Re:Cpn, niacin, etc

[Guest guest]

Bleu-

I've been using 500mg niacinamide twice a day. When I

asked Stratton about this, all he said was " that's

fine, " with the comment that the metronidazole being

crucial. I " think " it may potentiate the action of the

metronidazole since it seems my reactions are a bit

stronger, but this may be my imagination. It can't

hurt anyway.

On re-reading Stratton's patent materials, here is

what I understand-

Cpn has (at least) three phases crucial to treatment.

In Stratton's tests on mice, only when three agents

where used which each effect one of these phases, so

that the organism was attacked in all it's phases,

were the mice completely cleared of Cpn-- and in 4

months!

Not only that, but having cleared all the Cpn, the

mice were now resistant to re-inoculation with Cpn:

" Moreovver, following complete eradication of

chlamydiae, multiple atempts to reinfect these cured

mice via intranasal inoculation proved unsuccessful.

This suggests that effective management and complete

eradication results in the development of protective

immunity... "

These phases are:

Replicating phase- extracellular-- effected by doxy,

beta lactum abx, and others. This also drives the

replicating organism (creates a " stringent " condition)

into the cryptic phase.

" Cryptic " (nonreplicating) phase- intracellular

Within the Cryptic phase: a bunch of phases! Of these,

Stratton targets the " initial stage " where the

elementary bodies of the chlamydia cells (EBs)

transition to reticulate bodies (RB's). Because this

transformation invloves elctron transfer proteins and

nitroreductaces, this phase is vulnerable to

nitroimidazoles (metronidazole preferred) and

nitrofurans (nitrofurantoin preferred). This last

gives me some hope that, if I can't tolerate the

Flagyl, perhaps I can tolerate nitrofurantoin.

Other agents identified using his tests which effect

both the replicating and cryptic phases are a " novvel

class " of aggents includingg ethambbutol and

isonicotinic acid (niacin) cogeners. These include

isoniazid (INH- preferred), isonicotinic acid,

nicotinic acid and some others.

I chose niacinamide because it is the form of niacin

which actually circulates in the blood, and doesn't

cause flushing as niacin does, but I may try niacin

next time as he doesn't mention niacinamide

specifically in his patent materials. INH is an isomer

of niacin used in treating tuberculosis, but has

potential carcinogenic and neurotoxic effects, so I

didn't even want to pursue it-- especially since the

Flagyl is also killing it in the cryptic phase.

Interestingly, Stratton notes that disulfide reducing

agents (penicillamine, beta-lactum abx are such)

disrupt the integrity of outer membrane proteins of

the Cpn cell. This induces the transition of the

bacterium from EB to RB. When this happens

extracellularly (outside of the host cell, ie our own

body tissue cells) the bacteria has no energy source

(which is derived in this phase solely from the host

cell) and it dies. He lists a whole bunch of such

agents, a lot of which are abx, but the interesting

part is it also includes: N-acetylecycsteine and

glutathione! This may be part of the reason that

Cheney saw reduction of Cpn and mycobacterial levels

in patients using undenatured whey which supplies the

precursors for both of these.

I've added NAC also 600mg, and am trying to ramp up on

some undenatured whey-- but herx from it. I thought

this was because of increased detox, but it may

actually kill Cpn as well!

Your question forced me to go back to Strattons stuff

and make another attempt to understand it better, so

thanks! The more I read, the more impressed I am with

the detail and thoroughness of his methods and

approach

Jim

Message: 8

Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:07:26 +0200

From: Colourbleu <colourbleu@...>

Subject: nicotinamide

how much nicotinamide and how is it working any

feedback on this yet?

bleu

[Guest guest]

most interesting. The main reason for interest was that recently I have

been doing high doses of B12, Bs 6, folic acid, all of which are

involved in the detox of the brain (which I have had a problem with

since benicar.) well the interesting news is that I have suffered with

prostate problems for years and about a month ago after a good dose of

sex, my prostate really hurt, this went on for about a day then cleared

up, and has been so quiet in the last 3 weeks I cannot quite believe

it. I suspect that the b12 has been the reason but could not figure

out, but since reading the patent, and the b3 mention this caught my

attention, you may have just filled in the gaps I do believe. B12, is

also part of the glutathione picture as you well know.

Most interesting. I would shout louder but it is a rather personal

issue.

> Bleu-

> I've been using 500mg niacinamide twice a day. When I

> asked Stratton about this, all he said was " that's

> fine, " with the comment that the metronidazole being

> crucial. I " think " it may potentiate the action of the

> metronidazole since it seems my reactions are a bit

> stronger, but this may be my imagination. It can't

> hurt anyway.

