Re: Re: Back to infammation

[Guest guest]

I did a lot of looking into this treatment by Broody and I too have

seen the charts for effectiveness of rifampin. It did not look

encouraging and was only being given to stop resistance, but otherwise

it was not effective. I agree with Tony.,

> Dura

> The mainstay drug for intestinal problems IE crohns, IBS etc is a

> sulpha antibiotic that really is only used in this group of patients.

> They give it in large quantities and it only works in the intestinal

> tract.In australia they had a regime similar to tuberculosis in

> place for crohns but when the rifampin was mentioned I lost

> interest. I hate this drug I prefer streptomycin  because rifampin

> is a pathetic drug designed for easy treatment of TB instead of

> using injectable streptomycin they made that crappy rifampin.Very

> little grows over streptomycin in my plates, yet rifampin is a

> friggin joke.It's possably why we have Multi resistant TB ... It's

> the usuaul spastics trying to make things simpler by dosing once

> daily instead of making it compulsory the patient doses six times a

> day and eradicates his problem. I'm sure not mnany on these forums

> would miss a dose that made them feel great.I'm also sure 99% would

> follow the guidelines on to how to stay well with a long treatemnt

> duration.

> tony

>

>

>

> > >   Hello Dr ****,  I thought you would find it interesting ....I

> > looked up

> > > the drug after reading an account in Saturday's press about a

> child

> > who on

> > > taking the drug experienced an improvement of mega proportions

> with

> > her

> > > arthritis ..I'm always on the lookout for such stories , I look

> to

> > see if

> > > infection & inflammation are involved..Well so it is here.  The

> > drug is

> > > effective against chrohn's , Ms & Ankylosing spondylitis +

> others..

> > They are

> > > all of course infection based diseases [see below ] It is

> claimed

> > that

> > > REMICADE works by blocking  immune system's overproduction of a

> > protein

> > > called TNF-alpha, a primary cause of inflammation. If you read

>

> > s

> > > paper you will find that overproduction of  TNF-alfa is part of

> the

> > process

> > > of the Angiotensin 11 inflammatory influence

> > >

> > > So what we are looking at here is not a so-called auto immune

> > response but

> > > the pathogens ability to induce inflammation to avoid & hide

> from

> > the immune

> > > system .So again thanks be for anti-inflammatory's not

> forgetting

> > the

> > > doctors that prescribe them  ..

> > >

> > >

> > > Shortcut to:

> > http://www.remicade.com/global/understanding/understanding.jsp

> > >

> > > The article conversely tells us that research  in Washington

> > University in

> > > St. Louis  found that Crohn's disease responded to an immune

> > stimulant.

> > > That's not a " U " turn so much as a backward somersault. Current

> > treatment

> > > suppresses the immune system .

> > >  http://aisweb.wustl.edu/alumni/atwu.nsf/crohns

> > >

> > > See also

> > > http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/13/inflammatory_bowel_disease.htm

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > St. Louis Post-DispatchNovember 8, 2002WU researchers have

> developed

> > > controversial Crohn's treatment By Tina Hesman(Reprinted with

> > permission

> > > from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch)Half a million Americans

> structure

> > their

> > > lives around being near a bathroom because of a chronic bowel

> > disease. Now a

> > > controversial new treatment developed at Washington University

> may

> > provide a

> > > better life to Crohn's disease sufferers. Two researchers are

> > uncovering a

> > > possible cause for the lifelong inflammatory bowel disease that

> > afflicts

> > > patients with diarrhea, severe abdominal pain, infections and

> > sometimes

> > > complications that require surgery - in the worst cases even

> > removal of the

> > > large intestine. And they propose to give immune system boosters

> to

> > Crohn's

> > > disease patients - a therapy that some experts liken to treating

> > heart

> > > disease patients with shots of cholesterol. The origins of

> Crohn's

> > disease

> > > are something of a mystery, said Dr. K. Dieckgraefe, a

> > molecular

> > > biologist at Washington University. " It's an idiopathic disease.

