Re: Shocking Terrorist Attacks on the US

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/01 12:27:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

dwatkins5@... writes:

<< I trust also that we

will not forget that cardinal rule of politics which says, reward your

friends and punish your enemies.

>>

We must be politically wise, but also morally and spiritually

wise--definitely not hasty, and not without compassion and intelligence.

C. , Ph.D.

ShamanicAR@...

[Guest guest]

>

> I can't remember anything like this ever happening before.

>

> fa

The last one was Pearl Harbor. This one may be even more devastating to

civilian life and to our economic/political institutions. We'll just have to

see what unfolds. Pray for us all fa. The world will never be the same

after this day. I hope and pray the counterreaction in not even worse!!

Greg

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[Guest guest]

Dear Greg, you wrote:

>

> The last one was Pearl Harbor. This one may be even more devastating to

> civilian life and to our economic/political institutions. We'll just have

to

> see what unfolds. Pray for us all fa. The world will never be the same

> after this day

Of course I will. Praying is all we can do. They are now evacuating parts of

London too (not where I am). We are shocked and horrified. Is this the

beginning of WWIII?

I have been afraid since the situation in Israel worsened last year - but I

never expected anything on this scale, and certainly not in America. We all

thought America invincible. The whole of the Western world looks to you for

protection. It is terrifying.

My heart goes out to the bereaved and injured - please G-d, let it be no-one

on here.

love, fa

[Guest guest]

Prayers are all that we have left....Many of us have lost loved ones

the moment NYC was hit.

Gwynne

[Guest guest]

<< We all

thought America invincible. The whole of the Western world looks to you for

protection. It is terrifying. >>

We know we are not invincible... we're visible, and not liked everywhere

(sometimes for appropriate reasons)... but the important thing for us, in

USA, is to be strong, not fearful, and to continue to maintain an open

society. We're open. That makes us targets.

It is important to maintain open, democratic institutions. Otherwise the bad

guys win. The mood I'm hearing is anger. And the question why? Why kill

innocent civilians. The targets are obvious symbols but they were full of

hard-working people.

My college in Boston closed today because we are in the shadow of the tallest

buildings in Boston. We will open tomorrow, however.

Yes, say prayers however you do that. And remember to pray for the wicked and

the unjust as well, that they may find peace that will take away their

ignorance and pain.

Em hotep,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

<< American are so unconscious its pathetic. >>

Not unconscious... other arrogant. complacent. many other things. but open,

you see. that makes us vulnerable.

Just watch New York pull itself up by its bootstraps. I've lived in that

great town and know it will behave in amazing ways.

phoebe

[Guest guest]

Gwynne Sonnen-Mayer wrote:

>

> Prayers are all that we have left....

Prayers are *not* all that we have left. To do nothing but fall on our

knees in prayer would show the most contemptible weakness. God helps

those who help themselves. We have tremendous economic, political and

military power, more than the world has heretofore known. This is an act

of war. I trust that we will respond accordingly. I trust also that we

will not forget that cardinal rule of politics which says, reward your

friends and punish your enemies.

Dan Watkins

[Guest guest]

shamanicar@... wrote:

>

> In a message dated 9/11/01 12:27:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> dwatkins5@... writes:

>

> << I trust also that we

> will not forget that cardinal rule of politics which says, reward your

> friends and punish your enemies.

> >>

>

> We must be politically wise, but also morally and spiritually

> wise--definitely not hasty, and not without compassion and intelligence.

>

>

>

A swift response will be required - I don't think that that is

necessarily the same thing as being hasty. I agree entirely about the

need for intelligence. If, on the other hand, " compassion " here means

compassion for the enemy, whoever he may turn out to be, I don't see the

need. Indeed, compassion may get in the way of doing what is needful. I

am so glad that we do not at present have a president who will " feel the

pain " of the terrorist; it is time now to inflict pain.

Jung writes that, outside of the confines of the particular community,

man is a wolf to man. It seems that he is once again perfectly correct,

as he almost always is. Let us, then, find the wolves within ourselves.

Regards,

Dan Watkins

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/11/01 6:13:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

cloudhand@... writes:

> > I am reeling. I never thought to see a world war.

> *Maybe you won't yet, but whatever it is is going to be a trifle 'tense'

no

> matter what happens.

> This is a moment, if ever there was one, to recall the four boundless

> thoughts:

Yes, and I would add this:

Daily Words of the Buddha

September 10, 2001

The worse of the two is he

who, when abused, retaliates.

