Significant finding - Live Oral Bacteria Found In Arterial Plaque

[Guest guest]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Penny

This is an important topic because generally in autoimmune land

people's circulation is at the front line of taking a hiding.

tony

-- In infections , " penny "

<pennyhoule@y...> wrote:

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

I havent read this paper but it might interest yall:

Lancet. 1986 Jul 12;2(8498):75-7.

Is multiple sclerosis caused by an oral spirochaete?

Gay D, Dick G.

Evidence of a direct link between chronic sinusitis and multiple

sclerosis (MS) prompted examination of the old " spirochaetal

hypothesis " . This hypothesis has not been shown to be erroneous and a

spirochaetal infection of the central nervous system could explain the

specific pathological, immunological, and epidemiological features of MS.

PMID: 2873382 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

<usenethod@y...> wrote:> Is multiple sclerosis caused by an oral

spirochaete?

I'd buy this theory way before most of the " autoimmune " stuff that's

dished to us. I think sinus and oral bugs are driving many of our

illnesses, and unfortunately, the inflammation and the bugs

themselves, especially actinomyices, eats right through the sinus

walls and the jaw and vice versa. " Worm holes " develop between the

sinuses and the teeth. Both the sinuses and the bone become

necrotic, allowing bugs to spread into other sensitive regions. I'm

convinced that most hashimoto's thryoid disease (autoimmune) is

caused by bacterial infection. If oral bacteria can harden your

arteries and affect your heart, no reason it can't affect other

organs and glands that are even closer. :-(

I look back over my life at the progression of my illness, and it's

like a road map. It's started in my sinuses, down through my neck

(stiff since childhood), then the migraines, then the brainfog, then

the thryoid, then a painful upper back, now my shoulders and arms.

Not that it hasn't affected other areas as well both directly and

indirectly (i.e. my heart, IBS - gone now, thankfully). But it's

really interesting that with some perspective, slowly, from top to

bottom, my body's being overtaken - kind of like it's being

fossilized. I feel like a sci-fi movie.

penny

> I havent read this paper but it might interest yall:

>

>

> Lancet. 1986 Jul 12;2(8498):75-7.

>

> Is multiple sclerosis caused by an oral spirochaete?

>

> Gay D, Dick G.

>

> Evidence of a direct link between chronic sinusitis and multiple

> sclerosis (MS) prompted examination of the old " spirochaetal

> hypothesis " . This hypothesis has not been shown to be erroneous

and a

> spirochaetal infection of the central nervous system could explain

the

> specific pathological, immunological, and epidemiological features

of MS.

>

> PMID: 2873382 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Guest guest]

Tony, I've known you a long time, and I'm not at all sure what

you're saying here. That there's poor blood flow to the region?

Like Jelly, I also believe that a lack of blood flow is a huge

factor in our illness as well (along with hypercoagulation). Like

you say, the ambulance (immune system) can't get to the wreck

(infection). It's especially a problem in this region, because

there's little blood flow there to begin with.

Also, those of us who've really gone in and opened up these areas

surgically, had lots of scans done, etc., know that it's pretty rare

that your sinuses can be affected without there being oral/dental

involvement and vice versa. As you say, the roofs of the mouths of a

lot of pwc, are rotting away. Those with osteomyelitis are slowly

losing their jaws, and the sinus walls are rotting through. :-(

So increasing blood flow to help the immune system, increasing

alkalinity in the cells to weaken the bugs, knocking down

inflammation, and choosing the right antimicrobials, --all that

combined, should give us a chance at hitting the bugs where they

live. Hard to believe such little organisms require such a massive

effort.

penny

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

I'm just pointing out tht a lot of effort goes inot talking

pathogens and the body has all these problems- vascularity being a

major issue in ilness. Our skin the largest organ is not flowing

well at all in most PWC's. this is why I ask how you sweat.This is

microcirculation that I believe is not circulating.

You can virtually create auto immune ilness in anyone by painting

there skin. Once the natural flows are tampered with gases/toxins

are being locked in and the person that's been painted tip to toe

will start to get ill.

