Re: Papaya seeds? Walnuts? Cook them?

December 14, 2003

tom,

as far as the enzymes in papaya go, my thought is that yes you will

lose some (maybe all) of the enzymes, but will also partially

breakdown some of the food through heat.

i think that cooked and raw food both have benefit, and most people

need a mix of the two--at least this was true of the groups price

studied.

therefore we don't have always to eat things raw (even fruit).

personally, i eat avacado sauteed in coconut oil and love it, but

when i eat it raw, i get gas.

as for the walnuts, i don't know if heating will oxidize them--i am

not so solid on the science there. but i always thought that it was

really the high heat (300 or 400, or more) that caused oxidation, and

if you basically dry things out at low temps (150 or so) the fats are

still healthy.

i can tell you that i make walnuts this way and they are amazing!!!

they are so tender and delicate--they really melt in my mouth. my

body tells me that this is a very healthy food.

cric johnson

- In , " Tom " <cassiusdio@g...> wrote:

> Interesting! I was about to ask, I've heard that papaya seeds are

> nutritious but how do you eat them? Papaya pepper is a good idea.

>

> However, the recipe in NT mentions that papaya is rich in enzymes.

> Then it says to bake overnight at 150° to make the pepper. Does

anyone

> else see a problem here? I do.

>

> Similarly, the soaking and then " crisping " of walnuts strikes me as

> illogical. Walnuts are supposedly very susceptible to rancidity and

> should be refrigerated. Well, baking at 150° for hours seems like

it's

> going to oxidize the PUFA (Omega 3s especially) in the walnuts. But

> then we're told to put them in the fridge after crisping to keep

them

> fresh...what the heck is up with that?

>

> Can anyone explain this?

>

> Tom

>

> --- In , " Robin Stone " <robin@r...>

wrote:

> > Hello,

> >

> > My name is Robin & I'm new to the list. Glad to be here! I love

papaya

> > best just as it is (peeled and seeds removed). It'll work best

to cut

> > the papaya in half lengthwise. Then remove the black round seeds

from

> > the middle; proposed a great idea with making " pepper "

out of

> > the seeds. Sally provides instructions on page 157 of NT. You

can then

> > either eat the papaya with a spoon (if it's not so large that you

don't

> > want an entire half at one time!), or slice it again lengthwise,

take

> > peel off with a paring knife, and cube it. Very nice served in a

bowl

> > this way. Also, I bet some pomegranate seeds on top would just be

> > fantastic. -R

> >

> > Robin Stone, MS, RD

> > Robin Stone Nutrition

> > (828) 252-7408

> > robin@r...

> > <http://www.robinstonenutrition.com> www.robinstonenutrition.com

> > papaya?

> >

> > Does anyone know what to do with a papaya? I don't think I ever

even saw

> >

> > one before. This is huge! I'm not even sure how to know if it's

ripe, or

> >

> > how best to cut it..

> >

> > -

> >

December 14, 2003

Why not just dry them at about 90-100 degrees? I do that after soaking and

the nuts/seeds become light and crispy.

Michele

>From: " Tom " <cassiusdio@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Papaya seeds? Walnuts? Cook them?

>Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 18:17:18 -0000

>

>Interesting! I was about to ask, I've heard that papaya seeds are

>nutritious but how do you eat them? Papaya pepper is a good idea.

>

>However, the recipe in NT mentions that papaya is rich in enzymes.

>Then it says to bake overnight at 150° to make the pepper. Does anyone

>else see a problem here? I do.

>

>Similarly, the soaking and then " crisping " of walnuts strikes me as

>illogical. Walnuts are supposedly very susceptible to rancidity and

>should be refrigerated. Well, baking at 150° for hours seems like it's

>going to oxidize the PUFA (Omega 3s especially) in the walnuts. But

>then we're told to put them in the fridge after crisping to keep them

>fresh...what the heck is up with that?

>

>Can anyone explain this?

