Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 For the chemists: Are you familiar with a preservative called EUXYL K 700? Snowdrift is carrying it. This is what their website says: " Made in Germany by Schulke & Mayr, this compound preservative was designed to address the problems associated with single-product preservatives. Additionally, it is approved as safe for use in Japan, unlike Germaben products. " EUXYL K 700 contains sorbic acid, phenoxyethanol, benzyl alcohol and tocopherols as the active ingredients. " EUXYL K 700 should be used at pH 5.5 and less, alone. Since there are no parabens in EUXYL K 700, there are no restrictions on its use with PEG compounds. Normal use rate for EUXYL K 700 is 0.5 - 1.0%. As it is an aqueous solution, it is readily water-dispersable. " Jeanne __________________ SereneSense™ Soaps & Toiletries http://www.serenesense.com (coming soon!) jet@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 9, 2001 Report Share Posted July 9, 2001 >Additionally, it is approved as safe for use in Japan, unlike Germaben >products. What are the concerns about Germaben that excludes it for use in Japan? Soros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Maurice wrote: > " Made in Germany by Schulke & Mayr, this compound preservative was designed >to address the problems associated with single-product preservatives. >Additionally, it is approved as safe for use in Japan, unlike Germaben >products. I wonder how many homecrafters are exporting their personal care products to Japan?<< Enough customers for us to want to become Schulke & Mayr's partner, Maurice :-) The internet is AKA the world wide web, and we have numerous patrons in the Pacific Rim and Europe. Additionally, our clients, all around the world, tell us there is a " level of comfort " associated with using a product that has been approved for use in Japan. We listened to them, and responded with a product they wanted in a price range that is affordable to most. Pat wrote: >>Jeanne, I'm not the chemists, but why would I want to use a preservative that has to be used with a pH of less than 5.5? I don't know how many of our members own a pH meter, but to use this you would need one.<< Most of the emulsifying systems that are commonly used in lotions tend toward acidic pH's, esp. those which employ glyceryl monostearate and/or palm stearic acid. We do not recommend use in a pH over 5.5, without the addition of any of the paraben groups. We recommend using .1% parabens in this instance. Please recall there is a chance your PEG oils may deactivate under parabens. Tweens are not deactivated (polysorbates). Thank you for bringing to my attention that we do not mention the addition of parabens if you will be using Euxyl K 700 in a product where the pH is over 5.5, at our website. I have added this info to the Euxyl entry at our website. pH paper can be used to estimate the pH of lotion, though a pH meter is more exacting. I routinely check the pH of everything that leaves here - whether it's a gift or for sale. That's how I do things. You may do things differently. Most disturbing to me is the tone used by the " framers " of this list in regard to Snowdrift Farm and our business practices. We have always stood behind every product we sell, and continue to do so. We offer excellent service and prices. Our principle chemist, (who many of you know is my husband Bill,) has degrees in Chemistry from Colorado State University. Bill was born into a family of chemists: his mother is an MSc and his dad, with a PhD in Chemistry, headed up the Chemistry Dept. at University of Saskatchewan/Regina for many years. Though they are both retired, they lend their well-rounded knowledge bases to Snowdrift Farm whenever we ask. Bill has worked for 12+ years developing contact lens materials and wetting agents for -Hind, as well as working as a contract employee for them ( 3 +/- yrs), a major manufacturer in this arena. Bill ran many pilot programs for them. He developed many products that are suitable for use IN THE EYE while a -Hind employee. With 3 chemists at the helm, with a total of over 128 years of experience between them, I think we're doing OK at Snowdrift Farm. Young wrote: >>I stand behind my past comments about Snowdrift and do not need to reiterate them now. I have been very vocal about Snowdrift on at least two other lists that I formerly inhabited.<snipped>... I will simply say that four peers of this industry, two of whom are well published and are adjunct faculty in cosmetic science at FDU have confronted Snowdrift on numerous issues of fact and fantasy...<snipped>... etc etc etc etc etc.........<< Like Mr. Young, I have no interest in rehashing the past, except to say that I truly mean it. Whenever valid questions are asked, they are answered. We do not respond to bullying. Sincerely, Trina Wallace -- Shea Butter@$6.75 per pound! http://www.SnowdriftFarm.com Quality Doesn't Have to Cost a Fortune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Maurice wrote: > " Made in Germany by Schulke & Mayr, this compound preservative was designed >to address the problems associated with single-product preservatives. >Additionally, it is approved as safe for use in Japan, unlike Germaben >products. I wonder how many homecrafters are exporting their personal care products to Japan?<< Enough customers for us to want to become Schulke & Mayr's partner, Maurice :-) The internet is AKA the world wide web, and we have numerous patrons in the Pacific Rim and Europe. Additionally, our clients, all around the world, tell us there is a " level of comfort " associated with using a product that has been approved for use in Japan. We listened to them, and responded with a product they wanted in a price range that is affordable to most. Pat wrote: >>Jeanne, I'm not the chemists, but why would I want to use a preservative that has to be used with a pH of less than 5.5? I don't know how many of our members own a pH meter, but to use this you would need one.