Re: Fluconazole and Migraine and Lyme

[Guest guest]

The migraines I experienced after each of 5 200mg doses of

Fluconazole were the most extreme I've ever had, and I've had other

migraines so intense they made me vomit.

I did not realize the headache side effect was listed for

Fluconazole as present in 2% of patients. When you have my luck, 2%

is enough to give you pause.

My migraines, some here believe, were 'herx'. Schardt says

flatly " fluconazole inhibits but does not kill spirochetes. " No dead

spirochetes, no herx. So he would have to be wrong.

In vitro studies show spirochetes suffer no adverse effect from

contact with fluconazole. That's a bit of a hurdle, it seems to me,

for those who claim the efficacy of fluconazole against neuroLyme

has now been established.

But if 20 neuro-Lyme patients do something and a majority feel

better, that's worth a second look. I am entirely prepared -

actually hoping - to have my doubts put down by some new and more

coherent explanation of how Fluconazole can assist in the battle

against borreliosis.

> > > I know I keep harping on the fact that minerals should be

taken

> > > together and in the right ratios- so I'll keep harping.

> > >

> > > The bioavaiabilty of all the elements depends on the form and

it

> > > depends on the status of other minerals. Dose and form will

> affect

> > > the bowel intolerance levels (that's when Mg is used as a

> > laxative).

> > >

> > > The body will also substitute one element for another if one

> > > is in short supply... then reset the body.

> > >

> > > Most people are deficient in magnesium because it's just not

in

> > the

> > > food supply any more at the levels it used to be and it's not

in

> > the

> > > (electrolyte) replacement drinks. If it alleviates

> muscletwitching-

> >

> > > then you can be sure you need to supplement. But I wouldn't

just

> > > take it alone. Are you sure there's not something else in

your

> IV

> > > too?

> > >

> > > Barb

> > >

> > Hi Barb

> >

> > I had been thinking a lot about bioavailabilty of our

supplements

> so

> > I have decided for the most part to get my minerals in the form

of

> > the green foods that are in Garden of Life's Perfect Food. In

> > addition I do take extra magnesium citrate from time to time if

my

> > muscles seem particularly affected and I also have to add in

extra

> > sea salt because of my weak adrenals. Its nearly a month I have

> > been taking 2 tsp x 2 daily of the Perfect Food in addition to

> > Thorne's whey protein with lactoferrin.

> >

> > I also take extra Bs and Vitamin C plus a good quality Cod Liver

> Oil

> > and these all seem to be working well, my energy has been

> > excellent. The only problem I get is from the flucanazole

blocking

> > the Prednisolone I take so I have found that I have to take

extra

> > hydrocortisone to compensate for this. I have had some of the

best

> > days I have had in years but they will often be followed by some

> > severe migraines which I guess is a side effect of the

> flucanazole.

> > At the moment I can only tolerate 75mg flucanazole daily or even

> > every other day on some occasions.

> >

> > Pam

[Guest guest]

, you observe "Fluconazole inhibits but does not kill spirochetes." No dead spirochetes, no herx. That must be right, but are you just treating ketes? your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because when treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very powerful fungicidal action to me ...

