Re: WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

[Guest guest]

Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious posts: "TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!!"

That's Tony's one and only message.

And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe we won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious ad nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end), I shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside deep tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or that they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a finger up your nose?)

2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to grow (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg) even in highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but there are LOADS more)

>My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off as "unimportant" because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology 101 medium?

4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is: what I can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't possibly be making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my ENT area, and in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible. How on earth do you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria that you can't access, see, grow, test against abx?

>How is anyone going to >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking herx >for 8 months and 27 days.

What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme patients favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days rightly or wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex Bacterial Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several abx in combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact before you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

>The >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the lyme >for a couple of weeks.

What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most well-informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their ONLY problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for not doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed out doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try and grow staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

Nelly

[infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma was an absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were offered SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have the LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She waxes and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and saved her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to fail her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going to get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking herx for 8 months and 27 days.Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in the library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and observations of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated infection. The other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the lyme for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this talk and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing squat.You think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr. is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should be used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see people progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this will never occur because he is also another QUACK...Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures and my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins in cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this point I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm. Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood culturesstaph positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the treatment resolves my symptoms.

[Guest guest]

Nelly, I know it's not intentional, but it's exactly what you're

saying in this post that gets Tony, and everyone else with non-lyme

infections, so frustrated. (It's just that we could use a better

spokesmodel.) It's a widespread public misperception. People think

you get it, but they don't at all. Which is TOTALLY fine. I don't

get a lot of what you get (which is impressive, I admit), but I

don't get all indignant about it, and I don't say " there you go

again, lyme, lyme, lyme " . Well, usually I don't. Or at least I try

to say it kindly. :-)

There ARE i.d. docs, orthopedic docs, microbiologists, etc., who we

could learn from. They DO believe that testing the organisms that

can be easily identified can help advance treatment. I know people

benefitting from this kind of approach. Why ignore the toxic bugs

right there in your nose, in favor of ones that can't be cultured?

It doesn't mean the " unseen " organisms aren't important too, but if

treating the visible ones gets a positive response, what's wrong

with that? And the fact of the matter is, 99.9% of the people on

these chronic illness lists have never had a single, easy-to-

identify organism tested in their life. Even a strep test is just

positive or negative. Doesn't tell you which strain, or which abx is

best for it. This lack of specificity in dealing with our bugs is

DANGEROUS to our entire society!!! It's perpetuating an

increasingly, chronically ill culture.

Bug testing ain't NEVER going to happen if we don't keep bringing it

up, keep harping on it, until more PWC doctors (thank God for Dr.

Shoemaker, the first well known PWC doc in the U.S) start looking at

the whole illness picture. All the places infections reside, and all

the ways they make us sick. Either that, or it's going to be to late

and there's going to be a deadly outbreak that can't be dealt with.

Don't laugh, it's already happening with staph infections in kids.

The numbers of pediatric staph infections unresponsive to treatment

in the U.S. has tripled in a very short time, and the big Pediatric

Association has expressed great alarm. But what's being done? They

send out PSA's telling people not to abuse antibiotics? Who's

abusing antibiotics? The doctors prescribing them using guesswork,

instead of labwork, that's who!!!

Testing for bugs and sensitiviteis ESPECIALLY ain't never going to

happen if we can't even discuss on lists like this, the

possibilities of other bugs and other testing and the treatment of

co-infections, as well as the already accepted tests and treatments

for lyme and mycoplasma.

penny

> Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

posts: " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

>

> That's Tony's one and only message.

>

> And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

>

> If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe we

won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious ad

nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

>

> So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end), I

shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

>

> 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside deep

tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or

that they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a

finger up your nose?)

>

> 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to

grow (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg) even

in highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but

there are LOADS more)

>

> >My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

>

> 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off as " unimportant "

because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology 101

medium?

>

> 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

what I can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

possibly be making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my

ENT area, and in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible.

How on earth do you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria

that you can't access, see, grow, test against abx?

>

> >How is anyone going to

> >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for

> >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> >for 8 months and 27 days.

>

> What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme patients

favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days rightly

or wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex Bacterial

Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several abx

in combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact

before you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

>

> >The

> >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is

> >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins

> >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal

> >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> >for a couple of weeks.

>

> What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most well-

informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their ONLY

problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for not

doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed out

doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try and

grow staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

>

> Nelly

> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

>

>

> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't

> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma was

an

> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

offered

> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have

the

> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

waxes

> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

saved

> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to

fail

> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going

to

> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> for 8 months and 27 days.

> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in

the

> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

observations

> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated infection.

The

> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

is

> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

talk

> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

squat.You

> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should

be

> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

people

> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

will

> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures

and

> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

in

> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this

point

> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm.

> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

culturesstaph

> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

treatment

> resolves my symptoms.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Penny, what I need is not a nap but your ear, open and ready for

business.

