Jaep -- re-post

[Guest guest]

, below is 1071 (replied to by Rich in 1112). I made one other

post mentioning heavy metals - it just said that PMID 10334427 is the

finding Cheney mentioned on superconcentration of heavy metals in the

heart in idiopathic dilated cardiomyopathy. I got the full text of

that paper and will report on it soon if I can understand it.

BTW, thanks alot for turning me on to http://www.signaling-gateway.org

- its rad.

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Those are indeed some nice tallies with your ideas - you must be

having a field day with this stuff

I think Cheney might be interested in hearing your take. I just

reviewed his stuff and I understand it better now than I did earlier

today. While he emphasizes that this is merely what he'd wager on, in

the idea he's putting forward, the heavy metal accumulation in the

heart IS the lasting damage left by the cardiotropic pathogen - and I

think he's saying that there isnt necessarily heart tissue damage in

the " normal " sense. That's what I didnt grasp earlier today.

And I think he's saying that this accumulation of heavy metal in the

heart is what makes the heart super sensitive to NO, because the heavy

metal can interfere with SOD, thus causing the increase in superoxide,

which is the rate-limiting contributer to the formation of

peroxynitrate in the presence of NO.

So its cardiotropic infection (maybe) >> astronomical heavy metal

concentrations in the heart, in the absence of effective detox >>

inability to avert peroxynitrate production - ?

But from here I get confused. Is he hinting that peroxynitrate then

damages heart tissue progressively by oxidative cytotoxicity? Also,

its unclear where the high expression of NO is coming from. Cheney

hints at iNOS as the probable source, and hints at " immune activation "

due to antigen as the cause of iNOS expression - which presumably

means theres a chronic infection (this one not necessarily very

cardiotropic).

And he doesnt get into the chronic infection part really at all, so

maybe hes at a bit of a loss there and would be interested in trying

out in some of your ideas, Rich, at this point way up at the

headwaters of the causal stream.

Personally, I had a broken mercury thermometer in my bag for probably

a full week when I was living in the woods. I had only a lawn tarp to

keep the very thick mosquitos off me - so every night for a week I

slept basically *sealed* into a very small space with this mercury. I

then moved into a house and promptly spilled the same mercury from my

bag onto the carpet (which is how I first discovered it). This was 3

years before I even started to slowly get CFIDS and I had no medical

or biological knowledge but I knew this was bad. I ran a fan in the

room the whole rest of the summer with another window open for intake,

and I did a 24h urine specimin - it was " negative " for excessive Hg,

but we all know that some medical determinations are alot better

founded than others...

Anyway, I still dont see how all this gets a person swollen glands (I

know no theory is nearly perfect so far, eg the most advanced and

speculative understanding of lyme disease leaves some VERY odd ends,

but I'm just sayin').

And personally I am definitely going to read the paper Cheney cited on

Hg in the heart, but I still think one might find serious vasculitis

if some of these hearts were to be cut up, and that might be the

bottom of all this. Which leads me to wonder, what did Cheney do with

his old heart? Seems a pity to toss it out - one should do some

histology on it, and a heavy metal assay! Speaking of which, if anyone

on this list dies, please have yourself mailed to my house (except

Rich, who doesnt have A-CID).