Re: So what started 4S in us all?

[Guest guest]

This is interesting. I'm not up on back posts yet, so this is the first I'm

reading of strep.

I have a history with recurrent strep -- for about a year and a half, I had

strep tonsilitis as

soon as it was possible to be reinfected. I missed about 30 days of second grade

due to

this. At the end of the school year my tonsils were taken out, and I didn't have

another

sore throat for more than 10 years.

I started having problems with eating noises, etc., about three years later, at

least to the

best of my recollection.

>

> Hi

>

> I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

> in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

> everything in-between.

>

> So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

>

> Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

> and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

>

> Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

> suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

> then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> children would bring on 4S.

>

> I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

> altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

> I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

> getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

>

> Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

> honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

>

> It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

> can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

>

> The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

> most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

> that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

> were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

> constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

> they were taken out)

>

> So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> things through because it cant cope with the workload.

>

> And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

> for some reason )

>

> I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

> lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

> the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

> what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

> you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

>

> With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

> With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

>

> Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

> over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

> opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

> fairly rapidly. "

>

> Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

>

> I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

> with 4S.

>

> Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

> because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> cracks, lock doors etc?

>

[Guest guest]

What Marsha means by physical vs psychological is that it's probably neurological which is a physical problem not a psychological one. I was confused about that too. I thought if it's a malfunction in the brain, neurological, then that meant it was psychological. Marsha feels that in 4s sufferers, there is possibly a problem with the brain misinterpreting the response to the soft sounds and invoking rage and the urge to flee, etc.

Psychological would stem from some sort of trauma that has caused you to subconsciously have a reaction to the sounds. For instance, if you were constantly abused as a child while the abuser was munching on food, or chewing gum. Your mind would associate these noises with the trauma.

So, it seems like it might be a neurological problem, although psychological problems come in secondary to the original problem, because sufferers have to find ways to cope, and are ashamed or berated by friends and family members. Also, they are constantly on edge in their environment, always aware of the noises going on around them. And many become reclusive. These all definitely affect them psychologically.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of webintellectSent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:15 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: So what started 4S in us all?

HiI have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and everything in-between.So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that. Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism, then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some children would bring on 4S. I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal. I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be honest, but thought i would throw it out there.It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc) most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since they were taken out)So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets things through because it cant cope with the workload.And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell for some reason )I know Marsha believes it originates from a Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in "Its all in the mind, just get over it" Thats not what i mean by Psychological, what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etcMarsha wrote this in a very recent post."Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance fairly rapidly."Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha ) with 4S.Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for the explanation Kathy, that kind of makes sense.

But what about Autism

and ADD/ADHD, they must be put in the same bracket, as they are not associated

with trauma. Are they neurological, which is a

physical problem, not a psychological one?

Now I am confused, I know i did not ask

for 4S as in through trauma or stress, so if you just end up with this

unfortunate syndrome it’s classed as neurological? That makes sense but unfortunately

does not give much hope for a cure unless you fancy taking addictive stimulant

drugs.

But if there are ‘prescription’ drugs out

there for ADD/ADHD and Autism why not use the same for 4S?

Seriously though does Ritalin, Dexedine, “Crystal

Meth” or even Cocaine have an effect on 4S suffers? They all seem to be subscribed

to people with ADD and Autism.

What makes these “Street Drugs” work for

them?

Except from a website on ADD:

A research report in the Archives of General Psychiatry states,

" Cocaine, which is one of the most reinforcing and addicting of the abused

drugs, has pharmacological actions that are very similar to those of

methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta), which is now the most commonly prescribed

psychotropic medicine for children in the U.S. "

What’s going on in the World! I would rather take nothing and buy some

boss headphones!

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of Kathy Howe

Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006

10:49 PM

To:

Soundsensitivity

Subject: RE: So

what started 4S in us all?

What Marsha means by

physical vs psychological is that it's probably neurological which is a

physical problem not a psychological one. I was confused about that

too. I thought if it's a malfunction in the brain, neurological, then

that meant it was psychological. Marsha feels that in 4s sufferers, there

is possibly a problem with the brain misinterpreting the response to the soft

sounds and invoking rage and the urge to flee, etc.

Psychological would stem

from some sort of trauma that has caused you to subconsciously have a reaction

to the sounds. For instance, if you were constantly abused as a child

while the abuser was munching on food, or chewing gum. Your mind would

associate these noises with the trauma.

So, it seems like it

might be a neurological problem, although psychological problems come in

secondary to the original problem, because sufferers have to find ways to cope,

and are ashamed or berated by friends and family members. Also, they are

constantly on edge in their environment, always aware of the noises going on

around them. And many become reclusive. These all definitely affect

them psychologically.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

-----Original

Message-----

From:

Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of webintellect

Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006

9:15 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: So

what started 4S in us all?

Hi

I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

everything in-between.

So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

children would bring on 4S.

I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

they were taken out)

So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

things through because it cant cope with the workload.

And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

for some reason )

I know Marsha believes it originates from a

Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

" Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

fairly rapidly. "

Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

with 4S.

Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

Yes, ADD and autism are physical problems with the brain, not psychological. We don't know for sure if SSS is neurological or possibly some strange physical malady such as teeth causing pressure on a nerve associated with the ear...who knows??? But what most of us I think believe is that it definitely is not psychological. The sufferers can't possibly all have a psychological reaction that just coincidentally occurs at age 8 and has the same progression of symptoms (or approximate progression).

As far as drugs are concerned, so far no one seems to have taken anything that relieves the SSS problem. And I know someone said they did take meds for ADD.

Someone on the site had asked if anyone had taken any OCD meds for SSS. I don't remember anyone responding that they had. I have had several people tell me it sounds like an OCD. I would be interested to know if anyone has taken them. My daughter is going through neurofeedback right now, and I am considering trying an OCD drug that the doctor said may help. However, I would really like any info about sufferers who have tried them.

I really still feel that a strep virus might have caused this--damage to the basal ganglia and a kind of "OCD." Although not a classic OCD, SSS is an obsession and extreme adversion to certain sounds.

Who knows...but I'd appreciate any feedback about the drugs.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of Neil HolmesSent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 9:41 AMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

Thanks for the explanation Kathy, that kind of makes sense.

But what about Autism and ADD/ADHD, they must be put in the same bracket, as they are not associated with trauma. Are they neurological, which is a physical problem, not a psychological one?

Now I am confused, I know i did not ask for 4S as in through trauma or stress, so if you just end up with this unfortunate syndrome it's classed as neurological? That makes sense but unfortunately does not give much hope for a cure unless you fancy taking addictive stimulant drugs.

But if there are 'prescription' drugs out there for ADD/ADHD and Autism why not use the same for 4S?

Seriously though does Ritalin, Dexedine, "Crystal Meth" or even Cocaine have an effect on 4S suffers? They all seem to be subscribed to people with ADD and Autism.

What makes these "Street Drugs" work for them?

Except from a website on ADD:

A research report in the Archives of General Psychiatry states, "Cocaine, which is one of the most reinforcing and addicting of the abused drugs, has pharmacological actions that are very similar to those of methylphenidate (Ritalin, Concerta), which is now the most commonly prescribed psychotropic medicine for children in the U.S."

What's going on in the World! I would rather take nothing and buy some boss headphones!

