Re: SinoFresh ingredients... H202, bleach, etc.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dan and all,

Yes, I looked up all the ingredients too, and other than a couple of

hysterical sounding, non-verified warnings, I think the main

ingredient, cetylpyridinium chloride, seems like a fairly safe and

fairly effective antimicrobial, especially considering some of the

abx I've taken. It also has some inactive ingredients like

eucalyyptus oil, peppermint oil, spearmint oil and wintergreen oil.

I think these are primarily to create a pleasant taste smell, and/or

to soothe the mucous membranes. When reading about its antiseptic

properties, I found it was compared very positively to things like

bleaching powder, H202, etc.

My friend told me that when she started using it, her sinuses

smelled like rotting flesh. She's one of the few people I know who

actually went into an almost full remission using a variation on the

Garth Nicholson protocol (added Augmentin to the Doxycycline), but

with her dental situation not being resolved, she cannot achieve

complete remission permanently. I was impressed when she said the

SinoFresh accomplished what other nasal antibacterials could not.

So far, for me, I really think the Sino Fresh is working too. The

salty taste is definitely lessening, and my mucous seems to be much

thinner. I'm also getting some drainage from my nostrils, which

usually doesn't happen. It's usually just in the form of thick goo

going down the back of my throat. This is why it SEEMED that I never

had sinus problems, until CT scans showed something very different.

Anyway, it's interesting. The first day I used the spray, Sunday, it

felt really good, but I'm now noticing that my throat/sinuses burn

for a while after spraying, so I think I've definitely got some

irritation going on.

This is going to sound whacky, but after trying everything else,

like i.v. Colloidal silver, and i.v. H202 (hydrogen peroxide) along

with more normal means of administration (like in my nasal/dental

rinses), and feeling they were only marginally helpful, I'm going to

start nebulizing, hydro-pulsing (nasal irrigation) and hydro-

flossing with tiny amounts of bleach. I now know two people who've

nebulized bleach and are very positive that it's helped. I am NOT

recommending this to anyone else, but I know that bleach is about

the best antimicrobial in existence. Unfortunatley, with my current

sinus irritation, I think I'll wait a bit before putting it into my

sinuses, but in the meantime, I'm going to add a couple of drops to

my hydrofloss, and clean my mouth/teeth with it.

One thing I think people are really overlooking in their attempts to

define our organisms as being strictly intracellular, etc., is that

these organisms, in their many forms, can take up residence in

almost any environment, not just inside the cell, and become

impervious to almost all attempts at eradication. Here's an example.

As a bio-physical chemist, my husband was naturally attracted to

brewing beer at home. He made some amazingly good brews. But he also

had to deal with bacterial contamination that could give the brew an

off-taste. He started out using plastic vats for brewing, but found

that even with sterilization, the bacteria could stay embedded in

the plastic, and the next batch would be contaminated. If he got

brand new vats, the brew would be fine. But he couldn't reuse them

for long. This means that the bacteria could embed itself in the

plastic and despite sterilization with both boiling water and

bleach, the bacteria could survive to ruin another batch. He

switched his brew making efforts to glass vats, as it's less

permeable than the plastic, and the contamination was no longer a

problem.

My point is, bugs know how to protect themselves, and how to

penetrate almost everything. So places like our sinuses are a piece

of cake. And if there's an entryway into bone, they love it, as

there's so little blood flow and oxygen to the region, so they have

a nice protected home, where they can produce their toxins, making

us feel lousy.

My husband (and Tony) says bleach is the only thing that can really

kill most bugs, it's what they use to sterilize scientific equipment

with. But even so, it can still be ineffective against bugs hiding

in plastic.

Fortunatley, my sinuses aren't as rigid and impermeable as plastic,

so at this point, a couple of drops of bleach in my nebulizer or

hydroflosser seems like a risk worth taking (especially after

knowing a couple people who've done it with no bad effects). I also

know that there are a few doctors who use miniscule amounts of a

specially developed bleach solution and administer it i.v. Even

though it's not illegal, it's unconventional and hard to get, so

they're mostly doing it on the Q.T. or in Mexico. But again, I'm not

suggesting anyone else try this. I'll just report how it goes for me.

But back to Sino Fresh. So far I'm liking it a lot. It's like when I

started the Benicar and immediately knew it was affecting my

symptoms of inflammation. I feel the same way about the Sino Fresh.

It's definitely doing something. The lessening of the salty taste

and mucous is a big change for me. My energy is also improving a

bit, but whether this is coincidental, or actually the result of

lessening the infection, I don't know.

penny

p.s. It's really weird that I posted about Sino Fresh very early

Sunday morning, even went to a 24 hour pharmacy to get some, and my

post apparently didn't show up until much, much later.

[Guest guest]

Penny,

I'd be really careful with bleach. It is very toxic.

I used to use bleach all the time to clean my home and

disinfect my laundry.I even had some in a stray bottle

to clean cupboards but got into terrible respitory

distress from that. I finally came to realize that I

was extremely sensitive to bleach and even sleeping on

sheet that had been bleached would give me flu like

symptoms. Now I don't use it at all. I miss it as a

cleaner but don't miss the illness I suffered from it.

Many of us with CFS have chemical sensitivities so

spraying even a minute amount of bleach of your nose

could be a disaster. Those of us with CFS have to

weigh the benefits of antibiodics/antimicrobal

protection with the risks of chemical injury.

