Re: Cancer treatment and herbs.

[Guest guest]

..

>

> Anyone been in a similar situation? Any suggestions on what sort of

> approach to take? Anyone (apart from ) working in a situation where

> orthodox treatments and herbs are combined?

>

>

I've found that herbs are extremely helpful with orthodox treatments, and I

haven't had any adverse reactions. I concentrate on improving vitality,

digestion and reducing stress, with things like dandelion root, eleutherococcus,

nervines, etc. I've had patients who were told things were hopeless (but that a

spot of chemo would be palliative...) get heaps better, and in some cases, the

cancer has completely regressed. I avoid " competing " with orthodox treatments,

except for the odd bit of Thuja.

I would suggest, as they're wary, to concentrate on the supportive aspects of

herbal medicine, adn avoid talking about " anti-cancer " herbs.

Good luck with it.

Sara

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[Guest guest]

Hi Graham,

I have supported many patients in various stages of cancer

etc. The only time that I have been told that the herbs couldn't be

used was during a new trial for a new cancer drug where they didn't

want any other influences to the treatment. I personally don't give

any treatment DURING chemotherapy but concentrate on the gaps in

between, I wouldn't have a problem using herbs in radiotherapy. Most

patients find the treatment very beneficial. I tend to use tonics and

herbs to nourish as well those that may treat symptoms. I am careful

about the use of 'anti cancer' herbs since I don't like using too many

things to attack the body in already weakened patients. No problems

experienced in mixing with the various drug regimes although see above.

Lorraine.

[Guest guest]

Not a lot of experience here, but I am sure there are trials indicating

that chemotherapy outcomes improved by using herbs alongside. Check

Astragalus (possibly in Mills & Bone)

Also, aloe vera to prevent radiotherapy burns?

good luck

Sally O

> Hi All

>

> One of my patients is an oncology nurse who is interested in

> complementary

> therapies and in particular herbal medicine, as are many of the cancer

> patients. The current policy in the unit is to recommend to all

> patients

> undergoing orthodox treatment that they do not take any herbs or

> supplements

> which some patients find upsetting as they want to undergo orthodox

> treatment but also want to take supplements/herbs as well.

>

> My patient would like to get this policy changed and has persuaded one

> of

> the oncology consultants to talk to me. The thing is that I am only

> going

> to be able to " chat " to this consultant for 10 - 15 minutes before he

> starts

> his clinic so I'm not going to be able to get much across.

>

> The main thing that seems to worry them about herbs is potential

> herb/drug

> interactions, particularly anything that might reduce the efficacy of

> the

> drugs.

>

> Anyone been in a similar situation? Any suggestions on what sort of

> approach to take? Anyone (apart from ) working in a situation

> where

> orthodox treatments and herbs are combined?

>

> I'd be grateful if anyone could give me some pointers. If I had an

> hour I'd

> probably be OK but with only 10 -15 minutes I'm a bit unsure as how to

> proceed.

>

> Cheers

>

> Graham White B.Sc. (Herb. Med.)

> Medical Herbalist

> Bishop's Stortford

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

> www.gcwhite.co.uk

> gcwhite@...

> Tel. 01279 305793

> Mob. 07740 766335

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Graham

I think Church has had a lot of experience with Cancer patients, it

might be worth contacting him. Chris

Re: Cancer treatment and herbs.

Not a lot of experience here, but I am sure there are trials indicating

that chemotherapy outcomes improved by using herbs alongside. Check

Astragalus (possibly in Mills & Bone)

Also, aloe vera to prevent radiotherapy burns?

good luck

Sally O

> Hi All

>

> One of my patients is an oncology nurse who is interested in

> complementary

> therapies and in particular herbal medicine, as are many of the cancer

> patients. The current policy in the unit is to recommend to all

> patients

> undergoing orthodox treatment that they do not take any herbs or

> supplements

> which some patients find upsetting as they want to undergo orthodox

> treatment but also want to take supplements/herbs as well.

>

> My patient would like to get this policy changed and has persuaded one

> of

> the oncology consultants to talk to me. The thing is that I am only

> going

> to be able to " chat " to this consultant for 10 - 15 minutes before he

> starts

> his clinic so I'm not going to be able to get much across.

>

> The main thing that seems to worry them about herbs is potential

> herb/drug

> interactions, particularly anything that might reduce the efficacy of

> the

> drugs.

>

> Anyone been in a similar situation? Any suggestions on what sort of

> approach to take? Anyone (apart from ) working in a situation

> where

> orthodox treatments and herbs are combined?

>

> I'd be grateful if anyone could give me some pointers. If I had an

> hour I'd

> probably be OK but with only 10 -15 minutes I'm a bit unsure as how to

> proceed.

