Re: Re: Combat Conditioning & Matt Furey

[Guest guest]

If you Google his name, you will see that he does have

his detractors. His website should give you a fair

idea of the type of marketing he does. There is

nothing wrong with his self-styled " Royal Court " of

exercises, but there is nothing special about them

either. Anyone who played high school football or

wrestled has done a wrestler's neck bridge. Hindu

pushups used to be called dive bombers. Hindu squats

could be found in a lot of old PE classes without any

special name attached to them.

From Atlas on there is always someone with an

exercise program to sell. I suspect that the average

former high school athlete could put together their

own body weight circuit of exercises and do just as

well as they will with whatever program is currently

in vogue. However, the commercial tapes do assist in

putting together a program and provide motivation

which can be helpful. Nothing wrong with that, but it

does come at a cost.

Jon Haddan

Irvine, CA

--- xyrodon wrote:

> Hi,

>

> I have heard of Matt Furey for some time now. I

> have also seen his

> Combat Conditioning videos and to be quite honest,

> there isn't much

> offered that many professional athletes have not

> seen or used before.

> Another thing, Matt Furey seems to be more of a

> marketer and less of a

> conditioning coach. The man who trained him, Karl

> Gotch, even said

> so. In a letter he wrote, referring to Matt as " Fat

> man Furey " he

> stated many things about Matt that many people

> suspected him to be, an

> aggressive marketer determined to empty your pockets

> for his extremely

> over priced products. Anyone care to share any

> thoughts about whether

> this is true or not?

>

> http://scientificwrestling.com/letter_from_karl.htm

>

>

> Trevis Raghubir

> Milton, Ontario

[Guest guest]

> aggressive marketer determined to empty your pockets for his extremely

> over priced products.

Some of the products get expensive, but $30 for a book (Combat Conditioning)

isn't much. For people with competitive athletic background, it's probably

basic, but for most, it's a sound, effective program. I use Combat

Conditioning & Combat Stretching as the foundation of my conditioning

program.

lee Grasso

Denton, TX, USA

[Guest guest]

--- lee Grasso wrote:

> > aggressive marketer determined to empty your

> pockets for his extremely

> > over priced products.

Personally I find that Matt Furey is an aggressive

marketer and some of his books repeat what is found

elsewhere.

This is not to say that his books are not worthwhile.

They are quite good. Combat Conditioning is

definitely a good product. However, because of the

hype, I dont know which of his other products are

worth it and which are not.

I am very distressed that I now see the same kind of

marketing coming out of Kubik who now too is

pushing a bodyweight line of books and video. This

trend is most distressing.

Seay

Palo Alto, CA.

[Guest guest]

> Personally I find that Matt Furey is an aggressive marketer

I think that goes with the territory of being self-employed

(I'm also self-employed, not aggressive, but can appreciate the strategy).

> However, because of the hype, I dont know which of his

> other products are worth it and which are not.

It probably depends a lot on level of knowledge / expertise. They're good

for me, because I benefit from a personal trainer, but don't like gyms and

routine. Matt's products give me the information I need to be effective,

and the knowledge to remain independent. There may be others out there

marketing similar programs. I haven't studied others, but this one works

well for me.

> This trend is most distressing.

Why is it distressing?

lee Grasso

Denton, TX

[Guest guest]

Every professional, in every field, has a

responsibility to monitor the ethics and practices of

others in that field. In certain circumstances, not

doing so is far worse than the unethical practicioners

themselves. The situation with Matt Furey is this, he

pushes a single-minded approach to fitness while

applying much effort towards discrediting other

methods. In itself, this violates several laws of

training. To further worsen the situation, he uses

hyped up advertising to market overpriced materials.

No professional should allow this to continue without

voicing an opinion openly. The credibility of all

fitness professionals is at stake when people start

buying services/products that are not worth the

purchase price. If you doubt this, simply look into

the liability trends and insurance requirement changes

that result from incompetent trainers. And when

credibility issues arise from word of mouth, we all

take the hit together.

To be fair, Furey's program has made some positive

impacts. He makes several valid points. He does

provide solid education at times. But his ethics are

questionable at best. People around the world seek

out methods of attaining fitness every day. Almost no

one is exempt from guerilla marketing tactics. And

his tactics are to discredit anything other than what

he recommends. So new and experienced people, already

weary of fads, gimmicks and junk, think they find

something to put their faith behind. When you are

trying to entice such a response, your principles and

methods had better be air tight. His are not.