> > > 'Idiopathic' is Latin for 'we don't know' " what causes the

> disease,

> > > Dieckgraefe said. Dr. R. Korzenik, a gastroenterologist

> who

> > works

> > > with Dieckgraefe, said the disease seems to have both genetic and

> > > environmental triggers. A person whose identical twin has

> Crohn's

> > disease

> > > has a 50 percent chance of getting the disease. Smoking is a

> strong

> > risk

> > > factor for developing Crohn's disease, and diet and other unknown

> > > environmental factors may trigger the disease in some people

> with a

> > genetic

> > > predisposition, Korzenik said. Most researchers have come to

> think

> > of

> > > Crohn's disease as the result of an immune system working

> overtime.

> > The

> > > immune system launches an assault against the bacteria that live

> in

> > the

> > > intestines, producing swelling of the intestinal lining. But

> > Dieckgraefe and

> > > Korzenik think the problem may actually be a defect in the

> immune

> > system's

> > > first-response team - bacteria-gobbling white blood cells that

> are

> > part of

> > > the innate immune system. The researchers got the idea when they

> > noticed

> > > that children with genetic diseases that disable parts of the

> > immune system

> > > have a high incidence of inflammatory bowel diseases, including

> > Crohn's

> > > disease. About a third of children with glycogen storage disease

> 1B

> > or

> > > chronic granulomatous disease also had Crohn's disease, the

> > researchers

> > > found. About a dozen immunodeficiency diseases also are

> associated

> > with

> > > Crohn's symptoms, Korzenik said. Even more intriguing was the

> > discovery that

> > > children with some of these rare immunological disorders stopped

> > getting

> > > Crohn's disease after 1991, Dieckgraefe said. That was the year

> > that a

> > > medicine called Leukine was introduced to treat patients with

> immune

> > > problems, including those with genetic disorders and

> chemotherapy

> > patients.

> > > The drug, a naturally occurring protein called Granulocyte-

> > Macrophage Colony

> > > Stimulating Factor (GM-CSF), boosts the body's ability to make

> > innate immune

> > > cells. Dieckgraefe and Korzenik proposed that patients with

> Crohn's

> > disease

> > > might have problems dealing with bacteria that manage to

> penetrate

> > the

> > > intestinal lining. Without innate immune cells to dispose of the

> > invaders,

> > > the acquired immune system - including specialized cells such as

> T-

> > cells -

> > > would valiantly try to fend off the wayward bacteria, making the

> > patient

> > > sick in the process. The theory was bolstered by the discovery

> of a

> > gene

> > > that predisposes people to get Crohn's disease. About 20 percent

> of

> > Crohn's

> > > disease sufferers have a defect in the gene called NOD-2 or CARD-

> > 15. The

> > > protein produced from the gene is important for activating cells

> in

> > the

> > > innate immune system, Dieckgraefe said. The idea was roundly

> > rejected in the

> > > scientific community, but the Washington University researchers

> were

> > > convinced they were on to something. They got permission from

> the

> > U.S. Food

> > > and Drug Administration to give the immune-boosting drug to a

> small

> > number

> > > of Crohn's disease patients to see if it is safe. The

> researchers

> > had some

> > > concerns about giving Crohn's disease patients immune

> > stimulators. " Are we

> > > throwing oil on a raging fire? Are we going to make things

> worse? "

> > Korzenik

> > > asked. So the scientists started small, giving patients a low

> dose

> > of the

> > > immune booster. No one got sicker. So the researchers increased

> the

> > doses.

> > > Still, none of the patients got worse. In fact, 12 of the 15

> > patients in the

> > > study did significantly better - dropping 100 points or more on

> a

> > scale that

> > > measures Crohn's disease severity. Eight of the patients went

> into

> > complete

> > > remission after the treatment. Perkowski, 40, a trompe

> l'oeil

> > mural

> > > artist from Oakville, had been sick with Crohn's disease for 20

> > years when

> > > she joined the study. Before the study, her good days - days in

> > which she

> > > had enough energy to do daily activities, her abdominal pain was

> > bearable,

> > > and she didn't have to be near a restroom constantly - came once

> or

> > twice

> > > per week. About two weeks after Perkowski started injecting

> herself

> > with the

> > > immune stimulant, every day started to be a good day, she said.

> She

> > visited

> > > the bathroom only once a day instead of 13 times as she had

> before.

> > She

> > > didn't have to stop on her way to work to find a public

> toilet. " It

> > was

> > > amazing. It was incredible, " Perkowski said. She finally had

> > control of her

> > > life, she said. But then Perkowski reached the end of the eight-

> > week trial.

