Re: One year update with Benicar

[Guest guest]

That's great Penny! Making progress is good, even if slow at times.

Most of us didn't get this sick in a few weeks, more like years. So

still not feeling normal after a year is probably par for the course.

I have a few of questions. Are you a diligent cave dweller? When you

go outside in the light do you notice a difference? Do you wear your

NOIRs religiously and finally do you take the recommended doses of

Benicar or have you altered them?

> Hi all,

>

> I would like to report that I finally seem to be improving again,

> once I kicked that endless Upper Respiratory/sinus problem. The

> Zithromax has slowly conquered it although I still get some

residual

> allergy type episodes (which I've never experienced before). I'm

> wondering if it's fungal, even though I've been doing diflucan

every

> day for weeks now. One of the things that worried me was that I

had

> a stiff neck along with that whole respiratory business. The stiff

> neck is finally starting to improve but has been disheartening,

> because up 'til then, Benicar had taken care of my life-long stiff

> neck problem. This stiff neck was in a different place, and the

> Benicar didn't help much. I " ve been worried that the bugs have

moved

> and found a new entry point, and perhaps the Benicar somehow aided

> that.

>

> On the other hand, I've been on Benicar for a whole year now, and

as

> unpopular as the topic may be, it has truly been life changing. My

> migraines are almost non-existent, all of the lower body and joint

> pain I had is gone. My brain isn't foggy anymore. I'm still

sleeping

> better. The anxiety is still way down. Urgent bladder's still

gone.

>

> The problems I continue to have are still varying degrees of

severe

> fatigue, along with pain in my shoulders, upper arms and right

elbow

> region. It's not nearly as bad as it was, but it's still not good,

> and the pain in my shoulders is still severe enough that I can't

> sleep on my side comfortably (which causes a lot of tossing and

> turning, since I'm a side-sleeper).

>

> The only other possible negative effect I can see from the Benicar

> is that I think I may be having some adrenal issues. Some of my

old,

> bizarre adrenal symtpoms are returning in a mild form (it's like

an

> internal allergy attack with severe INTERNAL itching). B-complex

> vitamins definitely relieve these episodes, so I do believe the

> concerns regarding Benicar and Alderosterone, etc., are legitimate

> concerns which should be considered and researched. I haven't been

> to my doc yet to be tested (just too tired until these last few

> days), but the fact that the Bs relieve the symptoms is a good

> indicator to me. Also, I've found that the old standbys of

> magnesium, potassium, sodium and chloride are helping my symptoms.

I

> think this is probably somehow tied to the Benicar, but all in

all,

> for me, the Benicar has been a life-saver. If it weren't for the

> severe fatigue, I'd feel like a pretty healthy person with a

> shoulder problem. The fatigue is what keeps me real. And the

excess

> weight around my middle. :-)

>

> penny

[Guest guest]

" jellybelly92008 " wrote:

I have a few of questions. Are you a diligent cave dweller? When you

> go outside in the light do you notice a difference? Do you wear

your NOIRs religiously and finally do you take the recommended doses

of Benicar or have you altered them?

No way! I'm not doing the Military Police-protocol at all. I haven't

been for the majority of the year. I don't avoid the sun, I don't

avoid D, I don't take minocycline (can't tolerate it at all), and I

don't do low-dose abx.

I take full dose antibiotics (with no severe herxing), and 3x daily

Benicar.

The only thing about the protocol that worked for me is the Benicar.

And the way that worked was HUGE! The other big benefit was the

realization that I've got an out-of-control inflammatory process

that's been really damaging to my body.

To be honest (and it was terribly disappointing), I fairly quickly

reached the opinion that the protocol was seriously flawed, --a

bunch of assertions made to fit a theory. But that is most

definitely MY OPINION! Mileage may vary, as they say.

IMO, it's unfortunate that Martial Law was imposed, and lawsuits

threatened (and filed) and discussion groups shut down, because if

none of that had happened, patients and doctors both would probably

be a lot less critical of the protocol, --more willing to explore

the possibilities. But the street rep is not good at this point.