Everyone has a right to earn a living but doing so by

manipulating others is beyond wrong.

Colorado Spings, USA

--- mpaulreid wrote:

> Dear Forum Members,

>

> Why are we, the forum, personally attacking another

> professional who

> is spreading the good word of health and fitness?

> Why is it bad to

> make money doing what you love? Why is it a bad

> thing to earn a

> living or earn a living in the health and fitness

> field? So what if

> Matt charges $15,000-25,000/day, good for him!

>

> We all make mistakes in life, after all that is how

> one learns.

>

> Be Well,

> Mike Reid

> Gothenborg, Sweden

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I suggest that the opinion posted before that Mr. Furey may state his price

and may or may not receive is likely true... That one may post a pencil for

sale on line and state a required price of $50,000 US does not mean one will

find a buyer at this price. (I do hope however somebody does buy it sooner

or later, it will finance my lifting expenses for QUITE some time...)

As for Mr. Furey's site or methods and the ability of List members to judge

for their own selves.... Mel chose to discuss a great number of methods, his

delight in " gurus " and their salesmanship was evident if you read the

archives? That the limitation is in the self promotion or sheer selling

that is well, List Spam.

As a comparison - Might I add I don't agree with say, Chek - but I

don't go around here screaming about his well, clear intent to make money on

what I consider something that makes no sense? I merely don't buy his

products or attend his seminars, nor do I promote his way of thinking. My

own personal opinion is that yes, he charges an outrageous amount of money

for his books, seminars and other things, and I have a very basic

disagreement on much of the work he sells.

If you look at the archives, Mel himself made comments to the effect that

Mr. Chek divides his work into many books, sells them at big prices -

whereas Mel put his into 1 large volume. Perhaps Mel should have divided

his works like Supertraining into smaller books and made more money in

retrospect....<grin>. Or charged for membership to this list? Or for many

of the things he did for his friends?

But my disagreement with Mr. Chek's teachings does not mean he does not have

a big following, nor that he has no right to make a living using such

methods as he does. I think you do the list a disservice by suggesting that

this is not a thinking group of athletes and interested parties, and we are

all able to read and decide for ourselves. If some choose to buy Mr.

Furey's or Mr. Chek's or any other person's services or works for their use,

that is their choice. That even such persons as Mr. Chek clearly employ a

great deal of " salesmanship " is clear, and people choose to buy from Mr.

Furey or Mr. Chek based on their own judgment as consumers? That Mel

clearly UNDERSOLD himself is clear if you view him in comparison to the

above examples is clear to me...that the amount of marketing and

salesmanship employed do not necessarily tell us accurately what the worth

of the information or coaching is.

That there is a great deal of money made or charged in the name of health

and fitness is a given. That there will be somebody to buy virtually

anything and believe in it, that too is a given. The world of bodybuilding

supplements and other dietary add-ons supports this theory nicely... that

buyer beware is something to employ no matter what the subject is really,

one should check out the trainer or the supplement before using them is

common sense?

I mean, personally I would not see the value in hiring Stacey Maloney or

Huang Hubin for my use... <grin>. To each their own. If any person does

not properly serve the requirements of being hired or the user feels they

require a refund, or some sort of damage was done, then the rules of the

marketplace apply and let justice be served. I think the person who wrote

the message below should pursue a refund from Mr. Furey as that is his

reasonable right... and if he does not receive such, then such legal means

to do so, perhaps there is a group of such unhappy buyers out there, who can

say?

But then I rarely buy a book and I don't hire anyone to coach me

either...perhaps I am not a true measure of the target audience. One style

of lifting or coaching cannot serve all and that's why the marketplace, wide

ranging as it is, continues to expand.

With humor,

The Phantom

aka Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter

Denver, Colorado, USA

It was written:

> Matt is not spreading the word of health and fitness. He's spreading one

> thing: greedy SCAM artist.

> Of all people from everywhere, especially the ones on this forum,

> should be average athletes in the least. When some guy goes on making

> videos and books charging people a ridiculous amount of money for it

> and makes outrageous and untrue claims, they are insulting the world

> of sport, the world of training. Charging outrageous prices for over

> rated products equals a greedy scam artist.

