my IV league education - was lyme physical causes somethin or other

[Guest guest]

Jill, I'm so glad you included your 'mix' of nutrients! I was trying

to remember earlier today why I don't pound down the B vitamins.

It's just what you said, even the sublingual b-12 was producing

this 'energy' that was too jittery and spastic to be useable.

I wonder if its any different, though, when the mode of

administration is IV...I can't recall having any bad effects from

the magnesium B-12 IVs they gave me back in 2003, just no benefits

either. Maybe all the short-term effects canceled each other out or

something. Or maybe there's an adjustment period.

Hey Jess, didn't you tell me your first glutathione ride was kinda

bumpy?

> > >

> > >

> > > > attributed to direct action of extracellular OSPs on

macrophage

> > > > signalling.

> > > >

> > > > This finding is what gave rise to my 'hiding in plain sight'

> > > > analogy, that by directing the immune system to act against

> host

> > > > cells, rather than bugs, the spirochetes are able to avoid

> being

> > > > targeted by antibodies even in those parts of the body where

> > > > macrophages, the white knights of the immune system, are on

> > active

> > > > duty.

> > > >

> > > > I believe this helps to explain why those who have very bad,

> > > > symptomatic Lyme often have low levels of antibodies, while

> > those

> > > > who are fairly asymptomatic often have significantly higher

> > levels.

> > >

> > >

> > > I wish it were this clean/obvious, but I had sky high

antibodies

> > in

> > > the first six months or so (I kept retesting after treating),

> > really

> > > unbelievably high. And my own doctor had had it twice, and

> > monitored

> > > his treatment by his antibodies coming down. Doxy had no

impact

> on

> > > the antibodies and I was incredibly highly symptomatic at the

> > time,

> > > in a great deal of physical pain and all kinds of weird scary

> > > symptoms.

> > >

> > > I might test much more 'anergic' now, I think after a long

time

> > your

> > > body stops fighting as hard.

> > >

> > >

> > > ..

> > > >

> > > > Why would spirochetes have evolved OSPs that induce this

> > behavior

> > > in

> > > > macrophages, unless it serves their survival?

> > >

> > > I agree unless, sadly and badly, they are bioweaponized by

humans

> > who

> > > just want to cause other humans pain, plain and simple.

> > >

> > >

> > > >> I keep thinking we need something like a vaccine, that

would

> > > assist

> > > > antibody production, but we all know what happened the last

> time

> > > > someone manufactured a Lyme vaccine...

> > >

> > > YEah but they did an OspA vaccine and that's mostly expressed

in

> > the

> > > tickgut. THe OspC vaccine was squelched. A vaccine is a good

idea

> > if

> > > it can be made to some antigen that is unchanging and on the

> > surface,

> > > not hidden.

> > >

> > > >

> > > > One of the questions I have about all this is whether one

can

> > > > distinguish in some clear way between this cytokine-fueled

> > > > inflammation and the inflammation generated by endotoxin. I

> fear

> > > the

> > > > answer may be 'no', because as I understand it borrelial

> > endotoxin

> > > > is pretty much the same stuff they carry on the surface,

> there's

> > > > just a lot more of it sandwiched between layers of membrane,

> > that

> > > is

> > > > released when the bugs get zapped.

> > >

> > > I think you're probably right.

> > >

> > > > If only there was a way to kill the buggers while keeping

them

> > > > intact, and sweeping the corpses out of our bodies like the

> > > > hazardous biomedical waste product they are, at least semi-

> > > > contained. Like bagging dog-doo in the park - you don't want

to

> > > > disturb that crap, you just want to get it intact in a bag

and

> > hold

> > > > it away from you till you can get to a trash can.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Or find a way to stop their replication, that is a nice and

quiet

> > way

> > > to slowly get rid of them.

[Guest guest]

scha,

You should compliment your memory. Yes, my first IV with glutathione

[2002] was more than bumpy -- but it was glutathione and alpha lipoic

acid [ALA] mixed together. I had convulsions and hallucinations --

very scary. The problem seems to have been the ALA. ALA crosses the

BBB and moves mercury around, if not out of the body. Glutathione can

also help move mercury and the two together was well more than my

central nervous system could handle at the time.*

That was why my Doc and I weren't chomping at the bit to try

glutathione again, despite it testing low and despite it being

recommended for me.

I'm sure glad we finally did it though! The only problem I've

encountered in my series of glutathione IV's is an " inner

tremulousness " after one or two of them. I've worried that I'm

verging on mobilizing mercury again, though I'm not sure. We keep

muscle testing before each one, that gives me some reassurance.

I'm now doing two glutathione IV's a week followed by 3-4 days of

chelating, then a Vitamin IV(C, B's, Mg, & Taurine), and back to the

glutathione again.

I think Rich's theory has a lot of validity for me, and probably many

of us. Glutathione can be depleted for a number of reasons, but once

it is low -- your defenses are blown and you are an open target for

any number of nefarious nasties to come on in and take over, whether

a toxin, bacteria, virus and/or the dreaded spirochete -- and it's

probably a combination of the above. Once in, they help keep

glutathione low, (by constantly using up the supply), and you are

then continually relegated to a struggling defense. I'm sure this is

a gross oversimplification. But I do feel like I've finally, finally,

(after 11 years), shifted over to the offense.

Glutathione is hailed as:

-Boosting Immunity

-Evicting Environmental Toxins

-Increasing Energy

-Lengthening Longevity

-Combating Cancer & Much More...,

on the cover of " The GSH Phenomenon " by Alan Pressman, PhD. He says

glutathione " may be the most critical single chemical in determining

disease or health. "

If so, you would be wise to continue your lament until you... get..

your...glutathione...NOW!

What I'm finding is that suddenly everything I'm taking seems to be

working better. I notice if I miss supplements, where before I wasn't

sure if they were really helping. And I'm needing less hormone

supplementation, even less Cortef -- which is a nice surprise.

The world sure looks different when you have reason to believe that

significant recovery is more than a theoretic possibility.

I want this feeling for everybody here!

Jess

* I don't believe there is any specific concern with glutathione and

lyme. It is the sulpher/thiols in GSH that combines with mercury and

creates an issue.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > > attributed to direct action of extracellular OSPs on

> macrophage

> > > > > signalling.

> > > > >

> > > > > This finding is what gave rise to my 'hiding in plain

sight'

> > > > > analogy, that by directing the immune system to act against

> > host

> > > > > cells, rather than bugs, the spirochetes are able to avoid

> > being

> > > > > targeted by antibodies even in those parts of the body

where

> > > > > macrophages, the white knights of the immune system, are on

> > > active

> > > > > duty.

> > > > >

> > > > > I believe this helps to explain why those who have very

bad,

> > > > > symptomatic Lyme often have low levels of antibodies, while

> > > those

> > > > > who are fairly asymptomatic often have significantly higher

> > > levels.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > I wish it were this clean/obvious, but I had sky high

> antibodies

> > > in

> > > > the first six months or so (I kept retesting after treating),

> > > really

> > > > unbelievably high. And my own doctor had had it twice, and

> > > monitored

> > > > his treatment by his antibodies coming down. Doxy had no

> impact

> > on

> > > > the antibodies and I was incredibly highly symptomatic at the

> > > time,

> > > > in a great deal of physical pain and all kinds of weird scary

> > > > symptoms.

> > > >

> > > > I might test much more 'anergic' now, I think after a long

> time

> > > your

> > > > body stops fighting as hard.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > ..

> > > > >

> > > > > Why would spirochetes have evolved OSPs that induce this

> > > behavior

> > > > in

> > > > > macrophages, unless it serves their survival?

> > > >

> > > > I agree unless, sadly and badly, they are bioweaponized by

> humans

> > > who

> > > > just want to cause other humans pain, plain and simple.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > >> I keep thinking we need something like a vaccine, that

> would

> > > > assist

> > > > > antibody production, but we all know what happened the last

> > time

> > > > > someone manufactured a Lyme vaccine...

> > > >

> > > > YEah but they did an OspA vaccine and that's mostly expressed

> in

> > > the

> > > > tickgut. THe OspC vaccine was squelched. A vaccine is a good

> idea

> > > if

> > > > it can be made to some antigen that is unchanging and on the

> > > surface,

> > > > not hidden.

> > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > One of the questions I have about all this is whether one

> can

> > > > > distinguish in some clear way between this cytokine-fueled

> > > > > inflammation and the inflammation generated by endotoxin. I

> > fear

> > > > the

> > > > > answer may be 'no', because as I understand it borrelial

> > > endotoxin

> > > > > is pretty much the same stuff they carry on the surface,

> > there's

> > > > > just a lot more of it sandwiched between layers of

membrane,

> > > that

> > > > is

> > > > > released when the bugs get zapped.

> > > >

> > > > I think you're probably right.

> > > >

> > > > > If only there was a way to kill the buggers while keeping

> them

> > > > > intact, and sweeping the corpses out of our bodies like the

> > > > > hazardous biomedical waste product they are, at least semi-

> > > > > contained. Like bagging dog-doo in the park - you don't

want

> to

> > > > > disturb that crap, you just want to get it intact in a bag

> and

> > > hold

> > > > > it away from you till you can get to a trash can.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Or find a way to stop their replication, that is a nice and

> quiet

> > > way

> > > > to slowly get rid of them.