Guest guest Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 First of all, many many thanks to those of you who responded to my email about mentors; four people rang me offering to mentor new members in London, which is great. There's still room for more, though, so if you're interested, please give me a ring on 01758 750368, or send me an email. Secondly, more on the high-protein diet debate. Lots of interesting replies, and did anyone see the Horizon programme on Thursday about the Atkins diet? I found it really interesting, as much for the questions it left unanswered, as for the conclusion it reached. The final bit of research they presented seemed to show that the reason for the diet's success is that the consumption of lots of protein somehow 'switches off' the appetite, so that dieters end up eating fewer calories overall, than people on conventional high carb diets. Earlier in the programme, however, they mentioned a bit of research which showed that people on the Atkins diet, despite eating lots of saturated fats, had lower cholesterol levels than people on other diets. Unfortunately they didn't pursue this any further. Now, of course, there wasn't enough detail given to assess it properly, but I have long held the view that it's sugar and refined carbs, not fat per se, that causes dangerously high cholesterol levels. Trouble is, I can't remember where I read it, so I'll have to do a bit of digging. Watch this space! This would fit, though, with the fact that people who go on low fat diets to reduce their cholesterol don't seem to have much success. Also, people have been eating saturated fats for hundreds, possible thousands of years, and heart disease isn't getting noticeably less since everyone's been eating Flora, is it? (Horrid stuff!) You can call me an ace cynic, but if it really is the case that refined carbs, not fats, cause high cholesterol, wouldn't it make a nice lot of money for the pharmaceuticals who make the statins, to support the promotion of high carb, low fat diets? And we know that they have their fingers in lots and lots of pies, don't we? (Who makes Slimfast, anyway; wouldn't be anything to do with Nutrasweet, by any chance?) And as for the sugar industry, well, they've been pretty blatant about trying to bribe/threaten the WHO recently, into removing all references to sugar in their report about the growing (ha ha) obesity problem in the USA. Having just returned from chilly New York, I've seen at first hand, just how much sugar the average American eats, and it's frightening. Just a few thoughts, to occupy your minds while you're eating your leftover Xmas choccies! Cheers! Alison Morton _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 I had some thoughts following Alison's email.... >>The final bit of research they presented seemed to show that the reason for the diet's success is that the consumption of lots of protein somehow 'switches off' the appetite, so that dieters end up eating fewer calories overall, than people on conventional high carb diets.>> As I said in my previous email - high protein intakes lead to more rapid satiety than any other nutrient although high carbohydrate/high fibre diets have been shown to have a similar effect in reducing calorie intakes. However, some people find it easier to have a diet based on protein than fibre and therefore are more successful in losing weight with the Atkins diet than they have been with other diets. This doesn't apply to everyone - many can't tolerate the high protein diet and are as unsuccessful as they have been with all other diets. <<<...people on the Atkins diet, despite eating lots of saturated fats, had lower cholesterol levels than people on other diets. Unfortunately they didn't pursue this any further. Now, of course, there wasn't enough detail given to assess it properly, but I have long held the view that it's sugar and refined carbs, not fat per se, that causes dangerously high cholesterol levels. Trouble is, I can't remember where I read it, so I'll have to do a bit of digging. Watch this space! This would fit, though, with the fact that people who go on low fat diets to reduce their cholesterol don't seem to have much success. Also, people have been eating saturated fats for hundreds, possible thousands of years, and heart disease isn't getting noticeably less since everyone's been eating Flora, is it?<<<< Actually, CHD mortality rates in the UK have been falling since the 1970s - However, we still have the highest rate of deaths from CHD in the world especially in Scotland, Northern Ireland and North England. This is thought to be due more to lower intakes of fruit and veg, higher rates of smoking and lower physical activity levels than to regional differences in saturated fat intakes. There are some individuals that are particularly good absorbers of dietary cholesterol and therefore they do benefit from a reduction in high cholesterol foods, which also tend to be fatty foods and by altering their ratio of saturated to MUFAs/PUFAs. However, many other's appear to produce high levels of endogenous cholesterol - which is where the benefits of statins come in (not that I am particularly in favour of statins per se). <<<You can call me an ace cynic, but if it really is the case that refined carbs, not fats, cause high cholesterol, wouldn't it make a nice lot of money for the pharmaceuticals who make the statins, to support the promotion of high carb, low fat diets? And we know that they have their fingers in lots and lots of pies, don't we? (Who makes Slimfast, anyway; wouldn't be anything to do with Nutrasweet, by any chance?) And as for the sugar industry, well, they've been pretty blatant about trying to bribe/threaten the WHO recently, into removing all references to sugar in their report about the growing (ha ha) obesity problem in the USA. Having just returned from chilly New York, I've seen at first hand, just how much sugar the average American eats, and it's frightening.