Re: when to meddle?

[Guest guest]

I wouls say to stay out of meddling. People are so sensitive to these thibgs

(parents especially) and no onw wants to be told they're doing the wrong thing

(ad yes I think it's terrible) but the public has been so duped and are so

uneducated about health/diet and wellness. You could possibly throw out a curve

ball and tell her there are people raising very healthy children who don't get

sick much, have never had an antibiotic etc.. and see if her interest perks

up. Though the average person will never believe such a thing to be true.

I know it's tough, I feel quite alone out there in the everyday wirls of

parenting doing things so radically different but I've learned to keep my mouth

shut unless asked and even then I'm quite reserved (unless it's a professional

situation and someone has come for a health cosultation etc..)

Elainie

[Guest guest]

>My husband's fraternal twin brother and his wife have twin boys who are 16

>months old. They obviously love their children very much, but I was horrified

>by what they (well-meaningly) fed them. Aren't cereal grains difficult for

>babies of this age to digest?

It's not just a digestive problem ... a lot of the gluten problems

people are having now are because they got fed it so early.

With rats, if they are fed gluten before their gut

develops properly they get Type 1 diabetes. It's

really a bad idea.

>taking the drug, and that they only got a little bit each day. I also wonder

if

>the " sickness " was really allergies to the grains, formula, and pasteurized

>milk.

Probably. Of the three, the grains cause the worst problems,

statistically.

>Believing, as I do, that they are inadvertently damaging their children, what

is

>my moral responsibility?

You don't really have a moral responsibility to take care

of them. What I do is tell them ONCE and maybe

print some good medical literature out. But really,

they don't listen until the kid gets really sick.

Their kids fit in with all the other kids in preschool,

probably ... most of them are constantly sick with

runny noses, and then later they get ADD and

that's pretty normal too.

I have relatives that are very similar ... the Grandma

was from Mexico, and their traditional cooking

is pretty good. But the daughter is really into

the American Way and the kids live on snack food.

They were kind of nonplussed that I'd go out

to get cow parts like some poor person would.

But they are slowly getting used to the idea.

One by one my relatives are beginning to

improve their diets too, partly because they

can see we are doing so much better.

The only consolation I have is that I'm pretty

sure this whole thing will turn around fairly

quickly. It's like this tide is building -- I've been

watching it for a few years now, but it really

started in the '70s.

Also, if the kids are throwing up because

of grains, the likelihood is that they will

get worse quickly and the testing is getting

better -- they are more likely to test a kid

than an adult. A positive gluten-allergy

test will help bring them around, and then

maybe they will listen to getting better food.

> I feel so powerless to change anything... I don't even

>know if I can protect my OWN future children, with a husband who doesn't

>buy NT. I also want people to like me, and don't want to rock the boat. I

>don't like these traits in myself... I feel so weak and ineffectual.

Well, first about your own kids: the hand that stirs the pot has

the power. In my family I was surprised how easy it was

to change everyone's diet -- I just changed what I cooked.

They do buy snack food, but it mostly ends up going

to the chickens because they forget to eat it.

For other people, you can print stuff out, you can share

what you know, and you can be a good example. Society

changes slowly. Very slowly. But NT cooking is really

addictive, and it tastes good! If you were closer to them

you could maybe get cooking lessons ... real Mexican

cooking is rather wonderful, and maybe they can learn

to appreciate their heritage more (and if not, at least

you can learn something).

Back in the 40-50's there was this big push for " white folks "

to start " modernizing " . Stuff from the farm was considered

" hick " and inferior, and that new " white bread " was the thing!

Anything homemade was a sign of poverty, and bought stuff

was kind of a sign of the future. I kind of think the folks who

are immigrating are going through a similar glitch, a kind

of rebellion against the past.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

--- In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

> Well, first about your own kids: the hand that stirs the pot has

> the power. In my family I was surprised how easy it was

> to change everyone's diet -- I just changed what I cooked.

