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As my supplemental post to your " ESLD description " post the other night said it

is very confusing, because ESLD is a pathological finding, and everyone who has

cirrhosis confirmed by needle biopsy has ESLD, or end stage liver disease. I am

positive you mean what some doctors refer to as " true end stage symptoms " , or

" terminal phase " , or " end of life " . The reason cirrhosis is called end stage

liver disease is that it is the permanant or " terminal " stage of all liver

diseases (no cure)or irreversable stage. The liver is such an amazing organ,

being able to heal itself and re-grow tissue, in a way that no other organ can

do, and this

sort of explains this label. In the final stage of liver disease, cirrhosis,

scar tissue completely separates liver lobules from each other, and this is full

blown cirrhosis, or end stage liver disease. Since there isn't a cure for this,

a liver transplant becomes the only treatment option besides " palliative " or

" comfort care " .

My loved one Ardis did infact lose a lot of bowel control when she was close to

dying of ESLD, but then since I am also on lactulose, I have had many close

calls now, and can totally see how this happened. As her caretaker, after she

was discharged from university hospital to me in March -06, I gave up on washing

underwear, and started putting " Depends " on her. This made things so much easier

for both of us. Bladder was much less a problem, but thats the best I can do for

an answer. There are some things that hospice should be able to tell you about

what to look for when your loved one heads down that road. Some that I remember

were-: much less urine output, much more sleeping, very groggy when awake, no

appetite, labored breathing, mottling color on the legs, cold to the touch, and

finally no blood pressure. Ardis stopped reading on the blood pressure machines

the afternoon of the 2nd, but did not pass away until 1:00 am on August 3rd,

2006. Hope this

helps, love Bobby

long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

RE: Bodily functions

Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of control of

bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of ESLD? Is this

something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is it just yet another

symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated. Hope all are doing as well

as can be expected.

Hugs........ .....

Diane C. from TN

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Thanks Bobby.  I always appreciate your input.  You have such a wealth of

knowledge.  I pray I can be only a small percentage as helpful to others after

having gone through this with Terry as are you after having gone through it with

Ardis.  I hope you're having a pretty good day.

Much love,

Diane

RE: Bodily functions

Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of control of

bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of ESLD? Is this

something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is it just yet another

symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated. Hope all are doing as well as

can be expected.

Hugs........ .....

Diane C. from TN

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That is interesting. I wonder then if it is more related to liver failure than

exclusively end of life?

long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

Re: Bodily functions

Hi Diane,

During the last couple of months before my transplant, I had more

episodes of losing control of bodily function than I care to admit. It

was a big joke between my husband and me. We would laugh about it. I

was not on lactolose, but I would lose it both ways (bowel and bladder).

Penny

>

> Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of

control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of

ESLD? Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is

it just yet another symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated.

Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

>

> Hugs........ .....

> Diane C. from TN

>

>

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That is interesting. I wonder then if it is more related to liver failure than

exclusively end of life?

long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

Re: Bodily functions

Hi Diane,

During the last couple of months before my transplant, I had more

episodes of losing control of bodily function than I care to admit. It

was a big joke between my husband and me. We would laugh about it. I

was not on lactolose, but I would lose it both ways (bowel and bladder).

Penny

>

> Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of

control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of

ESLD? Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is

it just yet another symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated.

Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

>

> Hugs........ .....

> Diane C. from TN

>

>

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Penny,

Thanks so much for responding.  Terry is on lactulose, but I'm just not

convinced that it is the root of the problem.  A few times lately he has

urinated in the bathroom floor and doesn't seem to know why.  Then, last night,

he both urinated and emptied his bowels in the floor.  I'm just really convinced

it's a progression of the liver disease and possibly even the encephalopathy. 

Thanks again for your input.  I hope everything is going well for you.  God

bless!

Hugs...............

Diane

Re: Bodily functions

Hi Diane,

During the last couple of months before my transplant, I had more

episodes of losing control of bodily function than I care to admit. It

was a big joke between my husband and me. We would laugh about it. I

was not on lactolose, but I would lose it both ways (bowel and bladder).

Penny

>

> Hey group!  I have a somewhat delicate question for you.  Can loss of

control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of

ESLD?  Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is

it just yet another symptom to expect?  Any help would be appreciated. 

Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

>

> Hugs........ .....

> Diane C. from TN

>

>

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Diane,

I think that is probably more from the encephalopathy. I caught my wife once

trying to go in the kitchen. Then when I led her in the bathroom she tried to

use the sink.

That night though she was very very disorientated and ended up in the ER by

ambulance.

MaC

diane chandler wrote: Penny,

Thanks so much for responding. Terry is on lactulose, but I'm just not

convinced that it is the root of the problem. A few times lately he has

urinated in the bathroom floor and doesn't seem to know why. Then, last night,

he both urinated and emptied his bowels in the floor. I'm just really convinced

it's a progression of the liver disease and possibly even the encephalopathy.

Thanks again for your input. I hope everything is going well for you. God

bless!

Hugs...............