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of Kathy HoweSent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:49 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

What Marsha means by physical vs psychological is that it's probably neurological which is a physical problem not a psychological one. I was confused about that too. I thought if it's a malfunction in the brain, neurological, then that meant it was psychological. Marsha feels that in 4s sufferers, there is possibly a problem with the brain misinterpreting the response to the soft sounds and invoking rage and the urge to flee, etc.

Psychological would stem from some sort of trauma that has caused you to subconsciously have a reaction to the sounds. For instance, if you were constantly abused as a child while the abuser was munching on food, or chewing gum. Your mind would associate these noises with the trauma.

So, it seems like it might be a neurological problem, although psychological problems come in secondary to the original problem, because sufferers have to find ways to cope, and are ashamed or berated by friends and family members. Also, they are constantly on edge in their environment, always aware of the noises going on around them. And many become reclusive. These all definitely affect them psychologically.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

-----Original Message-----From: Soundsensitivity [mailto:Soundsensitivity ]On Behalf Of webintellectSent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 9:15 PMTo: Soundsensitivity Subject: So what started 4S in us all?

HiI have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and everything in-between.So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that. Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism, then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some children would bring on 4S. I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal. I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be honest, but thought i would throw it out there.It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc) most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since they were taken out)So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets things through because it cant cope with the workload.And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell for some reason )I know Marsha believes it originates from a Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in "Its all in the mind, just get over it" Thats not what i mean by Psychological, what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etcMarsha wrote this in a very recent post."Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance fairly rapidly."Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha ) with 4S.Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

Hi -

I too have done my " why " and " how " searching about this for a long

time. I think I have a much different set of circumstances than most

people here so it's been easier for me as I always thought my 4S was

psychologically based but I do wonder about the majority and then

wonder about myself again as we all must fit into the physiological

group since not everyone has been through a hell that would cause

psychological injury. (Hope I was clear there - sorry for the

contorted expression of difficult thought.)

I was badly abused for the first 16 years of my life so I always

kinda' based myself on a Pavlov's dogs basis. The sounds of

breathing, footsteps, screaming, throat clearing, the " esses " when

there are large groups talking and no one conversation can be

distinguished, silverware, loud bass, any mouth noises at all etc

etc . . . well you can pretty much draw the connections. I always

figured I was hard-wired by the trauma (stimulus and subsequent

response) and can connect specific traumatic events to specific

triggers.

Traditional psychotherapy (Talk-Therapy) only reduces the sting of

the past - it does not address the physical issue: and there IS one.

I too find it fascinating that people without trauma would experience

rage and anxiety. May I ask if there is terror in the mix for you?

How about any sadness?

I also always wondered if there is a genetic link - I know the father

had 4S because a lot of the beatings were from making mouth noises

and from stored up rage - but children are sponges and perhaps I

learned it . . .

I do agree that it may feel like a bit of autism because of the

inability to connect but there is such a broad spectrum with any

label, and I do not know what autism feels like!

I had all the usual immunizations (I'm 47 yrs old) - 4S onset was at

approx 7 yrs old. I had measles twice and chicken pox twice: once

each in childhood and once each in my early 20's. Was I

underimmunized? Did my body not keep the defenses it supposedly

created from the first go-'round? I still have my tonsils. I was

chronically anemic as a child but that also has a " real " reason.

I really appreciate this discussion and am interested in knowing what

we all have in common.

Do you remember your childhood?

Thank you for being here. -Adah

>

> Hi

>

> I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started

4S

> in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

> everything in-between.

>

> So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while

ago.

>

> Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like

Autism

> and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

>

> Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if

studies

> suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on

Autism,

> then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> children would bring on 4S.

>

> I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

> altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to

normal.

> I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

> getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

>

> Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to

be

> honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

>

> It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and

diseases

> can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

>

> The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S

etc)

> most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

> that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said

they

> were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it

was

> constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill

since

> they were taken out)

>

> So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> things through because it cant cope with the workload.

>

> And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

> for some reason )

>

> I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

> lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all

in

> the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

> what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain

that

> you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

>

> With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

> With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes

etc

>

> Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain

improvement

> over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

> opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound

tolerance

> fairly rapidly. "

>

> Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

>

> I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

> with 4S.

>

> Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological

illness

> because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> cracks, lock doors etc?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy -

Thank you for clearing up a lot of the definitions and helping in

pointing out the obvious " physicalness " of 4S. I have been taking

minimal doses of anti-anxiety drugs and depression meds for approx 15

years. Seems to help but perhaps it's for the psycho in me! I am

also undergoing neurofeedback (an EEGInternational.com practioner)

and we have seen a real decrease in my hypervigilance and my amygdala

has quieted down a lot. There is a new protocol for the left brain

alone using a very low frequency that looks promising. I am just

starting it. I have also been working intently with EFT now for

approx 2 months. (I dabbled in it before but now I have some

excellent guidance and it's going much better.) It's an offshoot of

TFT - really the same thing but without muscle testing, so people can

do it by themselves without a practitioner (once they get started).

The premise behind it is that all " dis-ease " is a result from an

interuption in energy flow in the body. By tapping on specific

accupressure points and using set-up statements to address issues the

energy can move. I've seen a marked decrease in my response to some

triggers already (especially talking and children screaming). The

website is emofree.com if you are interested. I will caution you

that there are some " one-minute wonders " and there are people there

who are over-excited about it . . .

Thank you big time -Adah

>

> Yes, ADD and autism are physical problems with the brain, not

psychological.

> We don't know for sure if SSS is neurological or possibly some

strange

> physical malady such as teeth causing pressure on a nerve

associated with

> the ear...who knows??? But what most of us I think believe is that

it

> definitely is not psychological. The sufferers can't possibly all

have a

> psychological reaction that just coincidentally occurs at age 8 and

has the

> same progression of symptoms (or approximate progression).

>

> As far as drugs are concerned, so far no one seems to have taken

anything

> that relieves the SSS problem. And I know someone said they did

take meds

> for ADD.

>

> Someone on the site had asked if anyone had taken any OCD meds for

SSS. I

> don't remember anyone responding that they had. I have had several

people

> tell me it sounds like an OCD. I would be interested to know if

anyone has

> taken them. My daughter is going through neurofeedback right now,

and I am

> considering trying an OCD drug that the doctor said may help.

However, I

> would really like any info about sufferers who have tried them.

>

> I really still feel that a strep virus might have caused this--

damage to the

> basal ganglia and a kind of " OCD. " Although not a classic OCD, SSS

is an

> obsession and extreme adversion to certain sounds.

>

> Who knows...but I'd appreciate any feedback about the drugs.

>

> Thanks,

> Kathy Howe

>

> So what started 4S in us all?

>

>

> Hi

>

> I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what

started 4S

> in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

> everything in-between.

>

> So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a

while ago.

>

> Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like

Autism

> and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

>

> Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if

studies

> suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on

Autism,

> then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> children would bring on 4S.

>

> I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

> altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to

normal.

> I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good

as

> getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

>

> Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is

to be

> honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

>

> It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and

diseases

> can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

>

> The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S

etc)

> most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can

do

> that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said

they

> were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it

was

> constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill

since

> they were taken out)

>

> So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> things through because it cant cope with the workload.