Nobody likes dogma or dictatorship or litigation, especially when it

comes to this illness. We've had enough to deal with. So it looks

like the baby may have been thrown out with the bath water. :-(

Hopefully, research into ARBs will birth a new baby.

penny

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I would like to report that I finally seem to be improving

again,

> > once I kicked that endless Upper Respiratory/sinus problem. The

> > Zithromax has slowly conquered it although I still get some

> residual

> > allergy type episodes (which I've never experienced before). I'm

> > wondering if it's fungal, even though I've been doing diflucan

> every

> > day for weeks now. One of the things that worried me was that I

> had

> > a stiff neck along with that whole respiratory business. The

stiff

> > neck is finally starting to improve but has been disheartening,

> > because up 'til then, Benicar had taken care of my life-long

stiff

> > neck problem. This stiff neck was in a different place, and the

> > Benicar didn't help much. I " ve been worried that the bugs have

> moved

> > and found a new entry point, and perhaps the Benicar somehow

aided

> > that.

> >

> > On the other hand, I've been on Benicar for a whole year now,

and

> as

> > unpopular as the topic may be, it has truly been life changing.

My

> > migraines are almost non-existent, all of the lower body and

joint

> > pain I had is gone. My brain isn't foggy anymore. I'm still

> sleeping

> > better. The anxiety is still way down. Urgent bladder's still

> gone.

> >

> > The problems I continue to have are still varying degrees of

> severe

> > fatigue, along with pain in my shoulders, upper arms and right

> elbow

> > region. It's not nearly as bad as it was, but it's still not

good,

> > and the pain in my shoulders is still severe enough that I can't

> > sleep on my side comfortably (which causes a lot of tossing and

> > turning, since I'm a side-sleeper).

> >

> > The only other possible negative effect I can see from the

Benicar

> > is that I think I may be having some adrenal issues. Some of my

> old,

> > bizarre adrenal symtpoms are returning in a mild form (it's like

> an

> > internal allergy attack with severe INTERNAL itching). B-complex

> > vitamins definitely relieve these episodes, so I do believe the

> > concerns regarding Benicar and Alderosterone, etc., are

legitimate

> > concerns which should be considered and researched. I haven't

been

> > to my doc yet to be tested (just too tired until these last few

> > days), but the fact that the Bs relieve the symptoms is a good

> > indicator to me. Also, I've found that the old standbys of

> > magnesium, potassium, sodium and chloride are helping my

symptoms.

> I

> > think this is probably somehow tied to the Benicar, but all in

> all,

> > for me, the Benicar has been a life-saver. If it weren't for the

> > severe fatigue, I'd feel like a pretty healthy person with a

> > shoulder problem. The fatigue is what keeps me real. And the

> excess

> > weight around my middle. :-)

> >

> > penny

[Guest guest]

Penny wrote in part:

" No way! I'm not doing the Military Police-protocol at all. I

haven't been for the majority of the year. I don't avoid the sun, I

don't avoid D, I don't take minocycline (can't tolerate it at all),

and I don't do low-dose abx. "

Penny, I am glad you state this clearly. I am concerned that your

reports on Benicar could lead patients to erroneous conclusions.

It's not simple, when you are talking about a component of the

Unnameable Protocol, which has become steeped in dubious claims.

There is no guarantee that you would be enjoying the same benefits

if you were observing D-deprivation, and a good chance you would be

experiencing some harm.

Personally, as happy as I am for you to obtain this symptom relief I

don't find it persuasive that Benicar is helping you to get well,

and continue to worry that it may be doing you some subtle but

perhaps lasting harm. That is my gut feeling.

I said the other day I don't believe in questioning personal medical

choices, and I meant that. I will not put myself in the position of

judging whether your individual decision to risk this high-dose ARB

treatment is well-advised.

But as soon as you become an example for others, we aren't talking

about your judgment anymore and I feel comfortable saying 'hey, be

careful, because neither Penny no anyone else knows what those high

doses of Benicar are doing, or what price in long-term prognosis is

being paid for these short term improvements in symptoms.'

I am right, am I not, that the gains are short-term, and disappear

if you stop the Benicar?

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > I would like to report that I finally seem to be improving

> again,

> > > once I kicked that endless Upper Respiratory/sinus problem.

The

> > > Zithromax has slowly conquered it although I still get some

> > residual

> > > allergy type episodes (which I've never experienced before).

I'm

> > > wondering if it's fungal, even though I've been doing diflucan

> > every

> > > day for weeks now. One of the things that worried me was that

I

> > had

> > > a stiff neck along with that whole respiratory business. The

> stiff

> > > neck is finally starting to improve but has been

disheartening,

> > > because up 'til then, Benicar had taken care of my life-long

> stiff

> > > neck problem. This stiff neck was in a different place, and

the

> > > Benicar didn't help much. I " ve been worried that the bugs have

> > moved

> > > and found a new entry point, and perhaps the Benicar somehow

> aided

> > > that.

