Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ralph Giarnella MD wrote: <<<I have been following this discussion with some interest. To this point no one has defined what is meant by an anaerobic sport. Most of the examples cited- boxing, tennis, soccer, martial arts etc, the way I see are in reality high intensity aerobic sports.... I would be interested in reading the opinions of other as to what consitutes an anaerobic sport.>>> Ralph, Duration Classification Energy Supplied By 1 to 4 seconds Anaerobic ATP (in muscles) 4 to 20 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC 20 to 45 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC + Muscle glycogen 45 to 120 seconds Anaerobic, Lactic Muscle glycogen 120 to 240 seconds Aerobic + Anaerobic Muscle glycogen + lactic 240 to 600 seconds Aerobic Muscle glycogen + fatty acids Energy System recruitment Although all energy systems basically turn on at the same time the recruitment of an alternative system occurs when the current energy system is almost depleted. The following table provides an approximation of the percentage contribution of the energy pathways in certain sports. (Fox et al 1993) Sport ATP-PC and LA LA-O2 O2(aerobic) Basketball 60 20 20 Fencing 90 10 Field events 90 10 Golf swing 95 5 Gymnastics 80 15 5 Hockey 50 20 30 Distance running 10 20 70 Rowing 20 30 50 Skiing 33 33 33 Soccer 50 20 30 Sprints 90 10 Swimming 1.5km 10 20 70 Tennis 70 20 10 Volleyball 80 5 15 " Table adapted from Fox E. L. et al, The Physiological Basis for Exercise and Sport, 1993 " As you can see by the tables above, the sports you mentioned as being high intensity aerobic are for the most part purely anaerobic before the primary energy system used is exhausted and then moves on to the next available energy source. " Without endurance do you think a boxer would be able to throw a knock out punch in the 15th round after running around the ring, dancing and weaving for 45 minutes? " If the primary energy used in a boxers preparation for a fight is aerobic, chances are that he wont even be able to reach the 15th round or throw any kind of punches with speed or power. Just because 1 round lasts 180 seconds dos not imply that the energy required is aerobic. For the sports that you mentioned, boxing, tennis, soccer, martial arts etc, it would be better to evaluate the energy system pathway from a more simplistic approach and break it down to a " per round, per set, per shift(hockey)per play(football)per point(tennis) view " ect.and from there evaluate the need of the athlete and his weakness. Due to the old school mentality that still exists in boxing, conditioning outside the ring a 3:1 ratio is still very predominant. In my opinion, training them that way outside the ring will do very little to help them and will probably cause injury from overuse. In boxing, basketball, baseball, hockey, tennis, soccer, martial arts, they always explode with high energy output followed by a state of rest and " actively resting " (which for most well conditioned athletes is like a walk in the park) so on and so forth until resting for the sport given interval and back again. Boxing 1 minute per round, tennis has more frequent breaks per set and per match and for the most part energy output is very high and short from a point scored to the next. Baseball being purely (AAP) alactic anaerobic power, in competition(game time) In my opinion, a few major key components in all sports is strength-endurance and the ability to recuperate after a high energy output (being able to perform at peak levels under repetitive high force output conditions) I hope this answers your question somewhat as there is much more we can discuss about this topic.EX:limit strength,strength- speed,speed strength. Terry Mavroudis Montreal,Canada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 --- terry_thebeast_trainz wrote: > Duration Classification Energy Supplied > By > 1 to 4 seconds Anaerobic ATP (in muscles) > 4 to 20 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC > 20 to 45 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC + Muscle > glycogen > 45 to 120 seconds Anaerobic, Lactic Muscle > glycogen > 120 to 240 seconds Aerobic + Anaerobic Muscle > glycogen + lactic > 240 to 600 seconds Aerobic Muscle glycogen + > fatty acids > > Energy System recruitment > > Although all energy systems basically turn on at the > same time the > recruitment of an alternative system occurs when the > current energy > system is almost depleted. > > The following table provides an approximation of the > percentage > contribution of the energy pathways in certain > sports. (Fox et al > 1993) > > Sport ATP-PC and LA LA-O2 > O2(aerobic) > Basketball 60 20 > 20 > Fencing 90 10 > Field events 90 10 > Golf swing 95 5 > Gymnastics 80 15 > 5 > Hockey 50 20 30 > Distance running 10 20 > 70 > Rowing 20 30 > 50 > Skiing 33 33 > 33 > Soccer 50 20 > 30 > Sprints 