>

> And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to

spell

> for some reason )

>

> I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

> lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all

in

> the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by

Psychological,

> what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain

that

> you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

>

> With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

> With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes

etc

>

> Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain

improvement

> over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them

as

> opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound

tolerance

> fairly rapidly. "

>

> Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

>

> I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry

Marsha )

> with 4S.

>

> Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological

illness

> because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> cracks, lock doors etc?

>

[Guest guest]

I did post a thread on this idea some time ago, after reading a book by Dr

Robin Pauc. He sees ADD, ADHD, Tourette's, dyslexia, dispraxia and OCD as

symptoms of something else rather than separate illnesses in themselves. My

post is at:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/Soundsensitivity/message/1864

I was expecting quite a debate about it, but nothing came up. I think his

theory is certainly worth further investigation.

>

>Reply-To: Soundsensitivity

>To: <Soundsensitivity >

>Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

>Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:51:39 -0400

>

>Yes, ADD and autism are physical problems with the brain, not

>psychological.

>We don't know for sure if SSS is neurological or possibly some strange

>physical malady such as teeth causing pressure on a nerve associated with

>the ear...who knows??? But what most of us I think believe is that it

>definitely is not psychological. The sufferers can't possibly all have a

>psychological reaction that just coincidentally occurs at age 8 and has the

>same progression of symptoms (or approximate progression).

>

>As far as drugs are concerned, so far no one seems to have taken anything

>that relieves the SSS problem. And I know someone said they did take meds

>for ADD.

>

>Someone on the site had asked if anyone had taken any OCD meds for SSS. I

>don't remember anyone responding that they had. I have had several people

>tell me it sounds like an OCD. I would be interested to know if anyone has

>taken them. My daughter is going through neurofeedback right now, and I am

>considering trying an OCD drug that the doctor said may help. However, I

>would really like any info about sufferers who have tried them.

>

>I really still feel that a strep virus might have caused this--damage to

>the

>basal ganglia and a kind of " OCD. " Although not a classic OCD, SSS is an

>obsession and extreme adversion to certain sounds.

>

>Who knows...but I'd appreciate any feedback about the drugs.

>

>Thanks,

>Kathy Howe

>

> So what started 4S in us all?

>

>

> Hi

>

> I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

> in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

> everything in-between.

>

> So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

>

> Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

> and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

>

> Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

> suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

> then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> children would bring on 4S.

>

> I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

> altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

> I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

> getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

>

> Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

> honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

>

> It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

> can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

>

> The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

> most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

> that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

> were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

> constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

> they were taken out)

>

> So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> things through because it cant cope with the workload.

>

> And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

> for some reason )

>

> I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

> lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

> the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

> what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

> you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

>

> With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

> With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

>

> Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

> over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

> opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

> fairly rapidly. "

>

> Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

>

> I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

> with 4S.

>

> Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

> because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> cracks, lock doors etc?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

i've recently taken effexor and klonopin and valium. All three help to varying

extents.

Mathew Pankratz

________________________________

From: Soundsensitivity on behalf of Kathy Howe

Sent: Thu 7/20/2006 10:51 AM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

Yes, ADD and autism are physical problems with the brain, not psychological. We

don't know for sure if SSS is neurological or possibly some strange physical

malady such as teeth causing pressure on a nerve associated with the ear...who

knows??? But what most of us I think believe is that it definitely is not

psychological. The sufferers can't possibly all have a psychological reaction

that just coincidentally occurs at age 8 and has the same progression of

symptoms (or approximate progression).

As far as drugs are concerned, so far no one seems to have taken anything that

relieves the SSS problem. And I know someone said they did take meds for ADD.

Someone on the site had asked if anyone had taken any OCD meds for SSS. I don't

remember anyone responding that they had. I have had several people tell me it

sounds like an OCD. I would be interested to know if anyone has taken them. My

daughter is going through neurofeedback right now, and I am considering trying

an OCD drug that the doctor said may help. However, I would really like any

info about sufferers who have tried them.

I really still feel that a strep virus might have caused this--damage to the

basal ganglia and a kind of " OCD. " Although not a classic OCD, SSS is an

obsession and extreme adversion to certain sounds.

Who knows...but I'd appreciate any feedback about the drugs.

Thanks,

Kathy Howe

So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

everything in-between.

So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

children would bring on 4S.

I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

they were taken out)

So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

things through because it cant cope with the workload.

And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

for some reason )

I know Marsha believes it originates from a

Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

" Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

fairly rapidly. "

Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

with 4S.

Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

its doubtful that ritalin or the amphetamines would have any benefit. I've

taken both for ADHD and only had a worsening of my symptoms. If there's a

problem of hypervigilance, these'd only increase the problem. The 'downer' type

medications that relieve anxiety and stress do(!) help; they are things like the

benzodiazepines (valium, klonopin) and other tranquilizers. Brain problems

aren't all the same. ADHD meds are much different than OCD meds, and the latter

are much more likely to work.

Mathew Pankratz

________________________________

From: Soundsensitivity on behalf of Neil Holmes

Sent: Thu 7/20/2006 8:41 AM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

Thanks for the explanation Kathy, that kind of makes sense.

But what about Autism and ADD/ADHD, they must be put in the same bracket, as

they are not associated with trauma. Are they neurological, which is a physical

problem, not a psychological one?

Now I am confused, I know i did not ask for 4S as in through trauma or stress,

so if you just end up with this unfortunate syndrome it's classed as

neurological? That makes sense but unfortunately does not give much hope for a

cure unless you fancy taking addictive stimulant drugs.

But if there are 'prescription' drugs out there for ADD/ADHD and Autism why not

use the same for 4S?

Seriously though does Ritalin, Dexedine, " Crystal Meth " or even Cocaine have an

effect on 4S suffers? They all seem to be subscribed to people with ADD and

Autism.

What makes these " Street Drugs " work for them?

Except from a website on ADD:

A research report in the Archives of General Psychiatry states, " Cocaine, which

is one of the most reinforcing and addicting of the abused drugs, has

pharmacological actions that are very similar to those of methylphenidate

(Ritalin, Concerta), which is now the most commonly prescribed psychotropic

medicine for children in the U.S. "

What's going on in the World! I would rather take nothing and buy some boss

headphones!

So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

everything in-between.

So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

children would bring on 4S.

I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

they were taken out)

So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

things through because it cant cope with the workload.

And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

for some reason )

I know Marsha believes it originates from a

Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

" Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

fairly rapidly. "

Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

with 4S.

Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

Kathy -

I'm sorry your daughter has this crazy-making " thing " , but I know

she's fortunate to have a mom who doesn't take it personally and who

knew something was wrong that her child needed help with, and then

got help. My mother's mouth sounds were intolerable: she thought I

just hated her so she hated me back. I don't worry too much about

which problems came from where - I'm just trying to be

average!!!!

I do however have an intense curiosity about how someone like your

daughter - an innocent - and me, a survivor - could be triggered by

exactly the same things!?!?! I'd love to see brain scans of us to

see exactly what's going on and what the differences are. I'm so

sorry she feels rage with NO REASON. It must be so confusing to

her. At least I had some ideas about why I was pissed off all the

time!