Marie

--- penny <pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Dan and all,

>

> Yes, I looked up all the ingredients too, and other

> than a couple of

> hysterical sounding, non-verified warnings, I think

> the main

> ingredient, cetylpyridinium chloride, seems like a

> fairly safe and

> fairly effective antimicrobial, especially

> considering some of the

> abx I've taken. It also has some inactive

> ingredients like

> eucalyyptus oil, peppermint oil, spearmint oil and

> wintergreen oil.

> I think these are primarily to create a pleasant

> taste smell, and/or

> to soothe the mucous membranes. When reading about

> its antiseptic

> properties, I found it was compared very positively

> to things like

> bleaching powder, H202, etc.

>

> My friend told me that when she started using it,

> her sinuses

> smelled like rotting flesh. She's one of the few

> people I know who

> actually went into an almost full remission using a

> variation on the

> Garth Nicholson protocol (added Augmentin to the

> Doxycycline), but

> with her dental situation not being resolved, she

> cannot achieve

> complete remission permanently. I was impressed when

> she said the

> SinoFresh accomplished what other nasal

> antibacterials could not.

>

> So far, for me, I really think the Sino Fresh is

> working too. The

> salty taste is definitely lessening, and my mucous

> seems to be much

> thinner. I'm also getting some drainage from my

> nostrils, which

> usually doesn't happen. It's usually just in the

> form of thick goo

> going down the back of my throat. This is why it

> SEEMED that I never

> had sinus problems, until CT scans showed something

> very different.

>

> Anyway, it's interesting. The first day I used the

> spray, Sunday, it

> felt really good, but I'm now noticing that my

> throat/sinuses burn

> for a while after spraying, so I think I've

> definitely got some

> irritation going on.

>

> This is going to sound whacky, but after trying

> everything else,

> like i.v. Colloidal silver, and i.v. H202 (hydrogen

> peroxide) along

> with more normal means of administration (like in my

> nasal/dental

> rinses), and feeling they were only marginally

> helpful, I'm going to

> start nebulizing, hydro-pulsing (nasal irrigation)

> and hydro-

> flossing with tiny amounts of bleach. I now know two

> people who've

> nebulized bleach and are very positive that it's

> helped. I am NOT

> recommending this to anyone else, but I know that

> bleach is about

> the best antimicrobial in existence. Unfortunatley,

> with my current

> sinus irritation, I think I'll wait a bit before

> putting it into my

> sinuses, but in the meantime, I'm going to add a

> couple of drops to

> my hydrofloss, and clean my mouth/teeth with it.

>

> One thing I think people are really overlooking in

> their attempts to

> define our organisms as being strictly

> intracellular, etc., is that

> these organisms, in their many forms, can take up

> residence in

> almost any environment, not just inside the cell,

> and become

> impervious to almost all attempts at eradication.

> Here's an example.

> As a bio-physical chemist, my husband was naturally

> attracted to

> brewing beer at home. He made some amazingly good

> brews. But he also

> had to deal with bacterial contamination that could

> give the brew an

> off-taste. He started out using plastic vats for

> brewing, but found

> that even with sterilization, the bacteria could

> stay embedded in

> the plastic, and the next batch would be

> contaminated. If he got

> brand new vats, the brew would be fine. But he

> couldn't reuse them

> for long. This means that the bacteria could embed

> itself in the

> plastic and despite sterilization with both boiling

> water and

> bleach, the bacteria could survive to ruin another

> batch. He

> switched his brew making efforts to glass vats, as

> it's less

> permeable than the plastic, and the contamination

> was no longer a

> problem.

>

> My point is, bugs know how to protect themselves,

> and how to

> penetrate almost everything. So places like our

> sinuses are a piece

> of cake. And if there's an entryway into bone, they

> love it, as

> there's so little blood flow and oxygen to the

> region, so they have

> a nice protected home, where they can produce their

> toxins, making

> us feel lousy.

>

> My husband (and Tony) says bleach is the only thing

> that can really

> kill most bugs, it's what they use to sterilize

> scientific equipment

> with. But even so, it can still be ineffective

> against bugs hiding

> in plastic.

>

> Fortunatley, my sinuses aren't as rigid and

> impermeable as plastic,

> so at this point, a couple of drops of bleach in my

> nebulizer or

> hydroflosser seems like a risk worth taking

> (especially after

> knowing a couple people who've done it with no bad

> effects). I also

> know that there are a few doctors who use miniscule

> amounts of a

> specially developed bleach solution and administer

> it i.v. Even

> though it's not illegal, it's unconventional and

> hard to get, so

> they're mostly doing it on the Q.T. or in Mexico.

> But again, I'm not

> suggesting anyone else try this. I'll just report

> how it goes for me.

>

> But back to Sino Fresh. So far I'm liking it a lot.

> It's like when I

> started the Benicar and immediately knew it was

> affecting my

> symptoms of inflammation. I feel the same way about

> the Sino Fresh.

> It's definitely doing something. The lessening of

> the salty taste

> and mucous is a big change for me. My energy is also

> improving a

> bit, but whether this is coincidental, or actually

> the result of

> lessening the infection, I don't know.

>

> penny

>

> p.s. It's really weird that I posted about Sino

> Fresh very early

> Sunday morning, even went to a 24 hour pharmacy to

> get some, and my

> post apparently didn't show up until much, much

> later.

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

http://birthday./netrospective/

[Guest guest]

Penny,

How about using plain old salt in sterile water. Bugs

hate salt.

Marie

--- penny <pennyhoule@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Dan and all,

>

> Yes, I looked up all the ingredients too, and other

> than a couple of

> hysterical sounding, non-verified warnings, I think

> the main

> ingredient, cetylpyridinium chloride, seems like a

> fairly safe and

> fairly effective antimicrobial, especially

> considering some of the

> abx I've taken. It also has some inactive

> ingredients like

> eucalyyptus oil, peppermint oil, spearmint oil and

> wintergreen oil.

