Re: Quantum - Continuum, What is Time?

[Guest guest]

You sound a beautiful person, and time seems strange to me too.

I like the notion of time being the movement of objects. Such a

concept included the planitary movements as well as our own overcoming

distance.

[Rajiv]

Yes, I like your idea of “overcoming distance”. Science tells us that a

particle ‘x’ covers a distance ‘y’ in time ‘t’. Newton tells us that a

particle ‘x’ *overcomes* a distance ‘y’ in time ‘t’. Who was the scientist

and who was the conscious believer?

Newton laid the foundation of modern science. But like a God that we have

become “familiar with”, he has now been relegated to the background.

[sjariban]

So the eternal now may well be worth a thought as the NOW of our

experience has a universal slice of an event, as it is at any one

experience, a unique unfolding of a galactic proportion. Mmmmmmm...

Then it becomes beyond the understanding I suppose.

[Rajiv]

But what would you say if I told you that it is the understanding itself!

[sjariban]

Hope was the last evil out of Pandora's box. Now there is a thought!

[Rajiv]

Thanks. Good Input. Love mythology.

[sjariban]

And I like the way you expressed the common paradox of non allegience

to any system on the basis of non knowing and then declaring the

notion that not belonging to any system somehow frees one.

Are we the slave to doubt? And it can only exist because some believe.

I'm not sure either.

With much love and regard

Sjariban

Thank you for your straight-to-the-heart warmth!! I now confirm you are a

real person “out there” in space and time no matter where, no matter who.

Maybe I already knew you but never met you at least not in space and time.

Do you believe that? Do you believe in non-local direct one-to-one

relationship? When two people can be separated in space and time and yet not

be separated at all?

Regards

Rajiv

[Guest guest]

>To gain infinity, one has to let go the point of view. But if one does

that,

>then what does one gain?

The answer, I suppose, is in the Alchemical

wedding. In the marriage of the entity (point)

with that which is the universal. Where a new

being emerges whose center is everywhere and

whose circumference is nowhere.

Regards

Steve

[Guest guest]

>

> >To gain infinity, one has to let go the point of view. But if one does

> that,

> >then what does one gain?

>

> The answer, I suppose, is in the Alchemical

> wedding. In the marriage of the entity (point)

> with that which is the universal. Where a new

> being emerges whose center is everywhere and

> whose circumference is nowhere.

>

> Regards

> Steve

In answer to my own question, THIS is a nugget worthy of serious

attention! My heartfelt thanks for hope's fulfillment!

APMW

[Guest guest]

Time.

Outer. Inner. Secret. Very Secret. Utterly Secret. Ultimate.

When you 'know', you always know within 'space' and 'time', but when you

look for that ultimate knower and all he/she/it knows, what do you find? What

you find is nothing you can point to and say " It's this " . And nothing you can

point to and say " It's not this " . What you find is that 'knowing' is inevitably

something beyond what you can know.

However, the instant it appears, it appears as this and that, 'this' being the

bit that knnows something 'else' is there, and 'that' being the bit that plays

the rôle of being 'ob-jected' - 'thrown over there' - as opposed to 'subjected'

-

'chucked over here'.

When you look for the dividing-line between 'em, though, you're hard put to it.

Does the 'me-bit' stop in the consciousness of vision, or in the eye itself or

in

the act of seeing. And, if in the last mentioned, does the act contain the

object of vision or not? These may seem like stupîd question - 'begging the

question' - but they're not. Which bit IS you? And which bit is not?

If you really push the question, you find that knowing and knower AND style

of knowing are all one field - one thing. And - invariably - time, space and

awareness.

I keep harping on Tarthang Tulku's 'Timle, Space and Knowledge' series, but

I really do think it's worth it. There's hundreds of them now, or; at any rate,

10, all available from Dharma Publications, where the whole concept (for

such it is) of Time/Space/Awareness is examined, not only in detail (which

would be quite fun) but also in terms of immediately applicable exercises and

visualisations that really point you directly to what you're looking at.

All which being as it ever so may, I'd like to talk a little about time as it

appears to us, outer, inner, secret, very secret. utterly secret. ultimate.

Outer time s eems simple, no? It's the time you and I are living in. And yet...

For a tree, a single breath is 24 hours, for a lunar cycle, a single breath is

28+ days, for a solar cycle, 365.25.

Jupiter takes 12 years to cycle, Saturn, 28, the further planets (all of which

are a rhythming of being) far longer than that. Then we have the 60-year

cycles of Jupiter that 'enliven' the Chinese and Tibetan calendars, etc., etc.,

and these are micro-cycles as far as time itself is concerned, each one of

which is 'opaque' in both directions as far as it, itself, is concerned.

