Re: Sleep deprivation after training

[Guest guest]

>

> I have a student (I teach judo) who is training and reports to me

that he cannot sleep on nights he practices. If he doesn't practice,

he sleeps like a rock. If he comes to practice, he cannot fall

asleep until 1 or 2 in the morning (practice ends at 8:30pm).

>

> After talking to him, it seems to be more of a mental issue (he is

physically tired, but mind is racing and cannot sleep) than a

physical one.

>

> Is there something he could do (or something he could add to his

diet) that might help prevent this? It's getting to the point where

he has to cut down on classes because of the amount of sleep he is

losing each week.>>>

***, some days i do my weight training at night, just because

of my obligation at the university in wich i´m studing. Sleep have

never been a problem for me, so i think that the effect of exercise

is not the same for everyone.

Anyway, i think that the following sources may will be of

interest to you.

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/15892929

Effects of exercise on sleep.

Clin. Sports Med. 2005 24(2):355-65

>

http://sleepdisorders.about.com/library/weekly/aa122099a.htm

Exercise and sleep. The Medical Post (1997)

This web page offer some useful tips to sleep better (breath

exercise, relaxation, etc).

http://jrscience.wcp.muohio.edu/nsfall03/labpacketArticles/SLEEP.THEEF

FECTSOFAEROBIC.html

Sleep, the effect of aerobic and anaerobic exercise

http://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/band132/b132-3.html

http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?

p=effect+exercise+sleep+deprivation & ei=UTF-8 & fr=FP-tab-web-

t & x=wrt & u=www.faccioni.com/Reviews/sleepdep.htm & w=effect+exercise+slee

p+deprivation & d=DDc4lxbfMdZZ & icp=1 & .intl=ushttp://www.jr2.ox.ac.uk/ban

dolier/band132/b132-3.html

The effect of sleep deprivation on athletic performance

-------------------------------

Sebastian Scoles

Buenos Aires, Argentina

[Guest guest]

It most likely is a mental/psychological thing.

Some people are mentally wide awake after doing a strenous physical activity.

What you could do is ask him to find something that can relax him as once he is

mentally relaxed, it would be easier for him to sleep.

I personally read a book if I can't get to sleep at night, it has worked well

for me a lot of times.

Mark Limbaga

Paranaque City, Philippines

> >

> > >

> > > I have a student (I teach judo) who is training

> > and reports to me

> > that he cannot sleep on nights he practices. If

> he

> > doesn't practice,

> > he sleeps like a rock. If he comes to practice,

> he

> > cannot fall

> > asleep until 1 or 2 in the morning (practice ends

> at

> > 8:30pm).

> > >

> > > After talking to him, it seems to be more of a

> > mental issue (he is

> > physically tired, but mind is racing and cannot

> > sleep) than a

> > physical one.

> > >

> > > Is there something he could do (or something he

> > could add to his

> > diet) that might help prevent this? It's getting

> to

> > the point where

> > he has to cut down on classes because of the

> amount

> > of sleep he is

> > losing each week.>>>

[Guest guest]

May be a mild sedative like sleepytime tea or kava kava

tea. These will be easy on the system and not habit

forming, but more of a ritual. My little sister had

problems with mind racing at a young age. Forming a

'go to sleep' ritual like make r take a hot shower can

help to calm the mind.

-Randy Gordon

Chicago, IL

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I have a student (I teach judo) who is

> training

> > > and reports to me

> > > that he cannot sleep on nights he practices. If

> > he

> > > doesn't practice,

> > > he sleeps like a rock. If he comes to practice,

> > he

> > > cannot fall

> > > asleep until 1 or 2 in the morning (practice

> ends

> > at

> > > 8:30pm).

> > > >

> > > > After talking to him, it seems to be more of a

> > > mental issue (he is

> > > physically tired, but mind is racing and cannot

> > > sleep) than a

> > > physical one.

> > > >

> > > > Is there something he could do (or something

> he

> > > could add to his

> > > diet) that might help prevent this? It's

> getting

> > to

> > > the point where

> > > he has to cut down on classes because of the

> > amount

> > > of sleep he is

> > > losing each week.>>>

[Guest guest]

makes a very good point. While exercise

unquestionably is a plus when it comes to improving

sleep, as many of the articles quoted by others imply,

there are times when exercise can also be a cause of

sleep disturbance.

<<Exercise enhances ACTH and ?-endorphin levels,

especially if it is exhausting and of short duration.

Exercising up to 90% of maximum oxygen capacity causes

a significant elevation of ACTH, similar to levels

observed during surgery or hypoglycemia.[727] Levels

may remain elevated for up to 6 minutes after exercise

cessation, and lower intensity exercise does not evoke

ACTH.[728] Well-trained athletes exhibit

hypercortisolism, possibly a result of decreased

adrenal ACTH sensitivity. Other causes of elevated

ACTH include acute hemorrhage, surgery, and emotional

stress. Acute illness is associated with increased

ACTH and cortisol levels with loss of diurnal

secretory patterns.

Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed.,

Copyright © 2003 Saunders, An Imprint of Elsevier pg

246>>

The student writes about may be exhibiting

signs of " over reaching " . Over reaching is not quite

the state of over-training but is a sign of intense

training. Intense training not only increases

cortisol but adrenaline and other stress hormones as

well.

mentions that the exercise ends at 8:30 pm but

does not mention how long the exercise session lasts.

Assuming that the sessions are between 90-120 minutes-

the student probably has not eaten a full meal since

lunch time. In order to accomplish a high intensity

workout of that length his body is eliciting glucagon

as well as adrenalin and cortisol to keep him going.

When we take into consideration the stress of intense

exercise we also have to consider all the other

stresses an individual may be experiencing at the same

time.

What other stresses does this student have? Is he a

full time student carrying a full load of classes?

Does he have a side job to help pay for classes? etc.

<<Stress Response

Both exogenous and endogenous stress stimuli activate

the HPA axis to produce sufficient glucocorticoid in

an attempt to counteract the insult. The HPA stress

response occurs in the context of a wide variety of

peripheral and central adaptors to stress, including

vasovagal and catecholamine activation and cytokine

secretion and action. A tightly controlled

immunoneuroendocrine interface regulates the ACTH

response to peripheral stressors, which include pain,

infection, inflammation, hypovolemia, trauma,

psychologic stress, and hypoglycemia. These signals

vary in their ability to generate ACTH secretion and

to sensitize the ACTH response to glucocorticoids.

hypoglycemia is a potent endogenous stressor that

evokes ACTH secretion

Larsen: Textbook of Endocrinology, 10th ed.,

Copyright © 2003 Saunders, An Imprint of Elsevier pg

246>>

I have personally observed that when I do intense

aerobic exercise such as rowing or cycling late in the

day I have problems sleeping. For this reason for

years I have made it a point to reserve high intensity

to the early part of the day. Weight lifting,even

heavy weights, never elicited the same sleep problems

for me that high intensity endurance training does .

Perhaps because in weight lifting, while the activity

is intense, a single set never lasts more than a

minute or two with adequate recovery between sets

whereas in cycling or rowing the intensity may last

from 30- 45 minutes continuously. This is just my

opinion and observation.

I have also noted that when I start a training program

after a period of not exercising for several weeks it

take less intensity to elicit the over reaching

symptoms. As my training program progresses I can

perform more intense workouts with less after effects.

I assume that this occurs because my system has

become accustomed to the higher intensity.

To answer your question as to what this individual

might be able to do to alleviate the problem of sleep

disturbance I might suggest the following.

1. Make sure he is eating properly during the day and

does not show up for practice after a long period

without food. Ideally he should eat about 90 minutes

before the session begins. He should take some carbs

and protein immediately after the sessions concludes

2. He needs to replace whatever fluids he may have

lost during the session.

He should weigh himself before and after the session.

Any weight loss is almost all fluid.

3. Cut back on some of the intensity until his system

has adapted more completely.

4. I assume that there is no way that he could attend

a morning session instead of the evening session-

That would be the best solution.

5. Perhaps he needs to learn some relaxation

techniques as well.

Just some thoughts and opinions.

Ralph Giarnella MD

Southington, CT

--- Neisler

wrote:

> I think he needs to look at cortisol rhythms.

> Cortisol is naturally higher in the morning and

> tapers off during the day. Exercise increases

> cortisol levels. By working out at night, the

> cortisol levels are higher than they naturally

> should be, hence, he is " jacked up " and can't sleep.

> One thing you may consider as his

> instructor...consider teaching a half hour or tai

> chi or a meditative qi gong (best) to help " calm "

> or relax the students down after a good workout.

>

> Neisler

> Atlanta, GA

>

>

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I have a student (I teach judo) who is

> training

> > > and reports to me

> > > that he cannot sleep on nights he practices.

> If

> > he

> > > doesn't practice,

> > > he sleeps like a rock. If he comes to

> practice,

> > he

> > > cannot fall

> > > asleep until 1 or 2 in the morning (practice

> ends

> > at

> > > 8:30pm).

> > > >

> > > > After talking to him, it seems to be more of

> a

> > > mental issue (he is

> > > physically tired, but mind is racing and

> cannot

> > > sleep) than a

> > > physical one.

> > > >

> > > > Is there something he could do (or something

> he

> > > could add to his

> > > diet) that might help prevent this? It's

> getting

> > to

> > > the point where

> > > he has to cut down on classes because of the

> > amount

> > > of sleep he is

> > > losing each week.>>>

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