> I think these are primarily to create a pleasant

> taste smell, and/or

> to soothe the mucous membranes. When reading about

> its antiseptic

> properties, I found it was compared very positively

> to things like

> bleaching powder, H202, etc.

>

> My friend told me that when she started using it,

> her sinuses

> smelled like rotting flesh. She's one of the few

> people I know who

> actually went into an almost full remission using a

> variation on the

> Garth Nicholson protocol (added Augmentin to the

> Doxycycline), but

> with her dental situation not being resolved, she

> cannot achieve

> complete remission permanently. I was impressed when

> she said the

> SinoFresh accomplished what other nasal

> antibacterials could not.

>

> So far, for me, I really think the Sino Fresh is

> working too. The

> salty taste is definitely lessening, and my mucous

> seems to be much

> thinner. I'm also getting some drainage from my

> nostrils, which

> usually doesn't happen. It's usually just in the

> form of thick goo

> going down the back of my throat. This is why it

> SEEMED that I never

> had sinus problems, until CT scans showed something

> very different.

>

> Anyway, it's interesting. The first day I used the

> spray, Sunday, it

> felt really good, but I'm now noticing that my

> throat/sinuses burn

> for a while after spraying, so I think I've

> definitely got some

> irritation going on.

>

> This is going to sound whacky, but after trying

> everything else,

> like i.v. Colloidal silver, and i.v. H202 (hydrogen

> peroxide) along

> with more normal means of administration (like in my

> nasal/dental

> rinses), and feeling they were only marginally

> helpful, I'm going to

> start nebulizing, hydro-pulsing (nasal irrigation)

> and hydro-

> flossing with tiny amounts of bleach. I now know two

> people who've

> nebulized bleach and are very positive that it's

> helped. I am NOT

> recommending this to anyone else, but I know that

> bleach is about

> the best antimicrobial in existence. Unfortunatley,

> with my current

> sinus irritation, I think I'll wait a bit before

> putting it into my

> sinuses, but in the meantime, I'm going to add a

> couple of drops to

> my hydrofloss, and clean my mouth/teeth with it.

>

> One thing I think people are really overlooking in

> their attempts to

> define our organisms as being strictly

> intracellular, etc., is that

> these organisms, in their many forms, can take up

> residence in

> almost any environment, not just inside the cell,

> and become

> impervious to almost all attempts at eradication.

> Here's an example.

> As a bio-physical chemist, my husband was naturally

> attracted to

> brewing beer at home. He made some amazingly good

> brews. But he also

> had to deal with bacterial contamination that could

> give the brew an

> off-taste. He started out using plastic vats for

> brewing, but found

> that even with sterilization, the bacteria could

> stay embedded in

> the plastic, and the next batch would be

> contaminated. If he got

> brand new vats, the brew would be fine. But he

> couldn't reuse them

> for long. This means that the bacteria could embed

> itself in the

> plastic and despite sterilization with both boiling

> water and

> bleach, the bacteria could survive to ruin another

> batch. He

> switched his brew making efforts to glass vats, as

> it's less

> permeable than the plastic, and the contamination

> was no longer a

> problem.

>

> My point is, bugs know how to protect themselves,

> and how to

> penetrate almost everything. So places like our

> sinuses are a piece

> of cake. And if there's an entryway into bone, they

> love it, as

> there's so little blood flow and oxygen to the

> region, so they have

> a nice protected home, where they can produce their

> toxins, making

> us feel lousy.

>

> My husband (and Tony) says bleach is the only thing

> that can really

> kill most bugs, it's what they use to sterilize

> scientific equipment

> with. But even so, it can still be ineffective

> against bugs hiding

> in plastic.

>

> Fortunatley, my sinuses aren't as rigid and

> impermeable as plastic,

> so at this point, a couple of drops of bleach in my

> nebulizer or

> hydroflosser seems like a risk worth taking

> (especially after

> knowing a couple people who've done it with no bad

> effects). I also

> know that there are a few doctors who use miniscule

> amounts of a

> specially developed bleach solution and administer

> it i.v. Even

> though it's not illegal, it's unconventional and

> hard to get, so

> they're mostly doing it on the Q.T. or in Mexico.

> But again, I'm not

> suggesting anyone else try this. I'll just report

> how it goes for me.

>

> But back to Sino Fresh. So far I'm liking it a lot.

> It's like when I

> started the Benicar and immediately knew it was

> affecting my

> symptoms of inflammation. I feel the same way about

> the Sino Fresh.

> It's definitely doing something. The lessening of

> the salty taste

> and mucous is a big change for me. My energy is also

> improving a

> bit, but whether this is coincidental, or actually

> the result of

> lessening the infection, I don't know.

>

> penny

>

> p.s. It's really weird that I posted about Sino

> Fresh very early

> Sunday morning, even went to a 24 hour pharmacy to

> get some, and my

> post apparently didn't show up until much, much

> later.

>

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________

Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

http://birthday./netrospective/

[Guest guest]

Well, the bleach (or any antimicrobial) can possibly kill some

cells, but the way I'm going, the infection's going to kill me

anyway. It's already destroying my body and my body's ability to

function properly.

I've weighed this risk for a long time before deciding to try it. I

know it's unconventional and crazy sounding to many. Each person has

to do what works for them. Fortunately, my chemical sensitivies are

not too much of an issue for me yet. I did my first oral bleach

rinse this a.m., and honestly felt euphoric afterwards. No kidding.