>

> Cheers

>

> Graham White B.Sc. (Herb. Med.)

> Medical Herbalist

> Bishop's Stortford

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

> www.gcwhite.co.uk

> gcwhite@...

> Tel. 01279 305793

> Mob. 07740 766335

>

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

For well tried and tested approaches check Donnie

Yance's paper " A Novel Approach to treating

cancer...etc " at Centrehealing.com under resources.

I've been using this approach for over a year now with

a number of very sick pts and they are doing well. I

do treat during chemo.

Fidler

--- herbsandhelpers

wrote:

> Hi Graham,

> I have supported many patients in various

> stages of cancer

> etc. The only time that I have been told that the

> herbs couldn't be

> used was during a new trial for a new cancer drug

> where they didn't

> want any other influences to the treatment. I

> personally don't give

> any treatment DURING chemotherapy but concentrate on

> the gaps in

> between, I wouldn't have a problem using herbs in

> radiotherapy. Most

> patients find the treatment very beneficial. I tend

> to use tonics and

> herbs to nourish as well those that may treat

> symptoms. I am careful

> about the use of 'anti cancer' herbs since I don't

> like using too many

> things to attack the body in already weakened

> patients. No problems

> experienced in mixing with the various drug regimes

> although see above.

>

> Lorraine.

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Astragalus is another one that can be added to the list. Some more liver

herbs recommended

>>

>> Anyone been in a similar situation? Any suggestions on what sort of

>> approach to take? Anyone (apart from ) working in a situation

>> where

>> orthodox treatments and herbs are combined?

>>

>>

> I've found that herbs are extremely helpful with orthodox treatments, and

> I haven't had any adverse reactions. I concentrate on improving vitality,

> digestion and reducing stress, with things like dandelion root,

> eleutherococcus, nervines, etc. I've had patients who were told things

> were hopeless (but that a spot of chemo would be palliative...) get heaps

> better, and in some cases, the cancer has completely regressed. I avoid

> " competing " with orthodox treatments, except for the odd bit of Thuja.

> I would suggest, as they're wary, to concentrate on the supportive aspects

> of herbal medicine, adn avoid talking about " anti-cancer " herbs.

> Good luck with it.

> Sara

>

> --

> _______________________________________________

> Check out the latest SMS services @ http://www.linuxmail.org

> This allows you to send and receive SMS through your mailbox.

>

> Powered by Outblaze

>

>

> List Owner: Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Graham,

Seems to me like perhaps some people are missing the point of your

question here.

The issue is what can you do in 5-10 minutes " audience " with a possibly

hostile oncologist. The answer is quite possibly nothing.

The best thing would be to ASK him what are his specific issues (if any)

, and if he has evidence to support these concerns.

If you can establish that he has certain specific areas of interest or

issue then you can offer to provide him with literature that addresses

them.

Alternatively, ask if he is aware of the fact that Herbs and nutrients

(especially dietary antioxidants) can

a) decrease or protect against specific toxicities of conventional txs.

increase the sensitivity of cancer cells to C+R(chemoand

rdiosensitization) by a variety of mechanisms

c) protect against myelosuppressive effects of C+R ( the usual dose

limiting toxicity)

d) synergisytically act on the same targets as certain chemotherapies

e) that evidence for negative interactions is almost entirely absent

Following that , you can then undertake to show him the literature that

<may> help him become better informed. You can send him that later.

There is no way you can have a discussion in ten minutes that will

" change his mind " .

Also, there is a big difference between open hostility (common enough)

and ignorance (even more common).

My experience, FWIW is that unless an oncologist is particularly open

minded and has an explicit interest in becoming more informed, that this

sort of thing is a major exercise in futility. My approach is to get

THEM to contact ME. that usually shows how interested they really are!

hope that helps

jonathan

Your onc nurse might be interested in the Seminars in Oncological

Nursing which did a special isue on CAM therapies last year.

jonathan

>

> Hi All

>

> One of my patients is an oncology nurse who is interested in

complementary

> therapies and in particular herbal medicine, as are many of the cancer

> patients. The current policy in the unit is to recommend to all

patients

> undergoing orthodox treatment that they do not take any herbs or

supplements

> which some patients find upsetting as they want to undergo orthodox

> treatment but also want to take supplements/herbs as well.

>

> My patient would like to get this policy changed and has persuaded one

of

> the oncology consultants to talk to me. The thing is that I am only

going

> to be able to " chat " to this consultant for 10 - 15 minutes before he

starts

> his clinic so I'm not going to be able to get much across.

>

> The main thing that seems to worry them about herbs is potential

herb/drug

> interactions, particularly anything that might reduce the efficacy of

the

> drugs.

