Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

[Guest guest]

Hi d.,

I have tried fish oil supplements on numerous occasions, the most recent

being 2003 when I took quite a long course of the Eye Q pharmaceutical

grade fish oil being used in a study of ME/acetylcholine here in the UK.

I just felt increasingly grottier on it with almost constant headaches.

If I take other cold pressed oils eg Flax I can also feel rather

nauseous. I have no idea why I react to something which a lot of other

pwc's seem to find effective, but your article might,I suppose, go some

way to addressing this.

Rosie

Confusing article here. What do you think?

Fish oils and the immune system

OXFORD, UNITED KINGDOM. Animal studies have shown that

an increase in fat intake can decrease the number of natural

killer (NK) cells found in the blood and spleen. NK cells are an

integral part of the natural immune response to virus infections

and certain types of cancer. Researchers at Oxford University

now report that fish oil significantly decreases NK cell activity in

healthy human subjects.

There are at least a dozen studies that show a clear protective

effect of fish or fish oil against breast, colon, and prostate

cancer.

Thies, , et al. Dietary supplementation with

eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6

polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in

healthy subjects aged >55 years. American Journal of Clinical

Nutrition, Vol. 73, March 2001, pp. 539-4

How could something that LOWERS NK activity -- integral to

immune function -- protect against certain cancers???

And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

have low NK cell activity???

d.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

Well, first of all,one study does not an eternal truth make. Secondly, this

study was performed only on healthy subjects over the age of fifty five. We can

draw no useful conclusions from this information except that which we see so

often: " deserves further study "

PubMed

PubMed Citation

Articles by Thies, F.

Articles by Calder, P. C

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 73, No. 3, 539-548, March 2001

© 2001 American Society for Clinical Nutrition

Original Research Communication

Dietary supplementation with eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other

long-chain n-3 or n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell

activity in healthy subjects aged >55 y1,2,3

Thies, Gerhard Nebe-von-Caron, R , Parveen Yaqoob, A

Newsholme and Philip C Calder

1 From the Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford, Oxford, United

Kingdom; Unilever Research Colworth Laboratory, Sharnbrook, United Kingdom; The

Hugh Sinclair Unit of Human Nutrition, Department of Food Science and

Technology, University of Reading, Reading, United Kingdom; and The Institute of

Human Nutrition, University of Southampton, Southampton, United Kingdom.

Background: Animal studies showed that dietary flaxseed oil [rich in the n-3

polyunsaturated fatty acid -linolenic acid (ALA)], evening primrose oil [rich in

the n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid -linolenic acid (GLA)], and fish oil [rich in

the long-chain n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and

docosahexaenoic acid (DHA)] can decrease natural killer (NK) cell activity.

There have been no studies of the effect on NK cell activity of adding these

oils to the diet of humans.

Objective: Our objective was to determine the effect of dietary supplementation

with oil blends rich in ALA, GLA, arachidonic acid (AA), DHA, or EPA plus DHA

(fish oil) on the NK cell activity of human peripheral blood mononuclear cells.

Design: A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, parallel study was

conducted. Healthy subjects aged 55-75 y consumed 9 capsules/d for 12 wk; the

capsules contained placebo oil (an 80:20 mix of palm and sunflower seed oils) or

blends of placebo oil and oils rich in ALA, GLA, AA, DHA, or EPA plus DHA.

Subjects in these groups consumed 2 g ALA, 770 mg GLA, 680 mg AA, 720 mg DHA, or

1 g EPA plus DHA (720 mg EPA + 280 mg DHA) daily, respectively. Total fat intake

from the capsules was 4 g/d.

Results: The fatty acid composition of plasma phospholipids changed

significantly in the GLA, AA, DHA, and fish oil groups. NK cell activity was not

significantly affected by the placebo, ALA, GLA, AA, or DHA treatment. Fish oil

caused a significant reduction (mean decline: 48%) in NK cell activity that was

fully reversed by 4 wk after supplementation had ceased.

Conclusion: A moderate amount of EPA but not of other n-6 or n-3 polyunsaturated

fatty acids can decrease NK cell activity in healthy subjects.

Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

Confusing article here. What do you think?

Fish oils and the immune system

OXFORD, UNITED KINGDOM. Animal studies have shown that

an increase in fat intake can decrease the number of natural

killer (NK) cells found in the blood and spleen. NK cells are an

integral part of the natural immune response to virus infections

and certain types of cancer. Researchers at Oxford University

now report that fish oil significantly decreases NK cell activity in

healthy human subjects.