I could breath really well, my mouth felt clean. The bad taste was

gone. I'm going to keep doing it until I have reason not to, but at

the moment I'm feeling quite excited. I would never recommend it for

anyone else, just reporting my experience. I have thought long and

hard about it. Even met with doctors at a clinic that administer the

bleach solution i.v. (VERY dilute, special medical formula).

Unfortunately, I couldn't afford the treatments themselves, or the

energy it took to travel where they'd be administered. Remember, I'm

talking about a couple of drops of bleach in a rinse, and I'm not

swallowing it. I'm applying it to specific areas I know are

infected. Also, I've heard that the much more commonly used Hydrogen

Peroxide (H202) can actually be much more damaging to the tissue

which in turn gives the bacteria an in. I do know quite a few people

who've had success with long term use of H202, but it can be harsh,

and I know for a fact, after rinsing with it and doing it i.v. that

it's not strong enough for my bugs at the rate I could handle taking

it. I'm not up for long term H202 i.v. treatments as it was much too

hard on my veins.

No one else should do this, but I'll report how it continues to go

for me. Like I said before, I'm doing this because I already know

someone who nebulized bleach for some time, and found it brilliant,

along with the fact that there are actually doctors out there who

are doing i.v. bleach, even though they're hard to locate.

One reputable clinic in Mexico was known for it, but they have since

switched to stem cell injections, which they're receiving a fortune

for every treatment.

penny

>

> >

> > Hi Dan and all,

> >

> > Yes, I looked up all the ingredients too, and other

> > than a couple of

> > hysterical sounding, non-verified warnings, I think

> > the main

> > ingredient, cetylpyridinium chloride, seems like a

> > fairly safe and

> > fairly effective antimicrobial, especially

> > considering some of the

> > abx I've taken. It also has some inactive

> > ingredients like

> > eucalyyptus oil, peppermint oil, spearmint oil and

> > wintergreen oil.

> > I think these are primarily to create a pleasant

> > taste smell, and/or

> > to soothe the mucous membranes. When reading about

> > its antiseptic

> > properties, I found it was compared very positively

> > to things like

> > bleaching powder, H202, etc.

> >

> > My friend told me that when she started using it,

> > her sinuses

> > smelled like rotting flesh. She's one of the few

> > people I know who

> > actually went into an almost full remission using a

> > variation on the

> > Garth Nicholson protocol (added Augmentin to the

> > Doxycycline), but

> > with her dental situation not being resolved, she

> > cannot achieve

> > complete remission permanently. I was impressed when

> > she said the

> > SinoFresh accomplished what other nasal

> > antibacterials could not.

> >

> > So far, for me, I really think the Sino Fresh is

> > working too. The

> > salty taste is definitely lessening, and my mucous

> > seems to be much

> > thinner. I'm also getting some drainage from my

> > nostrils, which

> > usually doesn't happen. It's usually just in the

> > form of thick goo

> > going down the back of my throat. This is why it

> > SEEMED that I never

> > had sinus problems, until CT scans showed something

> > very different.

> >

> > Anyway, it's interesting. The first day I used the

> > spray, Sunday, it

> > felt really good, but I'm now noticing that my

> > throat/sinuses burn

> > for a while after spraying, so I think I've

> > definitely got some

> > irritation going on.

> >

> > This is going to sound whacky, but after trying

> > everything else,

> > like i.v. Colloidal silver, and i.v. H202 (hydrogen

> > peroxide) along

> > with more normal means of administration (like in my

> > nasal/dental

> > rinses), and feeling they were only marginally

> > helpful, I'm going to

> > start nebulizing, hydro-pulsing (nasal irrigation)

> > and hydro-

> > flossing with tiny amounts of bleach. I now know two

> > people who've

> > nebulized bleach and are very positive that it's

> > helped. I am NOT

> > recommending this to anyone else, but I know that

> > bleach is about

> > the best antimicrobial in existence. Unfortunatley,

> > with my current

> > sinus irritation, I think I'll wait a bit before

> > putting it into my

> > sinuses, but in the meantime, I'm going to add a

> > couple of drops to

> > my hydrofloss, and clean my mouth/teeth with it.

> >

> > One thing I think people are really overlooking in

> > their attempts to

> > define our organisms as being strictly

> > intracellular, etc., is that

> > these organisms, in their many forms, can take up

> > residence in

> > almost any environment, not just inside the cell,

> > and become

> > impervious to almost all attempts at eradication.

> > Here's an example.

> > As a bio-physical chemist, my husband was naturally

> > attracted to

> > brewing beer at home. He made some amazingly good

> > brews. But he also

> > had to deal with bacterial contamination that could

> > give the brew an

> > off-taste. He started out using plastic vats for

> > brewing, but found

> > that even with sterilization, the bacteria could

> > stay embedded in

> > the plastic, and the next batch would be

> > contaminated. If he got

> > brand new vats, the brew would be fine. But he

> > couldn't reuse them

> > for long. This means that the bacteria could embed

> > itself in the

> > plastic and despite sterilization with both boiling

> > water and

> > bleach, the bacteria could survive to ruin another

> > batch. He

> > switched his brew making efforts to glass vats, as

> > it's less

> > permeable than the plastic, and the contamination

> > was no longer a

> > problem.

> >

> > My point is, bugs know how to protect themselves,

> > and how to

> > penetrate almost everything. So places like our

> > sinuses are a piece

> > of cake. And if there's an entryway into bone, they

> > love it, as

> > there's so little blood flow and oxygen to the

> > region, so they have

> > a nice protected home, where they can produce their

> > toxins, making

> > us feel lousy.