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of SchaafsmaSent: 05 June 2005 20:04infections Subject: [infections] Re: Fluconazole and Migraine and LymeThe migraines I experienced after each of 5 200mg doses of Fluconazole were the most extreme I've ever had, and I've had other migraines so intense they made me vomit. I did not realize the headache side effect was listed for Fluconazole as present in 2% of patients. When you have my luck, 2% is enough to give you pause.My migraines, some here believe, were 'herx'. Schardt says flatly "fluconazole inhibits but does not kill spirochetes." No dead spirochetes, no herx. So he would have to be wrong. In vitro studies show spirochetes suffer no adverse effect from contact with fluconazole. That's a bit of a hurdle, it seems to me, for those who claim the efficacy of fluconazole against neuroLyme has now been established. But if 20 neuro-Lyme patients do something and a majority feel better, that's worth a second look. I am entirely prepared - actually hoping - to have my doubts put down by some new and more coherent explanation of how Fluconazole can assist in the battle against borreliosis.> > > I know I keep harping on the fact that minerals should be taken > > > together and in the right ratios- so I'll keep harping.> > > > > > The bioavaiabilty of all the elements depends on the form and it > > > depends on the status of other minerals. Dose and form will > affect > > > the bowel intolerance levels (that's when Mg is used as a > > laxative).> > > > > > The body will also substitute one element for another if one> > > is in short supply... then reset the body.> > > > > > Most people are deficient in magnesium because it's just not in > > the > > > food supply any more at the levels it used to be and it's not in > > the > > > (electrolyte) replacement drinks. If it alleviates > muscletwitching-> > > > > then you can be sure you need to supplement. But I wouldn't just > > > take it alone. Are you sure there's not something else in your > IV > > > too?> > > > > > Barb> > > > > Hi Barb> > > > I had been thinking a lot about bioavailabilty of our supplements > so > > I have decided for the most part to get my minerals in the form of > > the green foods that are in Garden of Life's Perfect Food. In > > addition I do take extra magnesium citrate from time to time if my > > muscles seem particularly affected and I also have to add in extra > > sea salt because of my weak adrenals. Its nearly a month I have > > been taking 2 tsp x 2 daily of the Perfect Food in addition to > > Thorne's whey protein with lactoferrin.> > > > I also take extra Bs and Vitamin C plus a good quality Cod Liver > Oil > > and these all seem to be working well, my energy has been > > excellent. The only problem I get is from the flucanazole blocking > > the Prednisolone I take so I have found that I have to take extra > > hydrocortisone to compensate for this. I have had some of the best > > days I have had in years but they will often be followed by some > > severe migraines which I guess is a side effect of the > flucanazole. > > At the moment I can only tolerate 75mg flucanazole daily or even > > every other day on some occasions.> > > > Pam

[Guest guest]

I was kind of thinking the same thing, . I have friends who've

found a lot of their symptoms are actually caused by the fungal

overgrowth, even though they also have raging infections. One person

actually has puss oozing through some invisible hole into her mouth

all the time. That's enough to make anyone sick, but she's found a

number of times, that treating the candida makes a lot of her

PID/gastro and neuro symptoms go away, if not the bone infection

itself.

's migraines or the migraines in the 2% could perhaps be due to

there being so much fungus, causing a major die-off. ???

penny

" Jaep " <Jaep@L...> wrote:

That must be right, but are you just treating ketes?

> your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is

classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because when

treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose

of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very

powerful fungicidal action to me

[Guest guest]

Yes, AF's are effective...I might say in too many cases to dismiss an incidental involvement of fungi ...I do think fungi & ketes are bedfellows....you contract one you get the other free!!!...It also may be that certain abx's could treat both & visa versa certain A/F's could treat the ketes.... I also think that the gut is the seat of infection for both....

Your observation that we become resistant to probiotics is very telling ...it must be so!!... our gut flora is very stable believe it or not ..if we responded to probiotics the way the sellers would have us believe ,that is they are colony forming that if taken long enough would repopulate the gut . Then our gut flora would be in a permanent state of flux!! ...Our unique smell we omit derives from our stable gut flora ..in fact one of the symptoms of a systemic yeast infection is a change in body odour..... we introduce new bugs continuously ... how the body recognises guest bugs as non self is a clue to how we become infected by "stealth" Pathogens.. we impart a recognition code to our resident flora ..the stealth bugs highjack this neat trick and adopt a coat of proteins that mimic self ..hence the ineffective immune response...New research has revealed the Malaria parasite uses the same trick...The thing is once the scientists discovered this they quickly engineered a bacteria to attach to the parasite and counter the effect of the camouflage...it seems a cure could be on the cards for us ..that is if they recognised the scale of the problem & mustered resources to fight it...

