Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Thanks , I couldn't agree more. I didn't want to make this call, and I did try to take it back channel, but continued to escalate the situation, making it personal and doing it in public despite my requests not to. It's not a constructive argument. It's hard for me, because I consider a friend and have been baffled for weeks by his anger at me, which began simply because I respond well to Benicar. That's what this all comes back to. Although I don't really think this is about me, or Benicar. I think this is about 's illness getting the better of him right now. I also agree that we've lost our sense of humor. A lot of this was definitely meant humorously and has been misconstrued. When I said " lyme light " that was totally a silly play on words, something the regular would have appreciated. Not meant as a disparaging comment. If someone wants to interpret something non specific as a personal slur, then they also need to take responsibility for their own perceptions, or lack of humor, and not automatically assume the worst of others. Durameter, we have a long history of friendly debate here without targeting individual people or accusing others of bad intentions or despicable agendas. That's what has been doing with increasing frequency lately, and it has been rapidly escalating the last couple of days. It's never happened before and I'd like to give him a chance to cool down and get some perspective. If, however, you can't see the distinction between debate and personal attacks on individuals, please find a board more fitting to your taste. I have temporarily banned for his own good until he can calm down and not do something he totally regrets. His words can't hurt me, and that's not why I'm doing it. I survived Trevor Marshall's wrath. I kept mainly quiet through that entire ordeal. I've been sued, threatened, had the list shut down, started another one and am still standing to tell the tale. This has always been about letting all points of view be expressed without making any of it personal. This is not about attacking individual people just because we don't agree with them. When personal attacks start happening, that's when people will be invited to leave. And Tony, please tone it down. Say what you want to say without disparaging comments, even if they're supposed to be funny or non specific and not directed at anyone in particular. We don't need the flames fanned right now. penny > I wish hadnt been suspended. I hope all this stuff can be worked > out with no hard feelings. Just try to realize its not that big of a > deal, and take the discussion to back-channel if need be. > > Irreverence, including jibes and bleak humor, is an integral part of > this list and a reference to the blinding " lymelight " should be taken > as a witty formulation, not offensive in the least. A suggestion that > some organism is getting too much attention from ill people may be > controversial, but is no huge deal, and if someone wants to counter > such a suggestion, just pony up some data and some inferences. It > would be great to have multiple people critically going over the > claims and bases of a " pandemic viewpoint " paper like the " Ancient > Engine " paper by Harvey and Salvato, which is free online. We would > all stand to be edified. > > Meanwhile, I'm glad Tonys back, but randomly calling lyme borreliosis > a bunch of hooey is just nonsense, its like calling the sky orange, > and is unhelpful to people. So Ive pointed out the observation that > isolated Bb causes erythema migrans rash and persistant infection in > macaque monkeys just as it does in humans - many of whose chronic > disease began with EM rash. And Barb taught us all, months ago, that > you cant see spirochetes on a normal brightfield setup like Tonys > because their thickness is below the resolution (darkfield > " exaggerates " thicknesses). If others who are PO'd by Tony (or > whoever) also just point out some concrete observations regarding > borreliosis or whatever, who knows, we may be able to issue him a Bb > PhD in the near future. We all know how bad he wants one, deep down... > those who know him only from public postings would be shocked by how > many times he emailed me begging for a xerox of my copy of the newest > ILADS guidelines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Penny, didnt mean to get after you as person, I think hes just freaked about the lyme political situation, which I am too. Here the dude is dying of an obvious infection, and to get treatment he has to jabber on the phone with the Breaurocratic Wall of Yawns all day while hoping he wont lose consciousness when they put him on hold - this in the most advanced province of the richest country in the world. (And even when his anti-seizure meds are working he can barely communicate normally anyway in real time.) Its obviously pretty Kafkaesque, as is Barbs story of living in a time when you were administered to by a priesthood who could deny you access to your own medical records, and some soft " autoimmune " dx would get you typecast forever. s illness may have gotten the better of him recently in some small way, but I know it would have gotten the better of me a long ass time ago in a big, big way. And then Benicar... I'm no expert on Benicar, but unless the risks are really really severe(?) its hard to fault you for mentioning the drug once or twice without getting into its experimentality, risks, etc, which are or have been discussed here often, and are open topics as is everything/anything relevant. You cant really be expected to tape a note on your computer reminding you to mention the risks/unknowns every time you mention youre feeling well on Benicar, when theres no indication that anyone reading here doesnt know about them or how to inquire about