> > > A month later Crohn's disease was back in control. When her

> doctors

> > gave a

> > > second round of treatment, Perkowski got the upper hand again.

> It

> > was a

> > > feeling she didn't want to give up. " I was like a drug addict

> then.

> > I said,

> > > 'Give me my shot! Give me my shot!' " Perkowski said. Some of the

> > patients in

> > > the study have remained symptom-free for more than a year,

> > Dieckgraefe said.

> > > Others, like Perkowski, relapsed when treatment stopped but got

> > better again

> > > once the medicine was reinstated. Some mild side-effects,

> including

> > bone

> > > pain from growing bone marrow, subsided after a few weeks, the

> > patients

> > > reported. The results of the study, published today in The

> Lancet,

> > are

> > > leading many Crohn's disease researchers to rethink their ideas

> > about what

> > > causes the disorder, the Washington University team said. " I

> think

> > this was

> > > an extremely important study because it opens a whole new

> concept

> > of the

> > > pathogenesis of Crohn's disease, " said Dr. R. Balfour Sartor, a

> > Crohn's

> > > disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel

> > Hill. " This

> > > is a provocative, preliminary study, but it's not ready for

> prime

> > time. "

> > > Sartor and investigators at 30 medical centers around the

> country,

> > including

> > > Washington University, are recruiting Crohn's disease patients to

> > > participate in a larger clinical trial comparing the innate

> immune

> > system

> > > boosters to a placebo. ======== Symptoms and facts Crohn's

> disease

> > is an

> > > inflammatory bowel disease that attacks the large and small

> > intestines.

> > > Symptoms may range from mild to life-threatening and include: *

> > Persistent

> > > diarrhea * Fever and weight loss * Abdominal pain or cramps *

> Blood

> > in the

> > > stool * Skin or eye irritation * Children with the disease may

> have

> > delayed

> > > growth and retarded sexual maturation. * More than half of

> Crohn's

> > disease

> > > patients require at least one surgery to deal with complications

> of

> > the

> > > disease. Source: Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America For

> more

> > > information about clinical trials with Granulocyte-Macrophage

> > Stimulating

> > > Factor (GM-CSF), contact: * Study Coordinator: Arlyn Pittler *

> > Washington

> > > University School of Medicine * 660 S. Euclid Avenue, Box 8124,

> St.

> > Louis,

> > > Mo. 63110 * Phone: 314-362-9093 * Fax: 314-454-5107 Information

> > about other

> > > clinical trials for Crohn's disease can be found on the Internet

> > site of the

> > > Crohn's & Colitis Foundation of America Inc.: www.ccfa.org, or

> by

> > contacting

> > > the local chapter at: * 314-991-0220. * Toll free: 1-800-783-

> 8006

> > Reporter

> > > Tina Hesman; E-mail: thesman@p...; Phone: 314-340-8325Copyright

> > > 2002, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Inc.(To see the St. Louis Post-

> > Dispatch

> > > online, go to http://www.stltoday.com)

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --

> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.

> > > Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date:

> > 11/06/2005

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Has your dad tried ARB's ? Should work better than Remicade ...The full blockade worked like someone waving a magic wand over me...My mega headaches of years standing ceased overnight...that along with constipation that I now know was caused by inflammation....I now take 20to40mg per day & not in response to any symptoms ..Anyway you know the theory ..

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of duramater27Sent: 13 June 2005 22:33infections Subject: [infections] Re: Back to infammation