There are at least a dozen studies that show a clear protective

effect of fish or fish oil against breast, colon, and prostate

cancer.

Thies, , et al. Dietary supplementation with

eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6

polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in

healthy subjects aged >55 years. American Journal of Clinical

Nutrition, Vol. 73, March 2001, pp. 539-4

How could something that LOWERS NK activity -- integral to

immune function -- protect against certain cancers???

And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

have low NK cell activity???

d.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi Rosie:

I've also heard that the fish oils are supposed to be good for you but I also

get nauseous when I take them. I try to take the flax seed oils after I've

eaten. I don't notice any difference but that could be because I just can't hack

taking it all of the time.

Natasha

RE: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

Hi d.,

I have tried fish oil supplements on numerous occasions, the most recent

being 2003 when I took quite a long course of the Eye Q pharmaceutical

grade fish oil being used in a study of ME/acetylcholine here in the UK.

I just felt increasingly grottier on it with almost constant headaches.

If I take other cold pressed oils eg Flax I can also feel rather

nauseous. I have no idea why I react to something which a lot of other

pwc's seem to find effective, but your article might,I suppose, go some

way to addressing this.

Rosie

Confusing article here. What do you think?

Fish oils and the immune system

OXFORD, UNITED KINGDOM. Animal studies have shown that

an increase in fat intake can decrease the number of natural

killer (NK) cells found in the blood and spleen. NK cells are an

integral part of the natural immune response to virus infections

and certain types of cancer. Researchers at Oxford University

now report that fish oil significantly decreases NK cell activity in

healthy human subjects.

There are at least a dozen studies that show a clear protective

effect of fish or fish oil against breast, colon, and prostate

cancer.

Thies, , et al. Dietary supplementation with

eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6

polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in

healthy subjects aged >55 years. American Journal of Clinical

Nutrition, Vol. 73, March 2001, pp. 539-4

How could something that LOWERS NK activity -- integral to

immune function -- protect against certain cancers???

And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

have low NK cell activity???

d.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

I find that I am better off taking anything that is likely to upset my stomach

right before I eat. Having food on top of the offender seems to help.

Adrienne

RE: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

Hi d.,

I have tried fish oil supplements on numerous occasions, the most recent

being 2003 when I took quite a long course of the Eye Q pharmaceutical

grade fish oil being used in a study of ME/acetylcholine here in the UK.

I just felt increasingly grottier on it with almost constant headaches.

If I take other cold pressed oils eg Flax I can also feel rather

nauseous. I have no idea why I react to something which a lot of other

pwc's seem to find effective, but your article might,I suppose, go some

way to addressing this.

Rosie

Confusing article here. What do you think?

Fish oils and the immune system

OXFORD, UNITED KINGDOM. Animal studies have shown that

an increase in fat intake can decrease the number of natural

killer (NK) cells found in the blood and spleen. NK cells are an

integral part of the natural immune response to virus infections

and certain types of cancer. Researchers at Oxford University

now report that fish oil significantly decreases NK cell activity in

healthy human subjects.

There are at least a dozen studies that show a clear protective

effect of fish or fish oil against breast, colon, and prostate

cancer.

Thies, , et al. Dietary supplementation with

eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6

polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in

healthy subjects aged >55 years. American Journal of Clinical

Nutrition, Vol. 73, March 2001, pp. 539-4

How could something that LOWERS NK activity -- integral to

immune function -- protect against certain cancers???

And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

have low NK cell activity???

d.

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with

each other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any

treatment discussed here, please consult your doctor.

[Guest guest]

> And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

> have low NK cell activity???

Good question. All I know is, it's given me significant improvement

since about my third day on cod liver oil. The plain (which I

accidentally bought *alot* of recently) doesn't go down as pleasantly

as the lemon-flavored. But my body feels smoother, less jangly, on

its 1-2 tbls a day. Quite noticeable. I started it over 2 years ago

and had no adverse effects - except the icky face with the taste of

this unflavored stuff.

I've never had tests for NK cell activity.

-Lynn

[Guest guest]

I have been taking fish oil for over a year now, having realised flax

seed oil was not having the desired effect. It has helped me.