> They do buy snack food, but it mostly ends up going

> to the chickens because they forget to eat it.

-----I hope you're right. I have a difficult husband! He doesn't even want me

to cook for him because he's so suspicious of " healthy " food. I'm not a bad

cook, I swear! He would just rather get restaurant food all the time. He's not

the typical guy who just eats what's put in front of him (or wants his wife to

decorate the apartment... he has to be involved in every little decision).

> For other people, you can print stuff out, you can share

> what you know, and you can be a good example. Society

> changes slowly. Very slowly. But NT cooking is really

> addictive, and it tastes good! If you were closer to them

> you could maybe get cooking lessons ... real Mexican

> cooking is rather wonderful, and maybe they can learn

> to appreciate their heritage more (and if not, at least

> you can learn something).

>

----My mother in law is a wonderful cook! Unfortunately she fries in corn oil

because she says no one has used lard since the 50's (unless it's " vegetable "

lard... ugh). She says this is because the pigs are raised unhealthily. I

didn't

understand, since they eat plenty of pork... but there is a serious language

barrier. I tell my husband that lard is the proper and traditional fat for me

to

use when I make enchiladas, but he doesn't want me to use it, because it's

LARD and therefore gross somehow. The word really has gotten negative

connotations in the last several decades. If he's not watching, I do anyway.

He can't tell the difference:-).

> Back in the 40-50's there was this big push for " white folks "

> to start " modernizing " . Stuff from the farm was considered

> " hick " and inferior, and that new " white bread " was the thing!

> Anything homemade was a sign of poverty, and bought stuff

> was kind of a sign of the future. I kind of think the folks who

> are immigrating are going through a similar glitch, a kind

> of rebellion against the past.

I think you're right! Interestingly, all my husbands family here in the states

are significantly overweight. The relatives back in Mexico are not. It's kind

of

a family joke... come to the states and get fat. My husband's grandfather in

Mexico is a baker, so they ate wheat bread... and I think Coca Cola is a

common beverage in Mexico. When I believed low carb was THE THING,

this used to baffle me. Certainly MORE sugar and refined carbs are

consumed here, but plenty back in Mexico, too. Then recently (until

mom-in-law said she has never cooked with lard) I figured it was exchanging

healthy lard for PUFA and trans fats... I am somewhat baffled. Perhaps it's

that the tortillas were made from freshly ground cornmeal, and the bread was

from freshly ground flour? And then there is the consumption of breakfast

cereal. I doubt that was eaten much in Mexico. My husband just LOVES

sugary cereals with milk (even though he's admittedly lactose intolerant, and

(I believe) gluten intolerant). He won't even consider giving up wheat for a

week.

[Guest guest]

Anybody else struggling with these conflicted feelings? Any advice on how to

gently guide family and friends toward NT without alienating them?

,

I know exactly how you feel. We even have family members who know a little bit

about how bad all that junk is and still do it. I do have one good story

though, about 9 years ago my sister-in-law had her first baby and I was just

getting interested in herbs and nutrition and her 9mo baby was sick with ear

infections since he was born, so he was constantly on anti-biotics. I had read

an article about helping kids overcome ear infections without antibiotics, and

building the immune system, eating healthy, it was fairly reader friendly and

not too long and complicated so I made her a copy and gave it to her feeling

really stupid because I thought she would just think I was being a crazy health

food nut, but she was actually really thankful that I gave it to her. Since

then their are times when she inspires me to eat healthier. It's kinda nice

because even though she has shared alot of this with her family they just prefer

the SAD way and at Thanksgiving dinner I was so thrilled that her pies weren't

Jell-O box pies. Everything was made with real ingredients and also tasted soo

much better! She even called me the day before to see if I was making homemade

cranberry sauce to bring. I was glad to know that I'm not the only one in the

family with a desire to make even yummy stuff healthier. So you never know what

sharing a little info here and there might do for someone. I usually email some

little tidbit when I think it might be interesting enough for other family

members to read. And they can just delete it, or maybe they will try a little

harder and make a little more progress. I sent my mom the article about the rat

experiment and the puffed wheat (she eats puffed wheat and ice cream like 5x a

wk). Now she just mentions eating something and asks " So is this going to kill

me too? " . I tell her yes it is! <G>

I think it's hard when you first have children if you don't know any better.

