Re: Re: Fish/Stag Symbology

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I am writing to you on Sunday morning, the last day of the true Millennium,

instead of trucking through the snow to church, here in frigid Kansas. My

family experieced not only the cold, dark bleakness of the Solstice season

this week, but also our own vulnerability to winter's harshness when our

furnace suddenly died in the middle of the night. I can't thank you enough

(and also you Mike for your recent post refering me to Lambspringk's

zodialchemical renderings) for staying with me on this consuming personal

quest. The soul-ful collective response from this group has confirmed for me

that the spirit of Mercurious (invoked for us here by our collective birth

mother - Maureen, the Nathair) remains alive and well. I am profoundly

grateful to you all!

, your encouragement to read Aion has been an eye-opener for me. I

thought I had read much of Jung's prolific life's work - but had only read

about Aion. It is an astonishing book - one born of true revelation, IMHO.

I am particularly struck by the powerful infusion of both alchemy and

astrology in the formulation of Jung's ideas therein. But the synchronicity

for me, viz-a-viz the fish symbolism, was quite powerful. I was unaware of

his treatment of it before you mentioned it to me here at the fire.

The fish image holds strong numenous magnetism for me - and has for a few

years. I might mention the significance of it relative to our family crest -

something I had mentioned briefly before. I have always been drawn to the

importance of family heritage and have done much research on my family' s

geneology. Doing so has helped me understand mySelf and my own human

tragectory. The crest is something I had not spent much time considering,

in part because the images contained within it defied any rational

explanation - at least up to now. Here is what it looks like: There is a

large shield in the center, encased within heavy wooden armaments (crossed

swords and helmet all around). This cental shield has a bright red

background. On this background are two images: Two gold batons (with fluer

de lese ends) are crossed over a silver fish, positioned horizontally. There

is a second, smaller crest over this larger one, and outside the wooden

military images. This shield also contains a red background. On the red

background there are two wings. The left wing is red and contains small

crossed golden batons. The right wing is gold and contains a small silver

fish (positioned vertically). Above the small shield, at the top of the

crest is an empty place, which usually contains a family motto. So within

the crest is the astrological symbol of the two fishes of Pisces.

With this image in mind, I will quote a section from Aion in which Jung

(p.151) relates a patient's dream, one that contains some synchronicities

with both my own dream and with the family crest. Her dream [with some

deletions for brevity] follows:

" I came to the bank of a flowing river...I had a fishing rod in my hand. I

sat down on a rock and started fishing. ..Suddenly a big fish bit. It had a

silver belly and a golden back. As I drew him to land, the whole landscape

became alive: the rock emerged like the primeval foundation of the earth,

grass and flowers sprang up, and the bushes expanded into a great forest. A

gust of wind blew and set everything in motion. Then, suddenly, I heard

behind me the voice of Mr. X [an older man whom she knew only from photgraphs

and from hearsay, but who seems to have been some kind of authority for her.]

He said, quietly but distinctly: 'The patient ones in the innermost realm

are given the fish, the food of the deep.'... "

Jung then reflects upon the symbolism of the dream thus:

" This dream has all the marks of a 'big' dream, and it also has the quality

of something 'thought,' which is characteristic of the intuitive type. Even

though the dreamer had acquired some knowledge of psychology by this time,

she had no knowledge whatever of the historical fish symbol. The details of

the dream may be commented on as follows: The bank of the river represents

the threshold, so to speak, to the unconscious. Fishing is an intuitive

attempt to " catch " unconscious contents (fishes). Silver and gold, in

alchemical language, signify feminine and masculine, the hermaphrodite aspect

of the fish, indicating that it is a complexio oppositorum. it also brings

about a magical animation. The older man is a personification of the

archetype of the 'wise old man.' ......The dream sums up in a condensed form

the whole symbolism of the individuation process in the person who was

totally unacquainted with the literature of the subject. Cases of this kind

are by no means rare and ought to make us think. They demonstrate the

existence of the unconscious " knowledge " of the individuation process and its

historical symbolism. "

While my dream differs in significant respects from that of Jung's patient,

it nevertheless confirms for me that I may be on the right path. I am also an

" intuitive type. " The greeness of the fish and its transformation into the

thick-furred deer/stag, (as well as the female with the too-small plastic

bag, as you suggest , need further work on my part. Perhaps the end of

the process will help me discover a suitable motto to be inserted in the

blank space at the top of the family crest. " Pisces Rising " (my ascendant)

comes to mind. However, with the advent of the Aquarian eon, perhaps it

needs to be more forward thinking. Maybe that's where the the deer/stag

comes in. I also like: Amor fati.

I'll be happy to share the fish when I'm able to, via cyberspace.

Thanks again to those dear ones here who have ventured with me into these

strange and personal waters. Your love, care and generosity are deeply

appreciated. I hope some of you will venture to stick a toe in the deep

water too. The fishing seems good now!

Happy New Year to all.

Agape,

Greg

[Guest guest]

Dear Greg,

I want to thank you for posting your dream and relaying your

experiences. It is this type of discussion that drew me to this fire in

the first place several years ago. Thanks for keeping that ember alive

and well. To help me picture your family crest, i tried sketching it

from your description. It was a neat excercise for me, kind of like

trying to remember a dream upon awaking. I have been looking for Aion

every time I visit a bookstore for the last year and can never find it.