>>> Modified corn syrup is now used as a cheap sweetner in many fast foods and fizzy drinks and high intakes of such foods (combined with a drop in energy expenditure) is thought to contribute to the increase in " syndrome X " (central obesity, hypertension, raised plasma insulin and dyslipidaemia). Children who eat a lot of these foods have been found to have fatty livers (rather like geese being fed on corn meal for fois gras - as described recently on TV). There is some evidence that a high carbohydrate diet can raise triglyceride concentrations and may lower LDL and HDL cholesterol. But, other studies show that these changes in blood lipids can be negated by exercise and may only occur in high-carb diets that are especially high in simple sugars and low in complex carbohydrates (See evidence below). When nutritionists talk about the benefits of " high carb diets " they are referring only to complex carbohydrates (i.e. those found in whole grains, fruit and veg) not processed foods containing simple sugars. " A high carbohydrate diet has been shown to increase triglyceride concentrations in the postprandial state (Abbasi et al., 2000; Koutsari et al., 2001) and in the fasting state (Abbasi et al., 2000; Koutsari and Hardman, 2001). An increase in triglycerides is considered to be a risk factor for coronary artery disease. However, a study conducted by Vidon et al. (2001) found that where high carbohydrate diets (55% energy from carbohydrate) were low in simple sugars, there was no increase in triglyceride concentrations. Alford et al. (1990) showed that in his three study groups, (diets based on either: 25%, 45% or 75% energy from carbohydrate) the triglyceride concentration increases were not statistically different from each other. Exercise has been shown to negate the increase in triglycerides in the postprandial state (Koutsari et al., 2001; Koutsari and Hardman, 2001) and in the fasting state (Koutsari et al., 2001). The high carbohydrate diet also caused a reduction in both the HDL cholesterol concentrations (Abbasi et al., 2000; Vidon et al., 2001) and the LDL cholesterol concentrations (Vidon et al., 2001). A decrease in LDL cholesterol concentrations is associated with a reduced risk of coronary heart disease, but a decrease in HDL cholesterol may be associated with an increased risk (American Heart Association, 2002). " As usual...longer term studies are needed to evaluate the percent of energy from carbohydrate and fat that the diet should provide to establish the optimal plasma cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations. However, an active lifestyle with a diet high in fruit, vegetables and unrefined sugar would appear to be the most beneficial to health. Best wishes, Charlotte Stedman Medical Herbalist & Nutritionist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 25, 2004 Report Share Posted January 25, 2004 >I have long held the view that it's >sugar and refined carbs, not fat per se, that causes dangerously high >cholesterol levels. Hello Alison, I read about Indian Asians developing heart disease secondary to rich sugar diets in the west - the effect of the sugars caused fatty deposits in the artery walls - cholesterol? Regards, Benn -- Benn Abdy- MCPP Medical Herbalist Windsor, Newquay, London 0 or 07957 65 88 90 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Hi Benn I think it was in a book called 'Sugar, Diabetes and the Saccharine disease' by et al, printed in 1966. I have a copy of this book but have loaned it to some friends at present, so will check when I get it back. It's well worth a read, but it was really hard to get hold of, I got it through the local post-grad medical library in the hospital I was working in at the time, and it came through with stickers all over it saying 'Cambridge University Library; reference only, not to be removed from library'!! So I, er, copied it (I do hope no-one on this list is from the Copyrights dept!!) But if you can get it, it offers a great insight into the role of refined sugars/carbs in the development of much 'modern' disease. It was recommended to me by whoever was the marking tutor for the geriatrics module of the tutorial diploma course at the Sch. of Phyt. Alison > >Reply-To: ukherbal-list >To: ukherbal-list >Subject: Re: thanks/diet >Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2004 22:13:50 +0000 > > >I have long held the view that it's > >sugar and refined carbs, not fat per se, that causes dangerously high > >cholesterol levels. > >Hello Alison, > >I read about Indian Asians developing heart disease secondary to rich >sugar diets in the west - the effect of the sugars caused fatty deposits >in the artery walls - cholesterol? > >Regards, > >Benn >-- >Benn Abdy- MCPP >Medical Herbalist >Windsor, Newquay, London >0 or 07957 65 88 90 _________________________________________________________________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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