>

>Tom

>

> > Hello,

> >

> > My name is Robin & I'm new to the list. Glad to be here! I love papaya

> > best just as it is (peeled and seeds removed). It'll work best to cut

> > the papaya in half lengthwise. Then remove the black round seeds from

> > the middle; proposed a great idea with making " pepper " out of

> > the seeds. Sally provides instructions on page 157 of NT. You can then

> > either eat the papaya with a spoon (if it's not so large that you don't

> > want an entire half at one time!), or slice it again lengthwise, take

> > peel off with a paring knife, and cube it. Very nice served in a bowl

> > this way. Also, I bet some pomegranate seeds on top would just be

> > fantastic. -R

> >

> > Robin Stone, MS, RD

> > Robin Stone Nutrition

> > (828) 252-7408

> > robin@r...

> > <http://www.robinstonenutrition.com> www.robinstonenutrition.com

> > papaya?

> >

> > Does anyone know what to do with a papaya? I don't think I ever even saw

> >

> > one before. This is huge! I'm not even sure how to know if it's ripe, or

> >

> > how best to cut it..

> >

> > -

> >

December 14, 2003

Tom,

when i made my pepper i just left em out on bench a day or 2 to dry.

_____

From: Tom [mailto:cassiusdio@...]

Sent: Monday, 15 December 2003 4:17 AM

Subject: Papaya seeds? Walnuts? Cook them?

Interesting! I was about to ask, I've heard that papaya seeds are

nutritious but how do you eat them? Papaya pepper is a good idea.

However, the recipe in NT mentions that papaya is rich in enzymes.

Then it says to bake overnight at 150° to make the pepper. Does anyone

else see a problem here? I do.

Similarly, the soaking and then " crisping " of walnuts strikes me as

illogical. Walnuts are supposedly very susceptible to rancidity and

should be refrigerated. Well, baking at 150° for hours seems like it's

going to oxidize the PUFA (Omega 3s especially) in the walnuts. But

then we're told to put them in the fridge after crisping to keep them

fresh...what the heck is up with that?

Can anyone explain this?

Tom

> Hello,

>

> My name is Robin & I'm new to the list. Glad to be here! I love papaya

> best just as it is (peeled and seeds removed). It'll work best to cut

> the papaya in half lengthwise. Then remove the black round seeds from

> the middle; proposed a great idea with making " pepper " out of

> the seeds. Sally provides instructions on page 157 of NT. You can then

> either eat the papaya with a spoon (if it's not so large that you don't

> want an entire half at one time!), or slice it again lengthwise, take

> peel off with a paring knife, and cube it. Very nice served in a bowl

> this way. Also, I bet some pomegranate seeds on top would just be

> fantastic. -R

>

> Robin Stone, MS, RD

> Robin Stone Nutrition

> (828) 252-7408

> robin@r...

> <http://www.robinstonenutrition.com> www.robinstonenutrition.com

> papaya?

>

> Does anyone know what to do with a papaya? I don't think I ever even saw

>

> one before. This is huge! I'm not even sure how to know if it's ripe, or

>

> how best to cut it..

>

> -

>

December 14, 2003

Thanks, Cric. Well, I'm no raw-foodist. I cook at least half of my

food. My point is, papaya seeds (which I've eaten raw; they have a

very sharp, unpleasant taste) are said to have lots of enzymes.

Because they don't taste great, the sole and express reason we are

eating them is for the enzymes. If all enzymes are destroyed at 118Â°,

why on earth would Sally recommend baking overnight at 150Â°? It seems

to be an oversight on her part.

My understanding of oxidation is, the higher the temp, the faster the

process. Thus, if we're concerned that the oils in walnuts are so

delicate that they need to be refrigerated (unlike other nuts, which

are more stable), why would we bake the nuts overnight? In so doing

we're likely quadrupling the rate of oxidation.

Unlike enzymes, where 117-120Â° is the magical temperature, it's not

like there's a threshold where suddenly oxidation happens. Oxidation

happens at any temperature under normal conditions (presence of oxygen

being one of them). There's a direct relationship between temperature

and rate of oxidation.