No one on this list, not Nelly, not myself, not anyone in the months

I've read here, has objected to discussion of non-Lyme infections.

That is an interpretation you are pasting on something very

different, the offense people register when told that their disease

is a fiction.

If you would stop implying that, you could talk till the cows came

home about staph and pseudomonads and no one would ever protest.

This is a group of reasoned, intelligent people who have all done an

impressive job of amassing understanding of what ails them. No one

here deserves the arrogance of Tony's posts, and no Lyme patient

here deserves to have you complain about the blinding effects of

what you call the " Lymelight. "

You don't have to yell at people to tell them that in addition to

Lyme other things may be wrong with them.

I have talked here at some length about my own alternate diagnoses,

which everyone but you seems to understand I take very seriously,

indeed. I am not hiding behind a Lyme diagnosis, it does nothing to

protect me from hours of seizures that cost me the use of my hands

and my ability to pronounce my own name.

It's the arrogance of your assumptions that offends, not the

introduction of non-Lyme topics. Please, please, please try to

understand that.

I didn't need any prompting from you to post abstracts about tick-

borne coinfections, esptein-barr, viral suspects in MS, etc. Neither

did Hodologica when he spent a whole lot of time posting about

CWD bacteria, Lyme and non-Lyme. didn't need a shot in the

arm from you to post here about her struggles with CFS and a neuro

diagnosis that may include MS or Alzheimers, and I didn't need your

prodding to acknowledge the many conversations Jess and I have had

about how similar our symptoms and MR findings are, despite our

different diagnoses.

This conversation about Lyme versus non-Lyme infections has been

going on for months, in a civil and productive fashion, and apart

from yourself not one person has written in to say " I feel so

intimidated by all this Lyme business, I can't post here. "

I put up with the Unnameable One dismissing the science of the Lyme

epidemic, rather than engaging it critically, because Lyme is

something he neither has nor understands and that fact limited his

relevance.

I will not suffer the same kind of conduct here, and that has

nothing to do with personal animosity to you. I think that patients

have a right to come here without dealing with that kind of crap.

Some of us are very sick, and it introduces an unreasonable bar to

participation if we have to re-argue the reality of Lyme disease

every time we log on, not because of some new evidence but because

of an old and very tired song that is unaccountably played over and

over again.

You can make this all a personal attack on you but I have no

animosity toward you and never have. What I have is a disease I

hate, a board I love, and a desire to not have to choose between

them. I would think you could understand that, and am still hoping

that eventually you will.

Thanks,

> > Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

> posts: " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

> >

> > That's Tony's one and only message.

> >

> > And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

> >

> > If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe

we

> won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious

ad

> nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

> >

> > So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end),

I

> shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

> >

> > 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside

deep

> tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or

> that they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a

> finger up your nose?)

> >

> > 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to

> grow (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg)

even

> in highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

> equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but

> there are LOADS more)

> >

> > >My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> > >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

> >

> > 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off

as " unimportant "

> because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology

101

> medium?

> >

> > 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

> what I can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

> possibly be making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in

my

> ENT area, and in my mouth and in my blood because it is

accessible.

> How on earth do you know you are not in fact treating other

bacteria

> that you can't access, see, grow, test against abx?

> >

> > >How is anyone going to

> > >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> > >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

> herx

> > >for 8 months and 27 days.

> >

> > What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme patients

> favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days

rightly

> or wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex

Bacterial

> Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several abx

> in combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact

> before you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

> >

> > >The

> > >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

is

> > >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> > >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> > >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

> lyme

> > >for a couple of weeks.

> >

> > What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most well-

> informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their

ONLY

> problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for

not

> doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed out

> doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try and

> grow staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

> >

> > Nelly

> > [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

> >

> >

> > How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy

doesn't

> > work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> > quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma

was

> an

> > absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

> offered

> > SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now

have

> the

> > LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> > positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

> waxes

> > and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

> saved

> > her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to

> fail

> > her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going

> to

> > get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

> for

> > three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

> herx

> > for 8 months and 27 days.

> > Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was

in

> the

> > library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> > suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

> observations

> > of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated

infection.

> The

> > other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

> is

> > the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> haemolysins

> > which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> optimal

> > look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

> lyme

> > for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

> talk

> > and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

> squat.You

> > think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

>

> > is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his

should

> be

> > used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

> people

> > progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

> will

> > never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> > Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using

cultures

> and

> > my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> > (percentages), bacterial growths

heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

> in

> > cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this

> point

> > I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> > candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts

ma'm.

> > Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

> culturesstaph

> > positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

> treatment

> > resolves my symptoms.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

OH MY GOD he back.....lol.... get ready for some serious ranting

therapy. " YOUR ALL RETARDS " is the opening line i do believe.

Welcome back Tony.

> Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious posts:

> " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

>  

> That's Tony's one and only message.