>

> On re-reading Stratton's patent materials, here is

> what I understand-

> Cpn has (at least) three phases crucial to treatment.

> In Stratton's tests on mice, only when three agents

> where used which each effect one of these phases, so

> that the organism was attacked in all it's phases,

> were the mice completely cleared of Cpn-- and in 4

> months!

> Not only that, but having cleared all the Cpn, the

> mice were now resistant to re-inoculation with Cpn:

> " Moreovver, following complete eradication of

> chlamydiae, multiple atempts to reinfect these cured

> mice via intranasal inoculation proved unsuccessful.

> This suggests that effective management and complete

> eradication results in the development of protective

> immunity... "

>

> These phases are:

> Replicating phase- extracellular-- effected by doxy,

> beta lactum abx, and others. This also drives the

> replicating organism (creates a " stringent " condition)

> into the cryptic phase.

> " Cryptic " (nonreplicating) phase- intracellular

>

> Within the Cryptic phase: a bunch of phases! Of these,

> Stratton targets the " initial stage " where the

> elementary bodies of the chlamydia cells (EBs)

> transition to reticulate bodies (RB's). Because this

> transformation invloves elctron transfer proteins and

> nitroreductaces, this phase is vulnerable to

> nitroimidazoles (metronidazole preferred) and

> nitrofurans (nitrofurantoin preferred). This last

> gives me some hope that, if I can't tolerate the

> Flagyl, perhaps I can tolerate nitrofurantoin.

>

> Other agents identified using his tests which effect

> both the replicating and cryptic phases are a " novvel

> class " of aggents includingg ethambbutol and

> isonicotinic acid (niacin) cogeners. These include

> isoniazid (INH- preferred), isonicotinic acid,

> nicotinic acid and some others.

>

> I chose niacinamide because it is the form of niacin

> which actually circulates in the blood, and doesn't

> cause flushing as niacin does, but I may try niacin

> next time as he doesn't mention niacinamide

> specifically in his patent materials. INH is an isomer

> of niacin used in treating tuberculosis, but has

> potential carcinogenic and neurotoxic effects, so I

> didn't even want to pursue it-- especially since the

> Flagyl is also killing it in the cryptic phase.

>

> Interestingly, Stratton notes that disulfide reducing

> agents (penicillamine, beta-lactum abx are such)

> disrupt the integrity of outer membrane proteins of

> the Cpn cell. This induces the transition of the

> bacterium from EB to RB. When this happens

> extracellularly (outside of the host cell, ie our own

> body tissue cells) the bacteria has no energy source

> (which is derived in this phase solely from the host

> cell) and it dies. He lists a whole bunch of such

> agents, a lot of which are abx, but the interesting

> part is it also includes: N-acetylecycsteine and

> glutathione! This may be part of the reason that

> Cheney saw reduction of Cpn and mycobacterial levels

> in patients using undenatured whey which supplies the

> precursors for both of these.

>

> I've added NAC also 600mg, and am trying to ramp up on

> some undenatured whey-- but herx from it. I thought

> this was because of increased detox, but it may

> actually kill Cpn as well!

>

> Your question forced me to go back to Strattons stuff

> and make another attempt to understand it better, so

> thanks! The more I read, the more impressed I am with

> the detail and thoroughness of his methods and

> approach

> Jim

>

> Message: 8        

>    Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 22:07:26 +0200

>    From: Colourbleu <colourbleu@...>

> Subject: nicotinamide

>

> how much nicotinamide and how is it working any

> feedback on this yet?

>

> bleu

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bleu-

Just so this issue isn't as personal, I also have had

prostatitus and interstitial cystitus symptoms on and

off over the years. Cpn has been found implicated in

both these conditions, and I've expected more

improvement of these symptoms on the doxy/zith/flagyl

protocal than I have actually had. So maybe I've been

missing the B vitamin route.

What doses of each and what forms are you using?

Jim

Message: 4

Date: Thu, 5 May 2005 23:11:50 +0200

From: Colourbleu <colourbleu@...>

Subject: Re: Re:Cpn, niacin, etc

most interesting. The main reason for interest was

that recently I have

been doing high doses of B12, Bs 6, folic acid, all of

which are

involved in the detox of the brain (which I have had a

problem with

since benicar.) well the interesting news is that I

have suffered with

prostate problems for years and about a month ago

after a good dose of

sex, my prostate really hurt, this went on for about a

day then cleared

up, and has been so quiet in the last 3 weeks I cannot

quite believe

it. I suspect that the b12 has been the reason but

could not figure

out, but since reading the patent, and the b3 mention

this caught my

attention, you may have just filled in the gaps I do

believe. B12, is

also part of the glutathione picture as you well know.

Most interesting. I would shout louder but it is a

rather personal

issue.