Re: Blame and Compassion

[Guest guest]

<< When I have been in terrible pain, and I have, I do not

think very clearly. The last thing I need is psychoanalysis at that point.

What I want is sympathy, concern and love (as well as painkilling drugs.) I

imagine that would apply to psychic pain as well. One has to be receptive, and

when we hurt, its hard to delve deeply into oneself. >>

A very wise woman friend, a psychiatrist, once said to me: I don't want my

friends to be truthful, I want them to be kind. That struck me as a profound

lesson. Sympathy, love and concern seem to lessen pain, or at least make it

more bearable.

In a sense, anyone in severe pain has to learn to ride it, like a horse -- to

have the reins, to direct it. thus it leads to pain-killers and to whatever

else helps: meditation, sleep, imagining, fantacizing...

I have thought a lot about my experience last year when I nearly died from an

allergic reaction to dilaudid. I was acutely aware of my conscious mind

trying to take and keep control, to will me away from the abyss. What does

that mean - this intervention by my consciousness? Still parcing it out.

And Toni, I'm on your side, when the great pain hits, the last thing one

wants to hear is that they should have eaten more roughage.

It is, really, a simple thing to be kind. Why isn't there more of it?

lightly, lightly,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

Do you think that everyone who is sick or in pain has a " victim

mentality " ? I

agree that that which does not kill us makes us strong. No doubt about

that. I

take it you have a " thing " about coddling, but don't we all at times

just want

to be held and loved, as you say? Not everyone is strong enough to go it alone,

or rich enough to afford a therapist, or has long enough.

Dying is not the problem to me, I've been very very close a couple of

times in

my life, and found peace , even with 3 small children. Dying is relatively

easy, and there is grace available, when it gets that far.. Its pain

that I was

talking about, and the fore knowledge that there will be more. Or the yet

undiagnosed illness with all its uncertainties.

This all started because of my involvement in the healing ministry, and my

hearing other ministers and healers putting the blame for the illness on the

sufferer, then and there ,when they had come for solace and prayer. I

have no

problem with therapists for those who feel they want them, ever. The

people I

observed, left unhealed and unloved, but guilty in their own hearts. At one

time, it happened to me, also. It adds burden to men's backs, as we are

cautioned not to do.

How would you react to your own children ( age 12 and 14)being told that their

arthritis was due to their wrong attitude , or whatever.. I decided

instead to

take mine to the doctor, who commiserated, gave advice and medicine and no

lectures. ( I had 2 children with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis who have dealt

with their pain all their lives), I know that stress makes it worse and

so do

they, but they still live in the world and under stress, with 4 children each.

Knowing doesn't automatically heal, and I don't preach about getting

more rest,

they know what to do, but prefer to live as if their disease was " just a great

bother " . I sympathize and say how sorry I am that they got no sleep last night

because of their pain, I sympathize when I see how hard it is for one to sit

down to lunch. I often ask if either has taken her medicine, just like a mother.

I don't try to psychoanalys them or insist they see a therapist. I do

mention in

passing how much it helped me. But at this juncture in their lives, and in

millions of others, there is no time,no money and no energy for one

other thing.

What there is time for is support, love and nonjudgmental compassion.

Toni

Rainbolily@... wrote:

> Morning,

>

> It's fairly normal that pain which is not addressed repeats. A person in a

> " victim " mentality will continue to play out this role until the source of

> the pain is addressed and the person decides to play neither victimizer or

> victim - role reversal being very common in this case.

>

> To illustrate how easily this is picked up, a study was done in prisons,

> which had rapists look at films of women on a street and then several women

> were scanned in. The rapist was asked to choose which woman he would rape.

> The results were startingly. In 100% of the cases, the rapist chose the

> woman who had already been raped. It is there in her body language.

>

> The same happens with Cancer, it continues often to get addressed only to

> resurface, unless some source issues get addressed. Now, frankly, if I were

> that sick, I'd want to get healthy.