Could you please tell me if she is able to anticipate it? I remember

that when it started, it was like there was nothing wrong with me and

I'd end up being triggered out of nowhere. It took some time (months

I believe) before I could remember that I couldn't stand a sound so I

could try to avoid it. I hope that makes sense.

Thakn you again - Adah

> >

> > Hi

> >

> > I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what

started

> 4S

> > in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD

and

> > everything in-between.

> >

> > So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a

while

> ago.

> >

> > Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like

> Autism

> > and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

> >

> > Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if

> studies

> > suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on

> Autism,

> > then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> > children would bring on 4S.

> >

> > I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are

either

> > altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to

> normal.

> > I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as

good as

> > getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some

children.

> >

> > Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps

is to

> be

> > honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

> >

> > It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and

> diseases

> > can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

> >

> > The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD,

4S

> etc)

> > most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat

can do

> > that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor

said

> they

> > were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it

> was

> > constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill

> since

> > they were taken out)

> >

> > So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> > vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> > things through because it cant cope with the workload.

> >

> > And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> > Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to

spell

> > for some reason )

> >

> > I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> > Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be,

now

> > lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its

all

> in

> > the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by

Psychological,

> > what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your

brain

> that

> > you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

> >

> > With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in

Hypercusis.

> > With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage,

Nervousnes

> etc

> >

> > Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> > " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain

> improvement

> > over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother

them as

> > opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound

> tolerance

> > fairly rapidly. "

> >

> > Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

> >

> > I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry

Marsha )

> > with 4S.

> >

> > Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological

> illness

> > because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> > cracks, lock doors etc?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Effexor isn't aimed at OCD specifically, but it is often prescribed for it. Its

an SNRI, meaning that it inhibits the reuptake of Serotonin and Norephinephrine.

How do you seperate the sensitivity from the anxiety? Do the sounds cause you

pain? I haven't heard anyone claiming any other problem other than the anger and

anxiety caused by the sounds. If you get rid of the anxiety and obsessive focus

on them, you relieve the problem. Valium and Klonopin do that very well.

Effexor doesn't have the immediate effects, but it can be taken daily.

Benzodiazepines shouldn't be taken daily unless under the direction of a doctor;

quitting them abruptly can cause seizures. A gradual dose reduction is required

to avoid that. Not that it's too difficult.

Mathew Pankratz

________________________________

From: Soundsensitivity on behalf of Kathy Howe

Sent: Thu 7/20/2006 7:02 PM

To: Soundsensitivity

Subject: RE: So what started 4S in us all?

Are those OCD meds? And do they only work if you take all 3? And to want

extent do you feel they help--is your sensitivity less, or does it just help

with the anxiety created by the sounds?

Thanks,

Kathy

So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

everything in-between.

So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

children would bring on 4S.

I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

they were taken out)

So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

things through because it cant cope with the workload.

And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

for some reason )

I know Marsha believes it originates from a

Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

" Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

fairly rapidly. "

Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

with 4S.

Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

It's my daughter, 9, who has SSS. The sounds seem to cause her extreme

anxiety and anger. I wish it was me instead. It's very hard to see your

child suffering.

Thanks for the info.

Kathy Howe

So what started 4S in us all?

Hi

I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what started 4S

in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD and

everything in-between.

So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a while ago.

Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like Autism

and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if studies

suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on Autism,

then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

children would bring on 4S.

I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are either

altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to normal.

I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good as

getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is to be

honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and diseases

can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD, 4S etc)

most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can do

that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor said they

were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it was

constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill since

they were taken out)

So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

things through because it cant cope with the workload.

And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to spell

for some reason )

I know Marsha believes it originates from a

Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be, now

lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its all in

the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by Psychological,

what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your brain that

you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage, Nervousnes etc

Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

" Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain improvement

over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them as

opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound tolerance

fairly rapidly. "

Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry Marsha )

with 4S.

Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological illness

because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

cracks, lock doors etc?

[Guest guest]

ADD or ADHD are not 4 S.

These are different problems, different etiologies, onset, effects,

and more.

You could potentially have both. Or one. Or neither.

I do not believe in 'emotional' diseases. We do not lie in our

bodies, our feelings and thoughts are directly related to physiologic

processes. When we cry, we release proteins in our tears, our brain

wave patterns change, and we KNOW we are experiencing inner changes

beyond that, too. What do you think instructs your tear glands to

produce liquid, turns your mouth muscles down, and reddens the

capillaries in your eyes.

All of your thoughts, including simple intentions, i.e., shall I life

my arm, are instantly reflected in brain chemistry changes, sugar

uptake, electrical or water flow, neural network firing, even if you

DO NOT Lift your arm. Just your INTENTION.

Please do not divorce your body from your mind. This is not possible

nor is it a healthy way to look at ourselves. We are one-being.

Many 'emotional' diseases have been shown to be very dependent on

changes in brain chemistry. This is becoming more obvious as time

passes.

4S is also related, I am sure, to brain chemistry changes.

Marsha

[Guest guest]

I don't think its an overly simplistic view. I think Marsha is

right. We are carbon-based life forms who respond to environmental

cues. I have a Ph.D. in biochemistry and have a supposed " mental "

disorder and SSSS so I've thought alot about it. Everything in your

body has a biochemical basis, and it is beautifully complex. I

don't think you can separate thoughts from the body, since the body

is producing them. I think people with SSSS have altered reactions

to the environment, and it rewires the brain and senses in the

physical manner. For instance, I think our " flight or flight " or

anger and anxiety symptoms are in overdrive and linked to abnormal

environmental cues (gum chewing). Then we display avoidance or

anger behavior as some type of survival or coping mechanism to the

stress.

I try to " face the music "

as best I can and I think taking the sound problem head on

physically changes my body's reactions to the sound. Why am I

getting angry? Can I refocus on something else? Can I reason out

that the person or source of the noise is not dangerous and is not

trying to purposefully make me upset or anxious? Can I calm myself

down. This noise is not really a stressor; there are other true

stressors like being chased or being yelled at. If that doesn't

work, I just leave or put myself in a more pleasant place, or if

possible tell the person to quiet down because I have hypersensitive

hearing, politely. I have come to the point that I don't care if

someone thinks I'm mentally ill, so I don't really have a problem

telling people about it.

What really scares me is that I have told people in the past about

my sensitivity, and they laugh or take advantage of it by provoking

the symptoms. I think these people are sick because stirring up the

SSSS is like giving sugar to a diabetic.

The source of the problem could be a multitude of processes:

nerve overstimulation, too much or too little neurotransmitter to

process the sound sense coming from the ear to the brain, physical

damage to a certain part of the brain or ear or even the eye that

messes up the enviromental sensing process... For instance, our

improper reaction to a environmental sound may cause the release of

hormones like cortisol that sends a chemical message all over the

body to run, because of apparent danger. So the reactions to sound

are body-wide to me.

The body (which includes the " mind " )cannot be separated because it

is too complex. You make it sound like thoughts to a body are

separate like a soul is to a body. Thoughts are physical

manifestations and productions of the brain. Cognition has a

phyical, biological origin. It is a biological phenomena.