You just do what everyone else does and whatever your doctor tells you, etc,

etc. I used to take my kids to the doctor for everything, but then I because

leery of antibiotic overuse. Plus I got so sick of going in and being told that

it's a virus and just go home and sorry we can't be of more help. I figured I'd

keep my co-pay and take care of them myself. The pressure to conform is pretty

strong when someone first becomes parents, UNLESS you already know better. I

wish I had know 14years ago what I know now. Lucky for my children they were

all breastfeed until at least a year old. I'm so thankful that I did that, not

even realizing it was even more important than I thought at the time. And I

always knew it was important.

Michele

[Guest guest]

> I know exactly how you feel. We even have family members who know a

little bit about how bad all that junk is and still do it.

-----Thanks for the encouraging words, Michele!

[Guest guest]

>-----I hope you're right. I have a difficult husband! He doesn't even want me

>to cook for him because he's so suspicious of " healthy " food. I'm not a bad

>cook, I swear! He would just rather get restaurant food all the time. He's

not

>the typical guy who just eats what's put in front of him (or wants his wife to

>decorate the apartment... he has to be involved in every little decision).

So what does he like? I cook for clients a lot, and I've not

seen one who disliked a good steak and potato. Well, maybe

the vegetarians, but I've not had one as a client. Tongue and raw

hamburger is a stretch, but you don't NEED that for a healthy

diet. It's pretty easy to cook better than a restaurant ... but some

folks really like fried food. I have no problem with that, if it's

good oil. (though really, I don't do turkeys <g>).

Actually I have " my " favorite snacks which I keep for myself.

Then folks get jealous and ask why I don't share. Which I will

if they ask. Several of those snacks have become family

staples.

>----My mother in law is a wonderful cook! Unfortunately she fries in corn oil

>because she says no one has used lard since the 50's (unless it's " vegetable "

>lard... ugh). She says this is because the pigs are raised unhealthily. I

didn't

>understand, since they eat plenty of pork... but there is a serious language

>barrier. I tell my husband that lard is the proper and traditional fat for me

to

>use when I make enchiladas, but he doesn't want me to use it, because it's

>LARD and therefore gross somehow. The word really has gotten negative

>connotations in the last several decades. If he's not watching, I do anyway.

>He can't tell the difference:-).

They might go for coconut oil though. Most pigs ARE raised

unhealthily. Actually I don't eat much pork now, partly for

that reason.

>I think you're right! Interestingly, all my husbands family here in the states

>are significantly overweight. The relatives back in Mexico are not. It's kind

of

>a family joke... come to the states and get fat. My husband's grandfather in

>Mexico is a baker, so they ate wheat bread... and I think Coca Cola is a

>common beverage in Mexico. When I believed low carb was THE THING,

>this used to baffle me. Certainly MORE sugar and refined carbs are

>consumed here, but plenty back in Mexico, too. Then recently (until

>mom-in-law said she has never cooked with lard) I figured it was exchanging

>healthy lard for PUFA and trans fats... I am somewhat baffled. Perhaps it's

>that the tortillas were made from freshly ground cornmeal, and the bread was

>from freshly ground flour? And then there is the consumption of breakfast

>cereal. I doubt that was eaten much in Mexico. My husband just LOVES

>sugary cereals with milk (even though he's admittedly lactose intolerant, and

>(I believe) gluten intolerant). He won't even consider giving up wheat for a

>week.

I think, from looking at the issues in various times and countries,

that wheat is the biggest problem. Mexican cooking was

actually pretty good ... I suspect most Mexicans do NOT carry

any genes that would give them problems with beans or corn

(since they've been eating them forever). Tortillas are from corn

soaked in lime, very NT. They did not have wheat til the white folks

came, and mostly recently. I don't know about milk ... they had

llamas which maybe they milked? And goats?