them. Anyway I hope this can all be undone and forgotten about rapidly, our camaraderie here is too valuble... > Thanks , > > I couldn't agree more. I didn't want to make this call, and I did > try to take it back channel, but continued to escalate the > situation, making it personal and doing it in public despite my > requests not to. It's not a constructive argument. It's hard for me, > because I consider a friend and have been baffled for weeks by > his anger at me, which began simply because I respond well to > Benicar. That's what this all comes back to. Although I don't really > think this is about me, or Benicar. I think this is about 's > illness getting the better of him right now. > > I also agree that we've lost our sense of humor. A lot of this was > definitely meant humorously and has been misconstrued. When I > said " lyme light " that was totally a silly play on words, something > the regular would have appreciated. Not meant as a disparaging > comment. If someone wants to interpret something non specific as a > personal slur, then they also need to take responsibility for their > own perceptions, or lack of humor, and not automatically assume the > worst of others. > > Durameter, we have a long history of friendly debate here without > targeting individual people or accusing others of bad intentions or > despicable agendas. That's what has been doing with increasing > frequency lately, and it has been rapidly escalating the last couple > of days. It's never happened before and I'd like to give him a > chance to cool down and get some perspective. > > If, however, you can't see the distinction between debate and > personal attacks on individuals, please find a board more fitting to > your taste. > > I have temporarily banned for his own good until he can calm > down and not do something he totally regrets. His words can't hurt > me, and that's not why I'm doing it. I survived Trevor Marshall's > wrath. I kept mainly quiet through that entire ordeal. I've been > sued, threatened, had the list shut down, started another one and am > still standing to tell the tale. This has always been about letting > all points of view be expressed without making any of it personal. > This is not about attacking individual people just because we don't > agree with them. When personal attacks start happening, that's when > people will be invited to leave. > > And Tony, please tone it down. Say what you want to say without > disparaging comments, even if they're supposed to be funny or non > specific and not directed at anyone in particular. We don't need the > flames fanned right now. > > penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 17, 2005 Report Share Posted May 17, 2005 Well said, , I'm sure there's plenty of misunderstandings to go around for everybody. I'm very sympathetic to 's situation. And to many others like him. I've had friends die from this and sometimes I think I'm dying, so it's hard to not go off the deep end every once in a while. We've all been there I think. Let's just try to get back to some semblance of normalcy asap, and welcome back when he's ready. penny > > Thanks , > > > > I couldn't agree more. I didn't want to make this call, and I did > > try to take it back channel, but continued to escalate the > > situation, making it personal and doing it in public despite my > > requests not to. It's not a constructive argument. It's hard for me, > > because I consider a friend and have been baffled for weeks by > > his anger at me, which began simply because I respond well to > > Benicar. That's what this all comes back to. Although I don't really > > think this is about me, or Benicar. I think this is about 's > > illness getting the better of him right now. > > > > I also agree that we've lost our sense of humor. A lot of this was > > definitely meant humorously and has been misconstrued. When I > > said " lyme light " that was totally a silly play on words, something > > the regular would have appreciated. Not meant as a disparaging > > comment. If someone wants to interpret something non specific as a > > personal slur, then they also need to take responsibility for their > > own perceptions, or lack of humor, and not automatically assume the > > worst of others. > > > > Durameter, we have a long history of friendly debate here without > > targeting individual people or accusing others of bad intentions or > > despicable agendas. That's what has been doing with increasing > > frequency lately, and it has been rapidly escalating the last couple > > of days. It's never happened before and I'd like to give him a > > chance to cool down and get some perspective. > > > > If, however, you can't see the distinction between debate and > > personal attacks on individuals, please find a board more fitting to > > your taste. > > > > I have temporarily banned for his own good until he can calm > > down and not do something he totally regrets. His words can't hurt > > me, and that's not why I'm doing it. I survived Trevor Marshall's > > wrath. I kept mainly quiet through that entire ordeal. I've been > > sued, threatened, had the list shut down, started another one and am > > still standing to tell the tale. This has always been about letting > > all points of view be expressed without making any of it personal. > > This is not about attacking individual people just because we don't > > agree with them. When personal attacks start happening, that's when > > people will be invited to leave. > > > > And Tony, please tone it down. Say what you want to say without > > disparaging comments, even if they're supposed to be funny or non > > specific and not directed at anyone in particular. We don't need the > > flames fanned right now. > > > > penny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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