Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Jelly belly, I think your point is a good one. I am wary of anything Lassesen posts as he tried hard, on a CFS list, to deter people from getting tested for infection and from using antibiotics, getting into prolonged verbal fisticuffs with one of the Mycoplasma Registry owners. Now it looks like he's trying to discourage people from using heparin. On the CFS list Ken made himself ever-so-helpful to everyone. Ken, I still think you're a spook, as do many others. Everyone, watch out for Ken on this list. Don't think this list wouldn't be penetrated, especially after the previous list didn't make it. I will unsubscribe, as I expect would be demanded after reading this message. I perfectly understand that we can't trash eachother, but I won't watch as people succumb to Lassessen's BS. I hope you all take my warning seriously.. Kathleen From: "jellybelly92008" <herranenb@...>Subject: Re: ARBs(Benicar) + Heparin for PWCs is probably dangerousGood warning to those who do have adrenal problems. But, that problem isn't something we all deal with. As sick as I was, that was not a problem for me or my daughter. I think the benefits of heparin are to profound when treating hypercoagulation to just turn and run from it based on this information. Although in light of this info, it is probably a real good idea to have your adrenals checked out before venturing into this territory. I really don't believe I would be at 95% remission without the heparin.Now, I wonder if this applies to NattoK too, as it also blocks Angiotensin. > > Given that 50% of PWCs have adrenal glands that are 50% of normal > size.. ["The right and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by over > 50% in the CFS subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy in > a group of CFS patients with abnormal endocrine parameters"> Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary > computer tomography study. LV, Teh J, Reznek R, A, > Sohaib A, Dinan TG. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1999 Oct;24(7):759-68.]> > "Heparin and its congeners are predictable, potent inhibitors of > aldosterone production.. Decreases in aldosterone levels may occur > with heparin dosages as low as 5,000 U BID. . reduction in both the > number and affinity of the angiotensin-II receptors in the zona > glomerulosa "> > Authors: Oster JR. Singer I. Fishman LM.> Institution: Medical Service, Department of Veterans Affairs Medical > Center, Miami, Florida 33125, USA.> Title: Heparin-induced aldosterone suppression and hyperkalemia. > [Review] [85 refs]> Source: American Journal of Medicine. 98(6)575-86, 1995 Jun.> > Authors: Bleasel JF. Rasko JE. Rickard KA. s G.> Institution: Rheumatology Department, Forster Hospital, > Redfern, NSW.> Title: Acute adrenal insufficiency secondary to heparin-induced > thrombocytopenia-thrombosis syndrome.> Source: Medical Journal of Australia. 157(3)192-3, 1992 Aug 3.> > > > "Heparin, increased risk of hyperkalaemia when angiotensin-II > receptor antagonists> given with heparin."> > > > Additional citations of interest:> > Hypoaldosteronism induced by low molecular weight heparins]> Presse Med. 1991 Jan 5-12;20(1):35> > Low molecular weight heparins and hypoaldosteronism.> BMJ. 1990 Jun 2;300(6737):1437-8.> > Pseudo-hypoaldosteronism induced by heparin in an elderly non-> diabetic female patient] Presse Med. 1990 Apr 28;19(17):818> > Selective hypoaldosteronism after using heparin in patients with > chronic glomerulonephritis] Klin Med (Mosk). 1987 Jul;65(7):94-6. > > Effects of heparin-induced aldosterone deficiency on renal function > in patients with chronic glomerulonephritis. Nephrol Dial Transplant. > 1987;2(4):219-23. > > Heparin-induced hypoaldosteronism. Report of a case. JAMA. 1981 Nov > 13;246(19):2189-90.> > SELECTIVE HYPOALDOSTERONISM AFTER PROLONGED HEPARIN ADMINISTRATION. A > CASE REPORT, WITH POSTMORTEM FINDINGS. Am J Med. 1964 Apr;36:635-40.> > The effect of aldosterone and aldosterone antagonists in patients > with hypoaldosteronism caused by heparinoid.] Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. > 1962 Mar 24;106:617-20> > > > Ken Lassesen,> > [Permission to repost elsewhere granted -- including on the unnamed > board] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Holy Canole, Ken, I'm afraid we'll have to ask to view your papers. Not the copy Kathleen just peed all over, though, if you please. Honestly, Kathleen, I don't know what sort of list you come from, but this one is occupied by grown-ups. We tackle orthodoxies, we don't promulgate them, not Ken's or mine or anyone else's. Ken was good enough to provide tangible reasons why combining heparin and ARBs might be a bad idea. The Unnameable Protocol's leader has been telling people that in vague terms forever. I found it refreshing to see an actual theory as to why combining the two might be a mistake. The Unnameable Protocol has been taken to task here, and rightly so, because it is an ongoing, organized, multiparty effort to indoctrinate. Ken may have strong views, but I have a keen sense for when something's being shoved down one of my orifices and Ken has never triggered it, Kathleen. You just did. > > > > Given that 50% of PWCs have adrenal glands that are 50% of normal > > size.. [ " The right and left adrenal gland bodies were reduced by > over > > 50% in the CFS subjects indicative of significant adrenal atrophy > in > > a group of CFS patients with abnormal endocrine parameters " > > Small adrenal glands in chronic fatigue syndrome: a preliminary > > computer tomography study. LV, Teh J, Reznek R, A, > > Sohaib A, Dinan TG. Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1999 Oct;24(7):759- > 68.] > > > > " Heparin and its congeners are predictable, potent inhibitors of > > aldosterone production.. Decreases in aldosterone levels may occur > > with heparin dosages as low as 5,000 U BID. . reduction in both > the > > number and affinity of the angiotensin-II receptors in the zona > > glomerulosa " > > > > Authors: Oster JR. Singer I. Fishman LM. > > Institution: Medical Service, Department of Veterans Affairs > Medical > > Center, Miami, Florida 33125, USA. > > Title: Heparin-induced aldosterone suppression and hyperkalemia. > > [Review] [85 refs] > > Source: American Journal of Medicine. 98(6)575-86, 1995 Jun. > > > > Authors: Bleasel JF. Rasko JE. Rickard KA. s G. > > Institution: Rheumatology Department, Forster Hospital, > > Redfern, NSW. > > Title: Acute adrenal insufficiency secondary to heparin-induced > > thrombocytopenia-thrombosis syndrome. > > Source: Medical Journal of Australia. 157(3)192-3, 1992 Aug 3. > > > > > > > > " Heparin, increased risk of hyperkalaemia when angiotensin-II > > receptor antagonists > > given with heparin. " > > > > > > > > Additional citations of interest: > > > > Hypoaldosteronism induced by low molecular weight heparins] > > Presse Med. 1991 Jan 5-12;20(1):35 > > > > Low molecular weight heparins and hypoaldosteronism. > > BMJ. 1990 Jun 2;300(6737):1437-8. > > > > Pseudo-hypoaldosteronism induced by heparin in an elderly non- > > diabetic female patient] Presse Med. 1990 Apr 28;19(17):818 > > > > Selective hypoaldosteronism after using heparin in patients with > > chronic glomerulonephritis] Klin Med (Mosk). 1987 Jul;65(7):94- 6. > > > > Effects of heparin-induced aldosterone deficiency on renal > function > > in patients with chronic glomerulonephritis. Nephrol Dial > Transplant. > > 1987;2(4):219-23. > > > > Heparin-induced hypoaldosteronism. Report of a case. JAMA. 1981 > Nov > > 13;246(19):2189-90. > > > > SELECTIVE HYPOALDOSTERONISM AFTER PROLONGED HEPARIN > ADMINISTRATION. A > > CASE REPORT, WITH POSTMORTEM FINDINGS. Am J Med. 1964 Apr;36:635- > 40. > > > > The effect of aldosterone and aldosterone antagonists in patients > > with hypoaldosteronism caused by heparinoid.] Ned Tijdschr > Geneeskd. > > 1962 Mar 24;106:617-20 > > > > > > > > Ken Lassesen, > > > > [Permission to repost elsewhere granted -- including on the > unnamed > > board] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Well, I guess we can all celebrate the fact that we went 1,018 posts on the new list before encountering a post like this one. Kathleen, you're new so let me fill you in. The discussion here is reasonable and informed, based on science as well as anecdotal evidence. We sometimes disagree, sometimes vigorously, but it's done without attacking each other or using cheap shots. We just naturally avoid gossip, especially when it can't be substantiated, as that's the intelligent thing to do. If you wish to participate, please do so in the spirit of the list. Your first post was definitely not in the spirit of this list and sentiments such as these do not belong here. thanks in advance for your cooperation, penny " Kathleen " <weerkhr@p...> wrote: I am wary of anything Lassesen posts ... I hope you all take my warning seriously.. > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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