Re: HCQ/Macrolide/Brorsons/Donta - Kate/

[Guest guest]

Barb can you give me a quick guided tour of the HCQ theory and

treatment that you used with it.

>

> Kate:

>     Brorson's paper is detailing the HCQ dose in vitro

> to damage new Lyme cysts and Old cysts.

>

>    The dose to damage young cyst is within the oral safe dose range

> of HCQ, but to damage an old cyst, the dose is over double the safe

> oral dose.

>     I think I have the full paper somewhere- but as I understand the

> paper, they weren't adressing the PH change within the cell at all

> and not were they mixing any other abx with HCQ.

>

>   As far as who Donta takes on as patients and who he doesn't, I've

> read on LymeNet posts which challenge the statements that he doesn't

> take anyone suspected of co-infections.  He wasn't extremely excited

> to take on a patient like me with several autoimmune dx's prior to

> Lyme- stating my case was extremely complicated.  It was my decision

> not to take the long drive to Boston to see him.  I had read his

> theorys though.. and when I read Brorson's , it made alot of sense to

> me and I combined the two with my own therapy - and the outcome was

> very sucessfull for me.

>

>   There are a few really good papers out there now, independant of

> Donta's theory ( but I think they support it) about the PH bacteria

> and fungi like to live in.. including papers on the sensitivities of

> bacteria to various abx  at several PH values.. so there is info

> emerging that's very very intersting on that topic.

>

> HCQ is a very interesting drug, with alot of various mechanisms

> when it gets into the body.  It potentiates fluconazole, so that

> yeast strains normally resistant to fluconazole alone are suseptible

> when HCQ is present.

>

> IMO..the best info on drugs comes from reading the Anitmicrobial

> Chemotherapy Journal papers.

>

> Barb

>

>

>

>

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> " Hodologica " <usenethod@y...>

> Date:  Mon Mar 21, 2005  11:26 pm

> Subject:  Re: HCQ/Macrolide/Brorsons/Donta - Nelly

>

>

> True.

>

> Dontas experiment has a control: he says HCQ does not add anything

> to tetracycline therapy. But he doesnt give the data.

>

> Nelly reports having heard Donta only takes " classic " cases in which

> there isnt cause to suspect co-infections - any more info on that,

> Nelly? I wonder if that may apply to his studies, which apparently

> were done in his clinic, but dont mention those inclusion criteria?

>

> An interesting question is whether HCQ action on cysts shows O2

> dependance as tini does:

> http://www.im.microbios.org/26June04/09 Brorson.pdf

>

> And whether those O2 dependances are relevant over physiological

> concentrations....

>

> And whether one of the two is superiorly active at achievable

> doses...

>

> And which can traverse BBB better...

>

> I think I want to take one of these drugs soon so I'll be shakin

> these questions.

>

> Its interesting to consider Donta theory in light of the lyme TEM.

> Almost all TEM authors agree that very few borrelia can be found. I

> cannot speak to the true nitty gritty of whether reliance on

> techniques like needle biopsy, etc, may limit success in finding the

> organism. But - if there IS a " missing biomass " , and it were inside

> a vacuole, in whatever form, it should be alot easier to see, as far

> as I know, than if it were free in cytoplasm. What I'm driving at is

> that if there are in fact alot of borrelia present in lyme, and they

> were largely envacuolated, I would sorta expect them to have been

> discovered, but I definitely cant say I understand everything that

> might be relevant to making that judgement.

>

> I do know, firmly, that small variants in cytoplasm can be virtually

> impossible to positively identify visually even with excellent TEM.

> Im talkin about the Wirostko/ uveitis L-forms here. You

> cannot confidently pick them out of a lineup of innocent eucaryote

> organelles like mitochondria and leukocyte granules. Its the

> occasional associated severe cytopathy and walled forms - but even

> moreso the excellent supporting experiments executed by that group -

> that showed what they had were bacteria for certain. I have the

> impression that a TEM observer lacking certain knowledge could have

> totally missed what that group found.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ok give me the long version please.

>

>

> I can't do it quickly- as other than my initial stint with Doxy,

> it was combined with almost every thing I took (or was in my tissues

> from preloading).

