Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...

[Guest guest]

Just posted that to my new mom group. Now you've got me curious! Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLCCradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.nethttp://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/shop.htmlProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and

babyhttp://events.constantcontact.com/calendar/monthview?llr=l54fo5cab & eso=001ZABXYVzq37ea8EnRYjjrzA== We do not seek to establish any professional relationship with any person or entity as a result of any visit to this Website. Transmission of the information is not intended to create and receipt does not create, a doctor-patient or other professional relationship between you and any medical professional or other individual on this Website. Persons contacting us or any medical professional through this Website should not send personal health, confidential, or sensitive information, and should not ask specific medical questions. The Website is a public forum and any comments that you make or submit to us may be displayed publicly on that forum, so you should be cautious about making such comments. No

information submitted electronically through the Website or email to us will be treated as privileged, confidential, sensitive or personal health information unless we have previously entered into a written agreement with you to protect such information. Any person submitting confidential or sensitive information to us without first entering a prior written agreement with us to protect such information waives all rights to confidential protection or doctor-patient privilege. We assume no responsibility for the loss or disclosure of any information that you transmit to us via the Internet. Please call or visit www.cradlehold.net for an evaluation. Please see the attached should you desire more in-depth

lactation advice.Home Consultations Breastfeeding Home Visit Services:The best time to observe a mother and baby is when the baby is ready to nurse. We offer flexible scheduling in order to accommodate your baby's needs. A typical initial evaluation lasts approximately 1-1.5 hours. Appointments can be arranged during days, evenings and weekends. http://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/ To: Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 3:23 PM Subject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...

AHAHA!!! I see a teeny weeny study in the making. Let's find out for sure. Give mom a baby-weigh scale for the "test."

Have her weigh her baby before and after feeds (no pumping) for several feeds to get a sense of how much the baby takes at different times -- note the interval between the feeds.

THEN -- have her pump 1 hour after feeds (noting how much she gets) for, oh, 10 minutes double pumping. Then at the next feed (have to do this several times -- I'm sure can tell us exactly how many to get some sort of accuracy) do ac/pc weights and see what the differences are in terms of average amount that she (a) gets at a pumping and ( how much the baby takes from the breast when she does it both ways.

Ladies (and gentlemen, if there are any on this list), we simply CAN NOT say one way or the other because there are NO STUDIES to show if pumping an hour later really *does* take milk away from the baby, or if the breast compensates by making MORE milk!!

Who is game to do this?

Jan

I'm not sure that is true because 1) we don't know when that baby will feed and 2) don't we tell woman that they will never run out of milk as long as their is stimulation? Not trying to be snarky, just curious

Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLCCradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.nethttp://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/shop.htmlProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and babyhttp://events.constantcontact.com/calendar/monthview?llr=l54fo5cab & eso=001ZABXYVzq37ea8EnRYjjrzA==We do not seek to establish any professional relationship with any person or entity as a result of any visit to this Website. Transmission of the information is not intended to create and receipt does not create, a doctor-patient or other professional relationship between you and any medical professional or other individual on this Website. Persons contacting us or any medical professional through this Website should not send personal health, confidential, or sensitive information, and should not ask specific medical questions. The Website is a public forum and any comments that you make or submit to us may be displayed publicly on that forum, so you should be cautious about making such comments. No information submitted electronically through the Website or email to us will be treated as privileged, confidential, sensitive or personal health information unless we have previously entered into a written agreement with you to protect such information. Any person submitting confidential or sensitive information to us without first entering a prior written agreement with us to protect such information waives all rights to confidential protection or doctor-patient privilege. We assume no responsibility for the loss or disclosure of any information that you transmit to us via the Internet. Please call or visit www.cradlehold.net for an evaluation. Please see the attached should you desire more in-depth lactation advice.Home Consultations Breastfeeding Home Visit Services:The best time to observe a mother and baby is when the baby is ready to nurse. We offer flexible scheduling in order to accommodate your baby's needs. A typical initial evaluation lasts approximately 1-1.5 hours. Appointments can be arranged during days, evenings and weekends. http://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/

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To: Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 12:46 PMSubject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...

Dana, I, personally, would never have a mom pump an hour after breastfeeding. that's taking milk away from baby's next feeding.

Beebe, M.Ed., IBCLC Lactation Consultant/Postpartum Doula www.second9months.comwww.facebook.com/thesecond9months.