> >

> > My husband (and Tony) says bleach is the only thing

> > that can really

> > kill most bugs, it's what they use to sterilize

> > scientific equipment

> > with. But even so, it can still be ineffective

> > against bugs hiding

> > in plastic.

> >

> > Fortunatley, my sinuses aren't as rigid and

> > impermeable as plastic,

> > so at this point, a couple of drops of bleach in my

> > nebulizer or

> > hydroflosser seems like a risk worth taking

> > (especially after

> > knowing a couple people who've done it with no bad

> > effects). I also

> > know that there are a few doctors who use miniscule

> > amounts of a

> > specially developed bleach solution and administer

> > it i.v. Even

> > though it's not illegal, it's unconventional and

> > hard to get, so

> > they're mostly doing it on the Q.T. or in Mexico.

> > But again, I'm not

> > suggesting anyone else try this. I'll just report

> > how it goes for me.

> >

> > But back to Sino Fresh. So far I'm liking it a lot.

> > It's like when I

> > started the Benicar and immediately knew it was

> > affecting my

> > symptoms of inflammation. I feel the same way about

> > the Sino Fresh.

> > It's definitely doing something. The lessening of

> > the salty taste

> > and mucous is a big change for me. My energy is also

> > improving a

> > bit, but whether this is coincidental, or actually

> > the result of

> > lessening the infection, I don't know.

> >

> > penny

> >

> > p.s. It's really weird that I posted about Sino

> > Fresh very early

> > Sunday morning, even went to a 24 hour pharmacy to

> > get some, and my

> > post apparently didn't show up until much, much

> > later.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

> Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

> http://birthday./netrospective/

[Guest guest]

Yeah, salt's the base.

penny

>

> >

> > Hi Dan and all,

> >

> > Yes, I looked up all the ingredients too, and other

> > than a couple of

> > hysterical sounding, non-verified warnings, I think

> > the main

> > ingredient, cetylpyridinium chloride, seems like a

> > fairly safe and

> > fairly effective antimicrobial, especially

> > considering some of the

> > abx I've taken. It also has some inactive

> > ingredients like

> > eucalyyptus oil, peppermint oil, spearmint oil and

> > wintergreen oil.

> > I think these are primarily to create a pleasant

> > taste smell, and/or

> > to soothe the mucous membranes. When reading about

> > its antiseptic

> > properties, I found it was compared very positively

> > to things like

> > bleaching powder, H202, etc.

> >

> > My friend told me that when she started using it,

> > her sinuses

> > smelled like rotting flesh. She's one of the few

> > people I know who

> > actually went into an almost full remission using a

> > variation on the

> > Garth Nicholson protocol (added Augmentin to the

> > Doxycycline), but

> > with her dental situation not being resolved, she

> > cannot achieve

> > complete remission permanently. I was impressed when

> > she said the

> > SinoFresh accomplished what other nasal

> > antibacterials could not.

> >

> > So far, for me, I really think the Sino Fresh is

> > working too. The

> > salty taste is definitely lessening, and my mucous

> > seems to be much

> > thinner. I'm also getting some drainage from my

> > nostrils, which

> > usually doesn't happen. It's usually just in the

> > form of thick goo

> > going down the back of my throat. This is why it

> > SEEMED that I never

> > had sinus problems, until CT scans showed something

> > very different.

> >

> > Anyway, it's interesting. The first day I used the

> > spray, Sunday, it

> > felt really good, but I'm now noticing that my

> > throat/sinuses burn

> > for a while after spraying, so I think I've

> > definitely got some

> > irritation going on.

> >

> > This is going to sound whacky, but after trying

> > everything else,

> > like i.v. Colloidal silver, and i.v. H202 (hydrogen

> > peroxide) along

> > with more normal means of administration (like in my

> > nasal/dental

> > rinses), and feeling they were only marginally

> > helpful, I'm going to

> > start nebulizing, hydro-pulsing (nasal irrigation)

> > and hydro-

> > flossing with tiny amounts of bleach. I now know two

> > people who've

> > nebulized bleach and are very positive that it's

> > helped. I am NOT

> > recommending this to anyone else, but I know that

> > bleach is about

> > the best antimicrobial in existence. Unfortunatley,

> > with my current

> > sinus irritation, I think I'll wait a bit before

> > putting it into my

> > sinuses, but in the meantime, I'm going to add a

> > couple of drops to

> > my hydrofloss, and clean my mouth/teeth with it.

> >

> > One thing I think people are really overlooking in

> > their attempts to

> > define our organisms as being strictly

> > intracellular, etc., is that

> > these organisms, in their many forms, can take up

> > residence in

> > almost any environment, not just inside the cell,

> > and become

> > impervious to almost all attempts at eradication.

> > Here's an example.

> > As a bio-physical chemist, my husband was naturally

> > attracted to

> > brewing beer at home. He made some amazingly good

> > brews. But he also

> > had to deal with bacterial contamination that could

> > give the brew an

> > off-taste. He started out using plastic vats for

> > brewing, but found

> > that even with sterilization, the bacteria could

> > stay embedded in

> > the plastic, and the next batch would be

> > contaminated. If he got

> > brand new vats, the brew would be fine. But he

> > couldn't reuse them

> > for long. This means that the bacteria could embed

> > itself in the

> > plastic and despite sterilization with both boiling

> > water and

> > bleach, the bacteria could survive to ruin another

> > batch. He

> > switched his brew making efforts to glass vats, as

> > it's less

> > permeable than the plastic, and the contamination

> > was no longer a

> > problem.