My dad has Crohn's as of a few years ago and it is being very poorly controlled by a host of medicines. They did try remicade on him, but he had no response (including side effects thankfully). I was doing some research a few months back on the subject because he was miserable and his doctor felt he was "a difficult case" and the many meds were doing little. Only prednisone really helped but they wanted him off of it given all the adverse effects.Anyway, I bumped into a whole section of the literature about the use of antibiotics in Crohn's. The data are definitely equivocal about their efficacy (probably b/c its appropriate in some folks and not in others), but there is a GI guy in Toronto doing some nice research on the use of Abx in this disease. I printed out a number of the abstracts, let my dad consider it (he's willing to try ANYTHING and has), and he brought it with him to the new GI specialist he saw about 2 months ago. The guy was very open to it, started him on cipro, but dad reacted. He switched him over to Flagyl and my dad is doing the best he has in a while (he is still on a host of other drugs as well). Anyway, that's the gig on remicade and the use of Abx on Crohn's for N=1.> Hello Dr ****, I thought you would find it interesting ....I looked up> the drug after reading an account in Saturday's press about a child who on> taking the drug experienced an improvement of mega proportions with her> arthritis ..I'm always on the lookout for such stories , I look to see if> infection & inflammation are involved..Well so it is here. The drug is> effective against chrohn's , Ms & Ankylosing spondylitis + others.. They are> all of course infection based diseases [see below ] It is claimed that> REMICADE works by blocking immune system's overproduction of a protein> called TNF-alpha, a primary cause of inflammation. If you read s> paper you will find that overproduction of TNF-alfa is part of the process> of the Angiotensin 11 inflammatory influence> > So what we are looking at here is not a so-called auto immune response but> the pathogens ability to induce inflammation to avoid & hide from the immune> system .So again thanks be for anti-inflammatory's not forgetting the> doctors that prescribe them ..> > > Shortcut to: http://www.remicade.com/global/understanding/understanding.jsp> > The article conversely tells us that research in Washington University in> St. Louis found that Crohn's disease responded to an immune stimulant.> That's not a "U" turn so much as a backward somersault. Current treatment> suppresses the immune system .> http://aisweb.wustl.edu/alumni/atwu.nsf/crohns> > See also> http://www.mercola.com/2003/sep/13/inflammatory_bowel_disease.htm> > > > > > St. Louis Post-DispatchNovember 8, 2002WU researchers have developed> controversial Crohn's treatment By Tina Hesman(Reprinted with permission> from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch)Half a million Americans structure their> lives around being near a bathroom because of a chronic bowel disease. Now a> controversial new treatment developed at Washington University may provide a> better life to Crohn's disease sufferers. Two researchers are uncovering a> possible cause for the lifelong inflammatory bowel disease that afflicts> patients with diarrhea, severe abdominal pain, infections and sometimes> complications that require surgery - in the worst cases even removal of the> large intestine. And they propose to give immune system boosters to Crohn's> disease patients - a therapy that some experts liken to treating heart> disease patients with shots of cholesterol. The origins of Crohn's disease> are something of a mystery, said Dr. K. Dieckgraefe, a molecular> biologist at Washington University. "It's an idiopathic disease.> 'Idiopathic' is Latin for 'we don't know'" what causes the disease,> Dieckgraefe said. Dr. R. Korzenik, a gastroenterologist who works> with Dieckgraefe, said the disease seems to have both genetic and> environmental triggers. A person whose identical twin has Crohn's disease> has a 50 percent chance of getting the disease. Smoking is a strong risk> factor for developing Crohn's disease, and diet and other unknown> environmental factors may trigger the disease in some people with a genetic> predisposition, Korzenik said. Most researchers have come to think of> Crohn's disease as the result of an immune system working overtime. The> immune system launches an assault against the bacteria that live in the> intestines, producing swelling of the intestinal lining. But Dieckgraefe and> Korzenik think the problem may actually be a defect in the immune system's> first-response team - bacteria-gobbling white blood cells that are part of> the innate immune system. The researchers got the idea when they noticed> that children with genetic diseases that disable parts of the immune system> have a high incidence of inflammatory bowel diseases, including Crohn's> disease. About a third of children with glycogen storage disease 1B or> chronic granulomatous disease also had Crohn's disease, the researchers> found. About a dozen immunodeficiency diseases also are associated with> Crohn's symptoms, Korzenik said. Even more intriguing was the discovery that> children with some of these rare immunological disorders stopped getting> Crohn's disease after 1991, Dieckgraefe said. That was the year that a> medicine called Leukine was introduced to treat patients with immune> problems, including those with genetic disorders and chemotherapy patients.