>

> I live here in the Virginia countryside. Many of the farmers, including my

> father, would say a horse or a calf born in winter will make the strongest

> animal if they survive.

>

> We get adversity to help us grow stronger and survive. Coddling is lovely,

> we all love to be spoiled and pampered, myself included, unfortunately the

> days where we had our own family diamond-cutter are past. I'm now just an

> average single mother. Yet, I've alot more compassion, and a much greater

> depth of understanding than I did ten years ago when the world was my oyster.

> Had I had parents who demanded less of me, I'd be much worse off now.

>

> Have you all heard of the thousand mile march? When the communists took over

> in China, young American soldiers, old American nuns, and many others took

> off across China for Europe.

>

> Guess who lived?

>

> The old nuns.

>

> They were used to discipline, hard work and abstaining from indulgence. The

> healthy young soldiers died.

>

> Sometimes dying gracefully is a lesson we choose. I have no idea how much

> grace I could muster in the face of death to be honest. I do know in

> crossing the Abyss I truly thought I was dying, and I just gave it all to

> God, and said " you sort it out, it's far beyond me. " Surrender can also be

> an act of humility and service. Probably only a couple of you know this,

> maybe none of you know this because I don't share pain well, has to do with

> being Dutch I think. I did spend 30 days in bed last summer allergic to

> antibiotics. I didn't have health insurance then. The surgeon, my

> brother-in-law said " you'll go to bed or you'll die. " I continued to

> meditate and Tree Travel. I thought, well if I die, I die with the energy of

> Kabbalah.

>

> I am, by the way, now in complete health, no need for mush *g*.

>

> Roses do indeed have thorns,

> Rainbo

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi fa, Phoebe, et al,

Thanks for the input. I used the victim story simply because it's so common

and easily seen, sorry, perhaps an erroneous choice. Perhaps a better choice

would be, " if I cannot speak my truth, I will have throat problems, or

addictive problems " -- fifth chakra issues, " will issues. "

Or, alternatively, I cannot put down roots, I ignore or violate my connection

to the magnetic field of Earth, first chakra issues. I cannot find home.

So, I meditate on sending roots and lighting my first chakra.

Phoebe, I think in the end truth is kindest. I recently broke up with a man

and many of my friends told me what I wanted to hear. Some of my dearest

friends told me the truth. Because they were such old and close friends, I

didn't back away from them, but I promised to think about it and digest their

thoughts and feelings on the issues which involved both work and personal

life.

I then prayed a tremendous amount over the past three weeks for the truth to

be revealed and for both of us to have clear sight and insight.

Those who are newer friends, who told me what I wanted to hear because they

truly do care about me, in the end turned out to be incorrect. White lies,

however meant in kindness are still lies and prolong pain.

Truth cuts through the infective wounds, whether physical or emotional or

mental or spiritual, I prefer the infection to be lanced, cleared, alcohol

applied, and healing begun. I may scream in pain.

I recently had an insight into emotional growth, a short time ago, an insight

that may be very obvious to everyone else.

If I diet, and (I actually don't diet but I used to) I feel pain, then I

began to think " good, I'm losing weight. " If I exercise and I begin to feel

pain, I think " good, I'm getting in shape. " If I am growing emotionally, I

finally realized this may be painful, duh!

So, in essence, I think our discrepancy in perspective, is here: that I

prefer truth, always, because in the end, it is least painful, allows the

greatest growth, and leads to wisdom. Yes, compassion is exceptionally

important.

When my mother blacked out and went into a coma, we sent her straight off to

the hospital. Then we pampered her. Then I told her honestly to get off to

see a nutritionist, because I knew her addiction to chocolate and sugar had

caused the coma, and I also knew she needed a good therapist.

For her chocolate represents the father she lost to the war. You and I may

logically see this as ridiculous, but for her it's very valid. I am

incapable of communicating this to her, I know this. But, I also knew a very

good, intuitive therapist who could help her. And, I'd rather have her

discover her emotional pain, then die. However painful her emotional pain

may be, and I assure you, that this wound for her goes to the core of every

issue she has and has caused extraordinary pain for her and for her family.

