Re: room spray and facial mist - emulsifiers

[Guest guest]

It makes intuitive sense to use witch hazel as a delivery agent, no? I would

have no prob adding an EO to witch hazel for a facial spritz

PJ

[Guest guest]

? Answer me, if i am wrong.....witch hazel has been used for skin,

forever, lol.....the properties are similar to alcohol, but much less

drying...tis an ideal medium for a facial mist, but , I would advise

refrigeratin, depending on the EO you use

[Guest guest]

Sherry,

I'm still in the learning stages with this product - but it's a really

cool emulsifier.

Here is a link to the manufacturer with some good info:

http://www.personalcare.bfgoodrich.com/products/pemulen_frame.htm

(thanks Maurice...)

I don't totally understand how the EDTA works as a chelating substance

(binds with ions?) but it's used in this formulation to help decrease the

viscosity, to enable it to spray easily....

Not sure if this helped or not.......

Tamara

Sherry Roeder wrote:

>

> > I have some of the Pemulin TR-2, and I'm going to experiment with

> it in body sprays.

[Guest guest]

Dolores,

I never saw your post regarding a Vitamin C product. Please repost it and I

will try to answer it. Regarding the question of the alcohol in witch hazel

being sufficient to solubilize any oils I partially answered that one in

describing the fact that there are two types of witch hazel, one with 14%

alcohol and the other without. 14% alcohol is not sufficient to solubilize

any oil in a system that has ~86% water or water dispersible components.

Therefore the answer to that question is no.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: room spray and facial mist - emulsifiers

pj i never did get an answer as to weather the pure witch hazel has

enoug alcohol to emulsify several drops of eo i wonder how much

alcohol you need in other words what the ratio is or perhaps if you add

any water no amount of everclear will emulsify even smallest amount of

oil. the chemists are very much in demand they usually get to all of

the questions eventually so i remain patient (although my questions

on vit c in skin cream got lost somewhere and never answered should i

repost it?) do you know anything about this witchhazel thing pj

dolores

[Guest guest]

Pat,

Regarding Vitamin C, also known as ascorbic acid, it is very difficult to

incorporate this material into an aqueous product. Ascorbic acid is oxidized

readily in aqueous solutions turning a bright orange in the process. Some

people have incorporated an ester of Vitamin C, ascorbyl palmitate, into

various products. The theory is that the ester linkage will be broken down

by hydrolysis on the skin to give you Vitamin C. Others have used Magnesium

Ascorbyl Phosphate as a Vitamin C source. MAP can cause some skin lightening

in some people. In an anhydrous system you can incorporate ascorbic acid

safely. The product, when applied to the skin, will release the Vitamin C on

the surface.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: room spray and facial mist - emulsifiers

> pj i never did get an answer as to weather the pure witch hazel has

> enoug alcohol to emulsify several drops of eo

Dolores, I think may have answered this when he said that witch hazel

with alcohol is still considered a water product.

i wonder how much

> alcohol you need in other words what the ratio is or perhaps if you add

> any water no amount of everclear will emulsify even smallest amount of

> oil.

I use 70% alcohol in my spritzers with the balance made up of water and

fragrance. The samples I have in clear bottles look like everything is mixed

and there is no separation that I can see. I do intend to add Polysorbate 20

to my next batch though.

(although my questions

> on vit c in skin cream got lost somewhere and never answered should i

> repost it?)

It is my understanding that it is difficult to incorporate vitamin C into a

lotion or cream. I am interested in this as well and was hoping that either

or Maurice would address it on the list.

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

achil@...

http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/

www.yourhealthandbody.com

[Guest guest]

Sherry,

Pemulen is a polymeric thickening product from B F Goodrich Company. It can

also be used in conjunction with some nonionic emulsifiers to create some

very elegant emulsions. It is not a replacement for alcohol. It is similar

to Carbopol.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: room spray and facial mist - emulsifiers

> I have some of the Pemulin TR-2, and I'm going to experiment with

it in body sprays.

> Question: Can I substitute tetrasodium EDTA for disodium EDTA as a

> chelating agent

Tamara/all~ what is Pemulin TR-2? Is this used as an alternative to

alcohol in sprays? also, what does a chelating agent do in these

sprays/mists?

Thanks,

Sherry

[Guest guest]

Some

> people have incorporated an ester of Vitamin C, ascorbyl palmitate, into

> various products. The theory is that the ester linkage will be broken down

> by hydrolysis on the skin to give you Vitamin C.

Hi .

Using this method, you wouldn't be able to claim your product had Vitamin C,

would you? Is there a cosmetic claim you could make that would lead people

to believe you did have C in your product?

In an anhydrous system you can incorporate ascorbic acid

> safely. The product, when applied to the skin, will release the Vitamin C

on

> the surface.

Would this produce a color change?

Thanks

Pat.

Peace, Joy, Serenity

House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc.

achil@...

http://houseofscents.safeshopper.com/

www.yourhealthandbody.com

[Guest guest]

Sherry,

I have the isoceth-20 and can obtain both the PEG-40 Castor Oil and the

Polysorbate-20. Contact me off list for additional information. I need to

know what you consider a small quantity.

Young

KY Labs

Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products

www.kylabs.com

Re: room spray and facial mist - emulsifiers

> polysorbate-20 or isoceteth-20 at equal levels of oil increasing it

> as needed until clarity is achieved. Another good solubilizer is

> PEG-40 Castor Oil.

>

> Young

/all~

Does anyone know of a supplier who would sell these solubilizers in

small quantities so I can experiment as to which i like better?

Thanks,

Sherry