So it seems counterintuitive to bake your walnuts if we're so

concerned about them that we take the trouble of refrigerating the

nuts. Now, I'm pretty sure NT says that soaked nuts, like soaked

grains, should be cooked after soaking to destroy some of the other

antinutrients. Or wait, does that only apply to *sprouted* grains and

nuts? I'll have to check. But I think the light baking of nuts does

have a nutritional purpose; it's not just for taste.

To clarify: my main point is, why refrigerate walnuts to slightly slow

down the " ambient " oxidation (the slow rate of oxidation that occurs

at room temp) when they're undergoing far greater oxidation in the oven?

Tom

> tom,

>

> as far as the enzymes in papaya go, my thought is that yes you will

> lose some (maybe all) of the enzymes, but will also partially

> breakdown some of the food through heat.

>

> i think that cooked and raw food both have benefit, and most people

> need a mix of the two--at least this was true of the groups price

> studied.

>

> therefore we don't have always to eat things raw (even fruit).

> personally, i eat avacado sauteed in coconut oil and love it, but

> when i eat it raw, i get gas.

>

> as for the walnuts, i don't know if heating will oxidize them--i am

> not so solid on the science there. but i always thought that it was

> really the high heat (300 or 400, or more) that caused oxidation, and

> if you basically dry things out at low temps (150 or so) the fats are

> still healthy.

>

> i can tell you that i make walnuts this way and they are amazing!!!

> they are so tender and delicate--they really melt in my mouth. my

> body tells me that this is a very healthy food.

>

> cric johnson

December 14, 2003

Quoting lucientj <cassiusdio@...>:

> Thanks, Cric. Well, I'm no raw-foodist. I cook at least half of my

> food. My point is, papaya seeds (which I've eaten raw; they have a

> very sharp, unpleasant taste) are said to have lots of enzymes.

> Because they don't taste great, the sole and express reason we are

> eating them is for the enzymes. If all enzymes are destroyed at 118Â°,

> why on earth would Sally recommend baking overnight at 150Â°? It seems

> to be an oversight on her part.

First, I doubt it's true that all enzymes denature at 118 degrees. Second,

the fact that the air in the oven is heated to 150 degrees does not

necessarily mean that the seeds will be heated to that temperature.

--

Berg

bberg@...

December 14, 2003

I can't say for sure every enzyme, but in my Biology class we did

experiments w/various enzymes and different factors that may affect them.

All the ones we tested lost effect on their substrate(the compound they

break down) at temperatures above normal body temps yet below boiling. I'll

try to search through my stuff for the info. Heat destroys the enzymes

shape, which features a " lock " , or active site, into which the " key " , or

substrate, fits perfectly. Thats why each enzyme is substrate specific - it

works on one type of compound, ie sucrase on sucrose. All proteins are

denatured by heat and extreme salt or PH also.

>From: Berg <bberg@...>

>Reply-

>

>Subject: Re: Re: Papaya seeds? Walnuts? Cook them?

>Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 22:22:06 -0800

>

>Quoting lucientj <cassiusdio@...>:

>

> > Thanks, Cric. Well, I'm no raw-foodist. I cook at least half of my

> > food. My point is, papaya seeds (which I've eaten raw; they have a

> > very sharp, unpleasant taste) are said to have lots of enzymes.

> > Because they don't taste great, the sole and express reason we are

> > eating them is for the enzymes. If all enzymes are destroyed at 118Â°,

> > why on earth would Sally recommend baking overnight at 150Â°? It seems

> > to be an oversight on her part.

>

>First, I doubt it's true that all enzymes denature at 118 degrees. Second,

>the fact that the air in the oven is heated to 150 degrees does not

>necessarily mean that the seeds will be heated to that temperature.

>

>--

> Berg

>bberg@...

_________________________________________________________________

Winterize your home with tips from MSN House & Home.

http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

December 15, 2003

I'll have to look into the enzyme denaturing issue. Everything I've

read thus far has implied that all enzymes are destroyed at around 118.