> Barb

>

>  

> Color wrote:

> Barb can you give me a quick guided tour of the HCQ theory and

> treatment that you used with it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:27 AM, Barb Peck wrote:

> I can't do it quickly- as other than my initial stint with Doxy,

> it was combined with almost every thing I took (or was in my tissues

> from preloading).

> Barb

Barb, what is your opinion on how related HCQ is to quinolone

antibiotics? I am still really scared of HCQ, even though I let my son

go on it with Zithromax. I would like to do something similar myself,

however I am one of the ones who reacted badly to Samento in the

tendons. I have never taken a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, and probably

never will. My son's LLMD and our pharmacist told us that HCQ is quite

different from the quinolone antibiotics and doesn't have the same side

effects, but I'm still worried and watching my son carefully (making

him nervous with inquisitions about his reactions!).

- Kate D.

[Guest guest]

I’m not Barb but I’ve been on

HCQ for 4 years now with absolutely no side effects and it has been most

helpful. Patrice

From: Kate

[mailto:KateDunlay@...]

Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:25

PM

infections

Subject: Re: [infections]

HCQ/Macrolide/Brorsons/Donta - Kate/

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:27 AM, Barb Peck wrote:

I can't do it quickly- as other than my initial stint

with Doxy,

it was combined with almost every thing I took (or

was in my tissues

from preloading).

Barb

Barb, what is your opinion on how related HCQ is to quinolone antibiotics? I am

still really scared of HCQ, even though I let my son go on it with Zithromax. I

would like to do something similar myself, however I am one of the ones who

reacted badly to Samento in the tendons. I have never taken a fluoroquinolone

antibiotic, and probably never will. My son's LLMD and our pharmacist told us

that HCQ is quite different from the quinolone antibiotics and doesn't have the

same side effects, but I'm still worried and watching my son carefully (making

him nervous with inquisitions about his reactions!).

- Kate D.

[Guest guest]

> I'm not Barb but I've been on HCQ for 4 years now with absolutely

no side

> effects and it has been most helpful. Patrice

>

When my adrenals were really weak I couldn't tolerate the Plaquenil

but now I am taking 2 daily as per Donta together with 1000 mg

Erythromycin capsules and I have never felt so well. Its a

brilliant combination that seems to be suiting me really well. I

would be happy to stay on it forever it made me feel this well.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Pam,

What were you experiencing when your ardenals were weak and you couldn't tolerate plaquenil? I become catatonic when on plaquenil, just stare at the wall all day, can't move, even on 50mg/day (yes a quarter of a tablet)

Nelly> When my adrenals were really weak I couldn't tolerate the Plaquenil but now I am taking 2 daily as per Donta together with 1000 mg Erythromycin capsules and I have never felt so well. Its a brilliant combination that seems to be suiting me really well. I would be happy to stay on it forever it made me feel this well.Pam

[Guest guest]

Hi Nelly

The symptoms were mainly severe anxiety and dizziness which seemed

to affect my balance badly. This made me so anxious on the 2nd

night of taking half the dose I had a severe panic attack.

This time of taking it I started at half the dose but no symptoms

whatsover. I am now on the full dose without any problems (together

with the Erthyro) Just cannot believe how well I feel.

Pam

>

> What were you experiencing when your ardenals were weak and you

couldn't tolerate plaquenil? I become catatonic when on plaquenil,

just stare at the wall all day, can't move, even on 50mg/day (yes a

quarter of a tablet)

> Nelly

> >

> When my adrenals were really weak I couldn't tolerate the

Plaquenil

> but now I am taking 2 daily as per Donta together with 1000 mg

> Erythromycin capsules and I have never felt so well. Its a

> brilliant combination that seems to be suiting me really well. I

> would be happy to stay on it forever it made me feel this well.

>

> Pam

>

[Guest guest]

good to hear your doing so well Pam

>

>

> > I'm not Barb but I've been on HCQ for 4 years now with absolutely

> no side

> > effects and it has been most helpful.  Patrice

> >

> When my adrenals were really weak I couldn't tolerate the Plaquenil

> but now I am taking 2 daily as per Donta together with 1000 mg

> Erythromycin capsules and I have never felt so well.  Its a

> brilliant combination that seems to be suiting me really well.  I

> would be happy to stay on it forever it made me feel this well.

>

> Pam

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> good to hear your doing so well Pam

>

>

Thanks Steve and Barb

Didn't believe I could ever feel this well again. Remarkable!

Pam