Subject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...To: " " < >Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 5:13 AM

From what I can see, there are two different scenarios here. One is a baby IS draining the breast and one is a baby NOT draining the breast. If a baby is draining the breast and pump is pumping for additional supply for supplementing (medical/non-medical) then I would pump an hour after WHEN POSSIBLE. If a baby is NOT draining the breast it is because their is a mechanical problem that will be benefited by artificial stimulation of pumping/hand expressing, right?

Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLCCradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.nethttp://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/shop.htmlProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and babyhttp://events.constantcontact.com/calendar/monthview?llr=l54fo5cab & eso=001ZABXYVzq37ea8EnRYjjrzA==We do not seek to establish any professional relationship with any person or entity as a result of any visit to this Website. Transmission of the information is not intended to create and receipt does not create, a doctor-patient or other professional relationship between you and any medical professional or other individual on this Website. Persons contacting us or any medical professional through this Website should not send personal health, confidential, or sensitive information, and should not ask specific medical questions. The Website is a public forum and any comments that you make or submit to us may be displayed publicly on that forum, so you should be cautious about making such comments. No information submitted electronically through the Website or email to us will be treated as privileged, confidential, sensitive or personal health information unless we have previously entered into a written agreement with you to protect such information. Any person submitting confidential or sensitive information to us without first entering a prior written agreement with us to protect such information waives all rights to confidential protection or doctor-patient privilege. We assume no responsibility for the loss or disclosure of any information that you transmit to us via the Internet. Please call or visit www.cradlehold.net for an evaluation. Please see the attached should you desire more in-depth lactation advice.Home Consultations Breastfeeding Home Visit Services:The best time to observe a mother and baby is when the baby is ready to nurse. We offer flexible scheduling in order to accommodate your baby's needs. A typical initial evaluation lasts approximately 1-1.5 hours. Appointments can be arranged during days, evenings and weekends. http://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/

To: Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...

I may be way off here, but I thought there was general agreement in the group that if the baby was draining the breast, pumping immediately after feeding didn't increase the milk supply appreciably, and waiting awhile would be helpful. If the baby was not doing a good job of draining the breast, then pumping right after the feed IS much more helpful.

Most often, I have moms pump whenever it works for them. We talk about what is going on with her, and why the pumping is important. Sometimes it is a baby issue -- sometimes it is a mom issue as to why we are pumping. Sometimes it is because mom wants to build a bit of a stash in the freezer. Not all my moms are pumping for the same reason, and not all of them have the same issues. Hence different strokes for different folks.

Always always I have in the back of my mind that if I make the plan of care too difficult for her to keep, she is likely to throw in the towel. Or the pump, as the case may be. What may be a perfect plan in my mind, is not necessarily a perfect plan -- or even remotely doable -- in the mother's mind. So while I might want her to pump after every feed, but she can only pump two times a day, she is applauded -- anything is better than nothing. And I tell her that.

Jan

I am going to recommend everyone read Morbacher's Magic Number. She has done extensive reading of the literature on milk supplies and does marvelous talks on exclusive pumping. I have not seen any evidence yet to suggest that pumping an hour after feeding serves any benefit for the standard situations when babies are incapable of removing enough milk to satisfy their needs. http://www.clinicallactation.org/article.php?id=8 & journal_id=5I would love to see the evidence upon which the suggestion to pump an hour after feeding is being made and I will definitely read the methods section for the drop-out rates. Given what I see in my clinics, I would think the drop out rates would be high -- just as they are for the SNS when it is used indiscriminately. As I already mentioned, I do use it for atypical situations, but NOT for the vast majority of situations that can more easily be fixed with a plan that is more doable for most mothers.Best regards, E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

Dee, you are a perfect person to do it, as is because you don't BELIEVE that the breast will regenerate any milk in the allotted period of time, and because you BELIEVE that the baby will be hungry and there won't be enough milk there.

Jan

I'd be game, but I have to find a willing mama. And to be fair, we have to be willing to share with the mother the possible repercussions: Baby may still be hungry after the feeding and may need to be supplemented because you removed milk from the breast an hour before the feeding (or two--depends if baby is a 2-hr feeder or a 3-hr feeder), and are you okay with offering the milk you pumped earlier as supplement by bottle or tube feeder or cup?