Diane

Re: Bodily functions

Hi Diane,

During the last couple of months before my transplant, I had more

episodes of losing control of bodily function than I care to admit. It

was a big joke between my husband and me. We would laugh about it. I

was not on lactolose, but I would lose it both ways (bowel and bladder).

Penny

>

> Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of

control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of

ESLD? Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is

it just yet another symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated.

Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

>

> Hugs........ .....

> Diane C. from TN

>

>

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Penny,

 

I seem to be doing that also.....just know to one to laugh with me...hehe lyncia

Subject: Re: Bodily functions

To: livercirrhosissupport

Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 1:15 PM

Hi Diane,

During the last couple of months before my transplant, I had more

episodes of losing control of bodily function than I care to admit. It

was a big joke between my husband and me. We would laugh about it. I

was not on lactolose, but I would lose it both ways (bowel and bladder).

Penny

>

> Hey group!  I have a somewhat delicate question for you.  Can loss of

control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of

ESLD?  Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is

it just yet another symptom to expect?  Any help would be appreciated. 

Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

>

> Hugs........ .....

> Diane C. from TN

>

>

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I agree, thanks Bobby. This somewhat puts my mind at ease.....for now at least.

:(

Subject: Re: RE: Bodily functions

To: livercirrhosissupport

Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:45 AM

Thanks Bobby.  I always appreciate your input.  You have such a

wealth of knowledge.  I pray I can be only a small percentage as helpful to

others after having gone through this with Terry as are you after having gone

through it with Ardis.  I hope you're having a pretty good day.

Much love,

Diane

RE: Bodily functions

Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can loss of control of

bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom of ESLD? Is this

something that needs to be reported to the doctor or is it just yet another

symptom to expect? Any help would be appreciated. Hope all are doing as well as

can be expected.

Hugs........ .....

Diane C. from TN

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Thank you Penny!  You are the greatest.  They just told me that my meld is down

to 16 now.....hehe

 

Lyncia

Subject: Re: Bodily functions

To: livercirrhosissupport

Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:04 PM

Lyncia,

I'll laugh with you...lol. It's good to laugh. No sense in getting

upset over something you can't control at times. Laughing is good

for your health.

Penny

> >

> > Hey group!  I have a somewhat delicate question for you.  Can

loss of

> control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom

of

> ESLD?  Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or

is

> it just yet another symptom to expect?  Any help would be

appreciated. 

> Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

> >

> > Hugs........ .....

> > Diane C. from TN

> >

> >

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I know I'm new at all this but what is a meld and what does 16 mean?thanks,

From: preciouspenny3 <preciouspenny3@ yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Bodily functions

To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:04 PM

Lyncia,

I'll laugh with you...lol. It's good to laugh. No sense in getting

upset over something you can't control at times. Laughing is good

for your health.

Penny

> >

> > Hey group!  I have a somewhat delicate question for you.  Can

loss of

> control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom

of

> ESLD?  Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or

is

> it just yet another symptom to expect?  Any help would be

appreciated. 

> Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

> >

> > Hugs........ .....

> > Diane C. from TN

> >

> >

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, MELD is a scoring system used to predict mortality in end stage liver

patients, and is used as a tool to decide who gets a liver first. The score uses

your last lab work and includes the Creatnine, the INR anf the BILI T. Here is a

link you can plug these numbers into to see your MELD.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/meld/mayomodel6.html

The score goes from 6 to 40, with 40 being very very gravely ill and maybe only

a week to live. lov bobby aka rwe

long life, old age, everything good-Apache prayer

________________________________

To: livercirrhosissupport

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 10:53:55 AM

Subject: Re: Re: Bodily functions

I know I'm new at all this but what is a meld and what does 16 mean?thanks,

From: preciouspenny3 <preciouspenny3@ yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: Bodily functions

To: livercirrhosissuppo rtyahoogroups (DOT) com

Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 11:04 PM

Lyncia,

I'll laugh with you...lol. It's good to laugh. No sense in getting

upset over something you can't control at times. Laughing is good

for your health.

Penny

> >

> > Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can

loss of

> control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom

of

> ESLD? Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or

is

> it just yet another symptom to expect? Any help would be

appreciated.

> Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

> >

> > Hugs........ .....

> > Diane C. from TN

> >

> >

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We haven't had any real groaners on here for quite a while. I can't

remember any or I would pass one on. Even if you repeat one, I probably

wouldn't remember as my memory is getting reallybad. Is it time for some?

Jan H

On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 9:04 PM, preciouspenny3 wrote:

> Lyncia,

>

> I'll laugh with you...lol. It's good to laugh. No sense in getting

> upset over something you can't control at times. Laughing is good

> for your health.

>

> Penny

>

>

> > >

> > > Hey group! I have a somewhat delicate question for you. Can

> loss of

> > control of bodily functions (i.e. bowel and bladder) be a symptom

> of

> > ESLD? Is this something that needs to be reported to the doctor or

> is

> > it just yet another symptom to expect? Any help would be

> appreciated.

> > Hope all are doing as well as can be expected.

> > >

> > > Hugs........ .....

> > > Diane C. from TN

> > >

> > >

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