So, will it be excruciatingly painful for her to grow? Yes, She will cry

tears she has held in for close to 60 years. But, she'll live. And, if she d

oesn't address this core issue, she will die from it, not figuratively, but

literally. My father actually did die from his core issue, although, he was

much older, and faced his own pain with extraordinary courage, actually much

greater courage and truth than my mother, and more self-integrity. But, my

father's issues came to pass on a world-stage, where he had to take

international politicians to court and friends, whose livelihoods were at

stake. It caused him great suffering to make these choices.

Lack of truth produces projected shadows, black sheep in families, in

societies and on the world stage. These shadows then produce horrors. We

struggle in our ignorance.

I truly do not want to produce shame, blame or guilt, I am merely offering

the fact that the truth is sometimes like the fragrance of a lily and

sometimes like the thorn of a rose, truth, ultimately, saves much greater

pain. I can think of a zillion more examples, but the examples themselves

seem to produce issues, which is not my intent.

Love and Light,

me

[Guest guest]

<< White lies,

however meant in kindness are still lies and prolong pain. >>

who said lies? I said kind. truth... I cannot know yours, nor you mine. but

I'll be we could figure out how to be kind to each other.

lightly spoke,

phoebe

[Guest guest]

Quoting Toni Priest :

I think I\'ll throw a log on this fire. In my journey I

have had circumstances(including illness), hard times, some

self imposed, others just happened(why me? why not?) When

I railed away to someone and I felt heard and validated, I

spent less time feeling like a victim(self pity), shifted

quicker to focusing more on attitude(over circumstance).

Moved more quickly to a place of my own inner power( in

concert with my limitations ). The grace of empathy from

another has enormous healing power. Lord teach me how to

be more empathic....

> Do you think that everyone who is sick or in pain has

a \ " victim

mentality\ " ? I

agree that that which does not kill us makes us strong. No

doubt about

that. I

take it you have a \ " thing\ " about coddling, but don\'t we all

at times

just want

to be held and loved, as you say? Not everyone is strong

enough to go it alone,

or rich enough to afford a therapist, or has long enough.

Dying is not the problem to me, I\'ve been very very close a

couple of

times in

my life, and found peace , even with 3 small children.

Dying is relatively

easy, and there is grace available, when it gets that far..

Its pain

that I was

talking about, and the fore knowledge that there will be

more. Or the yet

undiagnosed illness with all its uncertainties.

This all started because of my involvement in the healing

ministry, and my

hearing other ministers and healers putting the blame for

the illness on the

sufferer, then and there ,when they had come for solace and

prayer. I

have no

problem with therapists for those who feel they want them,

ever. The

people I

observed, left unhealed and unloved, but guilty in their

own hearts. At one

time, it happened to me, also. It adds burden to men\'s

backs, as we are

cautioned not to do.

How would you react to your own children ( age 12 and 14)

being told that their

arthritis was due to their wrong attitude , or whatever.. I

decided

instead to

take mine to the doctor, who commiserated, gave advice and

medicine and no

lectures. ( I had 2 children with juvenile rheumatoid

arthritis who have dealt

with their pain all their lives), I know that stress makes

it worse and

so do

they, but they still live in the world and under stress,

with 4 children each.

Knowing doesn\'t automatically heal, and I don\'t preach

about getting

more rest,

they know what to do, but prefer to live as if their

disease was \ " just a great

bother\ " . I sympathize and say how sorry I am that they got

no sleep last night

because of their pain, I sympathize when I see how hard it

is for one to sit

down to lunch. I often ask if either has taken her

medicine, just like a mother.

I don\'t try to psychoanalys them or insist they see a

therapist. I do

mention in

passing how much it helped me. But at this juncture in

their lives, and in

millions of others, there is no time,no money and no energy

for one

other thing.