> >

> > My point is, bugs know how to protect themselves,

> > and how to

> > penetrate almost everything. So places like our

> > sinuses are a piece

> > of cake. And if there's an entryway into bone, they

> > love it, as

> > there's so little blood flow and oxygen to the

> > region, so they have

> > a nice protected home, where they can produce their

> > toxins, making

> > us feel lousy.

> >

> > My husband (and Tony) says bleach is the only thing

> > that can really

> > kill most bugs, it's what they use to sterilize

> > scientific equipment

> > with. But even so, it can still be ineffective

> > against bugs hiding

> > in plastic.

> >

> > Fortunatley, my sinuses aren't as rigid and

> > impermeable as plastic,

> > so at this point, a couple of drops of bleach in my

> > nebulizer or

> > hydroflosser seems like a risk worth taking

> > (especially after

> > knowing a couple people who've done it with no bad

> > effects). I also

> > know that there are a few doctors who use miniscule

> > amounts of a

> > specially developed bleach solution and administer

> > it i.v. Even

> > though it's not illegal, it's unconventional and

> > hard to get, so

> > they're mostly doing it on the Q.T. or in Mexico.

> > But again, I'm not

> > suggesting anyone else try this. I'll just report

> > how it goes for me.

> >

> > But back to Sino Fresh. So far I'm liking it a lot.

> > It's like when I

> > started the Benicar and immediately knew it was

> > affecting my

> > symptoms of inflammation. I feel the same way about

> > the Sino Fresh.

> > It's definitely doing something. The lessening of

> > the salty taste

> > and mucous is a big change for me. My energy is also

> > improving a

> > bit, but whether this is coincidental, or actually

> > the result of

> > lessening the infection, I don't know.

> >

> > penny

> >

> > p.s. It's really weird that I posted about Sino

> > Fresh very early

> > Sunday morning, even went to a 24 hour pharmacy to

> > get some, and my

> > post apparently didn't show up until much, much

> > later.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Celebrate 's 10th Birthday!

> Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web

> http://birthday./netrospective/

[Guest guest]

There are some studies that show low dose arsenic also works... Maybe some

day we will know how to administer the exact dose of something to be

effective vs toxic.

Anyway, you can get so much improvement from less drastic measures than

bleach that I would just want to be sure you have tried everything you can.

I have been using the grossan irrigator with salt and baking soda,

grapefruit seed extract, sometimes hydrogen peroxide, and recently added

xylitol which is supposed to make it hard for bacteria.

Doris

[Guest guest]

Salt is a major killer. Id be more happy with that Penny.

s

> There are some studies that show low dose arsenic also works... Maybe

> some

> day we will know how to administer the exact dose of something to be

> effective vs toxic.

>

> Anyway, you can get so much improvement from less drastic measures

> than

> bleach that I would just want to be sure you have tried everything

> you can.

> I have been using the grossan irrigator with salt and baking soda,

> grapefruit seed extract, sometimes hydrogen peroxide, and recently

> added

> xylitol which is supposed to make it hard for bacteria.

>

> Doris

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Doris and Dan,

Yes, Doris, if I were in Europe, I'd probably have tried the medical

arsenic already. This is another of those greatly misunderstood

therapies that was used quite successfully up until abx were

introduced. In the U.S. it's limited to leukemia now, but it's still

available elsewhere.

I understand where you're coming from, and certainly wouldn't want

you to do what I'm doing, but you should try to understand where I'm

coming from. I have both the Grossan Irrigator (Hydropulse) and the

Hydrofloss, and use them with salt, h202, silver, xylitol etc. The

toothpaste I've used daily for years has grapefruit extract in it. I

use both Breathe Ease and Xlear.

Sorry if I sound frustrated but I am. I've known about the bleach

for a couple of years too, and have weighed it for just as long. My

mouth and sinuses are getting worse, despite everything I've done. I

can taste the salty drainage constantly, seeping in around my teeth

and through the roof of my mouth, coating my teeth, and running down

the back of my throat. The Sino Fresh and oral rinse with bleach are

eradicating both that taste and the thick mucous.

I have not graduated along the path from holistic to pharmaceutical

to common household bleach in any kind of mindless or thoughtless

way. For years, I did everything I possibly could before I gave in

and realized that antibiotics were much more effective for me than

natural approaches. Believe me, all my friends lecture me

continuously on why I shouldn't use ABX, but they don't understand

this illness. They have no clue how I really feel with and without

abx. I realized quite a while ago that I'm alone in this. Nobody

really gets it, except for a very few friends who have what I have.

And I do listen to what those people tell me about their experiences

because I know they understand.

EAch person knows what they can take and can't, what they're willing

to do and what they aren't. I'm sick of being sick. I'm sick of this

infection that just gets worse and worse. Especially since the

Benicar is helping so many of the other symptoms, I'd like to really

get rid of this infection at the same time, since I don't want or

plan to take Benicar indefinitely.

Believe me, I'm far less worried about my experiments with bleach

than I am about a lot of drugs I've tried.

Right now, I'm simply irrigating my mouth and teeth (with the

hydrofloss) with a few drops of bleach. Can hardly taste it. If I

start having a bad reaction, I'll stop. So far, all is good. Having

slightly runny stools, but this happens every time I kill bugs.

To be honest, the Sino Fresh and the bleach seem to be more

effective than everything else I've tried, and in a much shorter

time. And a bonus is that my teeth, which have been getting so brown

and covered with placque build-up lately, are getting whiter and

feel way less coated and plaque crunchy. If nothing else, I must at

least be addressing the staph aureus that was proliferating in my

mouth.

