Re: blood concentration levels of Abx

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/1/05 4:04:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, usenethod@... writes:

I believe that certain drugs can be measured easier than others and that on some antibiotics they do concentration levels. They also do concentration levels on many of the antidepressants. I have a friend whose infectious Disease Doc does levels on many of his patients to see if they are taking their prescribed antibiotics for LYME and if he needs to increase or decrease the amounts. Carol

All I know is Burruscano (sp?) refers to it being done, so it must definitely be out there...barb@c...> wrote:> My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???> > Thx.

[Guest guest]

All I know is Burruscano (sp?) refers to it being done, so it must

definitely be out there...

barb@c...> wrote:

> My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on

> (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

>

> Thx.

[Guest guest]

I KNOW it is out there, that isn't the Q unfortunately. I need to

find a lab that actually does it. So far have struck out with local

hospital, relatively local BIG hospital, a national reference lab,

state medical school and one of the big Boston hospitals. Thus, the

need for an actual name... Thanks for the encouragement .

> > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on

> > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> >

> > Thx.

[Guest guest]

Who is doc and WHERE are the levels done -- what lab/hosp/med

school? thx.

> > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on

> > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> >

> > Thx.

[Guest guest]

Can't you have your doc call Burrascano?

penny

> I KNOW it is out there, that isn't the Q unfortunately. I need to

> find a lab that actually does it. So far have struck out with local

> hospital, relatively local BIG hospital, a national reference lab,

> state medical school and one of the big Boston hospitals. Thus, the

> need for an actual name... Thanks for the encouragement .

>

>

[Guest guest]

I asked one of my Lyme friends who's Doc did this for her.

One time it was for Amoxy and the other for Doxy.

Her Doc is in S. NY

and she she the lab was QUEST. After a steady state dose is reached-

the bood is drawn at some specific time (like 1 hr after a dose - or

what ever) depending on the abx.

I bet you could call QUEST, and they could tell you the name of the

test and their code numbers for the correct test. They have labs

everywhere.

Barb

> My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on

> (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

>

> Thx.

[Guest guest]

Hey, thanks Barb. Actually, that was one of the first places I

called. No dice on the mino & zith... thus the quandry.

> > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am on

> > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> >

> > Thx.

[Guest guest]

In the case of Zith- it may be because blood levels don't correlate

with tissue levels at all - Zith accumulates in the tissues - so for

a normal 5 day course (Z-Pak)just that amountis not out of the body

for at least 10 days after you stop taking it... and the tissue

penetration/level of Mino is highly variable (individual) .

Sounds like if Quest and Lapcorp don't have the tests, no one will.

Barb

> > > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that will

> > > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I am

on

> > > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> > > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> > >

> > > Thx.

[Guest guest]

We figured since these data were available in the literature and in

every PDR, there is SOME way to measure them...that's even why we

checked with the state med school...bastion of research, right? I

know zith in particular has a low tissue/serum concentration

correlation, but we wanted to be sure I was at least getting the

levels listed in the lit. We're thinking of trying a transdermal

version of each med which has an even greater degree of absorption

variability, thus the need.

On a side note, I do wonder about my mino absorption (haven't

started the zith yet). I'm up to 150 mg/day and I usually am

annihilated by Abx. I'm definitely getting an increase in a few

symptoms, but not the degree to which I have with other meds. Given

my prior experiences and that of many folks on mino, I'm a little

surprised.

Thanks for your help & info in all regards on this issue Barb.

> > > > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that

will

> > > > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I

am

> on

> > > > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had serum

> > > > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> > > >

> > > > Thx.

[Guest guest]

I didn't take Mino untill I was well into my Lyme therapy.

And now I can take 200 to 300mg

per day as a monotherapy without

(drug or symptom exacerbation).

But.. if I combine Mino with Bactrim or HCQ I had to lower the dose

to 100 one day, then 200 the next, and so on.

I did Mino ( ~ 200mg) and Zith (~ 250mg)- but within 3 days my free

bilirubin went from normal 0.75 to just over the high

limit 1.3 (I was 1.4). I was base lined before I started.. so I

stopped the zith, only taking it for 5 days. And I haven't tried

that combo since... so don't know if I could tolerate Zith now with

Mino or not.