I think it will take drugs and re-programming a persons response to

environmental cues to treat SSSs. I have bipolar disorder because I

have a deficiency in neurotransmitters or regions of the brain

involve with neurotransmitter signaling processes. With this

disorder is paranoia, in which EVERYTHING, not just noises, puts me

in a physically uncomfortable spot. I am taking three medications,

which treat the bipolar but also, thank god, lessen the SS. I am

also training myself to stop being upset by triggers, and that is

working also. I have to. I am sick of being in a miserable state

all the time.

I am proud of everyone here who is bravely taking on the world

despite this disorder. I KNOW it is hard.

SG

>

> This is an overly simplistic view. Just as my eyes are seperate

from my head, part of it, my thoughts are a seperate part of my body

though a connected one. Just as I can have a problem with my eyes

and not the rest of my head, I can have a problem with my thoughts

not caused by my body. This is the extreme of the Nurture vs.

Nature debate, and ultimately it says that we are not responsible

for the things we do because " it was a disease that he didn't have

control of. " Our thoughts aren't triggered by electrical signals:

they cause electrical charges to be sent. Perhaps a little chicken

or the egg in nature, but it remains clear we CONTROL our thought

processes, and so they can't be controlled purely by chemistry.

That's silly. If we have a problem with how we think- depending on

its origin- we don't turn to pills or surgery- we work out thought

problems on their own. It's silly to think that there is a physical

abnormality in the brain (or more so, the ear) that causes 4S.

Why? The whole disorder has to do with our reactions to very

specific sounds. Do you honestly think there is an abnormality in

the ear or brain that causes us to be annoyed by these sounds?

We're not talking about pain or anything of that nature, we're

talking about an extreme reaction to distasteful sounds. When there

are physical abnormalities in the ear, they are not specific. They

cause a sensitivity to ALL sounds. It simply isn't possible for a

nerve to be damaged and for that nerve to select crunching sounds.

It is so illogical as to be laughable. The only thing capable of

producing the anxiety related to the specific trigger sounds we hate

is Cognition. It really is the only process that can do so.

>

> If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear how, but so far I haven't heard any

hypothesis as to how 4S could be connected to Hyperacusis or any

other ear disorder. The first step to finding a cure is finding a

logical cause.

>

> And the first step toward finding that logical cause, is to look-

with an *open* mind, at the potential, logical causes; we can't just

look at the ones that'll benefit our pocketbook- not if we're honest

about our desire to help others and help ourselves.

>

> Could being immunized cause this? It's extremely unlikely. Why?

Most vaccines are unable to cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier, and

unless you still think the ear could cause it, they're ruled out.

Even the miniscule amount that can, they're extremely unlikely.

Why? Well, consider the fact that no drug on the planet causes this

sort of problem. Of all the drugs ever consumed, recreationally or

legally, not one of them causes a long term personality change from

such short-term use. Sure, LSD may cause some pretty major

personality changes from long term uses, but for a single use, there

are essentially none. It just doesn't happen. Could vaccines be

the one thing that does? Sure, but it seems ultra-incredibly

unlikely.

>

> Could this be caused by too much dopamine or norephinephrine or

serotonin or glutamine or NMDA? Too little? Sure, maybe for some

reasons our brain cells don't work quite right. That seems to make

sense. Would that cause us to focus in on this? No, but it could

potentially make us more prone to obsessive thinking and anxious

responses to things. That would make sense. It could be caused by

some complex routes of behaviourist-type conditioning. We know

there are psychological problems caused by that.

>

> Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've missed something, maybe there's some

logic that explains the other suggestions, but I can't see any. If

there are, like I said, I'd be incredibly happy to hear about them.

Anything to have my problems fixed.

>

>

> Mathew Pankratz

>

>

>

> Re: So what started 4S in us all?

>

> ADD or ADHD are not 4 S.

>

> These are different problems, different etiologies, onset,

effects,

> and more.

>

> You could potentially have both. Or one. Or neither.

>

>

> I do not believe in 'emotional' diseases. We do not lie in our

> bodies, our feelings and thoughts are directly related to

physiologic

> processes. When we cry, we release proteins in our tears, our

brain

> wave patterns change, and we KNOW we are experiencing inner

changes

> beyond that, too. What do you think instructs your tear glands to

> produce liquid, turns your mouth muscles down, and reddens the

> capillaries in your eyes.

>

> All of your thoughts, including simple intentions, i.e., shall I

life

> my arm, are instantly reflected in brain chemistry changes, sugar

> uptake, electrical or water flow, neural network firing, even if

you

> DO NOT Lift your arm. Just your INTENTION.

>

> Please do not divorce your body from your mind. This is not

possible

> nor is it a healthy way to look at ourselves. We are one-being.

>

> Many 'emotional' diseases have been shown to be very dependent on

> changes in brain chemistry. This is becoming more obvious as time

> passes.

>

> 4S is also related, I am sure, to brain chemistry changes.

>

>

> Marsha

>

[Guest guest]

I just posted another blurb on here to this message thread. I have

SSSS, bipolar disorder with paranoia. The paranoia is like SSSS,

but alot more things set me off. I take lamictal, zoloft, and

risperdal-since I have taken these, my SSSS and paranoia has

decreased substantially. I think the zoloft and risperdal are the

key helpers for the SSSS and paranoia. I also, have tried to have

the mental stamina to rewire my brain to stop reacting to the sounds

the way I do. But this secondary approach is only possible because

the medication is helping me. I would check into this. Maybe try

it.

SG

>

> Yes, ADD and autism are physical problems with the brain, not

psychological.

> We don't know for sure if SSS is neurological or possibly some

strange

> physical malady such as teeth causing pressure on a nerve

associated with

> the ear...who knows??? But what most of us I think believe is

that it

> definitely is not psychological. The sufferers can't possibly all

have a

> psychological reaction that just coincidentally occurs at age 8

and has the

> same progression of symptoms (or approximate progression).

>

> As far as drugs are concerned, so far no one seems to have taken

anything

> that relieves the SSS problem. And I know someone said they did

take meds

> for ADD.

>

> Someone on the site had asked if anyone had taken any OCD meds for

SSS. I

> don't remember anyone responding that they had. I have had

several people

> tell me it sounds like an OCD. I would be interested to know if

anyone has

> taken them. My daughter is going through neurofeedback right now,

and I am

> considering trying an OCD drug that the doctor said may help.

However, I

> would really like any info about sufferers who have tried them.

>

> I really still feel that a strep virus might have caused this--

damage to the

> basal ganglia and a kind of " OCD. " Although not a classic OCD,

SSS is an

> obsession and extreme adversion to certain sounds.

>

> Who knows...but I'd appreciate any feedback about the drugs.

>

> Thanks,

> Kathy Howe

>

> So what started 4S in us all?

>

>

> Hi

>

> I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what

started 4S

> in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD

and

> everything in-between.

>

> So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a

while ago.

>

> Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like

Autism

> and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

>

> Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if

studies

> suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on

Autism,

> then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> children would bring on 4S.

>

> I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are

either

> altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to

normal.

> I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as good

as

> getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some children.

>

> Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps is

to be

> honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

>

> It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and

diseases

> can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

>

> The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD,

4S etc)

> most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat can

do

> that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor

said they

> were so infected your immune system would of suffered because it

was

> constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill

since

> they were taken out)

>

> So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body lets

> things through because it cant cope with the workload.