> I'm sure everybody on this forum would pay $15000 per day. As for me,

> thanks but not thanks. I'd rather spend less than half of that per year

> for Stacey Maloney or Huang Hubin (coach of the great Yang Wei).

> By the way, Furey went to college, what did he study? Kinesiology or

> Marketing?? If you know the answer, I'd sure like to know.

> Matt can do what he wants, he just better not make outrageous untrue

> claims for his products as they're NOT designed to help elite

> athletes, they are just the average weekend warrior. I feel like I

> could have put my money for better things in training than his

> videos. At first, I was very excited to get them, that is until I

> watched them. Nothing new for me, funny things is, I've been doing

> many of those exercises for years. Sorry Matt Furey, you got nothing

> on gymnasts.

>

>

> Trevis Raghubir

> Milton, Ontario

[Guest guest]

--- Schaefer

wrote:

<<But my disagreement with Mr. Chek's teachings does

not mean he does not have

a big following, nor that he has no right to make a

living using such

methods as he does. I think you do the list a

disservice by suggesting that

this is not a thinking group of athletes and

interested parties, and we are

all able to read and decide for ourselves>>

If Furey and the others have the RIGHT to hype their

products, then we certainly have the RIGHT to inform

each other here about this hype. It's good that we

do.

Whereas group members may be intelligent, we are all

athletes who are very eager to improve our

performance.

As such we are susceptible in some cases to big

claims.

It's good that we are here to give each other a

healthy spoon of scepticism vis a' vis those who would

exploit the fitness public.

But that's not all. People selling these products

should be ethical. Being ethical and being legal are

not the same. Obviously what such hucksters do is

legal. But is it ethical? I am not always sure about

that. For example, Matt Furey's books are not

distributed via bookstores. People have no way of

examining the product beforehand and have to rely on

what he says about his products. It's not always

reliable. One must question whether one of the

reasons he does not distribute through bookstores is

exaclty because his marketing would be less effective

if the consumer could browse his material before

purchasing.

Seay

Palo Alto, CA

[Guest guest]

I'm digging this. Gotch's letter about Furey is on a website selling Gotch

DVD's. What make Gotch right and Furey wrong? Because Gotch said so? Please.

Any cooborating evidence?

Obviously, Combat Conditioning is Furey's attempt to appeal to a mainstream

audience. So? What's you're opinion of " Buns of Steel " ? Furey's influence

seems to be limited to his web site and a few posts in forums.

As a former high school wrestler, grappling is fascinating. How is Furey viewed

in the martial arts arena? Did he win the claimed championships? Has he

coached others to championships? Or, gasp, is he just trying to sell stuff

because he was once a champion?

Skip Dallen

Covina, CA

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/11/2006 4:20:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,

s.dallen@... writes:

<<<I'm digging this. Gotch's letter about Furey is on a website selling Gotch

DVD's. What make Gotch right and Furey wrong? Because Gotch said so?

Please. Any cooborating evidence?

Obviously, Combat Conditioning is Furey's attempt to appeal to a mainstream

audience. So? What's you're opinion of " Buns of Steel " ? Furey's influence

seems to be limited to his web site and a few posts in forums.

As a former high school wrestler, grappling is fascinating. How is Furey

viewed in the martial arts arena? Did he win the claimed championships? Has

he coached others to championships? Or, gasp, is he just trying to sell

stuff because he was once a champion?>>>

***I first heard of Matt Furey by reading ads in Black Belt Magazine and

similar publications. Thought about getting his program, but the level of hype

made

me wary. At _www.MMA.tv_ (http://www.MMA.tv) , there is a forum for

professional fighters, their trainers, and MMA fans called The Underground

Forum.

There are also forums at _www.sherdog.com_ (http://www.sherdog.com) ,

_www.fightsport.com_ (http://www.fightsport.com) , and a host of others

catering to the

same target market. Rather than giving you my (biased) opinion, I feel it

would be far more productive for you to examine those forums for the opinions

of

professionals directly specializing in combat sports. They do not mince

words when it comes to information on conditioning systems/products produced by

Mr. Furey.

kson, CST

Minneapolis, MN USA

_www.ClubbellTrainer.com_ (http://www.clubbelltrainer.com/)

" Better Living Through Movement. "

" Be good to yourself. If you don't take care of your body, where will you

live? "

- Kobi Yamada