I'm also excited that the SinoFresh is effective against not only

MRSA staph, but also against Psuedomonas, which is one of the

organisms I have in my sinuses which is extremely difficult to beat.

It needs at least 2 abx at a time to eradicate it, and so far, I

haven't been able to get it. I'm amazed that a simple OTC product

can kill it.

penny

> There are some studies that show low dose arsenic also works...

Maybe some

> day we will know how to administer the exact dose of something to

be

> effective vs toxic.

>

> Anyway, you can get so much improvement from less drastic measures

than

> bleach that I would just want to be sure you have tried everything

you can.

> I have been using the grossan irrigator with salt and baking soda,

> grapefruit seed extract, sometimes hydrogen peroxide, and recently

added

> xylitol which is supposed to make it hard for bacteria.

>

> Doris

[Guest guest]

<colourbleu@f...> wrote:

> Salt is a major killer. Id be more happy with that Penny.

>

> s

I'd be happy too, if it did the job, Steve. So far, haven't been

able to get enough salt into the region. Not without serious pain,

and I'm too much of a wuss for that.

Actually, I'm planning to revisit the salt/vitamin C again. I think

that protocol has potential. Think I'll start back up on the

magnesium and B-complex as well. These are things that work for me

and maybe in conjunction with what I'm doing, I can take a break

from the abx, which my body's screaming to do.

penny

[Guest guest]

It makes plenty of sense to me, Penny.

It seems to me as long as the bleach is well diluted it can hardly

be much worse than the tap water in my apartment, which reeks of

chlorine so bad that even passing it through a brita filter barely

makes it palatable. I don't drink the stuff much, but I do use it to

irrigate my sinuses, and figured that the chlorine couldn't hurt.

I have to get a non-electric thingy for irrigating, though, the

noise the machine a friend gave me makes is totally unacceptable.

Sinuses may love it but ears plead for mercy everytime I turn the

thing on. (How much noise can really be needed to pump a gentle

stream of water into your nose?)

I've learned a ton about these infections reading yours and Tony's

posts, also Jaeps about fungal pathogens in the sinuses. Seems

reasonable and smart to use whatever is safe and effective to target

them.

I swam an hour of continuous laps in a chlorinated pool every day

for nearly a decade, and was in pretty good health the whole time.

Seems to me Barb's point about that was dead on. I did wonder, as

she did, whether the chlorine compound they use in pools is the same

as the one in household bleach. I'd like to be reassured about that,

because not all versions of the same basic chemical are equally easy

to dilute in a weak but stable concentration, but assuming the

solution is properly diluted, I don't really see a problem.

I think maybe some people are remembering the warnings we used to

get, which were perfectly correct, about combining household bleach

products and pneumonia, because the result is a nerve toxin.

Chlorine gas itself is a nerve toxin, but I don't think a diluted

solution falls in that category, and the BUGS produce nerve toxins

(well, a lot of them do) on a daily basis.

I have a lot of respect for your research and judgment, and continue

to learn from you.

> > There are some studies that show low dose arsenic also works...

> Maybe some

> > day we will know how to administer the exact dose of something

to

> be

> > effective vs toxic.

> >

> > Anyway, you can get so much improvement from less drastic

measures

> than

> > bleach that I would just want to be sure you have tried

everything

> you can.

> > I have been using the grossan irrigator with salt and baking

soda,

> > grapefruit seed extract, sometimes hydrogen peroxide, and

recently

> added

> > xylitol which is supposed to make it hard for bacteria.

> >

> > Doris

[Guest guest]

You have to give it to us, were all true Navigators...

>

> It makes plenty of sense to me, Penny.

>

> It seems to me as long as the bleach is well diluted it can hardly

> be much worse than the tap water in my apartment, which reeks of

> chlorine so bad that even passing it through a brita filter barely

> makes it palatable. I don't drink the stuff much, but I do use it to

> irrigate my sinuses, and figured that the chlorine couldn't hurt.

>

> I have to get a non-electric thingy for irrigating, though, the

> noise the machine a friend gave me makes is totally unacceptable.

> Sinuses may love it but ears plead for mercy everytime I turn the

> thing on. (How much noise can really be needed to pump a gentle

> stream of water into your nose?)

>

> I've learned a ton about these infections reading yours and Tony's

> posts, also Jaeps about fungal pathogens in the sinuses. Seems

> reasonable and smart to use whatever is safe and effective to target

> them.

>

> I swam an hour of continuous laps in a chlorinated pool every day

> for nearly a decade, and was in pretty good health the whole time.

> Seems to me Barb's point about that was dead on. I did wonder, as

> she did, whether the chlorine compound they use in pools is the same

> as the one in household bleach. I'd like to be reassured about that,

> because not all versions of the same basic chemical are equally easy

> to dilute in a weak but stable concentration, but assuming the

> solution is properly diluted, I don't really see a problem.

>

> I think maybe some people are remembering the warnings we used to

> get, which were perfectly correct, about combining household bleach

> products and pneumonia, because the result is a nerve toxin.

> Chlorine gas itself is a nerve toxin, but I don't think a diluted

> solution falls in that category, and the BUGS produce nerve toxins

> (well, a lot of them do) on a daily basis.

>

> I have a lot of respect for your research and judgment, and continue

> to learn from you.

>

>

>

>

> > > There are some studies that show low dose arsenic also works...

> > Maybe some

> > > day we will know how to administer the exact dose of something

> to

> > be

> > > effective vs toxic.

> > >

> > > Anyway, you can get so much improvement from less drastic

> measures

> > than

> > > bleach that I would just want to be sure you have tried

> everything

> > you can.