>  

> And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

>  

> If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe we

> won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious ad

> nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

>  

> So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end), I

> shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

>  

> 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside deep

> tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or that

> they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a finger up

> your nose?)

>  

> 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to grow

> (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg) even in

> highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

> equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but there

> are LOADS more)

>  

> >My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

>  

> 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off as " unimportant "

> because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology

> 101 medium? 

>  

> 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is: what I

> can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't possibly be

> making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my ENT area, and

> in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible. How on earth do

> you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria that you can't

> access, see, grow, test against abx? 

>  

> >How is anyone going to

> >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for

> >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking herx

> >for 8 months and 27 days.

> What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme patients

> favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days rightly or

> wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex Bacterial

> Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several abx in

> combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact before

> you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

>  

> >The

> >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is

> >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins

> >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal

> >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the lyme

> >for a couple of weeks.

>  

> What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most

> well-informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their

> ONLY problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for

> not doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed out

> doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try and grow

> staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

>  

> Nelly

>> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

>>

>> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't

>> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

>> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma was an

>> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were offered

>> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have the

>> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

>> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She waxes

>> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and saved

>> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to fail

>> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going to

>> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for

>> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking herx

>> for 8 months and 27 days.

>> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in the

>> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

>> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and observations

>> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated infection. The

>> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is

>> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins

>> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal

>> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the lyme

>> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this talk

>> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing squat.You

>> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

>> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should be

>> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see people

>> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this will

>> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

>> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures and

>> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

>> (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins in

>> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this point

>> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

>> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm.

>> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood culturesstaph

>> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the treatment

>> resolves my symptoms.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

Yeah, great timing. :-) Still, I missed him.

penny

> OH MY GOD he back.....lol.... get ready for some serious ranting

> therapy. " YOUR ALL RETARDS " is the opening line i do believe.

>

> Welcome back Tony.

>

> > Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

posts:

> > " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

> >  

> > That's Tony's one and only message.

> >  

> > And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

> >  

> > If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe

we

> > won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious

ad

> > nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

> >  

> > So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end),

I

> > shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

> >  

> > 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside

deep

> > tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any,

or that

> > they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a finger

up

> > your nose?)

> >  

> > 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to

grow

> > (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg) even

in

> > highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

> > equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but

there

> > are LOADS more)

> >  

> > >My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> > >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

> >  

> > 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off

as " unimportant "

> > because you can't get to them and grow them on your

Microbiology

> > 101 medium? 

> >  

> > 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

what I

> > can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

possibly be

> > making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my ENT

area, and

> > in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible. How on

earth do

> > you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria that you

can't

> > access, see, grow, test against abx? 

> >  

> > >How is anyone going to

> > >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> > >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> > >for 8 months and 27 days.

> > What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme

patients

> > favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days

rightly or

> > wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex

Bacterial

> > Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several

abx in

> > combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact

before

> > you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

> >  

> > >The

> > >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

is

> > >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> > >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> > >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> > >for a couple of weeks.

> >  

> > What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most

> > well-informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not

their

> > ONLY problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us

for

> > not doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already

stressed out

> > doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try

and grow

> > staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

> >  

> > Nelly

> >> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

> >>

> >> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't

> >> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> >> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma

was an

> >> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

offered

> >> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have

the

> >> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> >> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

waxes

> >> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

saved

> >> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to

fail

> >> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going

to

> >> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> >> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> >> for 8 months and 27 days.

> >> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in

the

> >> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> >> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

observations

> >> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated

infection. The

> >> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

is

> >> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> >> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> >> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> >> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

talk

> >> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

squat.You

> >> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

> >> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should

be

> >> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

people

> >> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

will

> >> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> >> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures

and

> >> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> >> (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

in

> >> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this

point

> >> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> >> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm.

> >> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

culturesstaph

> >> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

treatment

> >> resolves my symptoms.

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

[Guest guest]

Guys

I posted because after viewing the latest lyme video I realised the

simplicity of watching an organism HUGE IN SIZE and a test easy to

replicate, should form the basis of everyone's treatment.I thought

everyone would be jumping up and down hoping to get there blood

under one of those microscopes. THAT'S WHAT I DO.I never hesitate to

get tested, or get my hands on a treatment, or collect therapies

(like arsenic), or get multiple samples of ARB's to try first hand

what feels and works best. Just give me a challenge and I'm out

there trying to get my hands on it.legally or illegally..

I think Nelly ( a smart cookie) needs answers that she claims I

never meet.

I'll answer one and more later. I get staph out of my blood and

urine, I have wonderfull pictures from my italian friend walter

tarello showing these wonderfull little bacteria's attached to my

red blood cells.Ihave no problem biopsieng any sore bony area's and

growing these bugs,fortunately many people have shown me there

biopsy's reports and I know what there've grown.Bone marrow is as

deep as you can get when it comes to infections so the fact that the

staphs are turing up in just about everyone's bone marrow convinces

me deep tissue would be a wasted effort.

