(No subject)

[Guest guest]

Hello Eliezer,

You joined & posted to my list, chronic_pain, recently.

I only had a superficial idea of your problems until I read your web pages

after sending you a post. We have somewhat similar religious backgrounds,

and although I am frequently stuck at home due to symptoms & laziness, I

have a background in working with serious problems. There may be some ways

to get you sophisticated surgery if it really might help. I would like you

to send me directly (mailto:kturbin@...),

information on your original conditions, symptoms, diagnoses, what happened

in the bad surgery, & some details about what doctors say your problems are

now, and also what you regard them as.

I gather that you are using public computer facilities, and you probably

can't get there frequently. If it is easier to write, my address is:

Turbin

8070 W. Rd., No. 1044

Las Vegas, NV 89113

I prefer not to be contacted by phone, because my disability causes me to

have very irregular sleeping hours. BTW, I was quite impressed by your

web-site construction, particularly the use of frames/tables.

If there is any real chance of corrective surgery by very sophisticated

surgeons, I have a reasonable chance of helping you get it. If it just

comes down to better & supportive living arrangements, I could help there too.

It is better that this stuff does not go through the list because I am not

interested in sharing it right now with a support group, and do not always

get to read the list mail.

Please write,

Ken Turbin

At 01:58 AM 1/20/99 -0800, you wrote:

~

~

~I do not understand how I am receiving (3 copies now) this letter over

~and over. It included originally a line that included my name I.D. at

~the top of the letter, but does not appear here for some reason (that's

~not important, however). Truthfully speaking, I do not remember posting

~anything here, though I am a member of the group, disabled, paraplegic,

~and almost totally bedridden because of deliberate malpractice carried

~out on me in Israel in 1985.

~http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/eliezer_dvir/

~Guestbook:

~http://www.mercury.beseen.com/guestbook/h/37609/sign/html

~However, this is only the history of the initiation of my paraplegic

~situation.

~ More importantly, I am in Canada, unable to leave my apartment without

~very special transportation, which of course I am unable to obtain, and

~have been simply denied any access to any form of medical care, because

~the doctors here categorically refuse to give consideration of any

~realistic nature to people in my condition (I am but one of

~approximately 14,900 disabled in the province that is in this spot -

~this not is not directed _absolutely_ to my own case, though I would

~certainly appreciate any assistance that may be offered regarding it.

~My prime emphasis is the attempt to gain proper medical care for the

~entire disabled community, most of whom, being as indigent as myself,

~have no access to the Internet). I have written letters to the Premier

~of B.C. (Glen , who only waffled and did not even attempt to answer

~any of my questions at all; and the Health Minister, who has not even

~bothered to answer me - period) and many others, only to be totally

~ignored in my call for justice. I fail to see how a purportedly

~socialist 'government' can cause so much trouble for the entire province

~(doctors and nurses strikes + other paramedicals).

~ Can anyone provide me with a real answer why any doctor would refuse to

~come to a patient's home when the patient _can_not_ get out to go to

~their office? What are we to do? Fly? Teleport? Obviously these are

~ridiculous solutions in their faces, but I am in a desperate search for

~answers. Please reply directly to me, if you would, and I thank you for

~your consideration.

~ Most cordially,

~ Mr. Eliezer Dvir

~

~> HELO smtReceived: (qmail 14922 invoked from network); 16 Jan 1999 14:31:44

~-0000

~> Received: from unknown (p3.erols.com) (207.172.3.236)

~> by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 16 Jan 1999 14:31:44 -0000

~> Received: from erols.com (207-172-170-143.s16.as1.hmt.erols.com

~[207.172.170.143])

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~> for <chronic_painonelist>; Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:32:36 -0500

(EST)

~> Message-ID:

~> Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:30:41 -0200

~>

~> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en]C-RR082798 (Win95; I)

~> MIME-Version: 1.0

~> To: chronic_painonelist

~> Subject: Re: What is going on!

~> References:

~> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

~> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

~>

~> ***>>> Moderator's Note:

~> Since the issue of a moderated list came up a few posts ago, for those who

~> who are newer members or just missed the fireworks & explosions,

~> When this list was started,it was moderated, but shifted to

~unmoderated/partially moderated within a few weeks.

~

~------------------------------------------------------------------------

~

[Guest guest]

Thank you kenneth; i waws wondering what the /?%% & & was wrong with my

server/computer/mail svc now, becuz of multiple listings in digest mode!

kat

Note** Youre very welcome, but what'd I do? --ken

_______________________________________________________

Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

[Guest guest]

Maybe it's just making up for the times when you couldn't be as active!

Mike

mailto:byteme@...

homepage: http://members.home.net/mcourteau

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/5/99 11:54:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, byteme@...

writes:

> The following link was just sent to me. It's computer magic. Please try it

> out and if you know how it works, please tell me before I go crazy!

