Re: Find Cardiography in your Area !

[Guest guest]

I would add that there are several manufacturers, according to my source, a

cardiac nurse.

adrienne

Find Cardiography in your Area !

Hi all,

Some of you may be interested in getting the Impedance Cardiography Test,

referred to as " ICG " , used by Dr. Peckerman and Dr. Cheney for the CFS Cardiac

problem. I did some research and here is what I found.

The best way to find who offers the test in your area is to phone the maker of

the machine and ask them who

offers ICG in your area. One such maker of ICG equipment is Cardio Dynamics

in San Diego,Ca.; phone (800)778-4825 and speak to their customer service

department. (They referred me to their Sales-rep for my area, and I'm waiting

for the rep's reply).

Once you do find who offers it, you must follow, as Dr. Cheney says in the DFW

Report by Carol Sieverling

www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids/medical/cheney/heart04.part1a.htm

" the Thoracic Algorithm " on page 4 . It involves chest & body size. etc.

You would also need the Peckerman study and follow the protocol listed in the

" Design and Measurements " paragraph. I think that's all you need, but to be sure

make sure the clinic reads the literature first to make sure they can do it the

same way as Dr. Peckerman did.

Al

[Guest guest]

Al

I haven't read the article but I always smell a rat with this sort

of stuff. You get tested and they haven't got the slightest idea

what is causing the problem or what treatment to give. -There seems

to be a major effort on getting tested them getting there money and

the problem remains. Or worse than that an inapropriate regime is in

place to milk you further.I got frustrated with the performanece of

2 echocardiographs. I felt that it was all just an exercise that

suits the physician- unless your heart is a couple of days away from

complete failure.Cheney or lapp who's at the heart of this stuff is

absolutely useless at prescribing an antifungal, or antibiotic, so I

wouldn't erxpect tyhem to jump up and prescribe an antiviral.

tony

-- In infections , " Al Melillo "

<melillo3@e...> wrote:

> Hi all,

>

> Some of you may be interested in getting the Impedance

Cardiography Test, referred to as " ICG " , used by Dr. Peckerman and

Dr. Cheney for the CFS Cardiac problem. I did some research and here

is what I found.

> The best way to find who offers the test in your area is to phone

the maker of the machine and ask them who

> offers ICG in your area. One such maker of ICG equipment is

Cardio Dynamics in San Diego,Ca.; phone (800)778-4825 and speak to

their customer service department. (They referred me to their Sales-

rep for my area, and I'm waiting for the rep's reply).

>

> Once you do find who offers it, you must follow, as Dr. Cheney

says in the DFW Report by Carol Sieverling

> www.virtualhometown.com/dfwcfids/medical/cheney/heart04.part1a.htm

> " the Thoracic Algorithm " on page 4 . It involves chest & body

size. etc.

>

> You would also need the Peckerman study and follow the protocol

listed in the " Design and Measurements " paragraph. I think that's

all you need, but to be sure make sure the clinic reads the

literature first to make sure they can do it the same way as Dr.

Peckerman did.

>

>

> Al

[Guest guest]

> Al

> I haven't read the article but I always smell a rat with this sort

> of stuff. You get tested and they haven't got the slightest idea

> what is causing the problem or what treatment to give.

> tony

Hi Tony,

Dr. Cheney will speak in June at a CFS support group, so hopefully

he will have some treatment news by then. The test is useful to know

how bad your heart is affected.

Al

[Guest guest]

>

Hi Al,

I am delighted that you are following through on this.

> ...and speak to their customer service department. (They referred me

> to their Sales-rep for my area, and I'm waiting for the rep's reply).

It would help us if you could get them to give you a list of cities

that have this.

> " the Thoracic Algorithm " on page 4 . It involves chest & body size.

> etc.

Any good links to details of this algorithm?

Carol Sieverling wrote: " They used a thoracic algorithm, developed at

the University of Minnesota some 30 years ago. This algorithm allows

many factors to be part of determining Q, including chest and body

size. Using it, you can compare the " Q " of big people to the " Q " of

small people and still be comparing apples to apples. "

But then I found

http://www.co-cardiology.com/pt/re/cocardio/abstract.00001573

-200405000-00008.htm;

jsessionid=CUkcUqYmWGbZ6jc1r0A9bA2MfgHatZsMrKvAyiUgjtSd8IcsIvAI!

-1127636574!-949856032!9001!-1:

Recent developments in cardiac output determination by bioimpedance:

comparison with invasive cardiac output and potential cardiovascular

applications.

Current Opinion in Cardiology. 19(3):229-237, May 2004.

Moshkovitz, Yaron a; Kaluski, Edo a; Milo, Olga b; Vered, Zvi b;

Cotter, Gad b

" Summary: Recently, significant improvement was achieved in cardiac

output measurement by bioimpedance with both newer thoracic and whole

body techniques. Preliminary studies imply that this measure may be of

value in managing some cardiovascular disorders. "

So, is Cheney doing it the best way? In about three weeks, maybe we'll

know.

> You would also need the Peckerman study and follow the protocol listed

> in the " Design and Measurements " paragraph.

Here's the paragraph:

Design and Measurements. Testing was conducted in a

quiet, temperature-controlled room between 11:00 and 1:00

The subject was instructed to have breakfast but not to consume

anything with caffeine for 4 hours before presenting for the study.

The study protocol that provided data for this report consisted of

a 10-minute period of supine rest, followed by a 5-minute period

of quiet standing. Impedance cardiogram was recorded with a

University of Miami impedance cardiograph (model R03)using

methods described in previous publications.

Impedance cardiograms were computer-scored and edited without awareness

of

the subject group status to provide measures of stroke volume

and preejection period. Heart rate was measured from the elec-

trocardiograph. The means of 2 30-second data samples recorded

during the last 2 minutes of the supine and standing periods were

used in analyses. Mean arterial pressure was recorded in syn-

chrony with impedance cardiography using a Dinamap (Model

1846 SX) blood pressure monitor.

The full paper is here:

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Iy5CmH3pFOAJ:www.cfids-cab.org/

cfs-inform/Coicfs/

peckerman.etal.03.pdf+%22arnold+peckerman%22+design+measurements & hl=en & s

tart=2

Sue ,

Upstate New York

[Guest guest]

> >

> Hi Al,

>

> I am delighted that you are following through on this.

>

> > ...and speak to their customer service department. (They

referred me

> > to their Sales-rep for my area, and I'm waiting for the rep's

reply).

>

> It would help us if you could get them to give you a list of

cities

> that have this.

Reply : Too much work, you'll have to phone them yourself since they

have different sales reps for different areas.

>

>>

> Any good links to details of this algorithm?

Reply :No, only what Carol Sieverling reported on what Dr. Cheney

said.

>

>> Sue ,

> Upstate New York

Al