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of penny Sent: 06 June 2005 14:47infections Subject: [infections] Re: Fluconazole and Migraine and LymeI was kind of thinking the same thing, . I have friends who've found a lot of their symptoms are actually caused by the fungal overgrowth, even though they also have raging infections. One person actually has puss oozing through some invisible hole into her mouth all the time. That's enough to make anyone sick, but she's found a number of times, that treating the candida makes a lot of her PID/gastro and neuro symptoms go away, if not the bone infection itself. 's migraines or the migraines in the 2% could perhaps be due to there being so much fungus, causing a major die-off. ???penny" Jaep" <Jaep@L...> wrote:That must be right, but are you just treating ketes?> your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because when treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very powerful fungicidal action to me

[Guest guest]

Not quite correct the , bacteria targeting the protein coating it was another protein ,still same principle , The information came from the latest from Horizon ,screened last night here's an extract and if you want the full transcript to read it's at http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/malaria_trans.shtml It also tells of how effective Artemisinin is against Malaria.. I wonder..

Dr RIPLEY BALLOU: In virtually every infectious disease for which there is a vaccine, vaccination has shown itself to be the most cost effective way of disease control. And it would, if it's true for the rest of the infectious diseases it's going to be true for malaria as well.

NARRATOR: All previous attempts of a malaria vaccine have ended in failure. And some believe the parasite is so sophisticated that a vaccine will never be possible. But now Ripley Ballou and his team are trying a new approach. Using the latest biotechnology they set out to try and discover the key to the parasites success. They realise that its greatest weapon was its incredible ability to evade the human immune system. And as they looked closer they found that its surface was covered in a special protein that acted as a kind of camouflage. This surface protein meant the immune system failed to recognise the parasite as an intruder, leaving it free to do its deadly work.

Dr RIPLEY BALLOU: So the protein on the surface of the parasite actually works as a decoy to the immune system. And that's been part of the key to solving the problem.

NARRATOR: It was a crucial breakthrough, because it opened up an entirely new approach. Instead of creating a vaccine against the whole parasite, they made one that targeted just the surface protein. To see whether it worked they used themselves as guinea pigs.

Dr RIPLEY BALLOU: We took mosquitoes, infected them with malaria and let them bite us. And to see if we would in fact develop malaria. And there were about eight of us in the group that volunteered to do this. I unfortunately was not protected and did develop malaria but one of my good friends, one of my colleagues, was completely protected from malaria. And that was, as they say, the talking bear, it was a fantastic observation that in fact this could be done.

NARRATOR: Although the principle had been proven the vaccine was far from perfect. In seven of the volunteers it had failed to provide any protection. They realised they had to find a better way of targeting the surface protein. Eventually they came up with an ingenious solution.

Dr RIPLEY BALLOU: Well after a lot of trial and error we came upon the idea of hooking the malaria protein to another protein that we knew in itself was a good vaccine.

NARRATOR: This new vaccine would combine the malaria surface protein with another protein that the immune system would recognise. This would re-programme the body's immune system to treat the malaria protein as an infection. When the body next saw the surface protein on the parasite it would now recognise it. The immune system would now be alerted to the presence of the parasite and destroy it. When they tried it in the lab it seemed to work. So they decided to put it to the test. Last year a full scale trial of this vaccine was carried out in Mozambique. The aim was to test the vaccine in those who were most at risk from malaria, children.

Dr MELINDA MOREE (Malaria Vaccine Initiative): In Mozambique one in five children doesn't live to see their fifth birthday. Malaria's the number one killer. So while there are hundreds of millions of cases of malaria around the world in people who suffer from that, death predominantly ninety percent of the deaths happen in kids under five. So what we're really looking to do is not necessarily with our first vaccine to wipe out malaria, but really to stop these kids from getting so sick and dying.

