Re: thyroid dysfunction

[Guest guest]

The patient needs to have a free T3

> blood test (I don't mean she doesn't have to pay!!! Total T3 is no

good it

> needs to be free T3) as T3 in the " business end " . Her TSH is

dropping

> because she is having too much T4. Thyroxine (T4), the usually

prescribed

> treatment, has to be converted to T3 and some people can't make the

> conversion. It's really simple they should be prescibed natural

Armour

> thyroid which contains T3 and T4 instead of thyroxine. It makes all

the

> difference. The dose is calculated on her blood tests with a review

after a

> month or so by which time she will be feeling better and her TSH

will be

> back within normal range and her T3 which will have been low back

up.

Dear lind,

My understanding of WTS is that there are no blood tests at all that

can accurately tell what is going on in the tissue rather than the

blood and that 80% of the T4 to T3 conversion happens in the

cells.Testing Free T3 tells how much there is only in the blood.

Cellular T4 to T3 slows when the body undergoes stress and should

return to normal once the stress is over but in some cases does not

but blood tests do not show this. The condition is considered to be a

problem of temperature control on a cellular level since everthing

that happens in cellular metabolism has an optimum temp, below which

all sorts of go slows start to occur. It is recommended that the best

way of testing for WTS is by average body temperature over the day.If

low and sx are present, then despite blood tests, the px may have

WTS. Also Armour is not recommended for tx of WTS as the cellular T4

is already high and apparently the best way of resetting the cellular

metabolism is to give T3 only. Hence anomalous results when treated

with Armour.

As far as alternatives to hormone tx are concerned, it would be

interesting to better understand how Centella asiatica works -

anyone? It is one of the few herbs I am aware of that has a

reputation for helping hypothyroid sx. Since Kelp supposedly feeds

the thyroid itself it would not necessarily help in WTS.However as

herbalists, we should be open to the probability that herbs

especially adaptogens and alteratives are undoubtedly capable of

clearing out and resetting balances on a tissue level, and indeed

Kelp may do so as well as acting on the thyroid itself...

I have a big interest in how all this relates to PMS, Menopause,

Postnatal Depression and even Bipolar disorders.The website mentioned

refers to possible links between WTS and Fibromyalgia and CFS as well

as Infertility, but no mention of potential links to the

above....anyone??? Also what happens if we turn the temperature up

using Capscum or Amoracia???

All the best,

Noreen

[Guest guest]

Hi Noreen, you are right in what you say and my account was too simplistic.

I think the whole endocrine field is fascinating and I find it the more so

with Dr Lapraz's theory of the endocrine. Let me expand if I may. It is

perfectly true that many people have clinical signs of being hypothyroid

but have a normal TSH. I think any doctors who work in this field agree but

it is not universally agreed in orthodox medicine. The TSH test is

absolutely not a gold standard for thyroid problems and I have had many

cases where this has been true. The temperature test along with clinical

judgement and a trial of Armour thyroid are useful but obviously not if the

T4 is high, if it is they would be better with just takingT3 (and sustained

release is best because of the short half life) which is available. The

reason why there is often a discrepancy between lab tests and clinical

presentation are many here are a few: hormone resistance, autoimmune damage

to receptors, competitive binding of sites due to pollutants, defective

pituitary feedback mechanisms because of differences between T3 pituitary

and peripheral receptors. Intolerance to very small doses of thyroid

hormone in patients who are clinically hypothyriod may suggest

hypoadrenalism.......(in which case licorice!!! Easy isn't it)!

However the TSH does need to be taken and retested if a trial of Armour

thyroid is used to see that it is not dropping off the scale.

Now, not everyone fits the category of benefitting from Armour thyroid

despite the fact that it isn't a synthetic. Many people have thyroid

resistance just as they have insulin resistance. I suppose my resistance is

the syndrome idea.......but its just semantics.......doesn't matter. If one

looks to see why people have thyroid resistance and yes its a cellular

problem, it may be that they can't convert because not only do they need to

have adequate selenium as I mentioned before but also zinc, which I didn't

mention. So many people are deficient in these minerals so that is a

starting point before any hormone treatment. (In those people who are not

already on thyroxine). Both these minerals help the cellular signalling. I

have seen patients who were clinically hypothyroid have a course of Armour

which seems to switch something as they don't need to

continue.........these ones can probably get correction through concomitant

herbs and minerals etc. One of the problems with modern day life is

pollution.....from heavy metals and radiation. The reason why quality

seaweed helps the thyroid is not only the iodine, of course but the fact

that it chelates heavy metals and radioactive elements from the system

which may be interfering with proper thyroid function. I say quality for

good reason as seaweed from polluted waters carries the very things e.g.

mercury and more that one wishes to chelate. Interesting stuff eh?

All the best

lind B

[Guest guest]

Also what happens if we turn the temperature up

using Capscum or Amoracia???

All the best,

Noreen

I have had some good results with a couple of patients with low thyroid symptoms

with using hot herbs, such as Capsicum, Xanthoxylum and ginger, as well as

things like Centella.

I find the whole area of endocrine disorders fascinating too - the more you find

oiut the more complex it gets!

Thanks for all the info so far on this list.

Sara

[Guest guest]

Please forgive a query from someone who has been off list for a few days &

is just catching up. What is Armour?? How is it produced ?? How does one

get hold of it ??

Please forgive my ignorance, but I have never heard of a natural thyroid

supplement before & am intrigued.

All the lurid details please

Love

[Guest guest]

Hello , lurid details re Armour thyroid for you........well its porcine

derived unlike synthetic thyroxine and Armour is the brand name. The T3

liothyronine is approximately four times as potent as T4 levothyroxine.

Hence is useful for those individuals who cannot convert. It is available

on prescription. Sorry not herbal!

All the best

lind

[Guest guest]

Thanks lind - I haven't missed out on anything herbally wonderful or

whizzy then (I thought perhaps not).

Hope the piggys don't mind too much!

[Guest guest]

Robyn,

Sorry i am a bit late with this reply and you have probably done it any way,

but it may be worth while getting the Free T3 levels checked (or suggestion

to GP) as they are more biochemically active than Free T4 and may be causing

some of the anomalies you are seeing

Liz Pitt

MSc FIBMS MNIMH