90 10 > Swimming 1.5km 10 20 > 70 > Tennis 70 20 > 10 > Volleyball 80 5 > 15 > > " Table adapted from Fox E. L. et al, The > Physiological Basis for > Exercise and Sport, 1993 " > > As you can see by the tables above, the > sports you mentioned > as being high intensity aerobic are for the most > part purely > anaerobic before the primary energy system used is > exhausted and then > moves on to the next available energy source. > > " Without endurance do you think a boxer would > be able to throw a > knock out punch in the 15th round after running > around the ring, > dancing and weaving for 45 minutes? " > > > If the primary energy used in a boxers > preparation for a fight > is aerobic, chances are that he wont even be able to > reach the 15th > round or throw any kind of punches with speed or > power. Just because 1 round lasts 180 seconds dos > not imply that the energy required is > aerobic. > For the sports that you mentioned, boxing, > tennis, soccer, > martial arts etc, it would be better to evaluate the > energy system > pathway from a more simplistic approach and break it > down to a " per > round, per set, per shift(hockey)per > play(football)per point(tennis) > view " ect.and from there evaluate the need of the > athlete and his > weakness. > Due to the old school mentality that still > exists in boxing, > conditioning outside the ring a 3:1 ratio is still > very predominant. > In my opinion, training them that way outside > the ring will do > very little to help them and will probably cause > injury from overuse. > In boxing, basketball, baseball, hockey, > tennis, soccer, martial > arts, they always explode with high energy output > followed by a state > of rest and " actively resting " (which for most well > conditioned > athletes is like a walk in the park) so on and so > forth until resting > for the sport given interval and back again. Boxing > 1 minute per > round, tennis has more frequent breaks per set and > per match and for > the most part energy output is very high and short > from a point > scored to the next. Baseball being purely (AAP) > alactic anaerobic > power, in competition(game time) > In my opinion, a few major key components in > all sports is > strength-endurance and the ability to recuperate > after a high energy > output (being able to perform at peak levels under > repetitive high > force output conditions) > > > > I hope this answers your question somewhat as > there is much more > we can discuss about this topic.EX:limit > strength,strength- > speed,speed strength. > > > Terry Mavroudis > Montreal,Canada Terry Lets take a look at each of the systems you describe. Firstly the ATP PCR systems. This system is utilized by all muscles fiber whether they be type I, type IIa or type IIb. It is the final step in the production of energy that allows the all fibers to contract. This system has enough stored energy to last from 5-15 seconds. An yes this is purely anaerobic because it does not require Oxygen to make the system go. This system is also called Alactic system since lactic acid is not a byproduct. The important question is what happens once this storage of this energy is depleted? If the ATP-PCR system is not restored to its original level the muscle can no longer contract. In order to replenish the ATP-PCR system you can use the glycolytic system. The glycolytic systems consists of two phases. The anaerobic phase and the aerobic phase. When glucose is fully metabolized to produce ATP at total of 42+ units of ATP are produced for every unit of glucose utilized. In the first phase (anaerobic) 6 units of ATP are produced along with 2 units of lactic acid. That is less than 15% of the energy potential energy in glucose is utilized during the anaerobic phase of the glycolytic system. The rest of the energy resides in the lactic acid byproduct. It is estimated that a well trained athlete may store as much as 400 grams of glycogen in all the muscles of the body (another 90+ is stored in the liver). That 400 grams of glycogen is capable of producing 1600 calories of energy that can be utilized by muscles. Now if less than 15% is utilized to produce ATP that means the maximum energy that can be produced using the anaerobic energy system is 240 calories. Now that is assuming that all the glycogen stored in the body are stored only in the muscles utilized in the particular sport. But that 400 grams is distributed to ALL of the muscles. “A muscle fiber’s rate of energy use during exercise can be 200 times greater than at rest. The ATP-PCR and glycolytic systems alone cannot supply all the needed energy for all out activity lasting more than 2 minutes, nor are they efficient for generating ATP for long duration activity.” (Physiology of Sport and Exercise and Costill 3rd edition pg. 125) What happens when you run out of glycogen. This situation is sports if called hitting the wall or bonking. Before bonking occurs we