So, many have very poor circulation thru diseased skin, and poor

vascularity. Tamper with a healthy person and you can create

autoimmune like ilness very easily. and actually more focus after a

year or so and 3000 posts should be discussing other facets of ill

hrealth. Actually not many come on here and post about there I and R

blood thickness issue's. This is what ticked me off last time when I

asked how succesfully people got there blood thinner with so called

home recipe's. I got yelled at because your supposed to go off and

take this for 6 months and just expect it to be working.

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Penny

I was thinking it was great to bring up a topic on arteries and

veins and the outcomes of being diseased. I think there attempts to

grow bacteria are STUUUUPID. I feelcomfortable that if you took

plague and placed it in culture media you'd grow bugs.The way labs

are structured/programmed and discard bacteria is scary. They

virtually use the contamination theory tooooo often, so they base

testing on doing things that avoid growing garden variety bacteria

commonly found on skin.contamination is so easily overriden by doing

species ID's. and antimicrobial patterns. You virtually know a

bacteria is part of somones anatomy because your so called

contaminant bug should be familiar to the lab person.

tony

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

My dentist explained plaque to me a long time ago.

It's like a palace for the microbes.

Here's a site for you guys:

There's many species of bacteria that can live in plaque.

http://www.dent.ucla.edu/pic/members/microbio/mdphome.html

I'm not sure that everyone understands just how prevalent bacteria

(and yeasts are).. They populate the earth just like we do, and

there's more of them.

Ever seen natural unprotected wood siding on a house as it weathers,

turns grey then black? That's the work of fungi. If it hasn't gone

too far , you can spray a solution of clorox on it, kill those

buggers and it'll return to it's natural color.

Barb

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

But the bugs are creating the placque themselves, right? I mean,

sometimes when I start a new abx, the placque will build up over

night, and I can literally chip what feels like pieces of concrete

off the backs of my lower front teeth. You know the only thing that

clears it up? The bleach rinse. Quite fast if I combine it with the

high powered water jet of the Hydrofloss. But just brushing

vigorously does me no good. And it's much slower with the hydrofloss

alone. The bleach really works. Wonder where else in the body these

bugs can create rock hard buildups or something equally as

impervious?

penny

> > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Hi Tony, I just realized that the " dumbaussie " is the Tony that is

causing the stir around here, well besides . There is no way

that I have read all your posts so I'm not sure if this is your

issue. You are bothered by everyone talking pathogens and not

branching out into other stuff???

If that is the case, I kind of agree, BUT ultimately all of the

things you mention in this post eventually end up back at pathogens.

I have been someone who didn't sweat. I have also dealt with

hypercoagulation/thickened blood, both with home recipes and

heparin. Both of those worked/work really well.

I have had literally 100s of odd symptoms, given no explanation by

traditional medicine. According to them, I should have been the

picture of health. That was despite the fact that I looked like an

anorexic, in the final stages of cancer, having been through several

rounds of chemo.

The only real thing that has helped me combat ALL of those symptoms

is looking at ALL of this from that angle that it is pathogens that

are causing ALL or at least most of this. I have treated pathogens,

and have reagained the vast majority of my health. I actually can

hike now at elevations above 7000 feet at a pretty good clip. I'm

not talking just a leasurelly walk in the woods, but an uphill grade

over rocks. Not that many years ago, I couldn't walk from my kitchen

to the living room, without wobbling, and banging into 2 door jams,

kicking my toe on the coffee table and then knocking my drink on the

floor when trying to set it down.

Now I have in my mind almost cat like reflexes. I drop my keys and I

can actually move fast enough to catch them in mid air with my arms

full. I amaze myself.

None of this would have been possible without treating pathogens. We

can talk about all of the problems and how we might be able to

relieve each one with various treatments, but they might not be

needed. The bottom line is, we are talking pathogens, whether it be

Lyme, Mycoplasma, EBV, etc. Clear them up and we won't need to

really talk about much of the other stuff. I have had a REAL long

time to think about all of this and have been researching for years

with the help of a great doctor. How can one argue with the results,

the proof is in the pudding, 95% remission is nothing to sneeze at.