Spine osteomyelitis only grew sinus staph someone had a hip biopsy

that grew staph areus and staph epi.Just about everyone in jaw tmj

biopsy scenario's almost alway's grows staph. The best researchdone

on chronic pain by newcastle university microbiology unit handling

thousands of samples of sinus,stool, urine comes to the conclusion

look for 2 toxins and watch how huge the zone of toxin production is

which is the armament bacteria use to kill or mame and we have this

forum hell bent on lyme and nothing else. Something so large and

obvious as is the case in the video " cn't hide and hurt you " what is

hurting you my friends ain't hiding or a clear cut cell wall

deficient form. It's there in your blood like a malaria parasite

destroying your red blood cells with it's toxins and clumping your

platelets internally and making your bloodstream a mess.

So don't harp at me your energy should be reserved for wright and

his microscope and mattman and 70 years of not curing one person

just giving us stories.

more later, sorry I don't conform to good protocol but it's possably

that silly/stubborn streak in me that makes me so determined to

getting my hands on facts not fiction.

> > OH MY GOD he back.....lol.... get ready for some serious

ranting

> > therapy. " YOUR ALL RETARDS " is the opening line i do believe.

> >

> > Welcome back Tony.

> >

> > > Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

> posts:

> > > " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

> > >  

> > > That's Tony's one and only message.

> > >  

> > > And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

> > >  

> > > If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe

> we

> > > won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the

obvious

> ad

> > > nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

> > >  

> > > So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the

end),

> I

> > > shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

> > >  

> > > 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside

> deep

> > > tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't any,

> or that

> > > they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a

finger

> up

> > > your nose?)

> > >  

> > > 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible

to

> grow

> > > (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for

eg) even

> in

> > > highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

> > > equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below,

but

> there

> > > are LOADS more)

> > >  

> > > >My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> > > >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

> > >  

> > > 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off

> as " unimportant "

> > > because you can't get to them and grow them on your

> Microbiology

> > > 101 medium? 

> > >  

> > > 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

> what I

> > > can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

> possibly be

> > > making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my ENT

> area, and

> > > in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible. How on

> earth do

> > > you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria that you

> can't

> > > access, see, grow, test against abx? 

> > >  

> > > >How is anyone going to

> > > >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

> for

> > > >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

talking

> herx

> > > >for 8 months and 27 days.

> > > What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme

> patients

> > > favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days

> rightly or

> > > wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex

> Bacterial

> > > Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several

> abx in

> > > combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact

> before

> > > you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

> > >  

> > > >The

> > > >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

on

> is

> > > >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> haemolysins

> > > >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> optimal

> > > >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

the

> lyme

> > > >for a couple of weeks.

> > >  

> > > What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most

> > > well-informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not

> their

> > > ONLY problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at

us

> for

> > > not doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already

> stressed out

> > > doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try

> and grow

> > > staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

> > >  

> > > Nelly

> > >> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T

WORK.

> > >>

> > >> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy

doesn't

> > >> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> > >> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma

> was an

> > >> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

> offered

> > >> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now

have

> the

> > >> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> > >> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

> waxes

> > >> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

> saved

> > >> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to

> fail

> > >> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone

going

> to

> > >> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

> for

> > >> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

talking

> herx

> > >> for 8 months and 27 days.

> > >> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was

in

> the

> > >> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> > >> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

> observations

> > >> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated

> infection. The

> > >> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

on

> is

> > >> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> haemolysins

> > >> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> optimal

> > >> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

the

> lyme

> > >> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

> talk

> > >> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

> squat.You

> > >> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

>

> > >> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his

should

> be

> > >> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

> people

> > >> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

> will

> > >> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> > >> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using

cultures

> and

> > >> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> > >> (percentages), bacterial growths

heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

> in

> > >> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At

this

> point

> > >> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> > >> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts

ma'm.

> > >> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

> culturesstaph

> > >> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

> treatment

> > >> resolves my symptoms.

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>

[Guest guest]

Tony

Well I for one am pleased you are back, and it gives me another

opportunity to pick your brain. Do presume from the post below that

Walter Tarello's cultures are worthwhile?

Cheers, Tansy

> > > OH MY GOD he back.....lol.... get ready for some serious

> ranting

> > > therapy. " YOUR ALL RETARDS " is the opening line i do believe.

> > >

> > > Welcome back Tony.

> > >

> > > > Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

> > posts:

> > > > " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

> > > >  

> > > > That's Tony's one and only message.

> > > >  

> > > > And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL

AGREE!!!

> > > >  

> > > > If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then

maybe

> > we

> > > > won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the

> obvious

> > ad

> > > > nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

> > > >  

> > > > So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the

> end),

> > I

> > > > shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

> > > >  

> > > > 1) how do you get onto you petri dish bugs that reside inside

> > deep

> > > > tissues and organs? (or do you consider that there aren't

any,

> > or that

> > > > they are the same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a

> finger

> > up

> > > > your nose?)