What there is time for is support, love and nonjudgmental

compassion.

Toni

Rainbolily@... wrote:

> Morning,

>

> It\'s fairly normal that pain which is not addressed

repeats. A person in a

> \ " victim\ " mentality will continue to play out this role

until the source of

> the pain is addressed and the person decides to play

neither victimizer or

> victim - role reversal being very common in this case.

>

> To illustrate how easily this is picked up, a study was

done in prisons,

> which had rapists look at films of women on a street and

then several women

> were scanned in. The rapist was asked to choose which

woman he would rape.

> The results were startingly. In 100% of the cases, the

rapist chose the

> woman who had already been raped. It is there in her

body language.

>

> The same happens with Cancer, it continues often to get

addressed only to

> resurface, unless some source issues get addressed. Now,

frankly, if I were

> that sick, I\'d want to get healthy.

>

> I live here in the Virginia countryside. Many of the

farmers, including my

> father, would say a horse or a calf born in winter will

make the strongest

> animal if they survive.

>

> We get adversity to help us grow stronger and survive.

Coddling is lovely,

> we all love to be spoiled and pampered, myself included,

unfortunately the

> days where we had our own family diamond-cutter are

past. I\'m now just an

> average single mother. Yet, I\'ve alot more compassion,

and a much greater

> depth of understanding than I did ten years ago when the

world was my oyster.

> Had I had parents who demanded less of me, I\'d be much

worse off now.

>

> Have you all heard of the thousand mile march? When the

communists took over

> in China, young American soldiers, old American nuns, and

many others took

> off across China for Europe.

>

> Guess who lived?

>

> The old nuns.

>

> They were used to discipline, hard work and abstaining

from indulgence. The

> healthy young soldiers died.

>

> Sometimes dying gracefully is a lesson we choose. I have

no idea how much

> grace I could muster in the face of death to be honest.

I do know in

> crossing the Abyss I truly thought I was dying, and I

just gave it all to

> God, and said \ " you sort it out, it\'s far beyond me.\ "

Surrender can also be

> an act of humility and service. Probably only a couple

of you know this,

> maybe none of you know this because I don\'t share pain

well, has to do with

> being Dutch I think. I did spend 30 days in bed last

summer allergic to

> antibiotics. I didn\'t have health insurance then. The

surgeon, my

> brother-in-law said \ " you\'ll go to bed or you\'ll die.\ " I

continued to

> meditate and Tree Travel. I thought, well if I die, I

die with the energy of

> Kabbalah.

>

> I am, by the way, now in complete health, no need for

mush *g*.

>

> Roses do indeed have thorns,

> Rainbo

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phoebe, yes, kind truth! A friend wrote the following recently about

speaking the truth.

> So we speak the essence of the truth without added assumptions. We

> speak mostly of our love and offer our companionship and help. We're not

> saying, " Hey, there's a problem here, you need to fix it. " We are saying,

> " Something appears to be out of kilter, is there some way I can help? "

> Speaking the truth in love isn't about accusations. It's about caring,

In fact we don't ever know The Truth about someone else, and we need to be

very careful and very kind in speaking our version of the truth.

btw, I'm puzzled as to why compassion and therapy/analysis are seen by some

here as opposites. My analyst is a tremendously compassionate and caring

person, and the first person I called when I was in serious pain.

Marilyn

[Guest guest]

As far as telling someone in pain, the truths would first have to asked the

question. I also do not know if " the truth " is mine, or the patients, in this

case. When I am asked, I know he/she is willing and able to hear.

No one ever mentioned lying, which I believe is morally wrong as well as totally

unproductive.

I tend to cringe when people approach me to tell me " god wants me to tell you " I

say, He will have to speak to me directly.

Sometimes people don't want to hear the truth, then I would be silent. I always

wonder about people who cannot wait to tell me what is wrong with me. I wonder

about their motives, which are often not fully thought out.