-- In infections , " dumbaussie2000 "

<dumbaussie2000@y...> wrote:

> I'm just pointing out tht a lot of effort goes inot talking

> pathogens and the body has all these problems- vascularity being a

> major issue in ilness. Our skin the largest organ is not flowing

> well at all in most PWC's. this is why I ask how you sweat.This is

> microcirculation that I believe is not circulating.

> You can virtually create auto immune ilness in anyone by painting

> there skin. Once the natural flows are tampered with gases/toxins

> are being locked in and the person that's been painted tip to toe

> will start to get ill.

> So, many have very poor circulation thru diseased skin, and poor

> vascularity. Tamper with a healthy person and you can create

> autoimmune like ilness very easily. and actually more focus after

a

> year or so and 3000 posts should be discussing other facets of ill

> hrealth. Actually not many come on here and post about there I and

R

> blood thickness issue's. This is what ticked me off last time when

I

> asked how succesfully people got there blood thinner with so

called

> home recipe's. I got yelled at because your supposed to go off and

> take this for 6 months and just expect it to be working.

>

>

>

>

> > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Jelly

No one attacks his pathogens like me and I mean NOBODY in the world

has taken more drugs than me..The only problem is that you play

russian roulette when using antibiotics, many are growth stimulants

for bacteria so using the wrong drugs to attack your pathogens will

make you worse. This is the problem with autoimmune ilnesses when

someone uses a drug that clears millions of his pathogens quickly

this person will respond nicely and person 2 that just tickles his

pathogens will get violently ill, often mistakenly called HERX.

There has never been ONE POST on this forum about antibiotic

resistant bacteria. The fact that bugs have armamements against

antibiotics means that they can fire off missles to destroy incoming

drugs, if you threaten them and they fire off missiles you may think

your herxing.There's many commonsense things that have been poorly

covered or totally ignored, and what pisses me off most is that

people have thick blood and no-one tests regularly there I and R

(blood thickness), it's just hearsay this will thin your blood. I

have had friends that have sat thru 6 months of aspirin and the

blood thickness didn't budge.

> > > > >

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Tony, I don't think that he who takes the most drugs will win. You

are VERY wrong about me playing Russian Roulette. The " few " drugs

that I have taken are very specifcally targeting certain pathogens.

I have NEVER used ABX throughout my life. I never used them on my

kids. I don't believe in taking meds unless there are no other

options. I believe in the condition I was in ABX were the only

option, it was the lessor of two evils.

I have Mycoplasma Fermentans, and I have tried Doxy, Cipro and

finally Minocycline which proved to be my magic bullet. Mino is

known to best work on Mycoplasma. I herxed severely on Doxy, which

happens to be one of the prime ABX used for Lyme, but can often

prove to bring on to strong of a herx, it works almost to well. I

still herx on Mino and have never yet taken a full dose. The most I

have taken is 50 mgs. every other day and that brings on to strong

of a herx. I have made major progress with as little as 3 mgs of

Mino every other day....what can I say?

CWD pathogens are entirely a different bug then most. They are not

like a typical bacteria. ABX do not kill them directly, so having

them build up a resistance is not a concern to most doctors.

I don't mean to toot my own horn here, but I would venture a guess

that I know more about hypercoagulation then anyone here. A huge

number of people who now know about hypercoagulation learned it from

me, going back at least 4 years on the Immune Support board. When I

arrived, hypercoagulation had been mentioned two times. I had

already been receiving treatment for a year. I exlpained

hyperrcoagulation over and over and over. Nearly getting myself

banned a couple of times when one head Moderator didn't believe it.

Today hypercoagualtion is a household word over at IS, it has a life

of it's own. Often when I am searching hypercoagulation on Google, I

come up with my own posts.