> > > >  

> > > > 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible

> to

> > grow

> > > > (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for

> eg) even

> > in

> > > > highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with

expensive

> > > > equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below,

> but

> > there

> > > > are LOADS more)

> > > >  

> > > > >My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> > > > >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

> > > >  

> > > > 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off

> > as " unimportant "

> > > > because you can't get to them and grow them on your

> > Microbiology

> > > > 101 medium? 

> > > >  

> > > > 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying

is:

> > what I

> > > > can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

> > possibly be

> > > > making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my ENT

> > area, and

> > > > in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible. How on

> > earth do

> > > > you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria that you

> > can't

> > > > access, see, grow, test against abx? 

> > > >  

> > > > >How is anyone going to

> > > > >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only

good

> > for

> > > > >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

> talking

> > herx

> > > > >for 8 months and 27 days.

> > > > What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme

> > patients

> > > > favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days

> > rightly or

> > > > wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex

> > Bacterial

> > > > Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use

several

> > abx in

> > > > combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this

fact

> > before

> > > > you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

> > > >  

> > > > >The

> > > > >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

> on

> > is

> > > > >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> > haemolysins

> > > > >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> > optimal

> > > > >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

> the

> > lyme

> > > > >for a couple of weeks.

> > > >  

> > > > What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most

> > > > well-informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is

not

> > their

> > > > ONLY problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at

> us

> > for

> > > > not doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already

> > stressed out

> > > > doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try

> > and grow

> > > > staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

> > > >  

> > > > Nelly

> > > >> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T

> WORK.

> > > >>

> > > >> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy

> doesn't

> > > >> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> > > >> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma

> > was an

> > > >> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

> > offered

> > > >> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now

> have

> > the

> > > >> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran  tests 100 % lyme

> > > >> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

> > waxes

> > > >> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

> > saved

> > > >> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting

to

> > fail

> > > >> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone

> going

> > to

> > > >> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only

good

> > for

> > > >> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

> talking

> > herx

> > > >> for 8 months and 27 days.

> > > >> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was

> in

> > the

> > > >> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> > > >> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

> > observations

> > > >> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated

> > infection. The

> > > >> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

> on

> > is

> > > >> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> > haemolysins

> > > >> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> > optimal

> > > >> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

> the

> > lyme

> > > >> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

> > talk

> > > >> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

> > squat.You

> > > >> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

> >

> > > >> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his

> should

> > be

> > > >> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

> > people

> > > >> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

> > will

> > > >> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> > > >> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using

> cultures

> > and

> > > >> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> > > >> (percentages), bacterial growths

> heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

> > in

> > > >> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At

> this

> > point

> > > >> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> > > >> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts

> ma'm.

> > > >> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

> > culturesstaph

> > > >> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

> > treatment

> > > >> resolves my symptoms.

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

> > > >>

[Guest guest]

answer to number 1- how do you get to the deep tissue bacteria.

answer -pointless to consider deep tissue a deeper biopsy than bone

marrow. Bone marrow almost alway's grows staph species. I'm sure

your deep tissue sample ain't worth squat if the bone below already

harvests bacterial species.

answer to number 2- When you already harvested the bone marrow

biopsy bacteria why are you looking for impossable to grow bugs. I'd

think 99.9% of medicine would feel comfortable you have your

villains if in a bone biopsy they grew out the rest of societies

disease causing bacteria- staph areus, VRE , staph epidermidis,

pseudonomads, strep veridians group.Why would I want to find a

mycoplasma when 99.9% of the time the therapy doesn't seem to

resolve the patients condition.I would be better off attacking fungi

and doing fungal cultures than getting mycoplasma'd or the other

fashionable impossable to find bacteria.

number 3 ..I didn't undertake microbiology half assed. I grew and

observed and teased and tested to watch bacteria work there

destructive mechanisms. I could never tell anyone I did or didn't

like there sinus bacteria until I observed it's haemolysin (toxicity)

potentials.I also work close with a senior microbiologist who was in

charge of the biggest lab in our city before she worked in her own

lab.We observed Toxicity together on many samples.I don't come out

here and make statements without having observed the science.,I

would feel comfortable that any organisms that puts you on your ass

ain't invisable in your blood, unfortunately no-one is looking and

it's as simple as tarello's work doing parasitic smears and

observing how many of your red blood cells are parasitized instead

of running around like a headless chook blaming the invisable. Just

use your head and blame what you find, don't IGNORE and look for

something else and tell me how stupid I am. My jaw drops when you

have all the bells and whistles of disease(disseminated infection)

and your grasping the invisable with both hands.

