I would be very carefull. > > I would not assume adverse reactions with this combo to be > a 'herx'. It's much more likely a drug-drug interaction. > > > > Ref 1 > http://www.tindamax.com/Med%20Letter.pdf > > ref 2 > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12967198 & query_hl=29 > > Barb > PS. > I think mixing HCQ with some drugs as 'smart bombs'.. but mixed the > wrong way and you get a 'dirty bomb' with alot of collateral damage. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2005 Report Share Posted June 27, 2005 Penny: We had this discussion a couple of times before. There is a big distingtion between a quinolone, (note the " o " ) and a quinoline (note the " i " ) and a FLUROquinolone. HCQ is a derivative of a quinoline. Theres not the same tendon problems as the " fluro " and " olines " . But note my previous posts- there can be a WIDE variation in the consentration levels from individual to individual so if you haven't taken this before, it's a drug you need to monitor to see how you react to it. And be carefull mixing it with other drugs. Barb > > Jim: > > I did a search for you. > > You may want to pass this info on to your Dr. > > > > I agree with HCQ taken with a fungal, as the alkalizing properties > of > > HCQ on the cell compartment work the same for the 'azoles' as they > do > > for abx. You could kill alot with the CORRECT dosages.. key words > > being the CORRECT. DO not assume the normal mono therapy doses > apply > > with these two in combo. > > > > Tinidazole's main pathway for metabolism and is considered a > > cyp3A4 substrate (and a minor 2C9 substrate).(see ref 1) > > > > CQ (chloroquine)uses cyp3A4 as one of the pathways for it's > metabolism > > (reference 2) so most likekly HCQ does too. > > > > There's going to be competition for this enzyme, resluting in one > or > > the other (drug) to reach higher consentrations in the body... and > > since the consentration of HCQ varies enormously between > individuals - > > I would be very carefull. > > > > I would not assume adverse reactions with this combo to be > > a 'herx'. It's much more likely a drug-drug interaction. > > > > > > > > Ref 1 > > http://www.tindamax.com/Med%20Letter.pdf > > > > ref 2 > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12967198 & query_hl=29 > > > > Barb > > PS. > > I think mixing HCQ with some drugs as 'smart bombs'.. but mixed > the > > wrong way and you get a 'dirty bomb' with alot of collateral > damage. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2005 Report Share Posted June 28, 2005 Oh yeah, now I remember those discussions. Chalk it up to brain fog. And also that I wasn't paying a lot of attention at the time, since I wasn't envisioning any HCQ in my future. Sad really, my doc at the time tried to get me to take it when I went to India as a preventative, and I read so much stuff about it causing psychosis, etc., that I refused. That was before I was doing abx therapy, and realized that it's the freakin' bugs' reaction to the drugs that are probably causing all the mental stuff. Oh well, I'll give it a go now that I'm so much wiser. :-) Anyway, thanks for the clarification (and reassurance) on the quinolone/quinoline subject. penny > > > Jim: > > > I did a search for you. > > > You may want to pass this info on to your Dr. > > > > > > I agree with HCQ taken with a fungal, as the alkalizing > properties > > of > > > HCQ on the cell compartment work the same for the 'azoles' as > they > > do > > > for abx. You could kill alot with the CORRECT dosages.. key > words > > > being the CORRECT. DO not assume the normal mono therapy doses > > apply > > > with these two in combo. > > > > > > Tinidazole's main pathway for metabolism and is considered a > > > cyp3A4 substrate (and a minor 2C9 substrate).(see ref 1) > > > > > > CQ (chloroquine)uses cyp3A4 as one of the pathways for it's > > metabolism > > > (reference 2) so most likekly HCQ does too. > > > > > > There's going to be competition for this enzyme, resluting in one > > or > > > the other (drug) to reach higher consentrations in the body... > and > > > since the consentration of HCQ varies enormously between > > individuals - > > > I would be very carefull. > > > > > > I would not assume adverse reactions with this combo to be > > > a 'herx'. It's much more likely a drug-drug interaction. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ref 1 > > > http://www.tindamax.com/Med%20Letter.pdf > > > > > > ref 2 > > > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? > > > > cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12967198 & query_hl=29 > > > > > > Barb > > > PS. > > > I think mixing HCQ with some drugs as 'smart bombs'.. but mixed > > the > > > wrong way and you get a 'dirty bomb' with alot of collateral > > damage. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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