>

> http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html

>

> Mike

Looks like I will be going crazy first. Have no idea how it is done. I even

refused to speak the chosen number.

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike,

I picked apart the visible source code, as I'm sure you did, and

all I can think of is the author is a java wizard (from hacking his site),

and there may be a disguised reference in <HEAD> tags for java code. He may

actually changed the meaning of the HTML we see to something else.

But that still doesn't account for the trick. So what I'm saying is

the visible code is bogus, and the trick is even more clever. I bet this

site starts logging some of the highest visit stats on the net!

Ken

At 11:53 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>The following link was just sent to me. It's computer magic. Please try it

>out and if you know how it works, please tell me before I go crazy!

>

>http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html

>

>Mike

>mailto:byteme@...

>homepage: http://members.home.net/mcourteau

>--------------------------------------------

>Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 19431463 or,

>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19431463 or,

>*E-mail me Express to my computer screen

>19431463@...

>--------------------------------------------

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up

>URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain

----------

Turbin | Mailto:kturbin@... | webmaster@...

Net Biz Development | *Page me: http://www.mirabilis.com/1719872

Tel. (702) 312- 6888 | Fax (702)312-6889 | GetICQ http://www.icq.com/

[Guest guest]

Ken I figured out the card trick. If you look closely none of the original

cards are in the last 5.

So, any card you chose is not going to be there.

Tonia

Re: (no subject)

>

>

>Hi Mike,

>

> I picked apart the visible source code, as I'm sure you did, and

>all I can think of is the author is a java wizard (from hacking his site),

>and there may be a disguised reference in <HEAD> tags for java code. He may

>actually changed the meaning of the HTML we see to something else.

>

> But that still doesn't account for the trick. So what I'm saying is

>the visible code is bogus, and the trick is even more clever. I bet this

>site starts logging some of the highest visit stats on the net!

>

> Ken

>

>

>At 11:53 PM 3/5/99 -0500, you wrote:

>>

>>

>>The following link was just sent to me. It's computer magic. Please try it

>>out and if you know how it works, please tell me before I go crazy!

>>

>>http://www3.mcps.k12.md.us/users/rsfay/magic/index.html

>>

>>Mike

>>mailto:byteme@...

>>homepage: http://members.home.net/mcourteau

>>--------------------------------------------

>>Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 19431463 or,

>>http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19431463 or,

>>*E-mail me Express to my computer screen

>>19431463@...

>>--------------------------------------------

>>

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist?

>>http://www.onelist.com

>>Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up

>>URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain

>

>

>----------

> Turbin | Mailto:kturbin@... | webmaster@...

>Net Biz Development | *Page me: http://www.mirabilis.com/1719872

>Tel. (702) 312- 6888 | Fax (702)312-6889 | GetICQ http://www.icq.com/

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>We are proud as punch of our new web site!

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Know someone who could profit from our list? Send our direct sign-up URL:

http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/chronic_pain

>

[Guest guest]

I would try not to get too nervous yet or to get ahead of yourself. Get the psych testing done and then at the IEP meeting (or before would be even better) tell them you would like to take a tour of and meet teachers in all possible placements before making a decision. Then YOU can decide where YOU think is best and work it out with them. You do NOT have to put her somewhere you know nothing about and DON'T take their word for what they say it is like or who would be in there with her.

I think asking others here might not be as helpful as the above because every state and every district has different types of classrooms that are labeled differently, so your school would most likely be very different from others here and even districts next door to your own.

Also, before transferring anywhere, ask why they recommend this transfer. What are the problems in the environment where she currently is that can't be addressed with creative accommodations/modifications. If she likes where she is and is making progress and friends and has familiarity with the building and staff and students (most of our kids have difficulty with transitions), and you like it there as well, then they need to make make it work where she is. Least restrictive environment.

We homeschool, but I have friends whose kids are fully included even though they have special medical and developmental issues other than DS. For instance I have one friend whose DD is going into middle school in an inclusion classroom who has DS and who had major strokes and brain surgery when she was 5, leaving her left arm and leg very low functioning, including her having had difficulties with feeding and ambulation including a wheelchair and catheterization. Another friend's child is 9 and included in 3rd grade and he has DS as well as major austism symptoms where he is not fully toilet trained, stims all the time, and is nonverbal. They are amazing advocates and their kids are donig just fine. I know inclusion is not doable or wanted in every situation, but if you do want inclusion it can work (if your district cooperates) regardless of medical or developmental issue.

