Re: Regrouping after being Shut Down

[Guest guest]

Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

??

====================

The Lyme Disease Book

http://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

I don't know why the original I & I group was shut down as I'm no longer the group owner. All I know is that the new owner did not shut it down and that he received some kind of vague notification from .

I was able to open a new group by slightly changing the group name (by adding a 2) but I think we need to figure out a more permanent solution. I'm not interested in being the permanent owner of the group.

penny

theskyking123 <TheSkyKing@...> wrote:

Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down, how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group???====================The Lyme Disease Bookhttp://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

I've been receiving a lot of really interesting email. The outrage

that this action has caused is very real, very large and growing.

The closure of the original I & I group was not an accident nor a

glitch. I & I was specifically targeted through some kind of

complaint regarding user rules which are usually not observed. It

has correctly been pointed out to me that there are many

groups with much more free wheeling and inflammatory statements

being made daily than have ever been said at I & I.

penny

>

>

> theskyking123 <TheSkyKing@a...> wrote:

>

> Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

> happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

> how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

>

> ??

>

>

>

> ====================

> The Lyme Disease Book

> http://www.lymebook.com

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know the ins and outs of how one shuts down a group. I

do know that a certain electrical engineer has shown a determination

to shut this group down in the past.

It will take a while to figure out what's happened, assuming we ever

do figure it out.

I am EXTREMELY frustrated about the loss of the I & I archives,

which were about the richest source of relevant information I've

found. We've had a lot of very smart, committed patients constantly

searching Pub Med, Current Reports, Igentaconnect, etc and reporting

links/abstracts that are relevant. I personally made the foolish

mistake of counting on the I & I archives to remain available, so

that there are literally dozens of research findings I didn't take

the time to save locally, having posted them to the old site.

Whoever is behind this, they have done real injury to me and to many

others who counted on I & I to help them sort through current

research on these very difficult, complex illnesses.

I am tempted to borrow New Testament language about 'those who hate

the light,' because it exposes their misdeeds. I & I was

distinguished by a singularly favorable ratio of light to heat,

reasoned exposition to inflamed opinion. Anyone who finds THAT a

threat has to be pretty far gone...

I want those archives back, dammit! Not that it will probably do any

good, but is there someone at groups I can write to about this?

It's so damn infuriating...

Still, we have to resist letting this kind of adversity shut us

down. This group has been too useful, on all sorts of levels, to

allow some two-bit bully to put an end to it. The thing is, the

burden of defending the site has to find new shoulders to bear it.

Penny's already sacrificed so much to keep this place going. I don't

know 'sleepless', who took over ownership of the site after Penny

had to fend off Marshall's outrageous lawsuit, but I hope that he or

she is up for pursuing this vigorously with to find out what

happened and if possible get our archives BACK.

I think there may be one or two list members at least who archived a

lot of the site on their home PCs, so maybe failing anything else we

can get some stuff back that way...

Anyhow, thanks (again) to Penny for giving us a temporary space to

keep the site going while we try to identify and resolve whatever

caused this to happen.

>

> Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

> happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

> how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

>

> ??

>

>

>

> ====================

> The Lyme Disease Book

> http://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

Thank you Penny

I & I was such a great source of information; I learned so much from

the discussions there. Censorship and actions like this are borne of

fear/intolerance of others' knowledge and opnions. I guess whoever

took the action to ensure the first group was shut down need to ask

themself(s) why it was deemed such a threat and how this now refelcts

upon them.

BW, Jean

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> As you now realize, the original Infection and Inflammation Group

> has been shut down.

>

> I have created this new group simply for the purpose of being a

> temporary holding area where we can communicate, make

announcements,

> etc., until we figure out where we want to go.

>

> I'm as appalled as I'm sure you are, that we continue to be

targeted

> with these kinds of actions, simply for wanting to discuss our

> health and treatment options without censorship.

>

> Please stay tuned until we know where we want to go.

>

> penny houle

[Guest guest]

You know , that is a bit hypocritical of you to ask this

question when you yourself have censored me for a long time while

letting the same wackos (yeah, I am not the one who called them crazy-

-take a poll and you'll see that these same people drove others off

the list too) who argued with me run rampant on your own list, or

censor me just b/c my opinion about machines doesn't fit your grand

scheme of the machines you pushed on everyone (some of us still never

figured out why you were so aggressive in pushing a certain brand).