But, I was speaking of entirely different circumstances, if you all remember

what started all this. Most importantly, I was speaking of people in such pain,

that they would volunteer to be prayed over, in public because they had reached

their limits.

I do not believe that to be the time for a therapy session.

If you had come to my bed when I was very ill, I would not have asked your

advice on how to change my life. I would have been happy just to have your hand

in mine. We need, as fa said, to understand we are talking about different

times in a person's life, and different people as well. There are people ,

strong people who can stand the truth in one large swallow, especially if they

ask for it. There are others who already know it deep in their heart, and want

another's presence to mitigate the pain, and acceptance of who they are right

then. There are things in this life that cannot be " fixed " but only endured.

Compassion, kindness and acceptance are the only medicine for that.

Toni

zozie@... wrote:

>

>

> << White lies,

> however meant in kindness are still lies and prolong pain. >>

>

> who said lies? I said kind. truth... I cannot know yours, nor you mine. but

> I'll be we could figure out how to be kind to each other.

>

> lightly spoke,

> phoebe

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Toni, Annette, et al,

I think we are confusing two separate issues here. It may help if we stop

for a while and define compassion. I like to see compassion as the seat of

Alice's three-legged milking stool (power+wisdom+love).

In the case of these charismatic " healers " as described by Toni - such

people are on a power trip - with or without wisdom - and certainly lacking

in love.

True compassion does not preach - but, neither should it be confused with

the kind of misplaced, gloppy sympathy which is in danger of " understanding "

a delinquent teenager all the way to Death Row!

Think of the training given to doctors and nurses who work on the emergency

wards. A patient is rushed in, having suffered a major cardiac arrest. There

is no time to stand around debating about how he or she may have contributed

to their condition by their lifestyle - the priority is to do all in their

power to save life. The questions put to the near relatives are kept to the

bare minimum and confined to necessary information which could have a

bearing on the form of treatment given. Assuming they are successful and the

patient recovers, the questions increase and are related to smoking, diet,

stress levels, alcohol use etc. - not in order to apportion " blame " , but to

see what lifestyle changes will be necessary in the future to give the

patient a chance of a normal life. My father - a non-smoker for many years,

who barely drinks, has a phlegmatic temperament and is if anything

underweight - had a massive heart attack three years ago. There is no

history of heart disease in his family and it was completely unexpected.

Fortunately he made a full recovery. It transpired that the reason was that

his cholesterol level was almost twice as high as it should be. This was due

to the fact that he has always been a person who can eat like a horse

without putting on an ounce - so he had got into bad habits and eaten too

many of the " wrong " foods. No-one preached at him or gave him a guilt-trip

about this, but he was given sensible advice about the kind of low-fat, high

carbohydrate diet which he should follow in the future. He took the warning

very seriously and proudly reported to me after his last check-up that his

cholesterol is now slightly lower than average!

Emotional trauma is pretty much the same. Just off the top of my head, I can

think of six people whose stories of rape and abuse I have heard in recent

years. As it happens, all of these are young women - although it's worth

mentioning that it happens to men and to old people as well. Some had at one

stage adopted what Annette might call " victim mentalities " (two had a

history of becoming involved with abusive men) - and the others had not. All

six had two things in common - their rapists were either family members or

close friends/boyfriends, and all felt (erroneously) that they were to blame

for what happened to them. The immediate priority of an analyst in this

situation is to reassure the victim that, no matter how they were dressed or

what the circumstances, NO ONE asks to be raped. One girl's analyst actually

rocked her in her lap when she finally found the courage to tell her story -

the woman in question was a child at the time of her attack and the analyst

(quite rightly) addressed the child she was *then*, before discussing how

this affected her behaviour as an adult. In the cases where the women had

developed a pattern of abusive relationships, they had to look at this

pattern and work out how to break it - but this could only be done once they

had been reassured that their analyst would listen without judging them, and

would share their pain and indignation about being violated.

fa