>

> And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological v

> Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to

spell

> for some reason )

>

> I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be,

now

> lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its

all in

> the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by

Psychological,

> what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your

brain that

> you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not have.

>

> With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in Hypercusis.

> With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage,

Nervousnes etc

>

> Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain

improvement

> over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother them

as

> opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound

tolerance

> fairly rapidly. "

>

> Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

>

> I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry

Marsha )

> with 4S.

>

> Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological

illness

> because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk between

> cracks, lock doors etc?

>

[Guest guest]

Do you honestly

think there is an abnormality in the ear or brain that causes us to be

annoyed

by these sounds?

YES. I do.

Marsha , M.S., CCC-A, FAAA

PS, you do not have to agree with me! : )

[Guest guest]

The body (which includes the " mind " )cannot be separated because it

is too complex. You make it sound like thoughts to a body are

separate like a soul is to a body. Thoughts are physical

manifestations and productions of the brain. Cognition has a

phyical, biological origin. It is a biological phenomena.

-----Exactly. You cannot separate the human being into little

parts. That is a more modern scientific view that is much more

related to industrialism, Darwinism, and objective machine-thinking,

and actually, takes away from our human dignity.

We are also not just the sum of our parts, either. As a whole being,

we are unique and fragile and miraculous and reactive.......also

reflective.

If you truly believe 4S is a purely psychological disorder, then you

uphold the pervasive nonsense that MDs tell people with 4S, or

hyperacusis of any type, that their impressions of the physical-ness

of the symptoms of this condition, are invalid. A lie.

And that is quite immoral, in my point of view, like telling a

patient, oh well see you are so high stressed you caused your fatal

disease.........be less stressed!

Right.

Marsha , MS

[Guest guest]

Concerning reaction to specific noises:

I've thought a lot about what kinds of noises set me off. I wish I had the

vocabulary to

describe this better, but something they seem to have in common is an intense

popping

quality, almost like click. It's there in synthetic bass (acoustic music almost

never bothers

me). It's present in gum smacking, in nail clipping, in open-mouth chewing.

So, does the brain process different types of noises in different ways? I don't

know, but if it

does, then the selective response makes sense.

Soundsensitivity , " anthro_pop " wrote:

>

> Do you honestly

> think there is an abnormality in the ear or brain that causes us to be

> annoyed

> by these sounds?

>

>

> YES. I do.

>

>

> Marsha , M.S., CCC-A, FAAA

>

> PS, you do not have to agree with me! : )

>

[Guest guest]

I agree - just because we are capable of speech and insight and have

opposable thumbs does not make our necks the tollbooth for all

things " mental " or " emotional " . The neuro-chemical dance is

incredible. When I was just beginning to face my issues I used to

complain about " this silly thing that carries my head around " because

my body is where I feel rage which makes me want to snap at the man I

love and be enraged and panicked and close to tears with the rest of

the oblivious world.

RE: I try to " face the music "

> as best I can and I think taking the sound problem head on

> physically changes my body's reactions to the sound.

That's sooo brave and strong of you. I don't know if everyone is

like me in that once I get triggered I stay triggered even if the

sound has stopped. Like if I hear my husband breathe only once in a

certain way, the rage stays in me until I do something to make it go

away -like tell him to stop it. I believe Kathy wrote that her

daughter tells her sister to " stop it " and most people mention that

they tell people to stop eating loud or move away, etc. - Is it to

avoid further stimulation or is it to make it stop echoing? ANYWAY,

my point here is that by " facing the music " ; changing the " habit " -

changing the way we initially respond to the triggers - is maybe one

key of perhaps changing the " wiring " . I've recently had some

beginning success with EFT tapping as a new habit which redirects the

energy in a more positive and gentle way using verbal affirmations

and accupressure. It may be possible to create a new way for my

self/body to respond to triggers by changing the habits my system has

used for 40 years.

Thank you for being here -Adah

> >

> > This is an overly simplistic view. Just as my eyes are seperate

> from my head, part of it, my thoughts are a seperate part of my

body

> though a connected one. Just as I can have a problem with my eyes

> and not the rest of my head, I can have a problem with my thoughts

> not caused by my body. This is the extreme of the Nurture vs.

> Nature debate, and ultimately it says that we are not responsible

> for the things we do because " it was a disease that he didn't have

> control of. " Our thoughts aren't triggered by electrical signals:

> they cause electrical charges to be sent. Perhaps a little chicken

> or the egg in nature, but it remains clear we CONTROL our thought

> processes, and so they can't be controlled purely by chemistry.

> That's silly. If we have a problem with how we think- depending on

> its origin- we don't turn to pills or surgery- we work out thought

> problems on their own. It's silly to think that there is a

physical

> abnormality in the brain (or more so, the ear) that causes 4S.

> Why? The whole disorder has to do with our reactions to very

> specific sounds. Do you honestly think there is an abnormality in

> the ear or brain that causes us to be annoyed by these sounds?

> We're not talking about pain or anything of that nature, we're

> talking about an extreme reaction to distasteful sounds. When

there

> are physical abnormalities in the ear, they are not specific. They

> cause a sensitivity to ALL sounds. It simply isn't possible for a

> nerve to be damaged and for that nerve to select crunching sounds.

> It is so illogical as to be laughable. The only thing capable of

> producing the anxiety related to the specific trigger sounds we

hate

> is Cognition. It really is the only process that can do so.

> >

> > If I'm wrong, I'd love to hear how, but so far I haven't heard

any

> hypothesis as to how 4S could be connected to Hyperacusis or any

> other ear disorder. The first step to finding a cure is finding a

> logical cause.

> >

> > And the first step toward finding that logical cause, is to look-

> with an *open* mind, at the potential, logical causes; we can't

just

> look at the ones that'll benefit our pocketbook- not if we're

honest

> about our desire to help others and help ourselves.

> >

> > Could being immunized cause this? It's extremely unlikely.

Why?

> Most vaccines are unable to cross the Blood-Brain-Barrier, and

> unless you still think the ear could cause it, they're ruled out.

> Even the miniscule amount that can, they're extremely unlikely.

> Why? Well, consider the fact that no drug on the planet causes this

> sort of problem. Of all the drugs ever consumed, recreationally or

> legally, not one of them causes a long term personality change from

> such short-term use. Sure, LSD may cause some pretty major

> personality changes from long term uses, but for a single use,

there

> are essentially none. It just doesn't happen. Could vaccines be

> the one thing that does? Sure, but it seems ultra-incredibly

> unlikely.

> >

> > Could this be caused by too much dopamine or norephinephrine or

> serotonin or glutamine or NMDA? Too little? Sure, maybe for some

> reasons our brain cells don't work quite right. That seems to make

> sense. Would that cause us to focus in on this? No, but it could

> potentially make us more prone to obsessive thinking and anxious

> responses to things. That would make sense. It could be caused by

> some complex routes of behaviourist-type conditioning. We know

> there are psychological problems caused by that.

> >

> > Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've missed something, maybe there's some

> logic that explains the other suggestions, but I can't see any. If

> there are, like I said, I'd be incredibly happy to hear about

them.

> Anything to have my problems fixed.

> >

> >

> > Mathew Pankratz

> >

> >

> >

> > Re: So what started 4S in us all?

> >

> > ADD or ADHD are not 4 S.