Wheat flour is an issue for complicated genetic reasons, but

in the cultures Price studied that had problems, he always points

out the new addition of " white flour and sugar " . No one ever adds

brown flour though, and no healthy examples of a culture that

eats brown wheat flour seem to exist. And there is a lot of research

now that indicates it may be the " lead acetate "

of the modern world (the Romans

put lead acetate in their wine, as a sweetener, and didn't think much

about it. But they rich folks who drank a lot of wine had plenty

of symptoms of lead poisoning, which may be why they acted

so weird and the empire finally fell).

But again, I don't think it matters whether you talk

about this or not. It's only a matter of time before the

current research rhits the mass media, unless

it is actively suppressed, and at that point going " anti

gluten " will be the hot new fad and everyone will do it.

Except that unlike the low fat fad, this one actually

has some science behind it.

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

,

Looks like you have a good understanding of what traditional Mexican foods

are from history and your MIL. This article

http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/giobesity.php is about the

differences in weight and diabetes between the Pima Indians of Mexico and

Arizona.

Wanita

[Guest guest]

,

I feel for you in this situation. Whether it is animals or humans, I have

been in similar circumstances countless times before. I used to jump right

in, open my mouth, and usually hit a brick wall. I have found that waiting

things out....letting them see the actual results and then inquire on their

own has been the best bet. It is tough to wait it out....I am NOT a patient

person, but I have to remind myself that I won't get anywhere if I barge in.

Subtle manipulation <g>.

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>Looks like you have a good understanding of what traditional Mexican foods

>are from history and your MIL. This article

><http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/giobesity.php>http://www.foodandhealth\

..com/cpecourses/giobesity.php is about the

>differences in weight and diabetes between the Pima Indians of Mexico and

>Arizona.

Wanita:

That is a great article! Has answers to a lot of questions

that have been raised over the last months.

One I thought was interesting is that " higher osmolarity " foods (read salty,

sugary)

tend to delay stomach emptying.

Also that fat magnifies the insulin response for CHO.

Also that one of the issues for T2 diabetes is eating when

the glycogen stores are full -- which bodes well for the WD

way of eating, because the glycogen stores are empty

by dinner time, or at least more empty.

Anyway, thanks!

-- Heidi

[Guest guest]

--- In , Heidi Schuppenhauer <heidis@t...>

wrote:

> So what does he like? I cook for clients a lot, and I've not

> seen one who disliked a good steak and potato.

I do fry up some skirt steak for him sometimes which he eats with tortillas and

beans and tomatoes and salsa (which I make according to his Mom's recipe).

The problem comes when he wants to have cookies and milk for dessert!

And a bowl of sugar cereal later! When we have kids and I'm cooking for the

whole family on a schedule it will be easier to get him to eat healthier meals

more frequently. I agree that tortillas are decent food as bread products go.

I plan to cook traditional Mexican for my family in the future, and want to

grind

my own corn flour and get my own tortilla press. It's something I know my

husband likes, and is easy to make NT (and it's gluten free!). The lard I

currently use is organic from Many Hands farm in MA.

Example of my husband being difficult: He says he loves Mexican crab soup,

so I say I'll learn how to make it. He says, " no that's OK, I'd rather just go

out

to a restaurant and order it. " Also, even if I fry a grassfed hamburger, he

thinks it smells gamey and disgusting. It's not that he dislikes meat, he

LOVES meat. He just hates the smell of just about everything I prepare for

myself. Even relatively normal foods. I think he's just highly suggestible.

He

thinks I eat weird foods, therefore whatever I'm eating must smell bad. I

really wonder if his extreme sensitivity to annoyances and smells, and

impatience and irritability, is caused in part by a gluten allergy. I really do

worry about him (shortness of breath, sleep apnea, overweight, psoriatic

lesions on his face, IBS...) but he is not willing to hear any nutritional

suggestions from me. It took me years of yammering about low carb and

insulin before he finally tried Atkins (he's off it now) and now admits it

works.

