Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 Ahhh Muse, an interesting post... << Perhaps someday he will yet marry his generous mistress. Stop denying her. >> Or -- maybe not. She does her best work without boundaries. smiling, phoebe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 In reading Nietzsche's BIRTH OF TRAGEDY (re Wilde, as they are wonderful bedfellows!), I am always struck by how very much I like Nietzsche, and especially so in this work where I see the feminine integrating principle of darkness and synthesis, and so much of Jung, and so much of The Dark Places of Wisdom celebrated. But why Nietzsche's misogyny in his everyday life? Why the misogyny of analysis, except that it is -- as Hillman says so well in his MYTH OF ANALYSIS -- so very 19th Century? Analysis is always a cutting apart. It's a vivisection. And Life and Soulmaking are syncretic. But - one works with what they have: Empiricism is dependent on the senses for cold data, and it sees but one thing at a time. However -- I am much comforted by the quiet way Art comes around to pick up after her tyrant... Her fancyman Science comes home to her after he has pontificated at the corporate table, then reenacts this at the dinner table, smoking his cigars as he blusters and get his blood pressure up. By god, he has a heart yet! Then -- Art opens the window and makes the atmosphere healthy again. For she is in the business of Soulmaking. (Imitate the Creator, after all. Woman's work. ) She gets her tyrant up off the sofa and out into life -- where the soul needs to be. She charmingly prods the analyst out along into the streets, under the sun and moon, for some exercise that might possibly work to save his heart. Perhaps someday he will yet marry his generous mistress. Stop denying her. Meanwhile, she takes care of him and keeps him from drawing out his mighty sword in rage -- as she can. Art knows seduction is soft, gentle, done in candlelight. A great improvement on rape. The Greeks has no word for rape. Imagine that... Penetrator and penetrated was the way they put it. Strange names for Lover and Beloved. But one way or another, the sacred marriage will take place. Else it all falls away. My goodness! I just groked that THE BRIDE took one level further! , you were onto something in your wondrous bawdy goddess way with Hesse and Demian as the Grail Myth. It is so very true. And as ever, it is the myth that is Soulmaking. The artist does the lasting therapy of the generation. This is a comfort. For example: When I worry that the school board in this town is stocked by Fundamentalists, I know that there are Star Wars and Lion Kings and -- SOON (mythical soon) coming to a theater near you -- Lord of the Rings will arrive to compensate these children's soulmaking. Blessed be technology. The devil isn't just in Disneyland. Carroll is always telling me the tale of Jung kicking the woman down the stairs, but I don't believe it. (Do I?) I know in my heart of hearts that Jung had gotten right with the goddess, with the dark feminine. Evening light and morning light are the Stars of Venus, after all, and he counseled us to walk in both. (Yet -- so did Socates. Did not Plato feel some quilt for turning from the sublime wisdom of the Symposium?) But - perhaps it was a symptom of the times, and it is the times, when everything must be gotten right with the new god of Science. I think it is misogyny in its final throes. " . . . . I have never wearied of emphasizing that one-sidedness and dogmatism harbor in themselves the gravest dangers precisely in the domain of psychology. The psychologist should constantly bear in mind that his hypothesis is no more than his own subjective premise and can therefore never lay immediate claim to general validity. . . . . The phenomenology of the psyche is so colorful, so variegated in form and meaning, that we cannot possibly reflect all its riches in *one* mirror. " By my soul, Deborah " Man is no longer the artist, he has become the work of art. " ~Nietzsche speaking of the Dionysian impulse as an 'intoxication'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 WELCOME BACK!!! am preparing an Eranos for Apollo n Baubo tonight - soma on the rocks! happy happy ao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 To: JUNG-FIREegroups From: zozie@... Date sent: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 12:47:33 EDT Send reply to: JUNG-FIREegroups Subject: Re: soul and soulmaking > Ahhh Muse, an interesting post... > > > << Perhaps someday he will yet marry his generous mistress. Stop denying her. > >> > > Or -- maybe not. She does her best work without boundaries. *So - if only he knew it! - does he. In fact, marriage being the harmonious support by the one of the other, this is what the hieros gamos is actually all about. Not two becoming one; one becoming two. m 'Change? - Well... there's a river flowing but most of the bridges still stand' - Mavro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 Well, at least you didn't say she did her best work on her back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2000 Report Share Posted July 27, 2000 > WELCOME BACK!!! > > am preparing an Eranos for Apollo n Baubo tonight - soma on the rocks! > > happy happy > > ao It's for you, alice. Rock on bawdy Baubo! You make me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 > Well, at least you didn't say she did her best work on her back. *Oh, she's done some pretty fine work there, too, believe me! It's just on *other people's* backs - or with them on hers - that things become... hampered... m 'Everything you know is wrong' - The battle cry of the Firesign Theatre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 I get the strange feeling that all this is based on my reply to your 'at least you didn't say on her back' post. Am I right? Read what I said again. There is nothing flippant about it at all. It is meant to be a joke, sure, but also to point out that the dance is only blocked when we get in each other's and our own way. I thought you at least trusted my friendship more than that. Apparently not. No matter. But I would point out that there's a time lag between mails. Very often you are answering one and I quite another. I am more than a little confused. I thought we really were friends - con-spirators... I don't think like a woman for a very simple reason. But I do know I can't reach you. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2000 Report Share Posted July 28, 2000 Sorry. Delete that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2000 Report Share Posted July 30, 2000 Maureen asked me to forward. soul and soulmaking > > > > Analysis is always a cutting apart. It's a vivisection. And Life and > > > Soulmaking are syncretic. > > Deborah, with her exuberant passion for truth and poetry of soul, > always inspires me to see the other side of the same coin; that's > why we're a wholesome pair of pals - a syzygy of androgynes! > As CG sez, for every psychological truth, its opposite is equally > valid . . . Soul-making is (also) an agonizing dissection, a > 'dis-integration', a falling apart, a letting go, a dissolution leading > to a solution; Eros with his flaming sword, Hades raping to > expose the innocent heart to the wealth hidden in dark truth, > soul dismembered, then counting and naming its bones, the ego > exploded throughout Nature, Dionysus tearing to pieces in agony > and ecstasy entwined. Apollo (as 'spirit') unifies, synthesises, > calms, focuses; soul celebrates androgyny, ambivalence, the loss of > egoic personal boundaries through our dissolution (analysis) in > the soul soups of anima mundi and unus mundus. That's why > divine madness and soul are inseparable. > > > Art knows seduction is soft, gentle, done in > > > candlelight. A great improvement on rape. The Greeks has no word for rape. > > > Imagine that... Penetrator and penetrated was the way they put it. > > > Strange names for Lover and Beloved. But one way or another, the sacred > > > marriage will take place. > > Even through rape, incest, temporary psychosis, or alien > abduction. Soulmaking, like art and Nature, transcends morality. > The Greeks had the myth - which transcends the literal and > verbal. Recall Christ: the Kingdom of Heaven suffers violence - > and the violent (servants of Eros, the ravisher) take it by force. > The archetype knows no mercy. I know it - I was recently > overpowered, like Danae, by Zeus as a shower of dark gold in an > archetypal dream. I was powerless to resist. The heart driven > through by a smiling angel's ruthless sword - this is soul's > analysis - terror and ecstasy entwined . . . > > As Deborah says: > > The phenomenology of the > > > psyche is so colorful, so variegated in form and meaning, that we cannot > > > possibly reflect all its riches in *one* mirror. " > > In Eros Aeternus > Maureen/ " The Dark " Nathair > " The Self embraces the love of power through the power of > love. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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