Number 4

The same thing applies in reverse doing therapy and success and

failure tell me a lot about what your chasing and where your

at.Basically I read enough people's posts and people's experiences

with therapy to gauge what is going on. I just read and read and

read and believe me I already know the outcome. I will give you a

scha experience . If he's lucky he will do the rocephin and it

will give him 3 good days - this is a fifty fifty call, but by day 5

he will be talking Herx and the drug will keep annoying his bugs. He

may have the slimmest chance of eradicating his infection with

rocephin but I doubt it, it would be under 5 % from my experience

with cultures and sensitivities.The borrelia may be completely gone

with the rocephin therapy and I would love to see andy wright show

us a video on this one day.Yet the patient may still be UNWELL even

when the borrelia goes...

To add my own number 5 -- I am a firm believer when you have a

monster organism that measures in the billions and is a bigger

infection than tuberculosis ignoring this is a peril.

\

> Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

posts: " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

>

> That's Tony's one and only message.

>

> And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

>

> If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe we

won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious ad

nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

>

> So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the end), I

shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

>

>? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or that they are the

same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a finger up your nose?)

>

> 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible to

grow (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg) even

in highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but

there are LOADS more)

>

> >My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

>

> 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off as " unimportant "

because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology 101

medium?

>

> 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

what I can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

possibly be making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in my

ENT area, and in my mouth and in my blood because it is accessible.

How on earth do you know you are not in fact treating other bacteria

that you can't access, see, grow, test against abx?

>

> >How is anyone going to

> >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for

> >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> >for 8 months and 27 days.

>

> What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme patients

favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days rightly

or wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex Bacterial

Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several abx

in combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this fact

before you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

>

> >The

> >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is

> >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins

> >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal

> >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> >for a couple of weeks.

>

> What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most well-

informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their ONLY

problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for not

doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed out

doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try and

grow staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

>

> Nelly

> [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.

>

>

> How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't

> work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma was

an

> absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

offered

> SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have

the

> LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

waxes

> and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

saved

> her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to

fail

> her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going

to

> get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking

herx

> for 8 months and 27 days.

> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in

the

> library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

observations

> of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated infection.

The

> other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on

is

> the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the

lyme

> for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

talk

> and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

squat.You

> think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

> is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should

be

> used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

people

> progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

will

> never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures

and

> my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

in

> cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this

point

> I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm.

> Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

culturesstaph

> positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

treatment

> resolves my symptoms.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tony,

Reading your posts (form and content) stresses my brain, but as I am psychologically very task oriented (although I get quite angry when lack of logic reigns supreme) I will make another attempt at getting to "the diamond inside the rough stone" that, Penny promises us, lies hidden in your posts.

To my question: how do you get bugs tested when they reside deep inside tissues and organs (and, may I add, in bone marrow and in brain tissue)

Tony replied:

pointless to consider deep tissue a deeper biopsy than bone marrow. Bone marrow almost alway's grows staph species. I'm sure your deep tissue sample ain't worth squat if the bone below already harvests bacterial species.

Nelly: me no understand nofin!!

.... and as I go down the rest of the mail I still understand nothing, you just keep recirculating the same basic notions i.e.we are all misguidedly ignoring monster bacteria that are easy to swab, easy to grow, easy to test against abx , round and round and round and never get anywhere

Could you give us a step by step guide as to what a poor misguided bedbound patient who has no willing microbiologist on hand can do?

May I add that I had several blood, urine, faeces cultures performed resulting in no growth except one time when I had a urinary tract infection and they grew some E.coli which, wait for it! were sensitive to every abx they tested even to some I had been taking for years!

I also had cultures done from throat swabs, nose swabs nothing.

I know they probably didn't do what they should've done, didn't let the bugs grow for long enough, disregarded what they consider comensal flora etc. but nothing OBVIOUS was found, hence thinking fastidious, slow growing bacteria could be involved (not just because I am kinky).

May i also add that I became ill abruptly after a 4 month long cycling/camping trip in France and Ireland, I had a red swollen knee, a typical EM rash, lots of tick-bites here there and everywhere, doctors in Sydney, Australia, rxed zinc cream to put on it! (you know the stuff surfers put on their noses to stop sunburns) told me it had nothing to do with my "illness" which according to them was psychosomatic, so Tony, excuse me for thinking Lyme is/was involved in the genesis of my demise.

If you care to search previous posts of mine, going as far back as last century on various lists, you will realise that I have always said loud and clear that I believed MULTIPLE pathogens were at play in most cases, and that they probably took turns for dominant position (cf Virginia Sherr's essay "a caroussel of microbes" for instance-see separate post).

I always tried to read up on various pathogens that I thought could be likely candidates, never closing the door on ANY if I thought there was a chance I could've picked them up, I don't think you, Tony, are even aware of how common some of these pathogens are, I don't think you want to know. Just to name a couple, do you realise how common and how persistant bartonellas, chlamydias and others can be? Do you realise that with the use of PCRs new ones (and old ones) are being found in heart valves that have been surgically removed for eg or at necropsy (when they can be bothered looking)?

