Guest guest Posted January 4, 1980 Report Share Posted January 4, 1980 whilst everything you say about TCm is absolutely valid i think the problem western patients have with talking to a doctor through an interpreter is the lack of an important part of the therapeutic relationship.Healing is not a one way or passive process.patients like talking about themselves - its often the first chance theyve had of someone to tell everything to. How often has a patient left a consultation with us saying they feel so much better just having had someone listening to them - whatever the strenghts of TCm so many people do not feel they get this empathy in a consultation if it is conducted through a third person. festive greetings to all,annette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2003 Report Share Posted November 25, 2003 Dear Helen, All the doctors of the company are fully qualified Chinese doctors their qualifications relate to the title of doctor given by the Chinese medical system of trainig.The traing is long and thorough and indeed some of the doctors are professors as well. Most will not have MD western doctor qualifications but many modern diagnostic tests are used in Traditional Chinese Hospitals the doctors expertise will reflect this. An initial consultation form is filled out by the patinet first before going to see the doctor and would include, age, date of birth, allergies, etc. Please note the TCM diagnosis is not the same as western and therefore different parameters are used to assess the patient in particular the experience of the doctor is very important and may pick up problems not discernable by other methods. Lorraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 22, 2003 Report Share Posted December 22, 2003 Dear Helen, first of all, interpreters are normally used for courtcases, police interviews and I am sure other legal issues, so why not in medicine? It is a perfectly common way of human interaction where two people do not speak the same language. Secondly, can you imagine what a fully qualified doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine, with 7 years study (full-time I assume) and 15 years experience (again I assume that this may include full time hospital work), will think about a qualified Western Medical Herbalist with no experience and 3 or 4 year part-time study and no hospital training whatsoever? We do not take pulse, tongue or urine diagnosis, and so rely almost completely on the patients own account and perception of their illness. I often wonder how accurate this is in fact. It seems to me that a pulse diagnosis, taken by an experienced and thoroughly trained practitioner, can tell a lot more about past medical history and give a more accurate diagnosis about underlying conditions than any of my many questions. We also do not have any training in herbal formulas, or the synergistic action of herbs, as traditional western herbal medicine relies on simples. Nor do we have any knowledge of classical texts, and we do not learn about the older traditional ways of western herbalism. Furthermore there is no understanding of the energetics of the herbs, or of the consecutive actions of herbs taken one after the other, or of balancing the different actions of the herbs so as not to harm the patient or cause further imbalance in the system. I think that a doctor of TCM would not be very impressed. Can we please stop confusing professional envy, or fear of loosing business, with our own ignorance of other traditions, which have been in use for thousands of years, in parts of the world much larger than Europe. Respect for other traditions as valid medical systems is due. Thank you. Marilena Hettema. > >Reply-To: ukherbal-list >To: <ukherbal-list > >Subject: Re: Dr & Herbs >Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 16:43:11 -0000 > >Dear Lorraine, > >In Glasgow we have several Dr & Herbs stores, and quite a number of the >patients I see have been to them first. What they report is very >concerning - firstly all the consultations seem to have been carried out >via >an interpreter, and secondly none had a thorough case history taken, nor >were they questioned on any previous medical history. According to some >they >were not even asked their age. Obviously I can't judge second hand and >would >need to go for a consultation myself to establish if this is an accurate >picture - perhaps these are isolated bad experiences. Also, the use of the >term 'Dr' (though we all know it can refer to a doctorate in anything) by >the implication of common usage gives the public the impression that the >practitioners have a recognised orthodox medical degree; is this the case >or >does it refer to a qualification in Traditional Chinese Medicine? - this is >something several patients have asked me and I meant to ask in one of their >stores for clarification, but have never got round to doing. Hope you can >reassure me on this point, > >Helen. > Re: KAVA banned or not ? > > > > Dear > > I am closely involved with Dr & Herbs and can assure >you > > that all the doctors they employ are fully qualified from China, there >are > > strict criteria about them working for the company e.g. minimum 7 years > > study, 15 years experience, age etc. indeed many are professors in their > > field for more info see their website: > > > > www.drandherbs.com > > > > Lorraine. > > > > > > > > List Owner > > > > > > > > Graham White, MNIMH > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Dear Marilena, Sorry, I would have to disagree with most of this. 1. Interpreters should be used only for the service of the patient / client, not the practitioner! In the examples you give of interpreters being used by the police etc this is a service provided for clients who don't speak the language of the country, not the other way round - do you think it would be appropriate for a policeman who didn't speak English to expect to be permitted conduct all his/her interviews through an interpreter? 2. Interpreters must be properly qualified; judging by the brief conversation I had with one recently in a Glasgow Dr & Herbs their English was of a poor standard not nearly sufficient for interpreting accurately. 3. A verbal history doesn't just serve to establish medical facts as you seem to imply; what the patient says and the language they use gives a huge insight into the person's personality, energetics, and soul/spirit; in fact i would say it was crucial in establishing the energetic picture. You say we " rely almost completely on the patient's own account and perception of their illness " - I would certainly hope so, as this is by far the best source of information! 4. I assume you were speaking for yourself when you say you have no training in the synergistic action of herbs, formulae or herb energetics? I certainly did, although more would have been useful, and I continue to develop my understanding of synergy and energetics as I practise. And traditional British herbal medicine is very much a tradition of polypharmacy rather than simples as you claim. 5. My original concern about Dr & Herbs is based on (1) the evidence of patients I have seen who have used their service - most are very dissatisfied and have received innapropriate and ineffective treatment, and (2) on the fact that to use the term 'Dr' is misleading to the British public whether or not it is intended as such. I would like to say that in the Glasgow area we have several independant Chinese herbalists who speak good English and have good results with patients, and I am not criticising Chinese medicine in general. Finally, please refrain from accusing people of ignorance, envy, or lack of respect. Helen. Re: KAVA banned or not ? > > > > > > > Dear > > > I am closely involved with Dr & Herbs and can assure > >you > > > that all the doctors they employ are fully qualified from China, there > >are > > > strict criteria about them working for the company e.g. minimum 7 years > > > study, 15 years experience, age etc. indeed many are professors in their > > > field for more info see their website: > > > > > > www.drandherbs.com > > > > > > Lorraine. > > > > > > > > > > > > List Owner > > > > > > > > > > > > Graham White, MNIMH > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 23, 2003 Report Share Posted December 23, 2003 Please excuse the lazy reply method. thankyou Helen for this, I agree with what you say and have more to say on this subject, but not before Yule! I think it's a really important topic to debate and so Marielena's comments are welcome. I look forward to more contributions and opinion but I would echo Annette Wass's plea for a less personalised approach, we can demonstrate respect for colleagues and fundamentally disagree, the two are not incompatible. My hat is going in the ring next week, but I couldn't resist a quick comment now. Bright blessings for the midwinter festival Jill St Albans. Re: KAVA banned or not ? > > > > > > > > > > Dear > > > > I am closely involved with Dr & Herbs and can assure > > >you > > > > that all the doctors they employ are fully qualified from China, there > > >are > > > > strict criteria about them working for the company e.g. minimum 7 > years > > > > study, 15 years experience, age etc. indeed many are professors in > their > > > > field for more info see their website: > > > > > > > > www.drandherbs.com > > > > > > > > Lorraine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > List Owner > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Graham White, MNIMH > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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