Be aware, also, that once you make a decision on placement toward self-contained or in this instance to another school, it can be extremely difficult to move toward greater inclusion or the old placement. Perhaps if you do like a different placement, you can make that placement on a trial basis or with contingencies so that if it does not work out then it would be easier to go back. Go with your mommy instincts, also, not necessarily what the school says they think is best. You are her mother and your priority is her success, while this is only their job and their priority is likely different than yours (logistics of teacher scheduling, teacher availability (not your problem), $$, enrollment, etc.). Keep in mind their recommendations are just that...recommendations. They are not the final word. You are a key member of your daughter's IEP team and have the final say.

Also, if you are not satisfied with the testing or their recommendations, you can get an independent evaluation paid for by the district and perhaps that will help you get her placed where you think is most appropriate if there is disagreement.

Chrstine

[Guest guest]

,

You asked about labels and placement options. I've seen a few posts back to you...

When testing and identifying kids for special ed services, schools have to follow certain guidelines. But in our district, the "label" to receive services is NOT the same as the "class placement". That may be so for many districts. For example, my child's current label is MR (yes, mentally retarded) because that's the language used in the state of IL. However, we don't have MR classes. We have Inclusion (which is where my son is still placed at age 9 1/2, 4th grade), we have a "Modified Program", we have a "Guided Program" and we have an "Assisted Program". Children with a VARIETY of diagnoses are in these classes. They may have Down syndrome, Autism, or a variety of other needs. We don't have an OHI classroom. But children can be labeled Other Health Impaired in the state of IL. At least in ILlinois, there is an age limit on using the term Developmentally Delayed, because that was what my son's label was in preschool. When we transitioned to Kindergarten, the preschool teacher warned me ahead of time of the label changes (to MR) so that I would know that before I went into the meeting.

To me, MR means nothing more than that my son qualifies for services until his 22nd birthday. It's written on a piece of paper in a file drawer. As long as nobody refers to my child in that way, I ignore it!

For you, it seems important to know all of your options and BEFORE your meetings...Ask to observe various classrooms/programs so that you will have a best sense of what is right for your child. No single test should be required. Many people opt out. I like what somebody else wrote in: What will this test mean for my child educationally? The answer was that it would not make a difference, so the parent refused to allow the test. Sound advice, I believe.Good luck,Beth

[Guest guest]

no from line)

Subject: (no subject)

HELO smtReceived: (qmail 14922 invoked from network); 16 Jan 1999 14:31:44 -0000

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Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 09:30:41 -0200

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To: chronic_painonelist

Subject: Re: What is going on!

References:

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***>>> Moderator's Note:

Since the issue of a moderated list came up a few posts ago, for those who

who are newer members or just missed the fireworks & explosions,

When this list was started,it was moderated, but shifted to

unmoderated/partially moderated within a few weeks.

Many months went by where we had harmonious relationships. *Then it happened*.

Two respected & valued participants became engaged in ground war over some

differences, degenerating to mountains of insults. Also, this dispute was not

discovered until it had pulled in a good number of other list members as

supporters on each side, and a flurry of emails was being sent privately, to the

distress of many.

After about a week of trying to problem-solve with the involved members, a

decision was made to switch to a carefully moderated approach for the forseeable

future. Another option was to close the list, which we actually needed to do

temporarily.

In starting & maintaining chronic_pain we wanted to be as unrestricted as

possible, in a positive way. We had to make some changesor, in our view, would

not be acting responsibly. Since we all have difficult days, & as an

administrative choice, we now have 4 moderators who screen *everything*, &

confer on some posts & issues frequently.

Speaking for our moderators, (, Ken, Mike & Ray), I must say that we are

less than delighted about the extra work but understand the need for the work.

Were it a perfect world, this might not be necessary. But it does hav +++'s too:

*Every* post is always read by moderators. This is necessary on the chance that

someone is having extrememly severe diffuculties needing extra attention, to

protect the list from people wanting to use it mainly for marketing, and a

number of other reasons.

The Mods. have & do put a lot of work into chronic_pain to try & make

itconstructive & helpful for a special group of people. Do I hear any

thank-you's out there?

Apologies for this long added text.

Ken

Unmoderating the list would help immensely. Emails are not posted until

hours later, which kills any chances for conversations to get started.

The list will never get going again as long as it is like this. JMO

LL wrote:

>

>

>

> Hi,

> Have I missed something, is there a problem with the list?

> I haven't been receiving hardly any messages.

> If there is a problem, if there anything I can to do to help!

> Take Care,

> Lois

>

> >>>added message:

> Thanks for your concern about what is happening with the list. I think posting

generally dies down around these holidays. Some members left, a good number more

signed up. Seems like a natural flow of things. Where I am there is a serious

raging flu epidemic, and severe winter problems many other places. Judging by

personal email, email has just dropped off for a bit. Of course, if you want to

help boost list participation, get everyone you know to join, & ;>}

> you can send 5 responses for every other post (NOT).

>

> ~Ken~

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>