> >

> > These are different problems, different etiologies, onset,

> effects,

> > and more.

> >

> > You could potentially have both. Or one. Or neither.

> >

> >

> > I do not believe in 'emotional' diseases. We do not lie in our

> > bodies, our feelings and thoughts are directly related to

> physiologic

> > processes. When we cry, we release proteins in our tears, our

> brain

> > wave patterns change, and we KNOW we are experiencing inner

> changes

> > beyond that, too. What do you think instructs your tear glands

to

> > produce liquid, turns your mouth muscles down, and reddens the

> > capillaries in your eyes.

> >

> > All of your thoughts, including simple intentions, i.e., shall I

> life

> > my arm, are instantly reflected in brain chemistry changes, sugar

> > uptake, electrical or water flow, neural network firing, even if

> you

> > DO NOT Lift your arm. Just your INTENTION.

> >

> > Please do not divorce your body from your mind. This is not

> possible

> > nor is it a healthy way to look at ourselves. We are one-being.

> >

> > Many 'emotional' diseases have been shown to be very dependent on

> > changes in brain chemistry. This is becoming more obvious as

time

> > passes.

> >

> > 4S is also related, I am sure, to brain chemistry changes.

> >

> >

> > Marsha

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Kathy -

We do live in a much more enlightened age than even just 30 years

ago. The abuse many of us endured and everyone else who endured

worse would have a much better chance of being " rescued " if it were

happening today.

Just to clarify - the mother was also a pedophile. Not as sadistic

as the father, but a sick woman indeed. I doubt she would have

searched the net to find out what was wrong with me - there was

nothing wrong with me - I was just a hateful child!!

About your daughter - I can only say this because I remember it from

when I was a child: school was hell but since no one knew I hated

the sounds I had to keep the rage inside. I was not allowed to

express myself at home in front of my parents, I could only mock them

when I could no longer tolerate the sounds and then take the beatings.

I could however speak out to my siblings. The reason I made it

through school was because it was too frightening for me to let

normal people know I had a problem. I had to be as normal as I could

because I wouldn't be good enough. Also, the triggers were much more

intense with my family than with schoolmates.

PLEASE do not be so hard on yourself for not recognizing 4S in your

daughter - why would any normal person even think something like this

could exist? The end result is that you did the research and you're

getting help for her and you are loving her in spite of herself which

I'm sure is just what she needs most on a daily basis. That you love

her in spite of her rage.

I wrote in another post here that EFT is making me change the " habit "

of rage and maybe will change the whole thing . . . maybe it would

allow her to teach herself a more positive way to react - I can

guarantee you that she hates the anger too. Affirmations and

accupressure - she's young - it should be easier, no?

I send you my best . . . -Adah

> > >

> > > Hi

> > >

> > > I have been going round and round trying to fiqure out what

> started

> > 4S

> > > in me, ive gone from strep throat to defense mechanisms to ADD

> and

> > > everything in-between.

> > >

> > > So, my latest theory stems back to one that was brought up a

> while

> > ago.

> > >

> > > Childhood Immunizations, this is already linked to things like

> > Autism

> > > and quite possibly ADD/ADHD but i dont have any proof on that.

> > >

> > > Maybe 4S is a watered down version of something like them, if

> > studies

> > > suggest that some vaccinations in some children can bring on

> > Autism,

> > > then it wouldnt be wrong to say that some vaccinations in some

> > > children would bring on 4S.

> > >

> > > I guess its about changing brain receptors and how they are

> either

> > > altered permanently by 'Mumps' for example or recover back to

> > normal.

> > > I think i had mumps as a child, maybe the vaccination is as

> good as

> > > getting mumps from a brain change point of view in some

> children.

> > >

> > > Anyway i am in no way an expert on vaccinations or what mumps

> is to

> > be

> > > honest, but thought i would throw it out there.

> > >

> > > It seems like with the strep throat debate, some viruses and

> > diseases

> > > can infiltrate to the brain and alter how it works.

> > >

> > > The majority dont get effected, but some do (Autism, ADD/ADHD,

> 4S

> > etc)

> > > most probably due to a Vunerable Immune System (Strep Throat

> can do

> > > that) When i finally had my tonsils out at age 30 the doctor

> said

> > they

> > > were so infected your immune system would of suffered because

it

> > was

> > > constantly keeping your tonsils in check. - (I havent been ill

> > since

> > > they were taken out)

> > >

> > > So is it a vunerable immune system that when you have your

> > > vaccinations or get viruses, diseases in childhood the body

lets

> > > things through because it cant cope with the workload.

> > >

> > > And finally just one point if i may on 4S being Physiological

v

> > > Psychological (apart from Physiological seems to be easier to

> spell

> > > for some reason )

> > >

> > > I know Marsha believes it originates from a

> > > Physiological background, but i cant understand how it can be,

> now

> > > lets not get confused with me saying Psychological as in " Its

> all

> > in

> > > the mind, just get over it " Thats not what i mean by

> Psychological,

> > > what i mean is an involuntary reaction that comes from your

> brain

> > that

> > > you simply can not help and you certainly would rather not

have.

> > >

> > > With Physiological you would experience Pain, like in

> Hypercusis.

> > > With Psychological you would experience Anxiety, Rage,

> Nervousnes

> > etc

> > >

> > > Marsha wrote this in a very recent post.

> > > " Many times, the 4S patient, for example, does not retain

> > improvement

> > > over longer periods of time, the same triggers still bother

> them as

> > > opposed to the classic hyperacusic who expands their sound

> > tolerance

> > > fairly rapidly. "

> > >

> > > Is that because one is Physiological and 4S Psychological?

> > >

> > > I just dont understand the Physiological argument (Sorry

> Marsha )

> > > with 4S.

> > >

> > > Does a person with an OCD get diagnosed with a Physiological

> > illness

> > > because they have to physically clean, count steps, walk

between

> > > cracks, lock doors etc?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

I am sure we are all familiar with the saying 'one man's garbage is

another man's treasure.'

, this site might be garbage to you, but it indeed a treasure

to me.

Do we, or should we blindly accept and believe everything that Dr.

says. Probably not. Do we or should we take the time to listen

to what she has to say and take what we need and use it to our

advantage? Certainly.

There is no one thing that makes everyone happy. That sounds like a

pretty obvious statement...because it is.

'Correct me if I am wrong', but I was under the impression that this

was a support group; created and designed so that people having

similar problems could share their experiences in the hope of finding

some way to make their battle with 4S's a little less traumatic than

it was the day before.

The beauty of the group is the diversity. Would we be here if each of

us had the exact same symptoms, triggers, reactions, or solutions as

the next person? Of course not. We are people; not a Windows

operating system. We can't just type in control, alt, delete in our

brain to restart it and make this problem go away. We are SO much more

complex than that.

I understand your argument, or I should say that I follow some of the

ideas put forth in your argument. It seems reasonable that if you

could stop thinking something, or....stop `realizing' something, it

would not be a problem anymore. In this way, I feel you are a victim

of circular logic; and as we all know...your logic can take many

forms, but the circle really should not be one of them.

I think, therefore I am...So, if I think I am not, am I still?