have to turn to the Oxidative system- also called the Aerobic system. This Oxidative system only takes place in mitochondria and specifically the Citric acid cycle also known as the Krebs cycle. The mitochondria are not present in Type IIb fibers which are purely anaerobic fibers. They are present howeve in abundance in the Type I fibers (slow oxidative) and the Type IIa fibers (which are also known as the fast oxidative glycolytic fibers -FOG). I will get back to the Type IIa fibers and how they become Oxidative and the type of training required develop these fibers. But first let us get back to the second phase of the glycolytic energy system. In the first phase 6 units of ATP were produced along with lactic acid. In the presence of Oxygen lactic acid is converted to Pyruvate. Pyruvate can now enter the the second phase of the glycolytic system. In this system the pyruvate is completely broken down and 37-39 units of ATP are produced. The Krebs cycle is also the final pathway for the metabolism of fat. So out of a total of a possible 43-45 units of ATP which can be produced from glucose more than 85% is produced in the oxidative system and less than 15% is produced anaerobically. For the moment lets get back to the Type IIb fibers. As stated above these fibers do not have mitochondria and therefore are incapable of utilizing the energy in lactic acid. So what happens to the lactic acid. Well it becomes lactate which is a salt and exits leaves the fiber and enters the blood stream. It can then be taken up by neighboring type IIa or typeI fibers and enter the mitochondria in these fibers and becomes pyruvate which is subsequently metabolized in the Krebs cycle. Or the lactate can proceed to other organs in the body and utilized for energy or enter the liver where it is utilized to make more glucose. To this point more than 85% of the energy produced from the utilization of glycogen is produced aerobically. We have not even discussed the contribution of the typeI fibers and fat. In a well trained athlete fat can be utilized up to an intensity of 75% or more of VO2 max. I would now like to discuss the role of type IIa fibers because these fibers are the key to success in high intensity sports activity. These fibers work both aerobically as well as anaerobically. The lactic acid that they produce during an anaerobic phase can then be converted to pyruvate and enter the krebs cycle once the Oxygen supply is restored to produce more ATP. These are the fibers which are recruited when the intensity of activity approaches 65-70% of VO2max and are the primary fibers recruited during activity which at 75-100% VO2max. “Endurance training has been shown to reduce the percentage of type IIb fibers while increasing the percentage of typeIIa fibers.” (Physiology of Sport and Exercise ( and Costill 3rd edition pg. 49) Not only are is the percentage of type IIa fibers increased with high intensity endurance training but the concentration of mitochondria are also increased in these fibers. Training at what is often referred to as the Lactate threshold (85-95%VO2max) enhances these fibers. High intensity interval training utilizes these fibers. This is high intensity but still AEROBIC. “Muscle fiber types in rats have changed in response to 15 weeks of high intensity treadmill training, resulting in an increase in type I and type IIa fibers and a decreased in type IIb fibers.” " Staron and coworkers found evidence of fiber-type transformation in women as a result of heavy resistance training. Following a 20-week heavy resistance training program for the lower extremity, the mean percentage of type IIb fibers decreased significantly, but the mean percentage of type IIa fibers increased. (Staron et al European Journal of Applied Physiology) " " The reduction of type IIb fibers and the increase in type IIa fibers with resistance training has been consistently reported in a number of subsequent studies. ( and Costill 3rd edition pg. 99) " If you examine the tables cited as to energy systems, much of what you have attributed to anaerobic work is really high intensity aerobic work performed by the type IIa fibers. There is not enough glycogen stored in the muscles to sustain more than 10 minutes of high intensity anaerobic work. Ralph Giarnella MD Southington, CT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 A few comments regarding Dr. Giarnella's response to Terry and on the overall discussion on this training topic. First of all, Dr. Giarnella you did a great job of supporting your comments by citing Wilmore & Costill's 3rd edition, but where is it stated that there are " no " mitochondria in Type IIb fibers? You make this comment twice yet in Wilmore & Costill, as well as in McCardle, Katch & Katch, and Marieb and others, Type IIb fibers are stated as having few or low numbers of mitochondria and a " low " oxidative capacity, not " none " (pg 45-46). This fact is