> > >

> > > On the other hand, I've been on Benicar for a whole year now,

> and

> > as

> > > unpopular as the topic may be, it has truly been life

changing.

> My

> > > migraines are almost non-existent, all of the lower body and

> joint

> > > pain I had is gone. My brain isn't foggy anymore. I'm still

> > sleeping

> > > better. The anxiety is still way down. Urgent bladder's still

> > gone.

> > >

> > > The problems I continue to have are still varying degrees of

> > severe

> > > fatigue, along with pain in my shoulders, upper arms and right

> > elbow

> > > region. It's not nearly as bad as it was, but it's still not

> good,

> > > and the pain in my shoulders is still severe enough that I

can't

> > > sleep on my side comfortably (which causes a lot of tossing

and

> > > turning, since I'm a side-sleeper).

> > >

> > > The only other possible negative effect I can see from the

> Benicar

> > > is that I think I may be having some adrenal issues. Some of

my

> > old,

> > > bizarre adrenal symtpoms are returning in a mild form (it's

like

> > an

> > > internal allergy attack with severe INTERNAL itching). B-

complex

> > > vitamins definitely relieve these episodes, so I do believe

the

> > > concerns regarding Benicar and Alderosterone, etc., are

> legitimate

> > > concerns which should be considered and researched. I haven't

> been

> > > to my doc yet to be tested (just too tired until these last

few

> > > days), but the fact that the Bs relieve the symptoms is a good

> > > indicator to me. Also, I've found that the old standbys of

> > > magnesium, potassium, sodium and chloride are helping my

> symptoms.

> > I

> > > think this is probably somehow tied to the Benicar, but all in

> > all,

> > > for me, the Benicar has been a life-saver. If it weren't for

the

> > > severe fatigue, I'd feel like a pretty healthy person with a

> > > shoulder problem. The fatigue is what keeps me real. And the

> > excess

> > > weight around my middle. :-)

> > >

> > > penny

[Guest guest]

,

I have never claimed that the ARB, Benicar is " curing " me. I'm

reporting that the massive reduction in symtpoms has not diminished

and that my quality of life has improved over the last year. If not

for the fatigue, I'd probably perceive myself to be a healthy

person. A year ago, there's no way I could have said that. I felt

like I was completely falling apart. Breaking down.

I think the pendelum may have swung too far and the ARBs are not

getting fair consideration at all now. They're likely getting a more

negative rep than they deserve (at least so far), because of the

personalities involved. Not objective research.

It's quite true that there may be risks associated with Benicar, but

I know a lot of people taking a lot of drugs for symptom control

which I believe are very harmful. Addictive pain killers come to

mind. And even though they may relieve certain symtpoms, they have

scary KNOWN side effects. In this sense, Benicar has been far

superior to any other drug or supplement I've ever taken.

Yes, when the Benicar wears off, some of my symptoms return, but not

all. That's the good news. The lower-body pain is almost entirely

gone now. Even the knee pain that was pretty constant before, almost

never flares, even when sitting cross legged for hours. Before

Benicar, I could barely raise my arms, now the range of motion is

much improved. The pain less. Some of the damage is actually being

reversed. When the Benicar wears off, pain starts coming back,

mostly in my neck. But you have to remember, I've had neck pain

since elementary school. That's decades worth of damage. Actually,

the symptom that returns first, even before the pain, is the

slight " teeth chattering " . Another thing I've had since childhood.

I know my inflammatory processes are still alive and kicking. And

that if left to their own devices, with no intervention, the actual

physcial healing I've achieved would probably reverse itself. I know

I've still got a deeply entrenched infection, and that the

inflammation is a result of that. I still have some erratic heart

symtpoms, I sometimes " buzz " when I lie down, and my left hand still

trembles when I try to hold a book with it. These are signs that all

is not well, but I imagine those wouldn't concern me all that much,

quality of life wise, compared to all the symptoms I no longer

struggle with, if I didn't have the relentless fatigue.

I have two concerns about Benicar at this point, based on my own

personal experience. One, that it MAY have an effect on the

adrenals, and Two, that it MAY impede immunity against viruses. I've

had a really tough time kicking the last two colds I've gotten which

both occurred since Benicar, after having gone something like 10

years pretty much cold free. (which isn't natural either).