I was suspicious, because all of a sudden I was conscious of my

liver (or gall bladder).. and call my Doc right away.. and lo and

behold

a few days later I had sand colored faeces.. so my bile was sludged

up and not flowing correctly.. so I think I have a problem with ZIth

metabolism (it's cleared thru the bilary system).

Interesting that you can tolerate Mino now.

That's good- because I think Mino's a good abx... gets alot of

different bugs (and has antiinflammatory qualities).

Barb

> > > > > My doc and I are striking out on finding laboratories that

> will

> > > > > measure the blood/serum concentration of the antibiotics I

> am

> > on

> > > > > (minocycline, azithromycin). Has anyone out there had

serum

> > > > > concentration levels measured, and if so WHERE???

> > > > >

> > > > > Thx.

[Guest guest]

Barb:

What does this mean ?

Barb Peck wrote:

> I did Mino ( ~ 200mg) and Zith (~ 250mg)- but within 3 days my free

> bilirubin went from normal 0.75 to just over the high

> limit 1.3 (I was 1.4).

--

Per Sjöholm

Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

I don't know where the rest of my post is, but I basically expained

it there..

but basically, it means that I don't metabolize/clear Zith

correctly, and it sludged up the bile,

causing the bilirubin amounts in the blood to rise too high.

Barb

> > I did Mino ( ~ 200mg) and Zith (~ 250mg)- but within 3 days my

free

> > bilirubin went from normal 0.75 to just over the high

> > limit 1.3 (I was 1.4).

>

> --

> Per Sjöholm

> Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Or.... are you asking what a tilde is?

That's the symbol ~ which is shorthand for approximately.

Barb

> > I did Mino ( ~ 200mg) and Zith (~ 250mg)- but within 3 days my

free

> > bilirubin went from normal 0.75 to just over the high

> > limit 1.3 (I was 1.4).

>

> --

> Per Sjöholm

> Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

My question is how to interprete bilirubin

How does it work?

Where can I learn more ?

I have value a value in upper range

/Per

Barb Peck wrote:

> I don't know where the rest of my post is, but I basically expained

> it there..

> but basically, it means that I don't metabolize/clear Zith

> correctly, and it sludged up the bile,

> causing the bilirubin amounts in the blood to rise too high.

>

> Barb

>

>

>>>I did Mino ( ~ 200mg) and Zith (~ 250mg)- but within 3 days my

> free

>>>bilirubin went from normal 0.75 to just over the high

>>>limit 1.3 (I was 1.4).

--

Per Sjöholm

Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Interesting that nobody talks about bromelain on this list, which causes

antibiotics to penetrate better. I found at a certain dose I would not herx

without the bromelain, but would definitely herx with it.

Doris

[Guest guest]

Bromalein which is often included in pre-digestive enzymes is a great

idea. I take a system enzyme for the system and pre-digestive enzymes

with food and also with my pills. I figured that if the predigestive

enzymes help us absorb the nutrients in our food better, then

wouldn't it make sense to make the system more agreeable for our

daily regiment of supplements and prescription? Or is this just my

diseased brain trying to maintain some kind of logic, even if it is

diseased induced in my case ..??

There are many books and research regarding the benefits of enzymes.

thank you doris,

Peg

- In infections , " Doris Brown "

<dorisbrown9@y...> wrote:

> Interesting that nobody talks about bromelain on this list, which

causes

> antibiotics to penetrate better. I found at a certain dose I would

not herx

> without the bromelain, but would definitely herx with it.

> Doris

[Guest guest]

Doris:

Maybe you're a new member, but we have exstensively talked about the

substances (bromelian is one) that inteact with outher substances

utilizing the P450 enzyme system (which metabolized many substances

including drugs). Bromelain inteacts with many substances.

Barb

> Interesting that nobody talks about bromelain on this list, which

causes

> antibiotics to penetrate better. I found at a certain dose I would

not herx

> without the bromelain, but would definitely herx with it.

> Doris

[Guest guest]

Excellent! Just want to make sure people know about it, since I hadn't seen

it mentioned in the posts I read.

Doris

----- Original Message -----

From: " Barb Peck " <egroups1bp@...>

> Maybe you're a new member, but we have exstensively talked about the

> substances (bromelian is one) that inteact with outher substances

> utilizing the P450 enzyme system (which metabolized many substances

> including drugs). Bromelain inteacts with many substances.