One who does not retaliate

wins a battle hard to win.

Love,

Suzanne

[Guest guest]

> Turn on your TVs now - two hijacked 'planes have crashed into both

towers of

> the World Trade Centre, which are now on fire > I can't remember

anything like this ever happening before.

>

> fa

I just can't understand why it took so long to happen. I seen it

comming a long time ago but it took a long time for it to happen.

American are so unconscious its pathetic.

Malcolm

[Guest guest]

<< I am reeling. I never thought to see a world war. >>

You will not, fa, don't wish it into existence. This is a new paradigm.

Not armies marching, stinking, killing, other armies, but a handful of people

able to cause enormous pain and suffering attacking civilians. Attacking

ideas.

It is difficult to think there may be 40- 50,000 people killed in New York

City this day. I'm sure I've lost friends, even if I don't yet know who. Some

are missing.

Everyone I know here in US intends to go back to work tomorrow.

em hotep,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

<< Unconscious, yes because Americans and other Westerners provoked it

much like a little child teasing a dog and then cries his eyes out

because the dog bites him in the hand. >>

Not on this list will I respond.

lightly, lightly

Ma'at be my guide

phoebe

[Guest guest]

Nor I, pha -

All border crossings between Canada and the US are closed for the

first time since WWII. All planes from Canada to US are grounded and

international flights to the US are diverted into Toronto. This

afternoon my entire office block was evacuated (it's next door to the

US Consulate) as was all of the financial district of Toronto.

To our neighbours, you cannot imagine the sorrow and sadness here in

Canada today.

Frances

-- In JUNG-FIRE@y..., " fa " <josefa@k...> wrote:

> >

> All 'planes in the US are now being held on the ground.

>

> I can't remember anything like this ever happening before.

>

> fa

[Guest guest]

fa,

That is because you were not alive on December 7, 1941. What the future now has

in store for all of us is hazy. Depends on how many level headed people work in

the capitals of the world. The call is for blood as it is always in the history

of the human race. Wars beget retribution and its violence makes more wars.

The shock is too great. I cannot even think of all the survivors of the dead

and injured. G-d help us all.

Toni

fa wrote:

> Turn on your TVs now - two hijacked 'planes have crashed into both towers of

> the World Trade Centre, which are now on fire - and there is a new report

> that the Pentagon in Washington is also on fire, and the White House has

> been evacuated. Everyone is in shock. So far there are six fatalities and

> over 1,000 injured. The news over here is talking about symbolic attacks on

> the US. There have been rumours that the suicide bombers are from a

> Palestinian group (which would not surprise me) but this is very unsure. The

> attacks were exceptionally well organised.

>

> All 'planes in the US are now being held on the ground.

>

> I can't remember anything like this ever happening before.

>

> fa

>

[Guest guest]

>

> > -

> >

> > Unconscious, yes because Americans and other Westerners provoked

it

> > much like a little child teasing a dog and then cries his eyes out

> > because the dog bites him in the hand.

> >

[Guest guest]

timbers wrote:

> God, you guys are unconscious!

J: Timbers, please stop this. It doesn't help. We are all in shock, almost

certainly some people on the list will have lost loved ones. They are now

talking about a death toll of at least 20,000. We must not, as Toni and

Phoebe have already indicated, attack each other.

I am absolutely exhausted (it is 1 am here) but am waiting up for the

President's address. I am glad he came out of his bunker. His hiding did not

exactly inspire confidence. The Secretary of State was worrying as he seems

completely clueless, but the mayor of New York was inspiring. He seems to

embody the spirit of that great city.

I am sure that all of you who are physically able have given blood. Tony

Blair has pledged our 100% support. I am waiting to see if I will be called

upon to do anything. Although I confess to being terrified, I hope I will

not shirk my part in the fight against terrorism.

This makes way too many posts from me, but I'm sure Mike will be the first

to agree that the circumstances are exceptional.

fa

[Guest guest]

> Dear G*d,

> Please bring your Light

> Into the darkened corners

> Of our world today.

> May Divine Love

> Cast out all fear,

> And peace prevail on earth.

> Forgive us,

> Oh G*d,

> For our errors.

> Forgive others for theirs,

> As well.

> Please help us, G*d.