There are no signs of lowered NK activity as far as my ressistance

goes, not had NK levels tested either. My protocol is broad spectrum so

hopefully even if there is a slight loss of NK activity it would appear

it is more than compensated for by everything else I am doing.

Cheers, Tansy

> > And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

> > have low NK cell activity???

>

> Good question. All I know is, it's given me significant improvement

> since about my third day on cod liver oil. The plain (which I

> accidentally bought *alot* of recently) doesn't go down as pleasantly

> as the lemon-flavored. But my body feels smoother, less jangly, on

> its 1-2 tbls a day. Quite noticeable. I started it over 2 years ago

> and had no adverse effects - except the icky face with the taste of

> this unflavored stuff.

>

> I've never had tests for NK cell activity.

>

> -Lynn

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I e-mailed Dr. Les Simpson, the New Zealand rheologist who is an expert in

abnormal blood flow in M. E. and who recommends Efamol evening Primrose oil or

salmon oil to correct the abnormally shaped red blood cells in M. E. in order to

normalize capillary flow, asking him to comment on the abstract that was posted

on this list regarding fish oil. Here is Dr. Simpson's response:

Dear ,

A comment as requested !

What the abstract showed (to me) was that a bunch of amateurs were exploring

a new field without understanding the basics - first.

1. alphalinolenic acid is the smallest of the n-3 fatty acids and must be

elongated to eicosapentaenoic acid before it becomes effective - and this

requires a functional delta-6-desaturase enzyme. D6D is usually

dysfunctional in chronic disorders and in the elderly.

2. cis-linolenic acid via D6D becomes gammalinolenic acid which via D5D

becomes dihomogammalinolenic acid which is stored in the membranes of cells

and platelets. In humans, when the DHGLA is released the major product is

prostaglandin E1, and the minor product is arachidonic acid - the precursor

to the series 2 prostaglandins. These cause red cell stiffening.

3.The age group studied would have various changes related to the aging

process and I am at a loss to understand this selection. The amount of

oil taken in would be less than that needed for therapeutic use, and the

effects of such oils on red cells and blood flow have been reported on many

occasions.

SO - because I am unable to see from where they were coming - and the

mix seems to imply they may not know that either - I think the outcome is

probably nonsense !

With best wishes,

Les.

Du Pre

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/soareagle/index.html

" By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

Re: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

> And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

> have low NK cell activity???

[Guest guest]

Good job, ! I thought there was something fishy abt that study! Thank God

for intuition!

Adrienne

Re: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

Hello,

I e-mailed Dr. Les Simpson, the New Zealand rheologist who is an expert in

abnormal blood flow in M. E. and who recommends Efamol evening Primrose oil or

salmon oil to correct the abnormally shaped red blood cells in M. E. in order

to

normalize capillary flow, asking him to comment on the abstract that was

posted

on this list regarding fish oil. Here is Dr. Simpson's response:

Dear ,

A comment as requested !

What the abstract showed (to me) was that a bunch of amateurs were exploring

a new field without understanding the basics - first.

1. alphalinolenic acid is the smallest of the n-3 fatty acids and must be

elongated to eicosapentaenoic acid before it becomes effective - and this

requires a functional delta-6-desaturase enzyme. D6D is usually

dysfunctional in chronic disorders and in the elderly.

2. cis-linolenic acid via D6D becomes gammalinolenic acid which via D5D

becomes dihomogammalinolenic acid which is stored in the membranes of cells

and platelets. In humans, when the DHGLA is released the major product is

prostaglandin E1, and the minor product is arachidonic acid - the precursor

to the series 2 prostaglandins. These cause red cell stiffening.

3.The age group studied would have various changes related to the aging

process and I am at a loss to understand this selection. The amount of

oil taken in would be less than that needed for therapeutic use, and the

effects of such oils on red cells and blood flow have been reported on many

occasions.

SO - because I am unable to see from where they were coming - and the

mix seems to imply they may not know that either - I think the outcome is

probably nonsense !

With best wishes,

Les.

Du Pre

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/soareagle/index.html

" By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

Re: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

> And should PWC's be taking fish oil if we are noted in general to

> have low NK cell activity???

This list is intended for patients to share personal experiences with each

other, not to give medical advice. If you are interested in any treatment

discussed here, please consult your doctor.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I thought some might be interested in these comments by Les Simpson,

from the experimental list. Du Pre gave me permission to repost

here.