> The drug, a naturally occurring protein called Granulocyte-Macrophage Colony> Stimulating Factor (GM-CSF), boosts the body's ability to make innate immune> cells. Dieckgraefe and Korzenik proposed that patients with Crohn's disease> might have problems dealing with bacteria that manage to penetrate the> intestinal lining. Without innate immune cells to dispose of the invaders,> the acquired immune system - including specialized cells such as T-cells -> would valiantly try to fend off the wayward bacteria, making the patient> sick in the process. The theory was bolstered by the discovery of a gene> that predisposes people to get Crohn's disease. About 20 percent of Crohn's> disease sufferers have a defect in the gene called NOD-2 or CARD-15. The> protein produced from the gene is important for activating cells in the> innate immune system, Dieckgraefe said. The idea was roundly rejected in the> scientific community, but the Washington University researchers were> convinced they were on to something. They got permission from the U.S. Food> and Drug Administration to give the immune-boosting drug to a small number> of Crohn's disease patients to see if it is safe. The researchers had some> concerns about giving Crohn's disease patients immune stimulators. "Are we> throwing oil on a raging fire? Are we going to make things worse?" Korzenik> asked. So the scientists started small, giving patients a low dose of the> immune booster. No one got sicker. So the researchers increased the doses.> Still, none of the patients got worse. In fact, 12 of the 15 patients in the> study did significantly better - dropping 100 points or more on a scale that> measures Crohn's disease severity. Eight of the patients went into complete> remission after the treatment. Perkowski, 40, a trompe l'oeil mural> artist from Oakville, had been sick with Crohn's disease for 20 years when> she joined the study. Before the study, her good days - days in which she> had enough energy to do daily activities, her abdominal pain was bearable,> and she didn't have to be near a restroom constantly - came once or twice> per week. About two weeks after Perkowski started injecting herself with the> immune stimulant, every day started to be a good day, she said. She visited> the bathroom only once a day instead of 13 times as she had before. She> didn't have to stop on her way to work to find a public toilet. "It was> amazing. It was incredible," Perkowski said. She finally had control of her> life, she said. But then Perkowski reached the end of the eight-week trial.> A month later Crohn's disease was back in control. When her doctors gave a> second round of treatment, Perkowski got the upper hand again. It was a> feeling she didn't want to give up. "I was like a drug addict then. I said,> 'Give me my shot! Give me my shot!'" Perkowski said. Some of the patients in> the study have remained symptom-free for more than a year, Dieckgraefe said.> Others, like Perkowski, relapsed when treatment stopped but got better again> once the medicine was reinstated. Some mild side-effects, including bone> pain from growing bone marrow, subsided after a few weeks, the patients> reported. The results of the study, published today in The Lancet, are> leading many Crohn's disease researchers to rethink their ideas about what> causes the disorder, the Washington University team said. "I think this was> an extremely important study because it opens a whole new concept of the> pathogenesis of Crohn's disease," said Dr. R. Balfour Sartor, a Crohn's> disease researcher at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. "This> is a provocative, preliminary study, but it's not ready for prime time."> Sartor and investigators at 30 medical centers around the country, including> Washington University, are recruiting Crohn's disease patients to> participate in a larger clinical trial comparing the innate immune system> boosters to a placebo. ======== Symptoms and facts Crohn's disease is an> inflammatory bowel disease that attacks the large and small intestines.> Symptoms may range from mild to life-threatening and include: * Persistent> diarrhea * Fever and weight loss * Abdominal pain or cramps * Blood in the> stool * Skin or eye irritation * Children with the disease may have delayed> growth and retarded sexual maturation. * More than half of Crohn's disease> patients require at least one surgery to deal with complications of the> disease. Source: Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America For more> information about clinical trials with Granulocyte-Macrophage Stimulating> Factor (GM-CSF), contact: * Study Coordinator: Arlyn Pittler * Washington> University School of Medicine * 660 S. Euclid Avenue, Box 8124, St. Louis,> Mo. 63110 * Phone: 314-362-9093 * Fax: 314-454-5107 Information about other> clinical trials for Crohn's disease can be found on the Internet site of the> Crohn's & Colitis Foundation of America Inc.: www.ccfa.org, or by contacting> the local chapter at: * 314-991-0220. * Toll free: 1-800-783-8006 Reporter> Tina Hesman; E-mail: thesman@p...; Phone: 314-340-8325Copyright> 2002, St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Inc.(To see the St. Louis Post-Dispatch> online, go to http://www.stltoday.com)> > > > > > > > --> No virus found in this outgoing message.> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.9 - Release Date: 11/06/2005