Re: Re: Typology

June 21, 2000

Is it possible as one gets older that the opposites or weaker functions

become stronger and the stronger ones weaker?

I find my answers to some of those tests have changed mightily in the last

ten years, or do i just know myself less well?

I " m talking about typology

Toni

>

> --

> > " The various type test all have their place in helping a person

> find

> > their type, but nothing substitutes for self-knowledge. The big

> > problem with any test is that since we are composed of many

> > souls, or as an analytical psychologist would say, complexes,

> > each of which has its own type, you can never be sure when the

> > test says you're such and such a type which soul or complex has

> > taken the test.

> >

> > Moderate moderator

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.

> Remember the good 'ol days

> http://click./1/5531/9/_/642966/_/961547053/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

June 22, 2000

Beebe's caveat that it depends very much on the persona -

the 'complex' - taking the test at the time, is very much to the

point, Toni... The whole point with anything that is not the totality of

the Self is that it will ALWAYS be changing, ALWAYS not what it

seems because inevitably conditioned by everything else. The

constellation of lesser selves are, in fact, nothing but names in that

they exist primarily as *response* to a series of given situations

which are, themselves, equally fleeting and lacking in ultimate

consistency.

A good way to visualise this is to imagine throwing a huge party to

which you've invited everyone you know. Since some of them know

you for one thing and some for another, some like you and some

don't and so on, it's interesting to imagine some of the possible

relationships these people might strike up among themselves, with

and without reference to you and in and through time (and the

possibilities are mind-boggling!)...

Since even the apparent 'causes' are conditioned results of other

causes, major, minor and contributing, of course everything is

subject to change, and this not only 'with time', as the expression

goes, but even moment-to-moment.

There is a Zen saying that has always pleased me: " The stillness

in stillness is not really stillness; the stillness withinin motion is

stillness indeed! " ... This is exactly the sense of the 'magic circle' I

was speaking about last night - Learning to be and not to *be* - to

be totally present and yet unmanipulative in every instant of any

act... natural, uncontrived, open and responsive to all and every

nuance and yet without the least grasping attachment to any part

of it as establishing a 'real' Of course everything is 'real' in the

sense that it is always and inevitably there in all its fountaining

magnificence, but... is spring more real than summer, or youth

than old-age, life than death, the light when it's on than when it's

off? Obviously not: only different phases of the same or similar

thing (since no two springs or even moments are alike).

So things evolve, shift and become themselves more perfectly.

They also decay, shift, die out and change form entirely. This is the

whole basis of the I Ching - that if anything 'exists' at all, it is

'Change... The Buddhist would hasten to assure you that 'Change',

too, is only a name - that it has no 'essence of change' by which it

might be grasped and demonstrated as " This is it " ...

In the Diamond Sutra the Buddha says that the Bodhisattva - the

one whose entire being is vowed to universal enlightenment - is one

who gives rise to a mind that is unsupported anywhere. This

'unsupportedness' is the gateway to true openness and the real

beginning of the path...

Forgive these early morning maunderings on the first day of the

now-germinating seed of the yin enwrapped in its integument of

fructifying, self-consuming yang... Ho! The processional year!

m

June 22, 2000

In a message dated 00-06-22 04:34:57 EDT, you write:

<< Has anyone seen such a book

discussing typology in development >>

I could look it up, but off the top of my head- was it, " Prayer and

Temperament " ?

GB

June 22, 2000

Marlyn, that was fasc but complicated - all becomes so much more fluid n

differentiated in the astrol cht - the typology chops us up into blocks yet

is handy n even humorous.

best descr ever of typ at work is writt by a german woman who imagines a

dinnerparty w/all types involved. hilarious n an application of the ideas.

it''s in Centerpoint I

in my ho the psyche is full of luminescent chiaroscuro

we lose something pulling out the petals of daisy analysing the nature of a

daisy. in the end tolerance of differences, honest self-observance, patience

n compassion help balance the fierce analytical passion of Virgo w/the

synthesis of Pisces.[process not sign]

one cannot fold a cloud n put it in a drawer! says Pisces process which

floats on chaos n where would Virgo analysis be w/out chaos to put in order!

neat thing ab astrol in this connection is the supreme paradox EVERYBODY's

chart has the SAME ingredients but no 2 are alike -

i don't think typology can go that far, but it helps many to understand

where anoth is coming from

forgive rambling, am recov fr fever n bug, but how i enjoy u all!

love fr the antique dept

June 22, 2000

<< This rather uncomfortable period resulted in

much more balance in my life, and I retroactively appreciated it.