Do I have to be thinking about being a being to be thinking; or...can

I still " think " while I am unable to express; or even know that I am

thinking? What role does this thought have if there are no physical

elements to take it where it should go? Where is this impulse headed

if my mind created it, but my body is not capable of receiving it? And

if I am incapable of receiving it, why did my brain send the signal

out in the first place? Wouldn't it inherently know which thoughts to

think? Isn't that its job? Hasn't it learned anything over the last 30

years? I control my thoughts, and I would like to figure out a way to

make my brain think that it should know what to think before I have to

send it a message from the other side of my brain to make it think that!

It is interesting, `even comical' to think that we, as mere human

beings, would be able to characterize anything as a purely

psychological phenomena, when we know full well that psychology is

based in, rooted in, and intrinsically – hence inextricably - linked

to biology AND chemistry.

As you know, there are transmitters and receptors and

synapses...etc...and there is no person, alive or dead, willing to say

definitively that they understand PRECISELY how each work, and what

problems/abnormalities can occur with each.

Is it so difficult to believe that there could be a physical flaw? It

doesn't even have to be a flaw; it could be a kink, or a coil, just

something that keeps my brain from working like it should.

My argument is that just because there are no clearly visible flaws or

abnormalities, doesn't mean they couldn't possibly exist. And if there

are no flaws or abnormalities of any kind, doesn't that prove that it

must be purely psychological?

Not at all. It means we should probably re-define what we mean by flaw

or abnormality.

" It simply is not possible for a nerve to be damaged and for that

nerve to select crunching sounds. "

If you look at a very well known optical illusion, is there a flaw in

your eyes or your brain that causes you to see either two vases, or

two faces? Is your eye sending the right signal, then your brain

screws it up, or does your brain send the right signal, and you eyes

get them wrong. Is there a flaw in both or neither?

On those horrible 3-D computer generated posters, how come some people

can see them and other's cant? Is there an abnormality in those who

can see the images or in those who cannot? Can I learn to see them;

can I forget how?

The mind and the body are mysterious and wily things. To be sure,

there are occasions where they come together beautifully; seamlessly.

And then there are days when the two are about as harmonious as fist

fighting conjoined siblings; each trying to run far away from the other.

We are indeed the sum of our parts; some parts are real, some

imagined, some parts palpable, some perceived.

And we are back you your reference to the chicken or the egg in

Nature. You know why that is such a tough riddle?

`CAUSE NO ONE KNOWS!!!!!

Are there people who can scientifically explain that it was the egg.

Absolutely.

The chicken? Certainly.

Which is correct???

How the hell should I know!

Surely, some of the information will overlap; but it will never be the

same.

Each person takes either his own pioneer chicken; or trail blazing

egg...and rides off into the sunset; content with the explanation that

he/she has decided fits him/her best.

That said, I gather the consensus for this group is that one is one

because one IS one; not simply because one thinks himself/herself to be.

If you looked here for the answers you are searching for, and did not

find them, perhaps you should move on; or better, create a group of

more liked minded people.

In the event that we too eventually come to the conclusion that Dr.

is a liar and a charlatan; itching to swindle us out of our

hard earned money; we will google you, find your support group, and

happily request a membership...all the while praising you for being a

misunderstood revolutionary...whose ideas were way before their time.

That would teach Dr. the painful, but much needed lesson that

if she wants to make money in the audiology profession, she should

work on something more `concrete'...like maybe trying to create a

sound that makes people feel smart. Surely, she would make more money

peddling her innovative sounds than she ever would talking and writing

for hours on end to a few yahoos with some imagined disorder. Creating

a sound that makes you THINK you're brilliant....she could make

millions...except from those who believe the sound of their own voice

has essentially the same effect as her overpriced `mentatones'.

Until that happens, I would really appreciate it if you did not

belittle the discussions that are going on here. If you disagree, and

it is totally within your right to do so; there is a manner in which

you should express yourself. Included in said manner, in case you are

not sure, is the ability to debate, without arguing; and to descend,

without condescension.

Clearly, I still need to work on the latter.

And as far as paying for health care...I believe there is a different

group for those wanting to overthrow the government. As far as I am

concerned, anyone wishing to discuss the problems with this country,

and this countries policies and practices, need only log into or sign

up for this group if they are persons who are so inclined, but need a

little help blocking out the annoying sound of the keys on his/her

laptop while composing letters listing all the ills of our little

democracy.

Other than that, I think you should apologize for antagonizing one of

the only people willing to not only help...BUT LISTEN to our problems.

She is clearly someone who gives a damn; someone willing to wade

through all of the stories, the theories, and opinions to maybe,

perhaps provide a nugget of useful information to the group members.

Someone who has much, MUCH more restraint and tact than I, as she is

willing to tolerate you and your strongly held opinions and caviler

attitude; if not your childish insults.

We should all be so kind.

>

> Severely edited response...

>

> >

> >

> >You can say that it isn't psychological all you want (and

apparently some

> >people are so afraid of the stigma of a psychological illness that

they'll

> >accept what you say without any explanation) but that doesn't make

it true.

> > I think that charging people to have the problem fixed without any

> >explanation for your hypothesis is immoral.

>

> Firstly, I can't remember - although I stand to be corrected -

anybody on

> here saying that there is not a psychological *element* to SSSS.

> Secondly, I don't think anybody here accepts what Marsha says

without any

> explanation. Marsha has set this site up and came up with a name for

this

> problem: therefore we see her as a person who we can work with to help

> address the issues we face. She is - for many - the only person who is

> seriously investigating this problem and therefore we want to work

with her.

> If you can provide other names then feel free to post them on here

so that

> we - and Marsha - can see what they have to say about this and

discuss their

> approaches with them.

> Thirdly, charging people to have the problem fixed. I believe that

Marsha is

> a professional who can - as she is in the US - charge for

consultations.

> That's the way you do things over there. Here in the UK

consultations about

> *most* things are done on the National Health Service and are free -

we can

> pay to see other people but that is our choice. As far as I am

concernec, if

> anyone wants to meet up with Marsha - and pay her for the meeting -

then

> there is nothing wrong with that. If you want to say that it is

immoral then

> campaign to your government about the way your health service operates.

>

>

> >Their impressions of the " phsyical-ness of the symptoms " ? I've not

heard

> >anyone once claim that >they had a physical response to the sounds.

>

> There is a physical response to this, although it is probably partly

> psychological. I hear a noise that causes me distress and I can have a

> *physical* reaction.

>

> >Never heard anyone claim pain or increased intensity of the sounds.

I have

> >heard repeatedly that the sounds cause irritation, extreme anxiety,

> >terribly annoying.

>

> I accept that - no actual pain involved but major irritation.

>

> >No one ever said the sounds were markedly louder- beyond what could be

> >expected by shiftiing the focus on them.

>

> Maybe it hasn't been explicitly stated on here, but these sounds *are*

> louder to us (or at least to me). I hear sounds that other people

*cannot*

> hear - even when I explain what these sounds are and they start

listening

> out for them! It is NOT just a case of shifting my attention onto these

> sounds.

>

> >If you mean their belief that it is physical in nature the whole

comment

> >seems irrelevant since people can BELIEVE anything, especially when

they're

> >being lied to.

>

> I really think you ought to tone down your language on this - 'being

lied

> to' is far too strong a term to use.

>