I am not closing the door on YOUR (faster growing, abx resistant) bugs either, Tony, but pray tell me, (and I have asked you this before), how do I get my bugs identified and tested when my ID doctor, my GP are not willing to order further tests, and I can't blame them as the automated tests labs use never return anything anyway.

Another major point (not new but Tony does not hear) I want to make is: abx do not have a "Lyme" label stuck on them, abx do not know the name of the bugs they are targetting and neither do we in lots of cases. We can chose to say: I took A (abx) and it cured me of x (infection) but who knows? we took A (abx) and perhaps it cured us of x (infection) and/or y (infection), and/or z (infection).,

There is only a very finite number of abx available and a quasi infinite number of bugs, some that can be identified easily, some that can be identified with more difficulty and many many that are not even known. So regardless of what many doctors pretend to believe, most abx treatments are nothing more than a slightly educated shot in the dark, followed by clinically guided further empirical shots in the dark, if you have an intelligent doctor (if not you get screamed at and you get sent packing with a rx for an antidepressant).

Treating patients with abx for presumed bacterial infections is not the rigorous scientific exercise Tony seems to think it is, there are so many unknowns so many cascades of events which occur in-vivo that not many people are bothering to research apart from parrotting that "some abx have an anti-inflammatory effect, which is why you feel better on them".

So, in short, working backwards from your clinical response to abx A or abx B is just as (if not more) scientifically sound than observing what happens in a petri dish, but I think Tony and I agree totally on that one.

And I also agree on the Rocephin example, many people do not get well on just Rocephin, many improve for a few days, some then HERX (yes, they do) some don't, some stay better, some don't, some get worse etc. I believe the cause is a "carousel of microbes" and that includes parasites, viruses, fungi and tutti quanti

Sorry for the abrupt end but I am exhausted.

I am also very pissed off that was barred, very pissed off!

Nelly

[infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T WORK.> > > How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy doesn't > work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for > quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma was an > absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were offered > SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now have the > LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme > positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She waxes > and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and saved > her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting to fail > her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone going to > get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good for > three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up talking herx > for 8 months and 27 days.> Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was in the > library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was > suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and observations > of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated infection. The > other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's on is > the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce haemolysins > which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't optimal > look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of the lyme > for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this talk > and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing squat.You > think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr. > is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his should be > used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see people > progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this will > never occur because he is also another QUACK...> Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using cultures and > my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements > (percentages), bacterial growths heavy,medium,light.haemolysins in > cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At this point > I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk > candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts ma'm. > Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood culturesstaph > positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the treatment > resolves my symptoms.> > > > > > > >

[Guest guest]

Nelly

I am also upset that paul was given a cool down period. I can say

though I am happy it had nothing to do with me- it was occuring

before my first post.My enthusiaism came rrom andy wright's video

and how easily you can see that these organisms are large and take

the space of 4 red blood cells so when they are kicking your butt

you should be able to see them doing so using wright's microsocope.

Back to your query on the deep tissue bacteria.Deep tissue is so

irrelevant when we talk infection because BONE is the engine room to

manufacturing red blood cells, white blood cells, platelets. I think

organ biospy is the closest you get to deep tissue biopsy the

deepest biopsy being the bone marrow. You virtually won't get a

doctor going down next to your bone to biopsy it, it's basically not

on the medical menu board,muscle, kidney and liver do get biopsied.

So I can't say I can answer that query easily.

As far as bacteria and ilness goes I don't believe the stuff out

there because there are so many ill people without a clue what is

going on and when travelled those paths don't yield honest desirable

results.I'll give you a current egs. My uncle has spent the last 6

weeks in hospital in the ICU where he had a HUGE PNEUMONIA. The lab

report and the nurse assigned to him told me they aspirate swab

don't mess around at the ICU, and all they uncovered in his path

report was coag neg staph and very small growth staph areus

(insignificant).. He was on triple IV's I didn't know which ones but

the thing that rings out is the oppurtunistic bacteria seemed to

dominate and the treatment was possably guided towards

those.Chlamydia failed and a couple of other exotics where also not

there.This is a very fit human being that never drove a car and

walked everywhere and he was deathly ill first saying he wouldn't

pull thru but with his supreme infrastructure HUGE veins and strong

bones he defied everyone.So I suppose again I didn't answerr your

query but the importance of the bone biopsy as opposed to a tissue

biopsy is at either end of the spectrum.

Actually I believe that if your shoulder or elbow are given you hell

the bacteria are oozing out of those regions in large numbers.

You should be able to find what's on the surface deep inside the

bone as well.

> > Tony's back! Sigh! Here we go again with endless repetitious

> posts: " TREAT THE RIGHT BUGS WITH THE RIGHT ABX, YOU IDIOTS!! "

> >

> > That's Tony's one and only message.

> >

> > And as far as I understand people on this list, WE ALL AGREE!!!