> > > I have been using the grossan irrigator with salt and baking

> soda,

> > > grapefruit seed extract, sometimes hydrogen peroxide, and

> recently

> > added

> > > xylitol which is supposed to make it hard for bacteria.

> > >

> > > Doris

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear All

From the point of view of chlorine alone , it probably makes little difference which source is used. However many of the sodium hypochlorite domestic products now have added detergents, stabilisers and other contaminants undesirable in human sinuses. A safer approach would be to do what the plant tissue culture enthusiasts do which is to use powdered sodium hypochlorite or preferably , calcium hypochlorite to make a fresh solution on a regular basis ( short shelf life without the undesirable stabilisers etc.) and test the concentration of available chlorine using a commercially available swimming pool test kit ( very accurate in the range of concentrations of interest to this group.

Regards

Windsor

[infections] Re: SinoFresh ingredients... H202, bleach, etc.

It makes plenty of sense to me, Penny.It seems to me as long as the bleach is well diluted it can hardly be much worse than the tap water in my apartment, which reeks of chlorine so bad that even passing it through a brita filter barely makes it palatable. I don't drink the stuff much, but I do use it to irrigate my sinuses, and figured that the chlorine couldn't hurt.I have to get a non-electric thingy for irrigating, though, the noise the machine a friend gave me makes is totally unacceptable. Sinuses may love it but ears plead for mercy everytime I turn the thing on. (How much noise can really be needed to pump a gentle stream of water into your nose?)I've learned a ton about these infections reading yours and Tony's posts, also Jaeps about fungal pathogens in the sinuses. Seems reasonable and smart to use whatever is safe and effective to target them.I swam an hour of continuous laps in a chlorinated pool every day for nearly a decade, and was in pretty good health the whole time. Seems to me Barb's point about that was dead on. I did wonder, as she did, whether the chlorine compound they use in pools is the same as the one in household bleach. I'd like to be reassured about that, because not all versions of the same basic chemical are equally easy to dilute in a weak but stable concentration, but assuming the solution is properly diluted, I don't really see a problem.I think maybe some people are remembering the warnings we used to get, which were perfectly correct, about combining household bleach products and pneumonia, because the result is a nerve toxin. Chlorine gas itself is a nerve toxin, but I don't think a diluted solution falls in that category, and the BUGS produce nerve toxins (well, a lot of them do) on a daily basis.I have a lot of respect for your research and judgment, and continue to learn from you.

[Guest guest]

In answer to Barb's question. Apparently, Chlorine is Chlorine,

regardless of whether it's in the pool, our drinking water, or

household bleach.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/question189.htm

And thanks for the tip, , on a potentially safer approach.

I assume that swimmers have been consuming far more chlorine than I

have, so I think I'll continue to pursue this and see where it takes

me. I'll keep reporting my experiences, good and bad.

penny

> Dear All

> From the point of view of chlorine alone , it probably makes

little difference which source is used. However many of the sodium

hypochlorite domestic products now have added detergents,

stabilisers and other contaminants undesirable in human sinuses. A

safer approach would be to do what the plant tissue culture

enthusiasts do which is to use powdered sodium hypochlorite or

preferably , calcium hypochlorite to make a fresh solution on a

regular basis ( short shelf life without the undesirable stabilisers

etc.) and test the concentration of available chlorine using a

commercially available swimming pool test kit ( very accurate in the

range of concentrations of interest to this group.

> Regards

> Windsor

> [infections] Re: SinoFresh

ingredients... H202, bleach, etc.

>

>

>

> It makes plenty of sense to me, Penny.

>

> It seems to me as long as the bleach is well diluted it can

hardly

> be much worse than the tap water in my apartment, which reeks of

> chlorine so bad that even passing it through a brita filter

barely

> makes it palatable. I don't drink the stuff much, but I do use

it to

> irrigate my sinuses, and figured that the chlorine couldn't hurt.

>

> I have to get a non-electric thingy for irrigating, though, the

> noise the machine a friend gave me makes is totally

unacceptable.

> Sinuses may love it but ears plead for mercy everytime I turn

the

> thing on. (How much noise can really be needed to pump a gentle

> stream of water into your nose?)

>

> I've learned a ton about these infections reading yours and

Tony's

> posts, also Jaeps about fungal pathogens in the sinuses.

Seems

> reasonable and smart to use whatever is safe and effective to

target

> them.

>

> I swam an hour of continuous laps in a chlorinated pool every

day

> for nearly a decade, and was in pretty good health the whole

time.

> Seems to me Barb's point about that was dead on. I did wonder,

as

> she did, whether the chlorine compound they use in pools is the

same

> as the one in household bleach. I'd like to be reassured about

that,

> because not all versions of the same basic chemical are equally

easy

> to dilute in a weak but stable concentration, but assuming the

> solution is properly diluted, I don't really see a problem.

>

> I think maybe some people are remembering the warnings we used

to

> get, which were perfectly correct, about combining household

bleach

> products and pneumonia, because the result is a nerve toxin.

> Chlorine gas itself is a nerve toxin, but I don't think a

diluted

> solution falls in that category, and the BUGS produce nerve

toxins

> (well, a lot of them do) on a daily basis.

>

> I have a lot of respect for your research and judgment, and

continue

> to learn from you.

>

>

[Guest guest]

<colourbleu@f...> wrote:

> You have to give it to us, were all true Navigators...

Yeah, fearless in the face of death kind of thing. You know what

they say, if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. I may not

be physically strong, but this illness has definitely made me

stronger in other ways, from this illness.

penny