NARRATOR: Over a period of six months the vaccinated children were checked to see who had developed malaria. The results were reported in the press as a triumph. But a look behind the headlines showed a more complicated picture. In fact only thirty percent of the children were completely protected from getting malaria. The results were better when it came to the most severe life threatening forms of the disease. Here the protection was nearly sixty percent. So whilst the vaccine wasn't very good at stopping children catching malaria, it was much more effective at stopping the disease progressing in to a form that might kill them.

Dr MELINDA MOREE: So that to us while may be not perfection was really significant. Because you think about that, that means over half the kids would have had severe malaria didn't have it, and that's a pretty significant finding.

NARRATOR: A vaccine that gives full protection against malaria is still some way off, but it's no longer seen as impossible. More than a dozen teams around the world are now chasing this great prize.

Dr MELINDA MOREE: Does that mean we have a vaccine today? No. But it means that we're absolutely sure that it is possible, we just need to figure out the timing part of it.

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of penny Sent: 06 June 2005 14:47infections Subject: [infections] Re: Fluconazole and Migraine and LymeI was kind of thinking the same thing, . I have friends who've found a lot of their symptoms are actually caused by the fungal overgrowth, even though they also have raging infections. One person actually has puss oozing through some invisible hole into her mouth all the time. That's enough to make anyone sick, but she's found a number of times, that treating the candida makes a lot of her PID/gastro and neuro symptoms go away, if not the bone infection itself. 's migraines or the migraines in the 2% could perhaps be due to there being so much fungus, causing a major die-off. ???penny" Jaep" <Jaep@L...> wrote:That must be right, but are you just treating ketes?> your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because when treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very powerful fungicidal action to me

[Guest guest]

:

Although they use the word Artemisinin - the drug really is

b-artemether or artesunate.. which is not the same as the herb

(artemisinin). This is where confusion lies- comparing the herb to

the drug.

If you do a literature search, you'll find that there are many

trails using the drugs derivated from theplant, and they have a very

high sucess rate on tems of thousands of malria victims. Problem is

that even at $1.00 per dose it's too expensive for them. The

Bill/Melinda Gates foundation has donated 2M to make a cheaper

synthetic version, and that effort is under way.

It's amazing that whats going on in the rest of the world (for

Malaria) is not even talked about here- unless it's in the research

area. I guess it's because the USA doen't have a problem with

Malaria.

Barb

> That must be right, but are you just treating ketes?

> > your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is

> classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because

when

> treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose

> of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very

> powerful fungicidal action to me

>

>

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

--------

> --

>

[Guest guest]

It was the herb actually Barb ..the us military ,once they got scent of the properties of the herb went on a search for it...They found it on a banks of a river that was flowing though Washington....Large scale production of the herb was hampered by a number of factors, hence the work to find a synthetic version ...It's a big problem for the US military ..more soldiers die from malaria than from hostile fire in tropical battlefields , in this era that is where most of them are

-----Original Message-----From: infections [mailto:infections ]On Behalf Of Barb PeckSent: 06 June 2005 19:13infections Subject: [infections] Re: Fluconazole and Migraine and Lyme:Although they use the word Artemisinin - the drug really is b-artemether or artesunate.. which is not the same as the herb (artemisinin). This is where confusion lies- comparing the herb to the drug. If you do a literature search, you'll find that there are many trails using the drugs derivated from theplant, and they have a very high sucess rate on tems of thousands of malria victims. Problem is that even at $1.00 per dose it's too expensive for them. The Bill/Melinda Gates foundation has donated 2M to make a cheaper synthetic version, and that effort is under way. It's amazing that whats going on in the rest of the world (for Malaria) is not even talked about here- unless it's in the research area. I guess it's because the USA doen't have a problem with Malaria.Barb> That must be right, but are you just treating ketes?> > your Fungal infection looks favourite to me ...Fluconazole is> classed as a fugistatic not fungicidal..that's strange because when> treating a vaginal yeast overgrowth normally it takes just on dose> of 150mg to eradicate the infection ...that sounds like a very> powerful fungicidal action to me> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------> -->