further supported by another study you mention, but failed to provide all the information. The 15 week study involving rats is also stated as showing a transition of IIb fibers to IIa. This could not happen if mitochondria were not present in the Type IIb fibers. Dr Giarnella, I'm also confused at what you were trying to get at overall in relationship to the original discussion on training. Or did you just feel Terry needed a physiology course? Furthermore, by presenting the Staron study, one might conclude that Type IIb fibers aren't necessary and neither is it necessary to train anaerobically? The studies you cited were from a section on whether or not fiber types can be altered through training. The section was not written to support methods of training for optimal performance. (On a side note, my review of research in 1993 regarding women and strength training showed that most methods were not the same as utilized by men for improvements in strength and power. I don't have access to the Staron study now, but it was published in 1990 and so I'd question it's use of actual " heavy " . So, if I remember correctly now, the original question was relative to a gentleman wishing to run a marathon, and later compete in Martial Arts - fortunately with a couple of months in between. With the marathon being first (if I remember correctly), cardiorespiratory endurance will be enhanced as a result. According to Wilmore & Costill, 3rd edition (pg 298), " regardless of the sport or activity, fatigue represents a major deterrent to optimal performance...all athletes can benefit from maximizing their endurance. " Now, a marathon constitutes a time frame well beyond what would be needed and it should be kept in mind that gains in muscular strength and power are less when strength training is combined with endurance training, but aerobic capacity with endurance training is not attenuated by including a resistance training program. So, the concern will be if overall strength and power is affected long term. I believe if you were at a peak prior to training for the run, you should be able to retain a large majority of that strength and power and then replace any levels lost in the couple of months prior to the event. Because of the time frame between the marathon and m.a. competition, it may not have great effects, but that is what we do not know! " Very little research data are available concerning multisport training...it is important to determine how best to partition the avaliable training time to optimize performance in each sport. " (Wilmore & Costill pg 298) Lastly, The energy proportion graph from , Fahey, and White (1996)in Exercise Physiology: Human Bioenergetics and Its Applications seems to be a little more clear on aerobic and anaerobic without confusing one with which fuels are being used: Duration %Anaerobic %Aerobic 1-3 sec. 100 0 10 sec. 90 10 30 sec. 80 20 60 sec. 70 30 2 min. 60 40 4 min. 35 65 10 min. 15 85 30 min 5 95 1 hour 2 98 Just as with the controversy regarding functional training vs. traditional strength training - both aerobic and anaerobic training are necessary but more research is needed to better outline appropriate training parameters. The winner of a marathon between two runners with the same V02max will be the runner with the greater anaerobic capacity just as the baseball player with the higher aerobic capacity will better survive a double header than the player who does not train aerobically. But, because aerobic training affects strength and power, we have to determine an optimal level of training. One suggestion is to train to develop a peak VO2max prior to beginning to develop strength and power and then maintain that level by training at least 3x a week at 70% VO2max (Wilmore & Costill pg. 398). MS, ATC, CSCS Spanaway, WA > > > > Duration Classification Energy Supplied > > By > > 1 to 4 seconds Anaerobic ATP (in muscles) > > 4 to 20 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC > > 20 to 45 seconds Anaerobic ATP + PC + Muscle > > glycogen > > 45 to 120 seconds Anaerobic, Lactic Muscle > > glycogen > > 120 to 240 seconds Aerobic + Anaerobic Muscle > > glycogen + lactic > > 240 to 600 seconds Aerobic Muscle glycogen + > > fatty acids > > > > Energy System recruitment > > > > Although all energy systems basically turn on at the > > same time the > > recruitment of an alternative system occurs when the > > current energy > > system is almost depleted. > > > > The following table provides an approximation of the > > percentage > > contribution of the energy pathways in certain > > sports. (Fox et al > > 1993) > > > > Sport ATP-PC and LA LA-O2 > > O2(aerobic) > > Basketball 60 20 > > 20 > > Fencing 90 10 > > Field events 90 10 > > Golf swing 95 5 > > Gymnastics 80 15 > > 5 > > Hockey 50 20 30 > > Distance running 10 20 > > 70 > > Rowing 20 30 > > 50 > > Skiing 33 33 > > 33 > > Soccer 50 20 > > 30 > > Sprints 90 10 > > Swimming 1.5km 10 20 > > 70 > > Tennis 70 20 > > 10 > > Volleyball 80 5 > > 15 > > > > " Table adapted from Fox E. L. et al, The > > Physiological Basis for > > Exercise and Sport, 1993 " > > > > As you can see by the tables above, the > > sports you mentioned > > as being high intensity aerobic are for the most > > part purely > > anaerobic before the primary energy system used is > > exhausted and then > > moves on to the next available energy source. > > > > " Without endurance do you think a boxer would > > be able to throw a > > knock out punch in the 15th round after running > > around the ring, > > dancing and weaving for 45 minutes? " > > > > > > If the primary energy used in a boxers > > preparation for a fight > > is aerobic, chances are that he wont even be able to > > reach the 15th > > round or throw any kind of punches with speed or > > power. Just because 1 round lasts 180 seconds dos > > not imply that the energy required is > > aerobic. > > For the sports that you mentioned, boxing, > > tennis, soccer, > > martial arts etc, it would be better to evaluate the > > energy system > > pathway from a more simplistic approach and break it > > down to a " per > > round, per set, per shift(hockey)per > > play(football)per point(tennis) > > view " ect.and from there evaluate the need of the > > athlete and his > > weakness. > > Due to the old school mentality that still > > exists in boxing, > > conditioning outside the ring a 3:1 ratio is still > > very predominant. > > In my opinion, training them that way outside > > the ring will do > > very little to help them and will probably cause > > injury from overuse. > > In boxing, basketball, baseball, hockey, > > tennis, soccer, martial > > arts, they always explode with high energy output > > followed by a state > > of rest and " actively resting " (which for most well > > conditioned > > athletes is like a walk in the park) so on and so > > forth until resting > > for the sport given interval and back again. Boxing > > 1 minute per > > round, tennis has more frequent breaks per set and > > per match and for > > the most part energy output is very high and short > > from a point > > scored to the next. Baseball being purely (AAP) > > alactic anaerobic > > power, in competition(game time) > > In my opinion, a few major key components in > > all sports is > > strength-endurance and the ability to recuperate > > after a high energy > > output (being able to perform at peak levels under > > repetitive high > > force output conditions) > > > > > > > > I hope this answers your question somewhat as > > there is much more > > we can discuss about this topic.EX:limit > > strength,strength- > > speed,speed strength. > > > > > > Terry Mavroudis > > Montreal,Canada > > Terry > Lets take a look at each of the systems you describe. > > Firstly the ATP PCR systems. This system is utilized > by all muscles fiber whether they be type I, type IIa > or type IIb. It is the final step in the production > of energy that allows the all fibers to contract. > > This system has enough stored energy to last from > 5-15 seconds. An yes this is purely anaerobic because > it does not require Oxygen to make the system go. > This system is also called Alactic system since lactic > acid is not a byproduct. > > The important question is what happens once this > storage of this energy is depleted? If the ATP-PCR > system is not restored to its original level the > muscle can no longer contract. > > In order to replenish the ATP-PCR system you can use > the glycolytic system. The glycolytic systems > consists of two phases. The anaerobic phase and the > aerobic phase. > > When glucose is fully metabolized to produce ATP at > total of 42+ units of ATP are produced for every unit > of glucose utilized. > > In the first phase (anaerobic) 6 units of ATP are > produced along with 2 units of lactic acid. That is > less than 15% of the energy potential energy in > glucose is utilized during the anaerobic phase of the > glycolytic system. The rest of the energy resides in > the lactic acid byproduct. > > It is estimated that a well trained athlete may store > as much as 400 grams of glycogen in all the muscles of > the body (another 90+ is stored in the liver). That > 400 grams of glycogen is capable of producing 1600 > calories of energy that can be utilized by muscles. > Now if less than 15% is utilized to produce ATP that > means the maximum energy that can be produced using > the anaerobic energy system is 240 calories. Now that > is assuming that all the glycogen stored in the body > are stored only in the muscles utilized in the > particular sport. But that 400 grams is distributed > to ALL of the muscles. > > " A muscle fiber's rate of energy use during exercise > can be 200 times greater than at rest. The ATP-PCR > and glycolytic systems alone cannot supply all the > needed energy for all out activity lasting more than 2 > minutes, nor are they efficient for generating ATP for > long duration activity. " (Physiology of Sport and > Exercise and Costill 3rd edition pg. 125) > > What happens when you run out of glycogen. This > situation is sports if called hitting the wall or > bonking. > > Before bonking occurs we have to turn to the Oxidative > system- also called the Aerobic system. This > Oxidative system only takes place in mitochondria and > specifically the Citric acid cycle also known as the > Krebs cycle. > > The mitochondria are not present in Type IIb fibers > which are purely anaerobic fibers. They are present > howeve in abundance in the Type I fibers (slow > oxidative) and the Type IIa fibers (which are also > known as the fast oxidative glycolytic fibers -FOG). > > I will get back to the Type IIa fibers and how they > become Oxidative and the type of training required > develop these fibers. > > But first let us get back to the second phase of the > glycolytic energy system. In the first phase 6 units > of ATP were produced along with lactic acid. In the > presence of Oxygen lactic acid is converted to > Pyruvate. Pyruvate can now enter the the second phase > of the glycolytic system. In this system the pyruvate > is completely broken down and 37-39 units of ATP are > produced. The Krebs cycle is also the final pathway > for the metabolism of fat. > > So out of a total of a possible 43-45 units of ATP > which can be produced from glucose more than 85% is > produced in the oxidative system and less than 15% is > produced anaerobically. > > For the moment lets get back to the Type IIb fibers. > As stated above these fibers do not have mitochondria > and therefore are incapable of utilizing the energy in > lactic acid. So what happens to the lactic acid. > Well it becomes lactate which is a salt and exits > leaves the fiber and enters the blood stream. It can > then be taken up by neighboring type IIa or typeI > fibers and enter the mitochondria in these fibers and > becomes pyruvate which is subsequently metabolized in > the Krebs cycle. Or the lactate can proceed to other > organs in the body and utilized for energy or enter > the liver where it is utilized to make more glucose. > > To this point more than 85% of the energy produced > from the utilization of glycogen is produced > aerobically. We have not even discussed the > contribution of the typeI fibers and fat. In a well > trained athlete fat can be utilized up to an intensity > of 75% or more of VO2 max. > > I would now like to discuss the role of type IIa > fibers because these fibers are the key to success in > high intensity sports activity. > > These fibers work both aerobically as well as > anaerobically. The lactic acid that they produce > during an anaerobic phase can then be converted to > pyruvate and enter the krebs cycle once the Oxygen > supply is restored to produce more ATP. > > These are the fibers which are recruited when the > intensity of activity approaches 65-70% of VO2max and > are the primary fibers recruited during activity which > at 75-100% VO2max. > > " Endurance training has been shown to reduce the > percentage of type IIb fibers while increasing the > percentage of typeIIa fibers. " (Physiology of Sport > and Exercise ( and Costill 3rd edition pg. 49) > Not only are is the percentage of type IIa fibers > increased with high intensity endurance training but > the concentration of mitochondria are also increased > in these fibers. > > Training at what is often referred to as the Lactate > threshold (85-95%VO2max) enhances these fibers. High > intensity interval training utilizes these fibers. > This is high intensity but still AEROBIC. > > " Muscle fiber types in rats have changed in response > to 15 weeks of high intensity treadmill training, > resulting in an increase in type I and type IIa fibers > and a decreased in type IIb fibers. " > > " Staron and coworkers found evidence of fiber-type > transformation in women as a result of heavy > resistance training. Following a 20-week heavy > resistance training program for the lower extremity, > the mean percentage of type IIb fibers decreased > significantly, but the mean percentage of type IIa > fibers increased. (Staron et al European Journal of > Applied Physiology) " > > " The reduction of type IIb fibers and the increase in > type IIa fibers with resistance training has been > consistently reported in a number of subsequent > studies. > ( and Costill 3rd edition pg. 99) " > > If you examine the tables cited as to energy systems, > much of what you have attributed to anaerobic work is > really high intensity aerobic work performed by the > type IIa fibers. > > There is not enough glycogen stored in the muscles to > sustain more than 10 minutes of high intensity > anaerobic work. > > Ralph Giarnella MD > Southington, CT > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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