Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 > I'm thinking of making a refreshing body splash with alcohol, aloe vera > juice, water and ess. oils > > Any suggestions about amounts to use of each?? Anbrosia, if I were making this I would use 70% 200 proof alcohol, aloe juice, and fragrance. I would forget about adding any more water. You may need to add some preservative. Check the archives as this topic has been discussed before. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 I was under the impression that mixtures containing 10% alcohol or more [by weight] were considered self-preserving.... Yea or nay on this one? Tina P. --- " Pat McDonnell " wrote: Anbrosia, if I were making this I would use 70% 200 proof alcohol, aloe juice, and fragrance. I would forget about adding any more water. You may need to add some preservative. _____________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 > I was under the impression that mixtures containing 10% alcohol or more [by weight] were considered self-preserving.... I use 70% pure alcohol (not booze that contains water) because California limits alcohol use to 70%; otherwise I would use a higher percentage. I was under the impression that alcohol preserved at about 35 to 40% but has said that it takes 70% for it to be effective. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 ******************** I use 70% pure alcohol (not booze that contains water) because California limits alcohol use to 70%; otherwise I would use a higher percentage. I was under the impression that alcohol preserved at about 35 to 40% but has said that it takes 70% for it to be effective. ******************** Makes you wonder where the *decidedly* lower percentages came from, doesn't it..... Tina P. _____________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 > Makes you wonder where the *decidedly* lower percentages came from, doesn't it..... Tina, I think part of the problem is that some people confuse proof with % of alcohol, and many home-crafters use vodka instead of denatured alcohol. If I were to write a formula as 70% alcohol and 30% other ingredients, there is no way to make that formula from 90 proof vodka. If someone were to take that vodka and use it at 70% they would end up with a little over 30% alcohol. The way explained it to me was that at lower levels you have an antiseptic; which is great if you are treating a wound, but not if you are trying to preserve a product. I think if you search the archives you will find a post where he mentions this and also states that for alcohol to act as a preservative, you need at least 70% (of 200 proof alcohol) Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 Well, my question then is why the alcohol is calculated using 70% of the total formula, rather than 70% of the water that's used? My understanding is that alcohol acts as a preservative for water/water based ingredients only, not for oils; if that's the case, shouldn't the amount of alcohol be figured based on the amount of water, rather than the total formula? For instance: if I'm making a cream that is 3 parts oils to 1 part water, adding 70% of the total formula is just under 3 parts alcohol. Adding 70% of the weight of the water, however, is .7 parts alcochol. I would think it would be similar to figuring T50 tocopherol mix for antioxident purposes: this is a concern for the oil phase only, not the water phase, so T50 is figured as a percentage of the oil phase rather than the total formulation. Tina P. --- " Pat McDonnell " wrote: The way explained it to me was that at lower levels you have an antiseptic; which is great if you are treating a wound, but not if you are trying to preserve a product. I think if you search the archives you will find a post where he mentions this and also states that for alcohol to act as a preservative, you need at least 70% (of 200 proof alcohol) _____________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 > Well, my question then is why the alcohol is calculated using 70% of the total formula, rather than 70% of the water that's used? Tina, there are several issues here with preservation only being one. The main reason I use 70% is to make my Spritzer legal in CA. If I could, I would use 80%. The main reason I use the amount of alcohol that I do, is because I want the spritzer to dry fast on the body. The more alcohol the faster it will dry. I don't really want to speak for and I am sure that if I misquote or if I have misunderstood him, he will correct me. I believe he meant that it takes at least 70% alcohol to preserve the other 30% of the formula, which in most cases is water or water based materials with the exception of the fragrance. > For instance: if I'm making a cream that is 3 parts oils to 1 part water, adding 70% of the total formula is just under 3 parts alcohol. Adding 70% of the weight of the water, however, is .7 parts alcochol. You really need to start thinking in percentages, you can't write a formula in parts as it is too confusing. What happens if you have 15-20 ingredients with the smallest being 0.05%. The smallest would have to be one part, but the largest could be 700 or more parts. A formula is always 100% every ingredient should be written as a % of the total formula. > I would think it would be similar to figuring T50 tocopherol mix for antioxident purposes: this is a concern for the oil phase only, not the water phase, so T50 is figured as a percentage of the oil phase rather than the total formulation. When you are putting a formula together it is true that your Tocopherol is based on the amount of oil that you use. It is also true that when you write it in the formula, you write it as a % of the total formula NOT, as a % of the oil. When Maurice or are hired by a company to formulate a product....let's say a cream, they probably make several test batches before they are happy with the final formula. I don't know how large a batch they make at a time, but I would assume it is somewhere between 4 and 8 ounces. When they and the company are happy with the product, the final formula will be written out and given to the company. It may be based on a 8 oz. bottle, but it won't be written like that. It will be written in percentages with the names of the ingredients and their INCI names, and somewhere there will also be a list of the ingredient manufacturers. From this the company can make a batch as small as 1 bottle or 1000 bottles because everything is in percentages of the total, and no matter how large a batch they make, that will never change. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2001 Report Share Posted April 11, 2001 >> Tina, there are several issues here with preservation only being one. The main reason I use 70% is to make my Spritzer legal in CA. If I could, I would use 80%. The main reason I use the amount of alcohol that I do, is because I want the spritzer to dry fast on the body. The more alcohol the faster it will dry. << I understand the cooling sensation, I have a spray with similar intention and effect. I was just trying to clarify the alcohol issue for folks who may be turning towards alcohol as a more natural preservative for other applications, such as a lotion or creme, which is not solely water based. >> You really need to start thinking in percentages, you can't write a formula in parts as it is too confusing. << All of my formulas *are* in percentages, kept in a sectioned binder with a separate area for notes on the date and conditions when each batch is made, suppliers for materials for each batch, info on whether or not there were problems reported w/ any goods from that batch, etc. The example I gave was stated in parts for the sake of brevity on the list and making the math more easily understood. Tina P. _____________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 Tina, In a lotion or a cream the addition of a lower alcohol like ethanol will often break your emulsion long before you have enough alcohol in it to be an effective preservative. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Re: body splash >> Tina, there are several issues here with preservation only being one. The main reason I use 70% is to make my Spritzer legal in CA. If I could, I would use 80%. The main reason I use the amount of alcohol that I do, is because I want the spritzer to dry fast on the body. The more alcohol the faster it will dry. << I understand the cooling sensation, I have a spray with similar intention and effect. I was just trying to clarify the alcohol issue for folks who may be turning towards alcohol as a more natural preservative for other applications, such as a lotion or creme, which is not solely water based. >> You really need to start thinking in percentages, you can't write a formula in parts as it is too confusing. << All of my formulas *are* in percentages, kept in a sectioned binder with a separate area for notes on the date and conditions when each batch is made, suppliers for materials for each batch, info on whether or not there were problems reported w/ any goods from that batch, etc. The example I gave was stated in parts for the sake of brevity on the list and making the math more easily understood. Tina P. _____________________________________________________________ Post message: Cosmeticinfo Subscribe: Cosmeticinfo-subscribe Unsubscribe: Cosmeticinfo-unsubscribe List owner: Cosmeticinfo-owner URL to this page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cosmeticinfo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2001 Report Share Posted April 12, 2001 ************************ In a lotion or a cream the addition of a lower alcohol like ethanol will often break your emulsion long before you have enough alcohol in it to be an effective preservative. - Young ************************ Thanks so much, . I'll pass that along to the gals who wanted to know. Tina P. _____________________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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