>

> Anyone been in a similar situation? Any suggestions on what sort of

> approach to take? Anyone (apart from ) working in a situation

where

> orthodox treatments and herbs are combined?

>

> I'd be grateful if anyone could give me some pointers. If I had an

hour I'd

> probably be OK but with only 10 -15 minutes I'm a bit unsure as how to

> proceed.

>

> Cheers

>

> Graham White B.Sc. (Herb. Med.)

> Medical Herbalist

> Bishop's Stortford

> -----------------------------------------------------------------

> www.gcwhite.co.uk

> gcwhite@...

> Tel. 01279 305793

> Mob. 07740 766335

>

[Guest guest]

I don't believe its necessary to have a GP's consent. Obviously there are

many factors involved - eg are they having mainstream medicine too or are they

only having herbal treatment - my understanding is that that is where it

becomes tricky, - if they have refused mainstream medicine. At that point, as

far as I'm aware, you would be safe to have the patient sign something stating

that they have received advice from the medical profession but have decided

to refuse treatment - it keeps you in the clear. Other than that, I believe

its the patient's choice.

I have quite a few cancer patients and I work with them throughout

chemotherapy/radiation treatment, so far with very good results, but its even

better

if you can get them to start herbal medicine before any other mainstream

therapy. I always tell my patients to tell their oncologist that if they have

any concerns about the herbs they are taking that they can pick up the

telephone and speak to me. I sometimes get the odd call from the pharmacy

department

just making sure that the herbs are not contraindicating the chemo - but

more often than not, I don't hear anything. One oncologist now actually

copies

me with all correspondence regarding our mutual patient.

I may be being a bit negative - but I believe if we wait to get the consent

of the GP, you will probably never start helping the patient - many GP's are

negative, some are middle of the road and in my experience,a lbeit limited,

very few of them are positive towards herbal care of cancer patients.

Hope this helps.

Jean

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have a client with terminal cancer coming to see me this week. Would i

need to obtain gp's consent before actually starting the treatment. I'm

assuming he would be keen to get started as soon as poss with the treatment,

but would i be best waiting until i have gp's consent.

Steph

>

>Reply-To: ukherbal-list

>To: ukherbal-list

>Subject: Re: Cancer treatment and herbs.

>Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 08:56:31 -0000

>

>Hi Graham,

> I have supported many patients in various stages of cancer

>etc. The only time that I have been told that the herbs couldn't be

>used was during a new trial for a new cancer drug where they didn't

>want any other influences to the treatment. I personally don't give

>any treatment DURING chemotherapy but concentrate on the gaps in

>between, I wouldn't have a problem using herbs in radiotherapy. Most

>patients find the treatment very beneficial. I tend to use tonics and

>herbs to nourish as well those that may treat symptoms. I am careful

>about the use of 'anti cancer' herbs since I don't like using too many

>things to attack the body in already weakened patients. No problems

>experienced in mixing with the various drug regimes although see above.

>

>Lorraine.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that its reassuring to hear. I don't know much about his

situation at this point but was given the impression that his doctor told

him there was nothing else he could do, so i don't think he is recieving

treatment anymore. Obviously in the clients best interests to get started

ASAP.

Steph

>From: jeanrdow@...

>Reply-To: ukherbal-list

>To: ukherbal-list

>Subject: Re: Re: Cancer treatment and herbs.

>Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 11:49:33 EST

>

>I don't believe its necessary to have a GP's consent. Obviously there are

>many factors involved - eg are they having mainstream medicine too or are

>they

>only having herbal treatment - my understanding is that that is where it

>becomes tricky, - if they have refused mainstream medicine. At that point,

> as

>far as I'm aware, you would be safe to have the patient sign something

>stating

>that they have received advice from the medical profession but have

>decided

>to refuse treatment - it keeps you in the clear. Other than that, I

>believe

>its the patient's choice.

>

>I have quite a few cancer patients and I work with them throughout

>chemotherapy/radiation treatment, so far with very good results, but its

>even better

>if you can get them to start herbal medicine before any other mainstream

>therapy. I always tell my patients to tell their oncologist that if they

>have

>any concerns about the herbs they are taking that they can pick up the

>telephone and speak to me. I sometimes get the odd call from the pharmacy

>department

>just making sure that the herbs are not contraindicating the chemo - but

>more often than not, I don't hear anything. One oncologist now actually

>copies

>me with all correspondence regarding our mutual patient.

>

>I may be being a bit negative - but I believe if we wait to get the consent

>of the GP, you will probably never start helping the patient - many GP's

>are

>negative, some are middle of the road and in my experience,a lbeit

>limited,

>very few of them are positive towards herbal care of cancer patients.

>

>Hope this helps.

>Jean

>

>

>