If the seeds are in the oven overnight, as NT suggests, they are

surely at oven temp all the way through, and probably for most of the

night. I would think that after an hour or two they're already at 150,

because 1. they're small unlike a thick roast of meat (the interior of

which will never reach oven temp normally) and 2. 150 is not much

above room temp so it takes much less time to get there.

Tom

> Quoting lucientj <cassiusdio@g...>:

>

> > Thanks, Cric. Well, I'm no raw-foodist. I cook at least half of my

> > food. My point is, papaya seeds (which I've eaten raw; they have a

> > very sharp, unpleasant taste) are said to have lots of enzymes.

> > Because they don't taste great, the sole and express reason we are

> > eating them is for the enzymes. If all enzymes are destroyed at 118Â°,

> > why on earth would Sally recommend baking overnight at 150Â°? It seems

> > to be an oversight on her part.

>

> First, I doubt it's true that all enzymes denature at 118 degrees.

Second,

> the fact that the air in the oven is heated to 150 degrees does not

> necessarily mean that the seeds will be heated to that temperature.

>

> --

> Berg

> bberg@c...

December 15, 2003

Tom,

this isn't necessarily true. I have dried hazelnuts in a 150 degree oven

and even after they have been in there a couple hours I can stand there and

eat them straight from the oven. If they were 150 degrees, I shouldn't be

able to do that. I think Sally says somewhere if it burns your mouth it is

above 118 degrees and also enzymes are being destroyed at that point.

danny

Creek Bend Dairy Farm

Harry & Peggy Strite

11917 Snug Harbor Lane

port, MD 21795

301-582-4135

cbdfarm@...

If the seeds are in the oven overnight, as NT suggests, they are

surely at oven temp all the way through, and probably for most of the

night. I would think that after an hour or two they're already at 150,

because 1. they're small unlike a thick roast of meat (the interior of

which will never reach oven temp normally) and 2. 150 is not much

above room temp so it takes much less time to get there.

Tom

---

December 15, 2003

In a message dated 12/15/03 4:04:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,

liberty@... writes:

> >I'll have to look into the enzyme denaturing issue. Everything

> >I've read thus far has implied that all enzymes are destroyed at

> >around 118.

>

> I've always wondered about that too, because I make a

> pudding that uses enzymes to convert starch to sugar

> while it's cooking.

Is the enzyme created in a lab? There's definitely enzymes that can

withstand much higher heats, but I think they are uncommon in most life from

regular

climates. Microorganisms that live in very high heats have enzymes that have a

much higher temp range, so there is nothing about an enzyme that makes it

inherently denature at that magic number. I guess it probably depends on the

chemical formation of the bridges that hold the shape together.

Chris

December 15, 2003

--- In , " Tom " <cassiusdio@g...>

wrote:

>

> I'll have to look into the enzyme denaturing issue. Everything

> I've read thus far has implied that all enzymes are destroyed at

> around 118.

I've always wondered about that too, because I make a

pudding that uses enzymes to convert starch to sugar

while it's cooking. Whole wheat berries are sprouted

and then ground, and a milky liquid strained off. That

liquid is mixed with whole-wheat flour and water, and

stirred and slowly cooked for almost a half an hour.

During the cooking an enzyme from the sprouts converts

starch in the flour to sugar, making the pudding sweet

without adding any other kind of sugar. The pudding

is definitely sweeter at the end of cooking than it is

half way through, so it would seem that the enzymes are

continuing to work throughout the prolonged cooking.

December 15, 2003

>

> Is the enzyme created in a lab? There's definitely enzymes that

> can withstand much higher heats, but I think they are uncommon in

> most life from regular climates.

No, it comes from the wheat sprouts that I described. That's

why they're sprouted first. Maybe it's amylase or maltase.

December 15, 2003

I'm wondering if the sweet taste isn't from the sprouts themselves. If

you've ever had manna bread, or wheat sprouts, you know what I'm talking

about. Also, in the same lab, I watched the sugar content of potatoes and

onions increase from cooking, so I would think this happens with most

starches during cooking. The enzymes would remain active until the internal

temperature became high enough to unravel the peptide bonds.