<< Most of the emulsifying systems that are commonly used in lotions tend toward acidic pH's, esp. those which employ glyceryl monostearate and/or palm stearic acid. We do not recommend use in a pH over 5.5, without the addition of any of the paraben groups. We recommend using .1% parabens in this instance. Please recall there is a chance your PEG oils may deactivate under parabens. Tweens are not deactivated (polysorbates). Thank you for bringing to my attention that we do not mention the addition of parabens if you will be using Euxyl K 700 in a product where the pH is over 5.5, at our website. I have added this info to the Euxyl entry at our website. pH paper can be used to estimate the pH of lotion, though a pH meter is more exacting. I routinely check the pH of everything that leaves here - whether it's a gift or for sale. That's how I do things. You may do things differently. Most disturbing to me is the tone used by the " framers " of this list in regard to Snowdrift Farm and our business practices. We have always stood behind every product we sell, and continue to do so. We offer excellent service and prices. Our principle chemist, (who many of you know is my husband Bill,) has degrees in Chemistry from Colorado State University. Bill was born into a family of chemists: his mother is an MSc and his dad, with a PhD in Chemistry, headed up the Chemistry Dept. at University of Saskatchewan/Regina for many years. Though they are both retired, they lend their well-rounded knowledge bases to Snowdrift Farm whenever we ask. Bill has worked for 12+ years developing contact lens materials and wetting agents for -Hind, as well as working as a contract employee for them ( 3 +/- yrs), a major manufacturer in this arena. Bill ran many pilot programs for them. He developed many products that are suitable for use IN THE EYE while a -Hind employee. With 3 chemists at the helm, with a total of over 128 years of experience between them, I think we're doing OK at Snowdrift Farm. Young wrote: >>I stand behind my past comments about Snowdrift and do not need to reiterate them now. I have been very vocal about Snowdrift on at least two other lists that I formerly inhabited.<snipped>... I will simply say that four peers of this industry, two of whom are well published and are adjunct faculty in cosmetic science at FDU have confronted Snowdrift on numerous issues of fact and fantasy...<snipped>... etc etc etc etc etc.........<< Like Mr. Young, I have no interest in rehashing the past, except to say that I truly mean it. Whenever valid questions are asked, they are answered. We do not respond to bullying. Sincerely, Trina Wallace -- Shea Butter@$6.75 per pound! http://www.SnowdriftFarm.com Quality Doesn't Have to Cost a Fortune! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 10, 2001 Report Share Posted July 10, 2001 Trina wrote. > pH paper can be used to estimate the pH of lotion, though a pH meter is more > exacting. Trina, pH paper is good for giving you an idea of the pH. When your clients are selling their product and using a preservative that is active in a pH of -5.5 I think it would be in their best interest to use a meter. > Most disturbing to me is the tone used by the " framers " of this list in > regard to Snowdrift Farm and our business practices. We have always stood > behind every product we sell, and continue to do so. We offer excellent > service and prices. I don't think I ever recall anyone saying anything about your service or whether you stand behind your products. The main complaints I have seen have been about misleading or false statements put out by your company. I do recall one instance about your pricing of Dendritic salt and how it could be purchased at a fraction of what you charge if bought through a traditional supplier. Our principle chemist, (who many of you know is my > husband Bill,) has degrees in Chemistry from Colorado State University. Nobody has ever disputed that Bill is a chemist. This is exactly why he is being held to a higher degree of accountability than other resellers. He, above all people, should know better than to give misleading information. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity. www.houseofscents.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 Hello Pat, I thought your email came to me privately. As you know, I am on the digest and do not receive emails as they are written to the list. Like you, I work all day, and part of the night, too. I read and answer my email as I can. I have no problem sharing this email with the list. Sincerely, Trina Wallace Re: RE: Euxyl K 700 Trina, I don't know if you intended you email to be private or to the list. I came as a private email to me. If you intended it for the list you will need to resend it to the list, if not, I will be glad to answer you privately. Just let me know. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Re: RE: Euxyl K 700 > > > Trina wrote. > > pH paper can be used to estimate the pH of lotion, though a pH meter is > more > > exacting. > > Trina, pH paper is good for giving you an idea of the pH. When your clients > are selling their product and using a preservative that is active in a pH > of -5.5 I think it would be in their best interest to use a meter. > > > Most disturbing to me is the tone used by the " framers " of this list in > > regard to Snowdrift Farm and our business practices. We have always stood > > behind every product we sell, and continue to do so. We offer excellent > > service and prices. > > I don't think I ever recall anyone saying anything about your service or > whether you stand behind your products. The main complaints I have seen have > been about misleading or false statements put out by your company. I do > recall one instance about your pricing of Dendritic salt and how it could be > purchased at a fraction of what you charge if bought through a traditional > supplier. > > Our principle chemist, (who many of you know is my > > husband Bill,) has degrees in Chemistry from Colorado State University. > > Nobody has ever disputed that Bill is a chemist. This is exactly why he is > being held to a higher degree of accountability than other resellers. He, > above all people, should know better than to give misleading information. > > Pat. > Peace, Joy, Serenity. > www.houseofscents.com > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 11, 2001 Report Share Posted July 11, 2001 > Pat, I can not see any difference between what I have written about testing > pH levels and what you are contending. Are you saying I wasn't pointed > enough about using a meter? Exactly, Trina. In your original post you went on to say that you use pH strips routinely. Which is fine except it could leave the impression that the strips are ok to use with this particular preservative. I am not familiar with this preservative except what I have read from you. It is my understanding that it can become inactive at a pH of 5.5+. If this is the case, then I think the extra caution is warranted since a majority of home-crafters rarely if ever have their lotions, etc. challenge tested. As for the dendritic > salt, yes, Pat, it's completely true that if you purchase a pallet of > anything, you will pay a lower price than if you purchase a pound at a time. > I would never deny that. I'm unclear about your issue here, too. I don't have an issue with your pricing and I am well aware that you must charge more per pound when you sell in smaller quantities. I was answering your concerns with this list, one by one. Since the price of dentritic salt was discussed-specifically your pricing-on this list, I didn't want to be accused of ignoring that. If I recall the conversation correctly, it wasn't comparing a pallet to a pound, it was looking at the price of a 50 pound bag that, I think cost about $35.00 I'm sure if you want to check the archives you will be able to find it. If I was the one that had posted the article, I would remember the figures. > I suppose we differ on what you would consider " false or misleading > statements " . I'm not completely sure what statements you may mean, nor am I > certain who or what you may be using as the standard for " truth " . Well Trina, it's not like I am keeping up on what you guys are doing, but as I recall from a while back your description of where your potassium sorbate comes from is slightly misleading. You mention that it comes from the mountain ash, which it can, except in the US it is manufactured in a lab. You don't mention anything about it being synthetic and leave your customers with the impression that what they buy from you is natural. I would never consider it for a preservative for a lotion or cream, and if my memory serves me, you don't use it either in your bases. I recall writing to Bill (privately) about him confusing tocopherol with tocopheryl acetate. Bill was talking about antioxidants and comparing it to roe. The problem was he was calling it tocopherol acetate and there is no such product that I am aware of. According to the manufacturer tocopherol is the antioxidant and tocopheryl acetate is used as an emollient enhancer. He never did write back to me and when I brought it up to him on a list later, he didn't answer either. Now, you have told me personally that he does answer unless someone is giving him a bunch of crap. I wasn't, I simply asked the questions. I believe that there are some inaccuracies in his latest news letter on preservatives, but you have implied that I would be guilty of copyright infringement if I were to post it to this list. I know this would open it up to the scrutiny of the chemists on this list, but if what he is writing is correct, then what do you have to fear? Most business' would be glad to get their advertising in front of 500+ potential customers. Like I mentioned to you previously, if you want to post it, feel free. Simply > because we do not concur with Mr. Young does not mean that we are > perpetrating a crime. Conversely, many false and misleading statements have > been made by Mr. Young about Snowdrift Farm. For the most part, this discussion has been between you and I. has remained relatively quite. If we are speaking about chemistry, usually is accurate unless he misunderstands the question. If you are talking about your experiences on another list, then that is not a concern of mine. When I started this list it was because I was frustrated with people that didn't want to follow the FDA rules, not use proper preservation methods, insisting that there were effective natural preservatives. I knew in my heart that there were people out there that wanted to do things properly and that given the opportunity they would come. The first evening there was me. I sent out about a half dozen invitations and Maurice and a few others joined the following day. came a few days later. The numbers speak for themselves. We lose some every now and then, especially when serious conversations like this come up. Then the ones that leave finally realize that we are deadly serious about getting out accurate information and dispelling myths. This is not a game with us. I believe that people are inherently good, that given the chance they will do what is right. This is why when you tell me about all the degrees that Bill has and I remember reading some of what he says, I find it difficult to reconcile both. I am not a chemist, but if I can see inaccuracies in what he writes, surely he can see this also? When I point it out to him, he doesn't even acknowledge it. What kind of message does that send? When his own peers point out inaccuracies, rather than admit he may be mistaken, he writes reams and reams attempting to justify his position. Perhaps you can explain it, but I sure don't get it. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. pat@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 12, 2001 Report Share Posted July 12, 2001 > If I recall the conversation correctly, it wasn't > comparing a pallet to a pound, it was looking at the price of a 50 pound bag > that, I think cost about $35.00 I'm sure if you want to check the archives > you will be able to find it. If I was the one that had posted the article, I > would remember the figures. The price mentioned for a 50-lb bag of Morton's Star Flake dendritic salt was in fact $7.10. Snowdrift sells a 5-lb bag for $5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.