, I'd trade all the migraines, pain, anxiety, and lack of sleep,

for these risks. At this point, I'm just looking for a little

quality of life. My adrenals are screwed up anyway. Relieving the

anxiety has to help to some degree. Not being in constant pain has

to have a positive effect on my overall well being. Not having

migraines is HUGE for me. Being able to sleep well is Huge.

And this symptom relief has lasted consistently for one year, all

because of the Benicar. It's the first thing I " ve taken that hasn't

lost its effectiveness. And even when the fatigue is really severe,

I don't have the same kind of brain fog that used to accompnay it.

Yeah, I'll get mentally tired along with being physically tired, but

it's nothing like it was, where I felt I was swimming in jello,

losing my ability to even understand what people were talking about.

Couldn't possibly understand the instructions on how to insert a

battery, let alone program an electronic device.

The truth is, whether you want to hear it or not, is that Benicar

has reduced my symtpoms tremendously. And considering where I've

been, I'm very grateful for that.

At this point, I'm very frustrated that the person who brought

Benicar to our attention, had to be so egocentric and dictatorial

that he ended up ruining the possibilities of it for most people.

On the other hand, Moscowitz was using another ARB, and no one was

paying much attention. I suppose it takes a big brou-ha-ha to get

people to notice.

penny

> > > > Hi all,

> > > >

> > > > I would like to report that I finally seem to be improving

> > again,

> > > > once I kicked that endless Upper Respiratory/sinus problem.

> The

> > > > Zithromax has slowly conquered it although I still get some

> > > residual

> > > > allergy type episodes (which I've never experienced before).

> I'm

> > > > wondering if it's fungal, even though I've been doing

diflucan

> > > every

> > > > day for weeks now. One of the things that worried me was

that

> I

> > > had

> > > > a stiff neck along with that whole respiratory business. The

> > stiff

> > > > neck is finally starting to improve but has been

> disheartening,

> > > > because up 'til then, Benicar had taken care of my life-long

> > stiff

> > > > neck problem. This stiff neck was in a different place, and

> the

> > > > Benicar didn't help much. I " ve been worried that the bugs

have

> > > moved

> > > > and found a new entry point, and perhaps the Benicar somehow

> > aided

> > > > that.

> > > >

> > > > On the other hand, I've been on Benicar for a whole year

now,

> > and

> > > as

> > > > unpopular as the topic may be, it has truly been life

> changing.

> > My

> > > > migraines are almost non-existent, all of the lower body and

> > joint

> > > > pain I had is gone. My brain isn't foggy anymore. I'm still

> > > sleeping

> > > > better. The anxiety is still way down. Urgent bladder's

still

> > > gone.

> > > >

> > > > The problems I continue to have are still varying degrees of

> > > severe

> > > > fatigue, along with pain in my shoulders, upper arms and

right

> > > elbow

> > > > region. It's not nearly as bad as it was, but it's still not

> > good,

> > > > and the pain in my shoulders is still severe enough that I

> can't

> > > > sleep on my side comfortably (which causes a lot of tossing

> and

> > > > turning, since I'm a side-sleeper).

> > > >

> > > > The only other possible negative effect I can see from the

> > Benicar

> > > > is that I think I may be having some adrenal issues. Some of

> my

> > > old,

> > > > bizarre adrenal symtpoms are returning in a mild form (it's

> like

> > > an

> > > > internal allergy attack with severe INTERNAL itching). B-

> complex

> > > > vitamins definitely relieve these episodes, so I do believe

> the

> > > > concerns regarding Benicar and Alderosterone, etc., are

> > legitimate

> > > > concerns which should be considered and researched. I

haven't

> > been

> > > > to my doc yet to be tested (just too tired until these last

> few

> > > > days), but the fact that the Bs relieve the symptoms is a

good

> > > > indicator to me. Also, I've found that the old standbys of

> > > > magnesium, potassium, sodium and chloride are helping my

> > symptoms.

> > > I

> > > > think this is probably somehow tied to the Benicar, but all

in

> > > all,

> > > > for me, the Benicar has been a life-saver. If it weren't for

> the

> > > > severe fatigue, I'd feel like a pretty healthy person with a

> > > > shoulder problem. The fatigue is what keeps me real. And the

> > > excess

> > > > weight around my middle. :-)

> > > >

> > > > penny