Though he says " any diet will work, they're all the same... " My man is

stubborn, but I love him! I won't give up. Some day everything I'm saying will

sink in...

[Guest guest]

--- In , Wanita Sears <wanitawa@b...>

wrote:

> ,

>

> Looks like you have a good understanding of what traditional Mexican foods

> are from history and your MIL. This article

> http://www.foodandhealth.com/cpecourses/giobesity.php is about the

> differences in weight and diabetes between the Pima Indians of Mexico and

> Arizona.

-----Thanks Wanita! I'll check it out!

[Guest guest]

> ,

> I feel for you in this situation. Whether it is animals or humans, I have

> been in similar circumstances countless times before. I used to jump right

> in, open my mouth, and usually hit a brick wall. I have found that waiting

> things out....letting them see the actual results and then inquire on their

> own has been the best bet. It is tough to wait it out....I am NOT a patient

> person, but I have to remind myself that I won't get anywhere if I barge in.

> Subtle manipulation <g>.

----Thanks, ! I think you're right. Subtlety is the way to go. It's much

harder for me when it's helpless babies that are being fed badly, though.

BTW, I met my first mostly-fruitarian today. And let me tell you, this guy

LOOKS like he eats only fruit. He had an extreme ecstatic reaction to just

smelling chocolate at the store where I work (I thought he was a mental

patient off his meds for a minute there), so I suggested maybe he was

deficient in something in the chocolate (Mg... fat?). He told me he gets all

the

nutrients his body requires in fruit. When I told him that I have communicated

with people on this list whose bodies were damaged by fruitarian diets, he

said it's because you have to go into it gradually with lots of detoxing and

cleanses first. I was scared for this guy. Seriously scared. Do those of you

with experience with this kind of diet think there is a eupohoric state that

happens that causes people to think what they are doing is healthy?

This seems to be the week for me wanting to save the world from their eating

habits:-)

[Guest guest]

,

My husband and I have a policy: whenever we need to get a wedding or new baby

gift, we send " Nourishing Traditions. " People always think it's weird at first,

but if they like to cook, they tend to slip into a conversion...even if it's

just partial. Since it's in the form of a gift, it never feels like

proselytizing.

It would also be a great Christmas gift along with a nice stockpot or other high

quality kitchen item.

[Guest guest]

>I do fry up some skirt steak for him sometimes which he eats with tortillas and

>beans and tomatoes and salsa (which I make according to his Mom's recipe).

Mmmm. I'm coming for dinner!

>

>Example of my husband being difficult: He says he loves Mexican crab soup,

>so I say I'll learn how to make it. He says, " no that's OK, I'd rather just go

out

>to a restaurant and order it. " Also, even if I fry a grassfed hamburger, he

>thinks it smells gamey and disgusting. It's not that he dislikes meat, he

>LOVES meat. He just hates the smell of just about everything I prepare for

>myself.

That is odd. Do other people react to that hamburger that way? I

give samples of my beef to other folks and the usual

reaction is " wow, that's the best beef I've ever had! " . If

it tastes gamey it may have not been processed correctly.

> Even relatively normal foods. I think he's just highly suggestible. He

>thinks I eat weird foods, therefore whatever I'm eating must smell bad. I

>really wonder if his extreme sensitivity to annoyances and smells, and

>impatience and irritability, is caused in part by a gluten allergy.

That happens too. When I get gluten EVERYTHING irritates me.

I also feel like my skin is crawling, and my ears buzz and

the slightest noise annoys. Sinusitis does that also.

Though he says " any diet will work, they're all the same... " My man is

>stubborn, but I love him! I won't give up. Some day everything I'm saying

will

>sink in...

It's hard when they eat out a lot. Mine doesn't, because he

hates to spend money! So he's stuck with my cooking.

-- Heidi