Getting tested a few times is agood idea just to make sure the

heparin or NattoK is working. But you can usually tell from outward

appearances if your hypercoagulation is bad enough whether or not it

is working. It will be more then obvious. I can even tell when I can

cut back on the heparin or Natto just by observing how I bleed. I've

been retested many times. My doctor now recommends Natto as a first

option since my finding it and being successful with it. If you want

to know about hypercoagulation, take a look at my website, there is

a lot of stuff there. http://cure2003.conforums.com/index.cgi

As for your friends who have used aspirin to deal with

hypercoagulation/ISAC.......wrong drug. Aspirin prevents platelets

from sticking together. In ISAC that isn't the primary problem, it's

a build up of fibirn. Aspirin has no effect on fibrin, so you really

won't see any improvement in your thickened blood. If you want to

try something at home, use NattoK, bottom line.

> > > > > >

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Barb,

Tony's post gave me an idea. I know you took very large doses of

Ibuprofen for several yeras to deal with your inflammation, and

quite successfully. It just occurred to me. Do you think it was

thinning your blood as well?!?! Double whammy! That could explain a

lot of your success with the drugs you took, plus the fact that you

used very good reasoning in how you chose your drugs and how you

timed them. The majority of docs are prescribing the abx mainly on

guesswork and how someone else responded to them, which as Tony

says, what's good for one, could be disastrous for somebody else.

And his point about what seems to be a " herx " actually being the

bug's toxic defenses against incoming antibiotics is also really

good. Many antibiotics are made from the toxins of bacteria. So our

nasty little buggers have little drug factories all their own, and

they use them when they feel they're being attacked. That could

definitely explain why people feel sick when they take an abx, not

because it's killing bugs, but because it's causing an anti anti-

bacterial defense. It's so hard to know how to guage our reactions,

but when I hear someone " herxing " for months (or weeks) on a drug, I

doubt very much it's really a herx.

That's what Tony gets really annoyed about, and then makes

outrageous statements involving the words " stupid " and " never " :-).

It's because our docs don't do more simple monitoring, like testing

the INR, to watch if there are any positive changes in the blood to

know whether an abx is having a positive effect on us or not.

penny

> > > > > >

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Penny, You said that you don't understand people herxing for weeks

or months. Let me suggest this to you. I know I am dealing with at

the very least 2 Myco infections, and I've researched them quite a

bit. Mycos multiply extremely slowly. Over the many years I have

been infected I no doubt have generations of Mycos, making a huge

family tree. I tried to find out what the life span of a Myco is,

and it seems like it was pretty long. Many months if not into a year

or more.

Then another factor is, they must live inside of other cells in

order to survive, leaving only when that cell dies and they need a

new home. Varying cells in our bodies live varying amounts of time,

some being many months. The only time a Myco is affected by ABX is

when it leaves it's host cell looking for a new home. It is not

killed by the ABX but rather the ABX changes things so that it can't

enter a new host cell. Leaving it exposed with no cell wall. This is

when either our own immune system can kill it, or it dies of it own

accord due to lack of cell wall.

So you have a lot of variables there. The life of the pathogen/CWD,

and the life of the host cell. Do you see how herxing might then go

on for months, based entirely on the life of the host cell and how

fast and if the CWD can enter another host where it will survive

safe from ABX until that host cell dies.

From what I understand Lyme and/or some of the coinfections are also

CWDs and would likely react in a similar way.

As far as Ibueprophen working on ISAC, it might help a little, but

it still doesn't degrade fibrin, the main problem. I used to take 16

Advil a day and my hypercoagulation was SEVERE.

> > > > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Penny:

I researched ibuprofen previously, because I took so much of it, and

yes I knew what the properties were.

And because I knew what they were, I was not persuaded to switch

it as my immune modulators (Ibuprofen and HCQ were both my

modulators) to Benicar.

I was familiar with Ibuprofen - and I knew what the interactions

were.

Barb

PS I've posted the addys of most of these bfore - but here they are

again.:

1) SYNERGY

Anti- Candida , alone and in synergy with fluconazole, although I

still had Candida when I finished Lyme therapy and had to deal with

it.

