Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 Hello I wonder if someone would be able to shed some light on this lotion ingredient list for me. The ingredients are listed as follows: Water; Extracts of Arnica, Hypericum & Calendula in Canola oil with Naturox(anti-oxidant), Peppermint oil, Cetearyl alcohol, Glycerol stearate & PEG100 stearate, Beeswax, Glycerin, Propyl paraben, Methyl Paraben. OK now I know what the methyl and Propyl parabens are, but what are the Cetearyl alcohol , glycerol stearate and PEG100 stearate used for in this lotion. I hope this hasn't been covered before, I did go through the archives and found any references to these a bit confusing. Would one of our generous chemists please explain them to me in some detail. I don't mind if they prefer to do it off list if this has been covered, or if they can give me some indication of what the topic of discussion was where they previously discussed it or approximate date PLEASE! I made up some lotion yesterday, but after some discussion with a collegue think they are right and the ewax (croda's ) is the reason for it being so oily. I really want to avoid that feel if possible. Is this why they are using the ingredients above, in order to not have to use ewax? PS the ewax Croda supplied was called " Crodex " Thank you so much for any and all assistance. Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 >I made up some lotion yesterday, but after some discussion with a collegue >think they are right and the ewax (croda's ) is the reason for it being so >oily. I really want to avoid that feel if possible. Is this why they are >using the ingredients above, in order to not have to use ewax? PS the ewax >Croda supplied was called " Crodex " Never heard of Crodex, and there's no such beast in Croda's catalogue, so perhaps you are right and you are using something totally different. One of the mystery " e waxes " perhaps. If you were using Polawax though, it's not the culprit. It's more likely your oil percentage is too high or maybe some other ingredient in your formulation. Polawax doesn't make emulsions feel greasy at all. And if you use too much I still don't think it would do that, it would just make the product very thick. I compared a lotion made with polawax to one made with similar ingredients to what you mentioned, and I found the feel the same, not greasy at all. Perhaps if you post your lotion formula the list can help determine why it's so oily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 3, 2001 Report Share Posted July 3, 2001 >Hello >I wonder if someone would be able to shed some light on this lotion ingredient list for me. > >The ingredients are listed as follows: >Water; Extracts of Arnica, Hypericum & Calendula in Canola oil with Naturox(anti-oxidant), Peppermint oil, Cetearyl alcohol, Glycerol stearate & PEG100 stearate, Beeswax, Glycerin, Propyl paraben, Methyl Paraben. > >OK now I know what the methyl and Propyl parabens are, but what are the Cetearyl alcohol, glycerol stearate and PEG100 stearate used for in this lotion. First, Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100 Stearate is an emulsifier blend that is found in many emulsions. It is very similar to Emulsifying Wax NF in performance and purpose but it is not Emulsifying Wax NF. The Cetearyl Alcohol helps to thicken and should be considered part of the emulsifying system. Besides not being a valid ingredient list for a personal care product, the most interesting thing about this list of ingredients is Naturox. Naturox is a " a synergistic blend of natural mixed tocopherols and rosemary extract, natural citric acid chelator, and mono- and diglycerides for effective dispersion. " http://www.kemin.com/technical/natural-antioxidant.pdf > I hope this hasn't been covered before, I did go through the archives and found any references to these a bit confusing. Would one of our generous chemists please explain them to me in some detail. I don't mind if they prefer to do it off list if this has been covered, or if they can give me some indication of what the topic of discussion was where they previously discussed it or approximate date PLEASE! I don't recall this being discussed before. >I made up some lotion yesterday, but after some discussion with a collegue think they are right and the ewax (croda's ) is the reason for it being so oily. Not true. >I really want to avoid that feel if possible. Is this why they are using the ingredients above, in order to not have to use ewax? What does your formula look like? >PS the ewax Croda supplied was called " Crodex " There are several " Crodex " raw materials sold by Croda and none of them are Emulsifying Wax NF or Polawax. The closest would be Crodex N which is Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Ceteareth-20. Maurice ------------------------ Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.ConvergentCosmetics.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Hi Maurice, thnak you sooo much for your reply! Ok so in short they are using Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100 Stearate as the emulsifier instead of an ewax, right. then they are adding to that Ceteryl alcohol (in place of stearic acid?) to thicken the lotion. Instead of citric acid they are using Naturox. Am I following you? lol The ewax Croda supplied me with is called Cordex A (PAST) EM1424025UK <What does your formula look like?> this was the formula: 150g cocobutter 150g Grapeseed Oil 30g Glycerin 30g Crodex A 30g Stearic Acid 2.5g Cirtic Acid 600g water Do you think the cocobutter is too high They suppleid me with the following as preservative for this lotion. ABIOL/IMIDAZOLDINYL METHYL PARABEN PROPYL PARABEN But no info as to what percentage of each (if all) need to be added. From past posts I see that both the Methyl paraben and propyl paraben need to be included, but also noticed that most time s either you or recommended adding germall (could have been Germaben?) also. What do you suggest? Many thanks again REALLY! for all the assistance. Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Deb Considering that close to 40% of your formula is fats and oils you can't help but to have an oily feeling product. Additionally, you probably do need the citric acid either unless you know what the pH of your product is and is supposed to be. You may want to increase the Crodex A to as much as 5% and use cetyl alcohol instead of stearic acid to help thicken your formula. Try reducing the oils to 15%. You can always add talc to the formula to fill in for some of the deleted oils. Should you find that you need to thicken this formula you can use hydroxyethylcellulose like Natrosol 250 HR or Natrosol 250 HHR at 0.50-1.00%. The HHR grade has a higher viscosity than the HR grade. Too much Natrosol will make the product snotty looking or slimy feeling. In time, you will find that most commercial creams and lotions minimize the amount of the oils and lipidic ingredients and will use water soluble/dispersible ingredients where possible to thicken the products. They are more efficient thickeners and do not leave the product feeling heavy or oily. Remember a little bit of oil will go a long way in a product. Regarding the use of Germaben II, Maurice and I recommend this material because it is easy to use and is a synergistic blend of parabens with diazolidinyl urea. Another preservative that I recommend is Phenonip, which is phenoxyethanol with parabens. Both of these are very good preservative systems for topical products. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Re: Ingredient list Hi Maurice, thnak you sooo much for your reply! Ok so in short they are using Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG-100 Stearate as the emulsifier instead of an ewax, right. then they are adding to that Ceteryl alcohol (in place of stearic acid?) to thicken the lotion. Instead of citric acid they are using Naturox. Am I following you? lol The ewax Croda supplied me with is called Cordex A (PAST) EM1424025UK <What does your formula look like?> this was the formula: 150g cocobutter 150g Grapeseed Oil 30g Glycerin 30g Crodex A 30g Stearic Acid 2.5g Cirtic Acid 600g water Do you think the cocobutter is too high They suppleid me with the following as preservative for this lotion. ABIOL/IMIDAZOLDINYL METHYL PARABEN PROPYL PARABEN But no info as to what percentage of each (if all) need to be added. From past posts I see that both the Methyl paraben and propyl paraben need to be included, but also noticed that most time s either you or recommended adding germall (could have been Germaben?) also. What do you suggest? Many thanks again REALLY! for all the assistance. Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Thanks for the reply. I will reduce the oils and try as you suggested :-) Could you maybe shed soem light on what the ABIOL/IMIDAZOLIDINYL that Croda sent me is for ;-) Thanks Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 > Thanks for the reply. I will reduce the oils and try as you suggested :-) > > Could you maybe shed soem light on what the ABIOL/IMIDAZOLIDINYL that Croda sent me is for ;-) > The INCI name for Abiol is Imidazolidinyl Urea which is the same as Germall 115. For information on Germall 115, go to: http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html The INCI name for Crodex A is Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Lauryl Sulfate. Just curious, where do you live? UK?? Maurice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Deb, Before there was diazolidinyl urea there was imidazolidinyl urea. This was known as Germall 115 from Sutton Labs. In the early 1980s Germall II, olidinyl urea was launched. It is just another preservative that is now generically available. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Re: Ingredient list Thanks for the reply. I will reduce the oils and try as you suggested :-) Could you maybe shed soem light on what the ABIOL/IMIDAZOLIDINYL that Croda sent me is for ;-) Thanks Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Thanks ;-) Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 HI Maurice, No South Africa, Cape Town Pouring with rain freezing my buns off Cape Town today lol. Thanks for all the info I am off to peek there now :-) Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Maurice that site is fantastic, THANK YOU! I found all I needed to know and more lol. I am still there but had to say thanks quickly. Just two silly questions, they refer to creams and lotions as seperate items, with seperate typical usae levels of germall 115 and the parabens, why do they distinguish between the two? What differentiates a cream from a lotion other than thickness? And what exactly is a gram-negative bateria, if it's not to silly ;-) Debs http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Deb, Gram negative bacteria are those that do not take up the Gram stain when typing bacteria. Examples of Gram - are Pseudomonads and Staph. These are generally your pathogens. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Re: Re: Ingredient list Maurice that site is fantastic, THANK YOU! I found all I needed to know and more lol. I am still there but had to say thanks quickly. Just two silly questions, they refer to creams and lotions as seperate items, with seperate typical usae levels of germall 115 and the parabens, why do they distinguish between the two? What differentiates a cream from a lotion other than thickness? And what exactly is a gram-negative bateria, if it's not to silly ;-) Debs http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 4, 2001 Report Share Posted July 4, 2001 Looks like I need to go back to school lol. Completely over my head VBG. Where online if anywhere, can I research things like the gram negative bacteria and find info on these " technical terms " lol. Thank you again for all your help Both of you! Debs Re: Re: Ingredient list Maurice that site is fantastic, THANK YOU! I found all I needed to know and more lol. I am still there but had to say thanks quickly. Just two silly questions, they refer to creams and lotions as seperate items, with seperate typical usae levels of germall 115 and the parabens, why do they distinguish between the two? What differentiates a cream from a lotion other than thickness? And what exactly is a gram-negative bateria, if it's not to silly ;-) Debs http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 Debbie, if you have the seperate preservative rather than a blend, we have used the following for years without problems 0.30% Abiol, 0.15% Methyl Paraben and 0.1% Propyl Paraben, with oil phases between 10 and 20%. Dave Eastham > Debs > Re: Re: Ingredient list > > Maurice that site is fantastic, THANK YOU! > I found all I needed to know and more lol. I am still there but had to > say thanks quickly. > > Just two silly questions, they refer to creams and lotions as seperate > items, with seperate typical usae levels of germall 115 and the parabens, > why do they distinguish between the two? What differentiates a cream from a > lotion other than thickness? > And what exactly is a gram-negative bateria, if it's not to silly ;-) > > Debs > http://www.ispcorp.com/products/hairskin/preserve/pres1.html > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 5, 2001 Report Share Posted July 5, 2001 thanks Dave :-) Debs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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