Solar systems take hundreds of years to complete each breath, each one of

which is made of hundreds of other minor rhythms, each one of these made

up of billions of quintrillions of micro-rhythms, and on and on ad infinitum.

And this is just minor phenomenon within the lives of galaxies and groups of

galaxies and the coming and going of universes in unending succession, now

on, now off, since the dawn of beginningless time and unto eternity.

Buddhist 'naive realists' reckon there are sixteen mental instants in any given

bare perception, (e. g., that you are noticing the colour blue), each one of

these no longer than a pico-second in itself and we are still talking millenia

as far as quantum phenomena are concerned. Which, themselves, last

forever as far as their micro-phenomena are concerned. And on and on, all

instants eternally divisible into a past, present and future instant, so that

there is never an ultimate instant... So much for external time. It goes on

forever in both directions.

Inner time is our time: your time and mine. The way my day unfolds and its

rhythms as opposed to yours... and theirs... Your year and my year, this bit

of life and that bit of life as it contains all this stuff and that stuff and

the way

it holds them for each of us... Our karma - 'expertientially initiated

potentialities for experience' as Whitehead calls it...

Time as 'consciously' (and often singularly obtusely!) experienced -

personally experienced. Good days, bad days, 'where'd the time go?', 'God!

How long's all this gonna take?' and what-have-you...

Secret time is the hidden times of the rhythming of one's body - the beating

of the heart, digestive cycles, menstrual cycles, bio-rhythms, and so on.

This is the outer aspect. The link between outer and inner is the breath

which, in an ordinary, healthy adult in a state of rest, has a cycle of 21,600

full breaths (inhalation+expiration+pause between) per 24 hours. This rate

belongs to what is known as the 'central pathway' and brings us to the inner

nature of secret time which has to do with the 'bindu', 'nadi' and 'prana/vayu'

aspects of subtle energy-movement. 'Bindu' is an almost impossible word to

translate adequately, but means (in this context) something along the lines

of 'seed-energy' or microscopic points of generative energy that are at the

same time the 'holders' and 'carriers' of becoming, as well as - on an

extremely subtle level - their source. 'Nadi' are the energy-paths - the energy-

configurations - along which these microscopic energies are moved, and

'prana/vayu' is the motility itself. These three are intimately related inasmuch

as each is actually only an aspect of the other, each presupposes the other.

The movement of the energy on this subtle plane is as follows:

10,800 belongs to the right and left channels

5,400 to the focal point of sexuality at the root of the central channel

2,700 to 'heart' focal point on the central channel

1,350 to the 'throat' focal point

675 to the 'crown' focal point

337.5 to the 'navel' focal point

Zodiac signs have a rate of 1,800 each which belongs to the four higher focal

points on the central channel, while all twelve have 1,800 apiece in the 12-

petalled 'focal point of varying delight at the root of the central channel.

Each petal branches off into five points with a rate of 360 each.

An extremely subtle and barely perceptible 'awareness-moyility' from the

central channel arises during the transit period and vibrates at the rate of

11.25 vibrations/24hrs. It's rate in the 12-petalled lotus is 56.25 and the

entire

rate for the central channel over a 24 hr. period is 675, as I say, *extremly*

subtle vibrations.

This just to give a rough idea of the inner aspect of secret time from the

Tibetan Buddhist point of view - I'd even say *one* of several Tibetan Buddhist

points of view (although this one seems to be pretty much one of the basics).

There are other ways of reading this in the Taoist, Hindu, Sufi, Qabalistic and

profoundly mystical Christian approaches, not to mention the ancient

approaches of Sumaria, Babylon and Egypt, and the 'non-canonical'

techniques of the Native Americans, Africans and other supposedly 'primitive'

peoples (would that our primitivity could hold so much as a candle to theirs!)

Very secret time has to do with the roots of the above movements in the

instant *before they are born*, utterly secret in the stillness beyond that, and

ultimate time in the time beyond the shell of conscious awareness no matter

how subtle - beginningless and endless time, the ultimate 'enlightened

nature' from which everything else stems as enlightened or misapprehended

display and which is, itself, devoid of any nature whatsoever.

This, at any rate, is my watered-down version of same. Forgive yet another

interminable tirade.

Lots of love,

m

[Guest guest]

Well that was a beautiful thing to read today to get away from the present

reality for a few minutes. I just wish it was still yesterday and we would

never have to endure the horror of today! But then there is tomorrow and

we still have " time " to make things better, but has anyone learned anthing

and what was it worth? The bottom line is that change is going to happen

and that is time's purpose to my thinking, (at least in the 3-D reality).

ne