" Antifungal activity of ibuprofen alone and in combination with

fluconazole against Candida species "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10966233 & query_hl=37

SYNERGY WITH abx

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=15839362 & query_hl=48

2) ANTAGONISM - can't take it with all abx

" Effect of antipyretic agents on uptake, transport, and release of

antimicrobial agents by human polymorphonuclear leukocytes. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=12001049 & query_hl=37

3) Clotting time:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=pubmed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=699486 & query_hl=42

> > > > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Wow, 16 a day? I take one advil and am in severe spasms for 3 days!

Yes, what you're saying makes sense. But I think the word " herx " is

incorrect then. The true definition of herx is very different.

And I'm not sure that I feel comfortable with the idea that such

long term suffering means the treatment is all that effective, but I

could definitely be wrong. Especially if someone is well in the end.

I won't argue with results at all.

penny

> > > > > > > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

How is the definition of a herx different? A herx is due to toxins

caused by a die off. As the bugs emerge from the host cell, in

search of a new home, they find themselves locked out. Then they

die, and then there little dead corpses cause toxins, which cause

the dreaded herx.

Here is a quote from the " Road Back Foundation " .

" The reaction has been attributed to liberation of endotoxins-like

substances or of antigens (a substance which causes an immune

reaction) from the killed or dying microorganisms. " This is as

defined by Karl Herxheimer who died in 1947. He said that it usually

lasted about 2 weeks.

We've come a long way, and I think we know stuff now that he had no

clue of. There are bugs that he had never heard of. He was mostly

targeting certain Mycos. There are new Mycos that are really wiley

now, like Fermentans/Incognitus.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

One thing I don't buy is hogwash, all these mycoplasma positives and

negatives and fermentens are a CROC OF _____, I know many people

that went that route, one lady told me over the phone she had 4

tests.. I side with doctors on mycoplasma's as exactly what most

doctors feel--WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY.This girl was positive twice

negative twice did the 9 plus months of treatments and really never

got anywhere.

The most drugs quote is when I was in the state many of the worst

ill are in, you only have death staring you in the face so heavy

therapy may as well kill me because at least I tried was my thought

at the time. The irony was that the harder the therapy the better I

felt so I understood how WAY UNDERMEDICATED I was.

> > > > > > >

> > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Jelly

The herx example is very wrong IMO. Where do you see someone doing

microbial countts and monitoring bacteria to prove that what is

being called HERX is exactly what's happening.bacteria dying and

releasing toxins...When I have heavy growth I feel terrible so I

must be herxing,but why do I feel absolutely brilliant when I have

low growths and the therapy ploughs thru the bugs.

There's a massive microbial population on everyone in these forums

so watching it's growth pattern and person's level of discomfort

would prove the HERX another MYTH busted.Then there's the highly

resistant bacterial population that fires of missiles everytime

there's a perceived threat and you don't just sit back and not feel

or recognise one of these attacks because your histamine

inflammatory systems are going thru the roof.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > >

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

Tony,

Please explaine what you mean with 'histamine inflammatory system' work when

going thrue the roof

/Per

dumbaussie2000 wrote:

> There's a massive microbial population on everyone in these forums

> so watching it's growth pattern and person's level of discomfort

> would prove the HERX another MYTH busted.Then there's the highly

> resistant bacterial population that fires of missiles everytime

> there's a perceived threat and you don't just sit back and not feel

> or recognise one of these attacks because your histamine

> inflammatory systems are going thru the roof.

--

Per Sjöholm

Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Per

I feel you could possably get a great understanding of this if you

looked up INFLAMMATORY RESPONSE SYNDROME IRS.

It's virtually explainimng some of the inflammatory stuff going on

in your body in response to an infection or allergy or whatever.

BAsically it's something I looked at years ago looking for blood

markers to prove your blood ain't what it should be. In other words

to cast aside the idea everything in your bloodtests is fine.I

actually tried to get tested for histamine blood-histamine urine

ended up trying to do a tryptase test which is an after death marker

of very high inflammation.I think when alive the level should not

exceed 6. 6 was also a level a very bad asthmatic could achieve I

felt oyur close to death experiences would push the tryptase level

out of range and benefitted us imensley with our medical

fraternities.

