Re: Al, Rich - SPECT Scans & Cardiac Link?

[Guest guest]

>

> >

> Al, I didnt know Goldstein had shown hypoperfusion via SPECT - thats

> very interesting. Do you know why this finding didnt silence the

> psychologizing school of CFS/ME? Do you know of any non-needle

> histology on CFS/ME or chronic borreliosis? >

>

>

Hi ,

Don't know why the Spect Scan did not silence psycho theories of CFS.

Dr. Goldstein did not want to reveal why Dr. Ismael Mena who did his

SPECT scans at Harbor UCLA in Torrance,CA was canned. He was in charge

of the SPECT scanning. Must have been something political.

Al

[Guest guest]

You need to be more specific in your discussion of brain SPECT

scans -- it is not an all or none, normal/abnormal sort of test.

SPECT cannot discriminate between etiologies of perfusion

abnormalities, nor can SPECT be used to discriminate among certain

diseases (for ex., the sort of abnormalities seen in neuro-Bb are

also seen in vasculitis and lupus).

Different patterns are seens with different disease processes. Not

having seen the paper looking at SPECT in CFS, one reason such

findings may not have " done away with the psych explanation " is that

depression and bipolar patients also oftentimes show SPECT

abnormalities, so the question becomes what was precisely the

pattern seen in CFS patients? Indeed, without the data, we cannot

know if it was similar to certain psych disorders or to other non-

psych disorders. The pattern of the abnormalities is quite

important in using brain SPECT scans.

> >

> > >

> > Al, I didnt know Goldstein had shown hypoperfusion via SPECT -

thats

> > very interesting. Do you know why this finding didnt silence the

> > psychologizing school of CFS/ME? Do you know of any non-needle

> > histology on CFS/ME or chronic borreliosis? >

> >

> >

>

> Hi ,

>

> Don't know why the Spect Scan did not silence psycho theories of

CFS.

> Dr. Goldstein did not want to reveal why Dr. Ismael Mena who did

his

> SPECT scans at Harbor UCLA in Torrance,CA was canned. He was in

charge

> of the SPECT scanning. Must have been something political.

>

> Al

[Guest guest]

I believe there is a Dr. Ryle in Carmichael, CA who

subscribes to the vasculitis theory. I think he was

one of the first Docs in US to study CFS.

Marie

--- Hodologica <usenethod@...> wrote:

>

> I feel vasculitis should be another leading suspect.

> This could cause

> poor perfusion in the brain. And, as Cheney

> brainstorms, it could

> self-intensify, if poor perfusion of the heart were

> itself to

> compromise heart function and thence circulation, in

> a vicous cycle.

>

> Microvasculitis impacts perfusion by simply

> deforming/narrowing the

> capillaries. Endothelial (vessel wall) cells swell

> and reproduce

> abnormally. This has the potential to completely

> stagnate the capillary.

>

> Vasculitis and perivasculitis are the most

> ubiquitous lesions of

> syphilis. Vasculitis has also been found often in

> lyme in many cases.

> (I dont know for sure of any whole tissue histology

> of lyme; if there

> were any I wonder if vasculitis *might* be found to

> in fact feature in

> every case. I get a vague sense that histology of

> needle biopsy

> samples may not be as good as autopsy in some ways,

> but I am

> uncertain. I do not remember whether all the lyme

> histology I know of

> is on needle-biopsy material).

>

> Al, I didnt know Goldstein had shown hypoperfusion

> via SPECT - thats

> very interesting. Do you know why this finding didnt

> silence the

> psychologizing school of CFS/ME? Do you know of any

> non-needle

> histology on CFS/ME or chronic borreliosis? I have

> looked a bit but

> found little. The only CFS histology I found was

> muscle biopsies where

> myocytes (muscle cells) were primarily examined. One

> would think the

> investigators would have noticed any vasculitis if

> present but who

> knows. Rich, you really know CFS literature so

> perhaps you have some

> insight?

>

>

> >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > The SPECT Brain Scans that were done in the

> early 90's by Jay

> > Goldstein & others on CFS patients showed

> > > Hypoperfusion (Low Blood Flow).

> > >

> > > As a result of the Peckerman study, Dr. Cheney

> says the result of

> > the low cardiac output in CFS is poor

> micro-circulation . It would

> > appear that this is what caused the

> Hypoperfusion in the SPECT

> > Scans. Right ?

> > >

> > >

> > > Al

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

No, I don't know of histologic studies in CFS, other than the muscle

ones. I think it might be hard to get volunteers for brain biopsies!

I do know that Dr. Byron Hyde in Canada is convinced from his

routine use of high resolution SPECT scanning on all his patients

that M.E. patients are suffering from vasculitis. He hasn't

published anything on this, as far as I know, and I don't know

enough about SPECT myself to know whether one can be sure that

vasculitis is present from SPECT scans alone. You can read my

review of his talk in Wisconsin last October at this site:

http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/AACFS04Hyde.htm

Rich

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > The SPECT Brain Scans that were done in the early 90's by

Jay

> > Goldstein & others on CFS patients showed

> > > Hypoperfusion (Low Blood Flow).

> > >

> > > As a result of the Peckerman study, Dr. Cheney says the result

of

> > the low cardiac output in CFS is poor micro-circulation . It

would

> > appear that this is what caused the Hypoperfusion in the SPECT

> > Scans. Right ?

> > >

> > >

> > > Al

[Guest guest]

Thank you kindly Rich. I'm very grateful for your knowledge of the

lit, and all that you do.

> I think it might be hard to get volunteers for brain biopsies!

Indeed! But its surprising there havent been any autopsies(?)! There

havent been any in chronic lyme either, despite the controversy over

that clinical entity.

I've just ordered Hydes book, so it will be on my reading list -

along with your paper, which hopefully I can understand well now that

I'm learning chem.

<richvank@a...> wrote:

> Hi, .

>

> No, I don't know of histologic studies in CFS, other than the

muscle

> ones. I think it might be hard to get volunteers for brain

biopsies!

>

> I do know that Dr. Byron Hyde in Canada is convinced from his

> routine use of high resolution SPECT scanning on all his patients

> that M.E. patients are suffering from vasculitis. He hasn't

> published anything on this, as far as I know, and I don't know

> enough about SPECT myself to know whether one can be sure that

> vasculitis is present from SPECT scans alone. You can read my

> review of his talk in Wisconsin last October at this site:

>

> http://www.phoenix-cfs.org/AACFS04Hyde.htm

>

> Rich

>