Get real. This is what censoring leads to and why I told you to be

careful of eating your own words a long time ago. If a person has to

censor others who disagree with them, what does it say about their

protocol? Get ready for infectionandinflammation3 and then 4 and ad

infinitum...

>

> Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

> happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

> how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

>

> ??

>

>

>

> ====================

> The Lyme Disease Book

> http://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

Well one could always make a forum group just like MP list but that

would not be as much fun now would it? Freedom of speech will

continue to exist, just be more difficult, just like theskyking makes

it for me to post on his list for example.

> >

> > Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

> > happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

> > how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

> >

> > ??

> >

> >

> >

> > ====================

> > The Lyme Disease Book

> > http://www.lymebook.com

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Is this list too going to be censored or is the entire list on

temporary moderation or what's the deal b/c I am going to sign off if

it is just another censored list. How ironic if so.

> > >

> > > Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that -

what

> > > happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut

down,

> > > how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

> > >

> > > ??

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ====================

> > > The Lyme Disease Book

> > > http://www.lymebook.com

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

I am sure most of us share your frustrations. The archives at I & I

provided us all with valuable informmation and the debates here

helped me get my head around the information I needed.

Penny, thanks for acting so quickly and providing us with an

alternative.

Cheers, Tansy

> >

> > Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what

> > happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down,

> > how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?

> >

> > ??

> >

> >

> >

> > ====================

> > The Lyme Disease Book

> > http://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

" Those who hate the Light " sums it up well.

Please, if members could go through archives on their personal computers

and send any/all articles that were previously submitted to Infection and

Inflammation, that would be helpful.

Thank you.

ks

Canada

[Guest guest]

Penny,

Thanks for the invitation...

Even though I haven't participated (yet), this has been my favourite

group due to the amount of research and intelligent discourse.

" Someone " must be very concerned about the content of I & I to have it

shut down.

Looking forward,

Robyn

[Guest guest]

Sorry , I have no idea what you're speculating about. There is

no " moderation " happening here. As before, banning is reserved for

spammers or for serious violators of privacy (there was only one

privacy banning in the history of the previous I & I list).

I believe in free speech, and people will be warned if I feel

they're crossing the line of what's acceptable, which is pretty much

everything, other than what I outlined above. The only exception to

that rule is for moderators from a certain unnameable message board

who have been involved in legal or other actions which I feel are

harmful to myself, my family, the existence of the previous I & I

group, or to this new group. I won't waste my time warning those

people before banning them. They are unwelcome here.

This group is only temporary until a permanent solution is found.

penny

>

> Is this list too going to be censored or is the entire list on

> temporary moderation or what's the deal b/c I am going to sign off

if

> it is just another censored list. How ironic if so.

>

[Guest guest]

yes, external much worse than internal censoring, i agree. but it all

starts with internal just like on the lyme-and-rife group when

(aka Theskyking, as an ironic example of someone who is surprised that

freedom of speech can so easily be abducted on the former I & I group)

kicked out a bunch of germans called MFC group b/c some felt that was

a better product than another pulser pushes built by another

person he favors, when meanwhile the guy who builds the pulser for

instance scares away a scientist engineer guy from the list and is not

censored himself, despite offending people from other faiths. i

defend myself against the pulser guy when i was attacked out of the

blue by him and i get censored and haven't publicly complained but

sorry , you really pushed my buttons when you posted about

freedom of speech when you're no one to talk as you have done plenty

of censoring on your own group when something doesn't fit your agenda.

it's all politics and politics brings out the hypocrisy in us,

especially when we have agendas. sometimes that agenda can be as

simple as thinking our current protocol (whether MP or rife machines

or abx taken a certain way) is THE WAY and supercedes everyone elses

and that way we feel better about our own protocol, that is is the

right thing to do and puts our conscience at ease that we are doing

the best thing.

but life isn't that simple--it is full of gray areas. we have to be

careful to look in the mirror and remember all of our own crap stinks

too and that we all have different points of view. being a moderator

isn't easy but it works best when one does like Ken did on his CFSExp

group and took a less active participation in his group and did not

set agendas and act like only he knew what the truth is. one of the

worst things i hate on groups is when one person has to ignore the

issue and take up for a person by giving their emotional two cents

worth. thank you very much. this post may be a bit soapboxish but at

least i pointed out some clear concrete examples of just how easy it

is to censor people and from another who complains about it at that.

hopefully i can leave it at that or raise this issue again in the

InfectionAndInflamation3 group. now that i vented i am not so

inflammed...ahhhhhh.

jason

>

> :

> The shutting down of I/I could be viewed as

> a sucessfull form of (external) censorship.