I've certainly been aware in analysis of working on the various

functions, especially my rather wounded third function and my inferior

function.

Shortly after that time I found a book by a woman author whose name I

can't remember, a Jungian, describing the developmental task of working

on each function. The author placed the work on the inferior function

in the 40s, so I guess I was on schedule. Has anyone seen such a book

discussing typology in developmental terms -- I have no idea what it was

called or who wrote it, but it made much sense. >>

Marilyn,

I don't know if this is the book you thinking about, but there is an

excellent one by Lenore Thomson, a Jungian from New York, PERSONALITY TYPE -

An Owner's Manual, 1998, Shambala, in which she spends considerable time

talking about developing the inferior function. Here is an excerpt:

" Our psyche, remember, is millions of years old -- as old as the human race.

When we differentiate our best functions, we're acapting them, making them

useful in our particular life situation. The functions we haven't

differenctiated are still archaic and primitive. They haven't been refined by

the trial and error of real experience....When we rely on our dominant

function for all our answers, we usually wind oup like Alice, running hard

just to stay in place. Or we feel stuck, without options, unable to decide

what to do. This feeling of being stuck is always the give-away. It tells

us that our attitudes need work. We're not seeing the situation from a broad

enough perspective....Because our secondary attitudes are not our strongest

suit, sometimes we need an objective observer to tell us how to proceed. But

even a half-hearted attempt in this direction inevitably makes us more

conscious. We stop thinking that the world has it in for us and start to

take responsibitity for ourselves. "

Great book.

Greg

June 22, 2000

<< one cannot fold a cloud n put it in a drawer! says Pisces process which

floats on chaos n where would Virgo analysis be w/out chaos to put in order!

>>

That's me A.O. Pisces still rising in Virgo land. All my drawers are

filling up with clouds. Need more cupboards.

Smiling and winking at my favorite astrologer.

Greg

June 23, 2000

Thanks for your " early morning Mauderings. " You have given my some

answers, now its time for me to think some more. Thanks again

Toni

cloudhand@... wrote:

> Beebe's caveat that it depends very much on the persona -

> the 'complex' - taking the test at the time, is very much to the

> point, Toni... The whole point with anything that is not the totality of

> the Self is that it will ALWAYS be changing, ALWAYS not what it

> seems because inevitably conditioned by everything else. The

> constellation of lesser selves are, in fact, nothing but names in that

> they exist primarily as *response* to a series of given situations

> which are, themselves, equally fleeting and lacking in ultimate

> consistency.

> A good way to visualise this is to imagine throwing a huge party to

> which you've invited everyone you know. Since some of them know

> you for one thing and some for another, some like you and some

> don't and so on, it's interesting to imagine some of the possible

> relationships these people might strike up among themselves, with

> and without reference to you and in and through time (and the

> possibilities are mind-boggling!)...

> Since even the apparent 'causes' are conditioned results of other

> causes, major, minor and contributing, of course everything is

> subject to change, and this not only 'with time', as the expression

> goes, but even moment-to-moment.

> There is a Zen saying that has always pleased me: " The stillness

> in stillness is not really stillness; the stillness withinin motion is

> stillness indeed! " ... This is exactly the sense of the 'magic circle' I

> was speaking about last night - Learning to be and not to *be* - to

> be totally present and yet unmanipulative in every instant of any

> act... natural, uncontrived, open and responsive to all and every

> nuance and yet without the least grasping attachment to any part

> of it as establishing a 'real' Of course everything is 'real' in the

> sense that it is always and inevitably there in all its fountaining

> magnificence, but... is spring more real than summer, or youth

> than old-age, life than death, the light when it's on than when it's

> off? Obviously not: only different phases of the same or similar

> thing (since no two springs or even moments are alike).

> So things evolve, shift and become themselves more perfectly.

> They also decay, shift, die out and change form entirely. This is the

> whole basis of the I Ching - that if anything 'exists' at all, it is

> 'Change... The Buddhist would hasten to assure you that 'Change',

> too, is only a name - that it has no 'essence of change' by which it

> might be grasped and demonstrated as " This is it " ...

> In the Diamond Sutra the Buddha says that the Bodhisattva - the

> one whose entire being is vowed to universal enlightenment - is one

> who gives rise to a mind that is unsupported anywhere. This

> 'unsupportedness' is the gateway to true openness and the real

> beginning of the path...

> Forgive these early morning maunderings on the first day of the

> now-germinating seed of the yin enwrapped in its integument of

> fructifying, self-consuming yang... Ho! The processional year!

>

> m

>

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July 17, 2000

Hi, Meant to thank you for your answer. Thanks again, Toni