Dee

Subject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...To: " " < >Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2012, 5:13 AM

From what I can see, there are two different scenarios here. One is a baby IS draining the breast and one is a baby NOT draining the breast. If a baby is draining the breast and pump is pumping for additional supply for supplementing (medical/non-medical) then I would pump an hour after WHEN POSSIBLE. If a baby is NOT draining the breast it is because their is a mechanical problem that will be benefited by artificial stimulation of pumping/hand expressing, right?

Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLCCradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.nethttp://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/shop.htmlProviding the minimum amount of intervention for the minimum amount of time for maximum benefit to mother and babyhttp://events.constantcontact.com/calendar/monthview?llr=l54fo5cab & eso=001ZABXYVzq37ea8EnRYjjrzA==We do not seek to establish any professional relationship with any person or entity as a result of any visit to this Website. Transmission of the information is not intended to create and receipt does not create, a doctor-patient or other professional relationship between you and any medical professional or other individual on this Website. Persons contacting us or any medical professional through this Website should not send personal health, confidential, or sensitive information, and should not ask specific medical questions. The Website is a public forum and any comments that you make or submit to us may be displayed publicly on that forum, so you should be cautious about making such comments. No information submitted electronically through the Website or email to us will be treated as privileged, confidential, sensitive or personal health information unless we have previously entered into a written agreement with you to protect such information. Any person submitting confidential or sensitive information to us without first entering a prior written agreement with us to protect such information waives all rights to confidential protection or doctor-patient privilege. We assume no responsibility for the loss or disclosure of any information that you transmit to us via the Internet. Please call or visit www.cradlehold.net for an evaluation. Please see the attached should you desire more in-depth lactation advice.Home Consultations Breastfeeding Home Visit Services:The best time to observe a mother and baby is when the baby is ready to nurse. We offer flexible scheduling in order to accommodate your baby's needs. A typical initial evaluation lasts approximately 1-1.5 hours. Appointments can be arranged during days, evenings and weekends. http://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/

To: Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 8:05 AMSubject: Re: Re: pumping patterns -- show me the RESEARCH for using power p...

I may be way off here, but I thought there was general agreement in the group that if the baby was draining the breast, pumping immediately after feeding didn't increase the milk supply appreciably, and waiting awhile would be helpful. If the baby was not doing a good job of draining the breast, then pumping right after the feed IS much more helpful.

Most often, I have moms pump whenever it works for them. We talk about what is going on with her, and why the pumping is important. Sometimes it is a baby issue -- sometimes it is a mom issue as to why we are pumping. Sometimes it is because mom wants to build a bit of a stash in the freezer. Not all my moms are pumping for the same reason, and not all of them have the same issues. Hence different strokes for different folks.

Always always I have in the back of my mind that if I make the plan of care too difficult for her to keep, she is likely to throw in the towel. Or the pump, as the case may be. What may be a perfect plan in my mind, is not necessarily a perfect plan -- or even remotely doable -- in the mother's mind. So while I might want her to pump after every feed, but she can only pump two times a day, she is applauded -- anything is better than nothing. And I tell her that.

Jan

I am going to recommend everyone read Morbacher's Magic Number. She has done extensive reading of the literature on milk supplies and does marvelous talks on exclusive pumping. I have not seen any evidence yet to suggest that pumping an hour after feeding serves any benefit for the standard situations when babies are incapable of removing enough milk to satisfy their needs. http://www.clinicallactation.org/article.php?id=8 & journal_id=5I would love to see the evidence upon which the suggestion to pump an hour after feeding is being made and I will definitely read the methods section for the drop-out rates. Given what I see in my clinics, I would think the drop out rates would be high -- just as they are for the SNS when it is used indiscriminately. As I already mentioned, I do use it for atypical situations, but NOT for the vast majority of situations that can more easily be fixed with a plan that is more doable for most mothers.Best regards, E. Burger, MHS, PhD, IBCLC

[Guest guest]

I agree, . This is what I usually see, too.

Dee Kassing

I'm not sure that is true because 1) we don't know when that baby will feed and 2) don't we tell woman that they will never run out of milk as long as their is stimulation? Not trying to be snarky, just curious

Dana Schmidt, BS, RN, IBCLCCradlehold, DirectorBreastfeeding Education & Supportwww.cradlehold.nethttp://breastfeedinghomevisitservices.weebly.com/shop.html