>

> Now that's there's a precedent, any list

> is susceptible.

>

> Barb

>

>

> wrote

> Is this list too going to be censored or is the entire list on

> temporary moderation or what's the deal b/c I am going to sign off if

> it is just another censored list. How ironic if so.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear

I have around 11000 archived messages, any use?

[ ] Re: Regrouping after being Shut Down

I don't know the ins and outs of how one shuts down a group. I do know that a certain electrical engineer has shown a determination to shut this group down in the past.It will take a while to figure out what's happened, assuming we ever do figure it out. I am EXTREMELY frustrated about the loss of the I & I archives, which were about the richest source of relevant information I've found. We've had a lot of very smart, committed patients constantly searching Pub Med, Current Reports, Igentaconnect, etc and reporting links/abstracts that are relevant. I personally made the foolish mistake of counting on the I & I archives to remain available, so that there are literally dozens of research findings I didn't take the time to save locally, having posted them to the old site.Whoever is behind this, they have done real injury to me and to many others who counted on I & I to help them sort through current research on these very difficult, complex illnesses.I am tempted to borrow New Testament language about 'those who hate the light,' because it exposes their misdeeds. I & I was distinguished by a singularly favorable ratio of light to heat, reasoned exposition to inflamed opinion. Anyone who finds THAT a threat has to be pretty far gone...I want those archives back, dammit! Not that it will probably do any good, but is there someone at groups I can write to about this? It's so damn infuriating...Still, we have to resist letting this kind of adversity shut us down. This group has been too useful, on all sorts of levels, to allow some two-bit bully to put an end to it. The thing is, the burden of defending the site has to find new shoulders to bear it. Penny's already sacrificed so much to keep this place going. I don't know 'sleepless', who took over ownership of the site after Penny had to fend off Marshall's outrageous lawsuit, but I hope that he or she is up for pursuing this vigorously with to find out what happened and if possible get our archives BACK.I think there may be one or two list members at least who archived a lot of the site on their home PCs, so maybe failing anything else we can get some stuff back that way...Anyhow, thanks (again) to Penny for giving us a temporary space to keep the site going while we try to identify and resolve whatever caused this to happen.> > Why were you shut down? Dr. Marshall? How can he do that - what > happened to freedom of speech? Also, if the group was shut down, > how/why is it permissable to resume with this new group?> > ??> > > > ====================> The Lyme Disease Book> http://www.lymebook.com

[Guest guest]

Wow, that's great. :-)

penny

" Windsor " <rwindsor@a...> wrote:

> Dear

> I have around 11000 archived messages, any use?

> ----- Original Message -----

> Regards

> Windsor

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> As you now realize, the original Infection and Inflammation Group

> has been shut down.

>

> I have created this new group simply for the purpose of being a

> temporary holding area where we can communicate, make

announcements,

> etc., until we figure out where we want to go.

>

> I'm as appalled as I'm sure you are, that we continue to be

targeted

> with these kinds of actions, simply for wanting to discuss our

> health and treatment options without censorship.

>

> Please stay tuned until we know where we want to go.

>

Hi Penny and all

So glad I have found you all again, I got very worried and missed

all " the Brains " .

Best Wishes

Pam

[Guest guest]

Well, I certainly didn't subscribe you. As a member of the former

group, you were simply invited to join this one, not forced to join.

I don't know how or if you are a member, but if you follow the

instructions that you copied in your message, you can unsubscribe

your oh-so-much-calmer self, yourself. :-)

penny

--- In infections , Gjgilberg@a...

wrote:

> >

>

> I never subscribed - and do not wish to be on this hysterical site.