> Amen

>

> ~ nne on

>

I offer this, especially in the face of " let's get even " and " you asked

for it. "

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

<< running off and creating their colony with the sweat and

blood of the millions of afrikans. >>

well, not exactly. I'm from New England. Where emancipation started.

phoebe

[Guest guest]

<< your

own american citizens, the 'white trash', the latinos and blk

americans in jail who constitute 1.6 million of the population in

jail. the resignation that many of yr people feel.. now imagine, if

you can.what the other nations beyond ur jurisdiction feel and

encounter every single day.... can u do that? > >>

Yes. I can. But I wouldn't kill thousands of innocent people because I hurt.

not so lightly,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

>

> > God, you guys are unconscious!

>

> J: Timbers, please stop this. It doesn't help

[some cut]

> fa

Yes, your right. Consciousness of what provoked the problem in the

first place would spoil the game. One would normally assume that a

Jung forum would be about conscious awarness, though.

Malcolm

[Guest guest]

timbers@... wrote:

>

> >

> > > God, you guys are unconscious!

> >

> > J: Timbers, please stop this. It doesn't help

> [some cut]

> > fa

>

> Yes, your right. Consciousness of what provoked the problem in the

> first place would spoil the game. One would normally assume that a

> Jung forum would be about conscious awarness, though.

>

I wonder if a Jung forum might also be about what Jung actually said about

politics, nations, and war.

Watkins

[Guest guest]

dan watkins,

attitudes and words such as these.

is what has brought us to the pain we suffer now

violence never begets violence.

ur country originated from the folks

running off and creating their colony with the sweat and

blood of the millions of afrikans.

no no no..!!

i refuse to believe that peace cannot prevail

too much blood has been shed.

but then your country has always thrived

on the policy of brawn not brains.

[Guest guest]

> > Turn on your TVs now - two hijacked 'planes have crashed into

both

> towers of

> > the World Trade Centre, which are now on fire > I can't remember

> anything like this ever happening before.

> >

> > fa

>

> I just can't understand why it took so long to happen. I seen it

> comming a long time ago but it took a long time for it to happen.

>

> American are so unconscious its pathetic.

>

> Malcolm

i couldnot agree with you any less.

unfortunate thing are the casulties

but as the case of war.. as has been for the

longest time. there are those who are caught in the middle

with the US wedging its power and policies to

countries that are unable to ask. because

we 'need ' the aid, the monies that are dashed

to sustain livelihoods

in exchange for our very souls.

someone did say, stop.

question is.. can peace prevail?

but peace and love is such a re-volutionary process..

who will listen.

we are silent. with hope in our hearts

and tears in our eyes.

[Guest guest]

> There is enough violence going on. I am trying to stay calm as I

write this

> only because I am not sure of your meaning.

> It seems to me we should be careful as well before we point

fingers. I will

> wait to hear exactly what you meant. I saw no westerners or

Americans

> provoking anything that would need this kind of retaliations. What

are you

> referring to?

>

> Toni

>

< toni, i have long be-come unperturbed by the myopic view that

majority of amerikans see the world. perhaps the outcry and utter

disgust by the decision of amerikan delegate to walk out of the

unhcr's conference on racisim should have been indication enough that

many countries view the usa as bullies. bullies who need to get their

ears pinched and hands slapped.toni,people, countries are tired. your

own american citizens, the 'white trash', the latinos and blk

americans in jail who constitute 1.6 million of the population in

jail. the resignation that many of yr people feel.. now imagine, if

you can.what the other nations beyond ur jurisdiction feel and

encounter every single day.... can u do that? >

[Guest guest]

>

> > God, you guys are unconscious!

>

> J: Timbers, please stop this. It doesn't help. We are all in shock,

almost

> certainly some people on the list will have lost loved ones. They

are now

> talking about a death toll of at least 20,000. We must not, as Toni

and

> Phoebe have already indicated, attack each other.

(josefa, in all honesty, i dont think we are 'attacking' each other.

stating things as.i could indulge you perhaps on the pain that over

200 kenyans died in the bomb-blast in nairobi, on august 7th.

remember that.. dont think so. didnt get much coverage therafter..we

are stating things are. there is too much blood that has been shed

for the $,the frills,the opulence of capitalisim...violence never

begets violence. we need to ask what is the ontology of this violence

and what we can do to stop it..otherwise, all is futile..the hopes of

mahatma,malcom x, martin luther king, patrice lumumba, the mother

down the street whose desire is to educate her children. will be just

that.. a dream }

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