It would be nicer to do a blood test that automatically gets us away

from the all in your head doctors and gets us taken seriously.

tony

> > There's a massive microbial population on everyone in these

forums

> > so watching it's growth pattern and person's level of discomfort

> > would prove the HERX another MYTH busted.Then there's the highly

> > resistant bacterial population that fires of missiles everytime

> > there's a perceived threat and you don't just sit back and not

feel

> > or recognise one of these attacks because your histamine

> > inflammatory systems are going thru the roof.

>

>

> --

> Per Sjöholm

> Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Actually Per I feel that herx may actually be the inflammatory

response syndrome.

tony

> > There's a massive microbial population on everyone in these

forums

> > so watching it's growth pattern and person's level of discomfort

> > would prove the HERX another MYTH busted.Then there's the highly

> > resistant bacterial population that fires of missiles everytime

> > there's a perceived threat and you don't just sit back and not

feel

> > or recognise one of these attacks because your histamine

> > inflammatory systems are going thru the roof.

>

>

> --

> Per Sjöholm

> Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Tony:

Well then, I guess you're not a fan of extremely low

dose taken only at intervals :-)

I agree with you..

with a couple of exceptions, I used therapeutic doses and never

exceeded the maximum dose for my body weight- and for some abx I had

to ramp them up to the desired dose (desensiization, or bug die-off -

I don't know).. I did that as quickly as I could.

and I almost always weaned off abx when I stopped. I think my body

developed some sort of dependancy, or compencatory mechanism while on

them... and if I stayed on them for a long time, my endurance really

suffered. Matter of fact, when I was finished with abx therapy, it

took me over 6 months to get the strenghth back I had before going on

them. I always felt weak and tired when I went off, and slowly felt

better and regained strenght after going off. Personally, I think

this (for me anyway) was a function of how long I stayed on them and

the stage of the illness ..Shorter courses tended not to do that to

me.

But my 1 month on Mino (recently for my rash) was a piece of cake

compared to Mino 2 years ago.

Barb

> > > > > > > >

> > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm

[Guest guest]

T:

You're getting warmer.

B

> > > There's a massive microbial population on everyone in these

> forums

> > > so watching it's growth pattern and person's level of

discomfort

> > > would prove the HERX another MYTH busted.Then there's the

highly

> > > resistant bacterial population that fires of missiles everytime

> > > there's a perceived threat and you don't just sit back and not

> feel

> > > or recognise one of these attacks because your histamine

> > > inflammatory systems are going thru the roof.

> >

> >

> > --

> > Per Sjöholm

> > Stockholm, Sweden

[Guest guest]

Barb

My problem lies in the facts of how medicine is practised. When you

get a stiff neck it's usually called meningitis because we don't

have all the bells and whistles of this huge infection which is a

brain infection and nervous system infection we get treated with

rediculously low levels of drugs. our condition is downgraded to

encephalitis a lower level of the meningitis.

Chaemotherapy with antibiotics is written by a local doctor treating

patients for 30 to 40 years and there's never a mention of using

pill antibiotics for massive infections. He talks mg per kg and we

have gone to this extreme amount to get the patient well or back

from the abyss.

The autoimmune trendies come up with a spastic version of events

called low dosing abx. When you got meninigitis like symptoms

arthritic type symptoms your at the wrong forum IMO. I do see some

benefit of chiselling away at a very necrotic mush like infection,

but for my liking you've got to know what your goals are and

unfortunately everyone should learn to understand that they are all

different.

Barb when you not sick antibiotics don't do anything to you. Try

taking erythromycin with this highly resistant erythromycin

infection.Actually I made a boo boo by saying that because the HERX

comes into play.

Also I rotate and push triple therapy because the drugs miss the

mark with the bugs after a month or so. So therefore you telling me

you need a long tiome to recover with the wrong type of approach is

100% believable.also drugs travel in different directions some lung

some bone some soft tisuue.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329134246.htm