Sue ,

Upstate New York

Message: 1

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:56:28 -0700

From: <isaiah40@...>

Subject: Re: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

Hello,

I e-mailed Dr. Les Simpson, the New Zealand rheologist who is an expert

in

abnormal blood flow in M. E. and who recommends Efamol evening Primrose

oil or

salmon oil to correct the abnormally shaped red blood cells in M. E. in

order to

normalize capillary flow, asking him to comment on the abstract that

was posted

on this list regarding fish oil. Here is Dr. Simpson's response:

Dear ,

A comment as requested !

What the abstract showed (to me) was that a bunch of amateurs were

exploring

a new field without understanding the basics - first.

1. alphalinolenic acid is the smallest of the n-3 fatty acids and must

be

elongated to eicosapentaenoic acid before it becomes effective - and

this

requires a functional delta-6-desaturase enzyme. D6D is usually

dysfunctional in chronic disorders and in the elderly.

2. cis-linolenic acid via D6D becomes gammalinolenic acid which via D5D

becomes dihomogammalinolenic acid which is stored in the membranes of

cells

and platelets. In humans, when the DHGLA is released the major product

is

prostaglandin E1, and the minor product is arachidonic acid - the

precursor

to the series 2 prostaglandins. These cause red cell stiffening.

3.The age group studied would have various changes related to the aging

process and I am at a loss to understand this selection. The amount of

oil taken in would be less than that needed for therapeutic use, and the

effects of such oils on red cells and blood flow have been reported on

many

occasions.

SO - because I am unable to see from where they were coming - and the

mix seems to imply they may not know that either - I think the outcome

is

probably nonsense !

With best wishes,

Les.

Du Pre

Website: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/soareagle/index.html

" By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes

[Guest guest]

Thanks for posting this Sue. Here's what I don't quite

understand. The doctor is treating PWC's with Efamol (which I

believe(?) is a combination of fish oils and some n-6 oils?),

helping normalize blood flow, but then says... " this

requires a functional delta-6-desaturase enzyme. D6D is usually

dysfunctional in chronic disorders and in the elderly. "

So does he believe that in some PWC's, this D6D enzyme is

functional, and in others, it's dysfunctional?

And -- the usual question -- is there a test for this?

Thanks

Dan

> Hi,

>

> I thought some might be interested in these comments by Les

Simpson,

> from the experimental list. Du Pre gave me permission

to repost

> here.

>

> Sue ,

> Upstate New York

>

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2005 17:56:28 -0700

> From: <isaiah40@s...>

> Subject: Re: Fish Oil (EPA) Lowers NK cell activity?

>

> Hello,

> I e-mailed Dr. Les Simpson, the New Zealand rheologist who

is an expert

> in

> abnormal blood flow in M. E. and who recommends Efamol

evening Primrose

> oil or

> salmon oil to correct the abnormally shaped red blood cells in

M. E. in

> order to

> normalize capillary flow, asking him to comment on the

abstract that

> was posted

> on this list regarding fish oil. Here is Dr. Simpson's response:

>

> Dear ,

> A comment as requested !

> What the abstract showed (to me) was that a bunch of

amateurs were

> exploring

> a new field without understanding the basics - first.

> 1. alphalinolenic acid is the smallest of the n-3 fatty acids and

must

> be

> elongated to eicosapentaenoic acid before it becomes

effective - and

> this

> requires a functional delta-6-desaturase enzyme. D6D is

usually

> dysfunctional in chronic disorders and in the elderly.

> 2. cis-linolenic acid via D6D becomes gammalinolenic acid

which via D5D

> becomes dihomogammalinolenic acid which is stored in the

membranes of

> cells

> and platelets. In humans, when the DHGLA is released the

major product

> is

> prostaglandin E1, and the minor product is arachidonic acid -

the

> precursor

> to the series 2 prostaglandins. These cause red cell stiffening.

> 3.The age group studied would have various changes related

to the aging

> process and I am at a loss to understand this selection. The

amount of

> oil taken in would be less than that needed for therapeutic use,

and the

> effects of such oils on red cells and blood flow have been

reported on

> many

> occasions.

> SO - because I am unable to see from where they were

coming - and the

> mix seems to imply they may not know that either - I think the

outcome

> is

> probably nonsense !

> With best wishes,

> Les.

>

> Du Pre

> Website: http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/soareagle/index.html

> " By words the mind is winged. " Aristophanes