Today, I will bite the bullet and just order it!! I ordered one of

Mike's books the other night after visiting Lambspring! Can't wait til

it comes in!! Love,

marshkan@... wrote:

>

> Dear ,

>

> I am writing to you on Sunday morning, the last day of the true Millennium,

> instead of trucking through the snow to church, here in frigid Kansas. My

> family experieced not only the cold, dark bleakness of the Solstice season

> this week, but also our own vulnerability to winter's harshness when our

> furnace suddenly died in the middle of the night. I can't thank you enough

> (and also you Mike for your recent post refering me to Lambspringk's

> zodialchemical renderings) for staying with me on this consuming personal

> quest. The soul-ful collective response from this group has confirmed for me

> that the spirit of Mercurious (invoked for us here by our collective birth

> mother - Maureen, the Nathair) remains alive and well. I am profoundly

> grateful to you all!

>

> , your encouragement to read Aion has been an eye-opener for me. I

> thought I had read much of Jung's prolific life's work - but had only read

> about Aion. It is an astonishing book - one born of true revelation, IMHO.

> I am particularly struck by the powerful infusion of both alchemy and

> astrology in the formulation of Jung's ideas therein. But the synchronicity

> for me, viz-a-viz the fish symbolism, was quite powerful. I was unaware of

> his treatment of it before you mentioned it to me here at the fire.

>

> The fish image holds strong numenous magnetism for me - and has for a few

> years. I might mention the significance of it relative to our family crest -

> something I had mentioned briefly before. I have always been drawn to the

> importance of family heritage and have done much research on my family' s

> geneology. Doing so has helped me understand mySelf and my own human

> tragectory. The crest is something I had not spent much time considering,

> in part because the images contained within it defied any rational

> explanation - at least up to now. Here is what it looks like: There is a

> large shield in the center, encased within heavy wooden armaments (crossed

> swords and helmet all around). This cental shield has a bright red

> background. On this background are two images: Two gold batons (with fluer

> de lese ends) are crossed over a silver fish, positioned horizontally. There

> is a second, smaller crest over this larger one, and outside the wooden

> military images. This shield also contains a red background. On the red

> background there are two wings. The left wing is red and contains small

> crossed golden batons. The right wing is gold and contains a small silver

> fish (positioned vertically). Above the small shield, at the top of the

> crest is an empty place, which usually contains a family motto. So within

> the crest is the astrological symbol of the two fishes of Pisces.

>

> With this image in mind, I will quote a section from Aion in which Jung

> (p.151) relates a patient's dream, one that contains some synchronicities

> with both my own dream and with the family crest. Her dream [with some

> deletions for brevity] follows:

>

> " I came to the bank of a flowing river...I had a fishing rod in my hand. I

> sat down on a rock and started fishing. ..Suddenly a big fish bit. It had a

> silver belly and a golden back. As I drew him to land, the whole landscape

> became alive: the rock emerged like the primeval foundation of the earth,

> grass and flowers sprang up, and the bushes expanded into a great forest. A

> gust of wind blew and set everything in motion. Then, suddenly, I heard

> behind me the voice of Mr. X [an older man whom she knew only from photgraphs

> and from hearsay, but who seems to have been some kind of authority for her.]

> He said, quietly but distinctly: 'The patient ones in the innermost realm

> are given the fish, the food of the deep.'... "

>

> Jung then reflects upon the symbolism of the dream thus:

> " This dream has all the marks of a 'big' dream, and it also has the quality

> of something 'thought,' which is characteristic of the intuitive type. Even

> though the dreamer had acquired some knowledge of psychology by this time,

> she had no knowledge whatever of the historical fish symbol. The details of

> the dream may be commented on as follows: The bank of the river represents

> the threshold, so to speak, to the unconscious. Fishing is an intuitive

> attempt to " catch " unconscious contents (fishes). Silver and gold, in

> alchemical language, signify feminine and masculine, the hermaphrodite aspect

> of the fish, indicating that it is a complexio oppositorum. it also brings

> about a magical animation. The older man is a personification of the

> archetype of the 'wise old man.' ......The dream sums up in a condensed form

> the whole symbolism of the individuation process in the person who was

> totally unacquainted with the literature of the subject. Cases of this kind

> are by no means rare and ought to make us think. They demonstrate the

> existence of the unconscious " knowledge " of the individuation process and its

> historical symbolism. "

>

> While my dream differs in significant respects from that of Jung's patient,

> it nevertheless confirms for me that I may be on the right path. I am also an

> " intuitive type. " The greeness of the fish and its transformation into the

> thick-furred deer/stag, (as well as the female with the too-small plastic

> bag, as you suggest , need further work on my part. Perhaps the end of

> the process will help me discover a suitable motto to be inserted in the

> blank space at the top of the family crest. " Pisces Rising " (my ascendant)

> comes to mind. However, with the advent of the Aquarian eon, perhaps it

> needs to be more forward thinking. Maybe that's where the the deer/stag

> comes in. I also like: Amor fati.

>

> I'll be happy to share the fish when I'm able to, via cyberspace.

>

> Thanks again to those dear ones here who have ventured with me into these

> strange and personal waters. Your love, care and generosity are deeply

> appreciated. I hope some of you will venture to stick a toe in the deep

> water too. The fishing seems good now!

>

> Happy New Year to all.

>

> Agape,

>

> Greg

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I ordered one of

> Mike's books the other night after visiting Lambspring! Can't wait til

> it comes in!!

*Thank you, . Which one?