> >

> > If anybody DISagrees with this please speak up NOW, then maybe

we

> won't have to go through endless tyrades that repeat the obvious

ad

> nauseum (whilst copiously insulting us, for good measure).

> >

> > So to save us all a lot of time, energy and aggro (in the

end), I

> shall ask a couple of questions Tony NEVER repies to:

> >

> >? (or do you consider that there aren't any, or that they are

the

> same bugs as the bugs you find by sticking a finger up your

nose?)

> >

> > 2) How do you get bugs that are very hard or near impossible

to

> grow (fastidious bacteria like bartonella or T Whipplei for eg)

even

> in highly sophisticated labs that do this all day with expensive

> equipment, to grow in your garage? (see short article below, but

> there are LOADS more)

> >

> > >My good friend from san fran tests 100 % lyme

> > >positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented.

> >

> > 3) Do you just brush Lyme and other bacteria off

as " unimportant "

> because you can't get to them and grow them on your Microbiology

101

> medium?

> >

> > 4) Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are in fact saying is:

> what I can't see doesn't exist, and if it doesn't exist it can't

> possibly be making me sick, so I treat the staph I am growing in

my

> ENT area, and in my mouth and in my blood because it is

accessible.

> How on earth do you know you are not in fact treating other

bacteria

> that you can't access, see, grow, test against abx?

> >

> > >How is anyone going to

> > >get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only good

for

> > >three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

talking

> herx

> > >for 8 months and 27 days.

> >

> > What makes you so sure Ceftriaxone is what chronic Lyme

patients

> favour? I don't know too many that are taking it these days

rightly

> or wrongly I don't know. Most people with Chronic Complex

Bacterial

> Infections due to arthropod/insect vectors or not) use several

abx

> in combo, in fact whatever works, are you Tony aware of this

fact

> before you start screaming at us for being stoopid?

> >

> > >The

> > >other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

on is

> > >the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

haemolysins

> > >which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

optimal

> > >look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

the

> lyme

> > >for a couple of weeks.

> >

> > What makes you think we are not aware of this? I think most

well-

> informed Lyme patients are painfully AWARE that Bb is not their

ONLY

> problem, we are doing exactly what you keep screaming at us for

not

> doing (except we had to stop antagonising our already stressed

out

> doctors by insisting that they demand that unwilling labs try

and

> grow staph which will be labelled as non-pathogenic anyway.)

> >

> > Nelly

> > [infections] WHEN THERAPY DOESN'T

WORK.

> >

> >

> > How can you sit here and preach gospel when the therapy

doesn't

> > work. Lyme is fictitious stuff that should be reserved for

> > quackwatch.I realised way early in the piece that mycoplasma

was

> an

> > absolute joke, the therapy was a joke, and the patients were

> offered

> > SUPPLEMENTS after they realised that it was USELESS.We now

have

> the

> > LYME LITERATES.My good friend from san fran tests 100 %

lyme

> > positive,yet the therapy that works isn't lyme oriented. She

> waxes

> > and wanes according to her staphylococcal sensitivities and

> saved

> > her brain recently-because her nervous system was starting

to

> fail

> > her by doing staphylocooccal oriented IV's.How is anyone

going

> to

> > get any help when your top lyme drug ceftriaxone is only

good

> for

> > three days against the staphylococci and you'll end up

talking

> herx

> > for 8 months and 27 days.

> > Why go the literature when it doesn't add up or exist. I was

in

> the

> > library frequently early on in my disease and realised I was

> > suffering a DISSEMINATED INFECTION.All the swings and

> observations

> > of temperature and blood counts point to disseminated

infection.

> The

> > other brain wave your all missing the forest for the tree's

on

> is

> > the HAEMOLYSINS, a disseminated infection can produce

> haemolysins

> > which destroy red cells so if your red cell counts aren't

> optimal

> > look for haemolysin producing bacterial species and lay of

the

> lyme

> > for a couple of weeks. This is the BIG PICTURE,that all this

> talk

> > and all the vide's and pictures your shown ain't adressing

> squat.You

> > think at 2000times magnification that the lyme video of Dr.

>

> > is some astronomical achievement. That microscope of his

should

> be

> > used patient after patient treatment after treatment to see

> people

> > progressing back to good health. I bet my bottom dollar this

> will

> > never occur because he is also another QUACK...

> > Myself personally I can't help anyone unless I'm using

cultures

> and

> > my microscope. Looking carefully at red cell attachements

> > (percentages), bacterial growths

heavy,medium,light.haemolysins

> in

> > cultures.This is GOOD SCIENCE that got me my life back.At

this

> point

> > I am my old self PRE ILNESS and I never sit back and talk

> > candidasyndrome, lyme syndrome, mycoplasma Just the facts

ma'm.

> > Blood culture staph positive, susbsequent rapid blood

> culturesstaph

> > positive. Why wouldn't I want to treat my staph when the

> treatment

> > resolves my symptoms.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >