Re: Symptoms worse after eating chicken???

[Guest guest]

Jelly:

I would need it explained to me how the abx could still be in active

form thru the slaughtering and cooking process.

Barb

> I was talking to a friend today who has FM and she has a dughter who

> seems to have MS. She said something that got me thinking. She asked

> me if my symtoms get worse when I chicken, because hers definetly do.

> My first thought was, I wonder if she could be herxing from the ABX

> that are given to chickens on a routine basis. Before I could finish

> my thought, she said and " Ya know it doesn't happen if I eat chicken

> from the health food store " . Not all health food stores

> carry " organic " chicken, but they still usually try to carry foods

> that are not treated with hormones, ABX or pesticides.

>

> Wouldn't it be interesting if the ABX in foods are not enough to

> really kill pathogens to the degree we need, but they might some how

> play a part in weakening our immune system enough to get in. OR the

> ABX are in such small amounts in meats and poultry that, that in

> itself tends to cause super bugs.

[Guest guest]

Barb

I don't know about how ABX would survive that process, but I do know

that hormones survive a do cause us problems. A single glass of milk

is loaded with the left overs of numerous hormones. I read about

this in the book " Patient Heal Thyself " . It was amazing, and is the

reason I finally switched over to eating organic as much as I can.

If I can find my book, I'll' see if it says anything about ABX.

> > I was talking to a friend today who has FM and she has a dughter

who

> > seems to have MS. She said something that got me thinking. She

asked

> > me if my symtoms get worse when I chicken, because hers

definetly do.

> > My first thought was, I wonder if she could be herxing from the

ABX

> > that are given to chickens on a routine basis. Before I could

finish

> > my thought, she said and " Ya know it doesn't happen if I eat

chicken

> > from the health food store " . Not all health food stores

> > carry " organic " chicken, but they still usually try to carry

foods

> > that are not treated with hormones, ABX or pesticides.

> >

> > Wouldn't it be interesting if the ABX in foods are not enough to

> > really kill pathogens to the degree we need, but they might some

how

> > play a part in weakening our immune system enough to get in. OR

the

> > ABX are in such small amounts in meats and poultry that, that in

> > itself tends to cause super bugs.

[Guest guest]

I did a little research and found that ABX do survive under certain

circumstances. An animal must not be slaughtered for a certain

amount of days after they are given ABX. It depends on who you talk

to, some say that 99.3% of poultry is ABX free. Others believe that

the incidence of residual ABX may be 2000x higher.

Here is a short aritcle:

Q & A: Drugs in poultry

The Soil Association has raised concerns about the level of drug

residues in chicken and eggs.

BBC News Online looks at what the drugs are used for and how they

might get into our food.

What drugs are used in poultry farming?

A range of drugs - mainly antibiotics and anti-parasitic treatments -

are used routinely in intensive poultry farming. They are given to

the birds in their feed or water.

The Soil Association says it is most concerned about drugs used to

control intestinal parasites in poultry and game birds.

These include nicarbazin, lasalocid and dimetridazole. Nicarbazin

and lasalocid, both used to treat a parasitic infection known as

coccidiosis, are given in feed.

Dimetridazole is another anti-parasitic drug, given to birds in

their water.

How might these drugs get into human food?

The drugs are given to poultry in the first three weeks of life but

must be withdrawn before the birds are sent to slaughter or before

they lay eggs.

Most drugs must be stopped for eight days before the animal's meat

or eggs enter the human food chain.

This should stop any traces of medicine, which might remain in the

animal's body, from getting into human food.

The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (MVD), an executive agency of

Maff, is responsible for monitoring for the presence of residues in

meat and eggs.

According to the VMD, in 1999, 8,063 poultry samples were tested for

all likely contaminants. Of these 99.3% were " free of detectable

residues " .

Eggs are monitored for traces of medicines

But the Soil Association disputes these figures.

" Government regulators have routinely provided misleading

information in their public statements about the incidence of drug

residues in chicken meat and eggs, " says a new Soil Association

report.

" They maintain that 99% of poultry meat and 97% of eggs are free of

detectable residues. However, detailed analysis of the data on which

their summaries are based suggests the actual levels could be up to

2,000% higher. "

But Alastair ston of the British Veterinary Poultry Association

(BVPA) says the UK is doing its best to minimise the use of anti-

parasitic and antibiotic drugs.

He told BBC News Online: " As long as we aim to obey the withdrawal

periods and maintain the standard of regulation concerning poultry

drugs and antibiotics in the UK, then I think the poultry and eggs

in the UK are the safest in the world. "

Why are the drugs needed?

The Soil Association says that the use of such drugs " has its roots

in intensive farming methods " .

The report continues: " In this case, the specific problems are the

unnatural feeding practices and unsanitary, overcrowded, moist,

dark, confined conditions in which large numbers of chickens are

kept - conditions under which most would undoubtedly perish without

drugs to keep them alive until slaughter. "

But Alastair ston, of the BVPA, says the health and welfare of

birds would deteriorate if anti-parasitic and antibiotic products

were not used, even in free-range conditions.

" You would use less of these products with free range chickens, " he

told BBC News Online. " But you would still need to use them to

control disease. "

" And would the public accept the consequence in terms of cost in the

supermarket? " he adds.

[Guest guest]

I've often wondered just what we are getting eating poultry beef and

port that are loaded with abx their whole short lives. We raise

chickens- so I know what goes into them.

I did a quick refresher search too.. sometimes these tests for

residual abx is done on uncooked tissue... hard to find data on

cooked tissue, but

dimetridazole is almost identicle to Flagyl (and I'm not sure if

it's legal in the USA- if it is then its very recent.)

In europe, it's illegal to give lasalocid to laying hens.

ANd as far as Nicarbazin goes, IF the poultry growers are following

the law, the residue should be out of the tissues in 4 days (but who

knows whether they follow the law or not).

And on the hormone issue:

I drink only milk from cows that are NOT forced to produce more by the

rBGH hormone.. and that's getting hard to find. FDA says there's no

residue post pasturization- other studies say there is. In any case

the poor cow is just a money machine producing 25% more milk a day-

and there are side effects (the cow pays) for that increase.

We humans are just a plague upon the earth sometimes -

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c104:H.R.2085.IH:

http://www.animalwelfare.com/pubs/Quarterly/Summer2000/rBGH.htm

http://64.233.187.104/search?

q=cache:kbs2bJDJQq8J:www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/140-

339.pdf+Nicarbazin+cooked+chicken+residue & hl=en

> I did a little research and found that ABX do survive under certain

> circumstances. An animal must not be slaughtered for a certain

> amount of days after they are given ABX. It depends on who you talk

> to, some say that 99.3% of poultry is ABX free. Others believe that

> the incidence of residual ABX may be 2000x higher.

>

> Here is a short aritcle:

>

> Q & A: Drugs in poultry

>

>

>

> The Soil Association has raised concerns about the level of drug

> residues in chicken and eggs.

> BBC News Online looks at what the drugs are used for and how they

> might get into our food.

>

> What drugs are used in poultry farming?

>

> A range of drugs - mainly antibiotics and anti-parasitic

treatments -

> are used routinely in intensive poultry farming. They are given to

> the birds in their feed or water.

>

> The Soil Association says it is most concerned about drugs used to

> control intestinal parasites in poultry and game birds.

>

> These include nicarbazin, lasalocid and dimetridazole. Nicarbazin

> and lasalocid, both used to treat a parasitic infection known as

> coccidiosis, are given in feed.

>

> Dimetridazole is another anti-parasitic drug, given to birds in

> their water.

>

> How might these drugs get into human food?

>

> The drugs are given to poultry in the first three weeks of life but

> must be withdrawn before the birds are sent to slaughter or before

> they lay eggs.

>

> Most drugs must be stopped for eight days before the animal's meat

> or eggs enter the human food chain.

>

> This should stop any traces of medicine, which might remain in the

> animal's body, from getting into human food.

>

> The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (MVD), an executive agency of

> Maff, is responsible for monitoring for the presence of residues in

> meat and eggs.

>

> According to the VMD, in 1999, 8,063 poultry samples were tested

for

> all likely contaminants. Of these 99.3% were " free of detectable

> residues " .

>

>

>

> Eggs are monitored for traces of medicines

>

> But the Soil Association disputes these figures.

>

> " Government regulators have routinely provided misleading

> information in their public statements about the incidence of drug

> residues in chicken meat and eggs, " says a new Soil Association

> report.

>

> " They maintain that 99% of poultry meat and 97% of eggs are free of

> detectable residues. However, detailed analysis of the data on

which

> their summaries are based suggests the actual levels could be up to

> 2,000% higher. "

>

> But Alastair ston of the British Veterinary Poultry Association

> (BVPA) says the UK is doing its best to minimise the use of anti-

> parasitic and antibiotic drugs.

>

> He told BBC News Online: " As long as we aim to obey the withdrawal

> periods and maintain the standard of regulation concerning poultry

> drugs and antibiotics in the UK, then I think the poultry and eggs

> in the UK are the safest in the world. "

>

> Why are the drugs needed?

>

> The Soil Association says that the use of such drugs " has its roots

> in intensive farming methods " .

>

> The report continues: " In this case, the specific problems are the

> unnatural feeding practices and unsanitary, overcrowded, moist,

> dark, confined conditions in which large numbers of chickens are

> kept - conditions under which most would undoubtedly perish without

> drugs to keep them alive until slaughter. "

>

> But Alastair ston, of the BVPA, says the health and welfare of

> birds would deteriorate if anti-parasitic and antibiotic products

> were not used, even in free-range conditions.

>

> " You would use less of these products with free range chickens, " he

> told BBC News Online. " But you would still need to use them to

> control disease. "

>

> " And would the public accept the consequence in terms of cost in

the

> supermarket? " he adds.

[Guest guest]

I can't remember the gist of it but know that 60 minutes has

reported on unacceptably high levels of contamination in US poultry.

I have noticed that chicken purchased raw disagrees with me, no

matter how Bob cooks it. But I do fine with dairy and red meat,

which seems a bit perverse but there you have it.

It seems like any microganisms in chicken would be highly resistant

to antimicrobials. Since my problem appears to be mostly with

chicken that is purchased raw, and I haven't been bothered by

chicken broth, I have to think that either the drugs or the

organisms they are meant to contain may be involved.

Although I can say that the very idea of chicken meat repulses me.

Is it a nutrient thing? I don't know what it would be. I can

tolerate dairy quite well, and fish too, though I avoid them now

because of pollution.

I don't eat large amounts of anything, but have wondered if the bugs

are trying to encourage me to load up on fatty foods, high in the

cholesterol they love.

All I know for sure is that I am so sick already, if by avoiding a

group of foods I can have less discomfort I will do that. I don't

have sugar cravings, but do sometimes crave salt. Greens are

becoming harder to digest, and my body seems very happy with rice

and beans.

As soon as MediCal approves it I'm going to try yet another

antifungal to see if I can tolerate it any better. This time it will

be sporanox, because it comes in capsules of time release pellets

which allows you to titrate up to an effective dose, and is said to

stay mostly within the gut.

I think the old pain medication I was taking probably contributed as

much to any yeast overgrowth as antibiotics. That stuff just sat in

my lower GI tract, doing nothing for my pain and constipating the

hell out of me. The new pain med is metabolized earlier on, so my GI

tract has been going through withdrawl, but I haven't had any more

pain elsewhere.

Maybe between the change in pain meds, a break in antibiotics pre-

Rocephin, and frequent doses of milk thistle for my liver I'll

actually be able to complete a round of 'azole' treatment. Will be

interesting to see if that changes my response to specific foods.

I would still like to be able to try sustained fluconazole at some

point. Right now though I am still trying to get my pain level down.

I can't tolerate any more discomfort, of any kind, whatsoever (lol,

famous last words!)

Sorry for blathering, but I do think there could be an issue with

poultry.

> I did a little research and found that ABX do survive under

certain

> circumstances. An animal must not be slaughtered for a certain

> amount of days after they are given ABX. It depends on who you

talk

> to, some say that 99.3% of poultry is ABX free. Others believe

that

> the incidence of residual ABX may be 2000x higher.

>

> Here is a short aritcle:

>

> Q & A: Drugs in poultry

>

>

>

> The Soil Association has raised concerns about the level of drug

> residues in chicken and eggs.

> BBC News Online looks at what the drugs are used for and how they

> might get into our food.

>

> What drugs are used in poultry farming?

>

> A range of drugs - mainly antibiotics and anti-parasitic

treatments -

> are used routinely in intensive poultry farming. They are given

to

> the birds in their feed or water.

>

> The Soil Association says it is most concerned about drugs used to

> control intestinal parasites in poultry and game birds.

>

> These include nicarbazin, lasalocid and dimetridazole. Nicarbazin

> and lasalocid, both used to treat a parasitic infection known as

> coccidiosis, are given in feed.

>

> Dimetridazole is another anti-parasitic drug, given to birds in

> their water.

>

> How might these drugs get into human food?

>

> The drugs are given to poultry in the first three weeks of life

but

> must be withdrawn before the birds are sent to slaughter or before

> they lay eggs.

>

> Most drugs must be stopped for eight days before the animal's meat

> or eggs enter the human food chain.

>

> This should stop any traces of medicine, which might remain in the

> animal's body, from getting into human food.

>

> The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (MVD), an executive agency of

> Maff, is responsible for monitoring for the presence of residues

in

> meat and eggs.

>

> According to the VMD, in 1999, 8,063 poultry samples were tested

for

> all likely contaminants. Of these 99.3% were " free of detectable

> residues " .

>

>

>

> Eggs are monitored for traces of medicines

>

> But the Soil Association disputes these figures.

>

> " Government regulators have routinely provided misleading

> information in their public statements about the incidence of drug

> residues in chicken meat and eggs, " says a new Soil Association

> report.

>

> " They maintain that 99% of poultry meat and 97% of eggs are free

of

> detectable residues. However, detailed analysis of the data on

which

> their summaries are based suggests the actual levels could be up

to

> 2,000% higher. "

>

> But Alastair ston of the British Veterinary Poultry

Association

> (BVPA) says the UK is doing its best to minimise the use of anti-

> parasitic and antibiotic drugs.

>

> He told BBC News Online: " As long as we aim to obey the withdrawal

> periods and maintain the standard of regulation concerning poultry

> drugs and antibiotics in the UK, then I think the poultry and eggs

> in the UK are the safest in the world. "

>

> Why are the drugs needed?

>

> The Soil Association says that the use of such drugs " has its

roots

> in intensive farming methods " .

>

> The report continues: " In this case, the specific problems are the

> unnatural feeding practices and unsanitary, overcrowded, moist,

> dark, confined conditions in which large numbers of chickens are

> kept - conditions under which most would undoubtedly perish

without

> drugs to keep them alive until slaughter. "

>

> But Alastair ston, of the BVPA, says the health and welfare of

> birds would deteriorate if anti-parasitic and antibiotic products

> were not used, even in free-range conditions.

>

> " You would use less of these products with free range chickens, "

he

> told BBC News Online. " But you would still need to use them to

> control disease. "

>

> " And would the public accept the consequence in terms of cost in

the

> supermarket? " he adds.

[Guest guest]

FWIW, several years ago when I was still buying poultry at the

supermarket, I bought some chicken on sale. When i got it home it

was slimey, grey and smelled of clorox bleach.

Later a friend of a friend who works in a meat department told me

that they routinely soak both chicken and pork in clorox to kill the

outside bacteria when it gets a little old, then re-package the meat

and sell it on sale.

Yuk. I have never shopped at a supermarket, since.

Dunno how true it is, but the facts seemed to fit.

*S*

> > I did a little research and found that ABX do survive under

> certain

> > circumstances. An animal must not be slaughtered for a certain

> > amount of days after they are given ABX. It depends on who you

> talk

> > to, some say that 99.3% of poultry is ABX free. Others believe

> that

> > the incidence of residual ABX may be 2000x higher.

> >

> > Here is a short aritcle:

> >

> > Q & A: Drugs in poultry

> >

> >

> >

> > The Soil Association has raised concerns about the level of drug

> > residues in chicken and eggs.

> > BBC News Online looks at what the drugs are used for and how

they

> > might get into our food.

> >

> > What drugs are used in poultry farming?

> >

> > A range of drugs - mainly antibiotics and anti-parasitic

> treatments -

> > are used routinely in intensive poultry farming. They are given

> to

> > the birds in their feed or water.

> >

> > The Soil Association says it is most concerned about drugs used

to

> > control intestinal parasites in poultry and game birds.

> >

> > These include nicarbazin, lasalocid and dimetridazole.

Nicarbazin

> > and lasalocid, both used to treat a parasitic infection known as

> > coccidiosis, are given in feed.

> >

> > Dimetridazole is another anti-parasitic drug, given to birds in

> > their water.

> >

> > How might these drugs get into human food?

> >

> > The drugs are given to poultry in the first three weeks of life

> but

> > must be withdrawn before the birds are sent to slaughter or

before

> > they lay eggs.

> >

> > Most drugs must be stopped for eight days before the animal's

meat

> > or eggs enter the human food chain.

> >

> > This should stop any traces of medicine, which might remain in

the

> > animal's body, from getting into human food.

> >

> > The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (MVD), an executive agency

of

> > Maff, is responsible for monitoring for the presence of residues

> in

> > meat and eggs.

> >

> > According to the VMD, in 1999, 8,063 poultry samples were tested

> for

> > all likely contaminants. Of these 99.3% were " free of detectable

> > residues " .

> >

> >

> >

> > Eggs are monitored for traces of medicines

> >

> > But the Soil Association disputes these figures.

> >

> > " Government regulators have routinely provided misleading

> > information in their public statements about the incidence of

drug

> > residues in chicken meat and eggs, " says a new Soil Association

> > report.

> >

> > " They maintain that 99% of poultry meat and 97% of eggs are free

> of

> > detectable residues. However, detailed analysis of the data on

> which

> > their summaries are based suggests the actual levels could be up

> to

> > 2,000% higher. "

> >

> > But Alastair ston of the British Veterinary Poultry

> Association

> > (BVPA) says the UK is doing its best to minimise the use of anti-

> > parasitic and antibiotic drugs.

> >

> > He told BBC News Online: " As long as we aim to obey the

withdrawal

> > periods and maintain the standard of regulation concerning

poultry

> > drugs and antibiotics in the UK, then I think the poultry and

eggs

> > in the UK are the safest in the world. "

> >

> > Why are the drugs needed?

> >

> > The Soil Association says that the use of such drugs " has its

> roots

> > in intensive farming methods " .

> >

> > The report continues: " In this case, the specific problems are

the

> > unnatural feeding practices and unsanitary, overcrowded, moist,

> > dark, confined conditions in which large numbers of chickens are

> > kept - conditions under which most would undoubtedly perish

> without

> > drugs to keep them alive until slaughter. "

> >

> > But Alastair ston, of the BVPA, says the health and welfare

of

> > birds would deteriorate if anti-parasitic and antibiotic

products

> > were not used, even in free-range conditions.

> >

> > " You would use less of these products with free range chickens, "

> he

> > told BBC News Online. " But you would still need to use them to

> > control disease. "

> >

> > " And would the public accept the consequence in terms of cost in

> the

> > supermarket? " he adds.

[Guest guest]

Yikes, how revolting. I wouldn't put it past them, a profession with

a name like " butchery " can hardly be trusted to echo tender

sensibilities.

Not that there aren't wonderful butchers, there are. I have crushes

on the butchers at one of our markets, they're all so nice.

The selling of meat that is getting 'ripe' is a tough call, because

I hate the idea of waste, especially in a world where people go

hungry.

But I have detected bleach and other sterilizing chemicals in meat

more than once, and it is so disgusting, I don't believe I'm making

it up, nor do I think it is a defensible practice to sell meat that

has been subject to that treatment.

One of many indications we need to give more thought to how we get

our dinners.

> > > I did a little research and found that ABX do survive under

> > certain

> > > circumstances. An animal must not be slaughtered for a certain

> > > amount of days after they are given ABX. It depends on who you

> > talk

> > > to, some say that 99.3% of poultry is ABX free. Others believe

> > that

> > > the incidence of residual ABX may be 2000x higher.

> > >

> > > Here is a short aritcle:

> > >

> > > Q & A: Drugs in poultry

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > The Soil Association has raised concerns about the level of

drug

> > > residues in chicken and eggs.

> > > BBC News Online looks at what the drugs are used for and how

> they

> > > might get into our food.

> > >

> > > What drugs are used in poultry farming?

> > >

> > > A range of drugs - mainly antibiotics and anti-parasitic

> > treatments -

> > > are used routinely in intensive poultry farming. They are

given

> > to

> > > the birds in their feed or water.

> > >

> > > The Soil Association says it is most concerned about drugs

used

> to

> > > control intestinal parasites in poultry and game birds.

> > >

> > > These include nicarbazin, lasalocid and dimetridazole.

> Nicarbazin

> > > and lasalocid, both used to treat a parasitic infection known

as

> > > coccidiosis, are given in feed.

> > >

> > > Dimetridazole is another anti-parasitic drug, given to birds

in

> > > their water.

> > >

> > > How might these drugs get into human food?

> > >

> > > The drugs are given to poultry in the first three weeks of

life

> > but

> > > must be withdrawn before the birds are sent to slaughter or

> before

> > > they lay eggs.

> > >

> > > Most drugs must be stopped for eight days before the animal's

> meat

> > > or eggs enter the human food chain.

> > >

> > > This should stop any traces of medicine, which might remain in

> the

> > > animal's body, from getting into human food.

> > >

> > > The Veterinary Medicines Directorate (MVD), an executive

agency

> of

> > > Maff, is responsible for monitoring for the presence of

residues

> > in

> > > meat and eggs.

> > >

> > > According to the VMD, in 1999, 8,063 poultry samples were

tested

> > for

> > > all likely contaminants. Of these 99.3% were " free of

detectable

> > > residues " .

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Eggs are monitored for traces of medicines

> > >

> > > But the Soil Association disputes these figures.

> > >

> > > " Government regulators have routinely provided misleading

> > > information in their public statements about the incidence of

> drug

> > > residues in chicken meat and eggs, " says a new Soil

Association

> > > report.

> > >

> > > " They maintain that 99% of poultry meat and 97% of eggs are

free

> > of

> > > detectable residues. However, detailed analysis of the data on

> > which

> > > their summaries are based suggests the actual levels could be

up

> > to

> > > 2,000% higher. "

> > >

> > > But Alastair ston of the British Veterinary Poultry

> > Association

> > > (BVPA) says the UK is doing its best to minimise the use of

anti-

> > > parasitic and antibiotic drugs.

> > >

> > > He told BBC News Online: " As long as we aim to obey the

> withdrawal

> > > periods and maintain the standard of regulation concerning

> poultry

> > > drugs and antibiotics in the UK, then I think the poultry and

> eggs

> > > in the UK are the safest in the world. "

> > >

> > > Why are the drugs needed?

> > >

> > > The Soil Association says that the use of such drugs " has its

> > roots

> > > in intensive farming methods " .

> > >

> > > The report continues: " In this case, the specific problems are

> the

> > > unnatural feeding practices and unsanitary, overcrowded,

moist,

> > > dark, confined conditions in which large numbers of chickens

are

> > > kept - conditions under which most would undoubtedly perish

> > without

> > > drugs to keep them alive until slaughter. "

> > >

> > > But Alastair ston, of the BVPA, says the health and

welfare

> of

> > > birds would deteriorate if anti-parasitic and antibiotic

> products

> > > were not used, even in free-range conditions.

> > >

> > > " You would use less of these products with free range

chickens, "

> > he

> > > told BBC News Online. " But you would still need to use them to

> > > control disease. "

> > >

> > > " And would the public accept the consequence in terms of cost

in

> > the

> > > supermarket? " he adds.