Re: Jan

October 19, 2007

AHHHH the smoking table !!! I m very familiar with it LOL ! I was going to try

quitting ( again) but surprisingly, my docs DONT WANT ME TOO right now. They

figure I ve had enough stress this yr. I was SURPRISED !! I didnt carve anything

onto the table thu.

Lucky for me, I dont live in that neighborhood. SCARY!! But I looked at the

hospital ratings & Abbott got one of the best.

You brought back some good memories of sitting around chatting & laughing ( &

moaning & groaning LOL). Thanks Jan.:-D

warm hugs

tilly

ps: I heard a rumor they dont have a pain clinic at Abbott anymore but they

have other locations around town.

Jan Holman wrote:

I became friends with the people who were staying there too while I was

there, but only kept up with one of them after leaving. And have since lost

touch with her too. Was the picnic table still there when you were there

with all the names and greetings on it? Jan H

>

> yep, that s the place. You live there for 3 weeks, dorm style. It was

> h*** at the time but well worth it. I also made 9 friends there. We re

> having our 5th anniversary get together in Wisc. next month. Only people

> with chronic pain REALLY understand.;-D

> If you have a chance to go there, GO.

> warm hugs,

>

> Jan Holman > wrote:

> - did you stay at the Wasie center when you went to the pain clinic.

> My family spent a lot of time there when my nephew, father and mother were

> in the cardio unit at Abbot Northwestern. Really nice to have a place so

> close you don't have to drive, especially in that neighborhood. Jan H

>

> >

> > GOOD MORNING COLLEEN!

> > Lucky for me... I was bit by a cat when I worked at the vets clinic. The

> > infection got so bad so quickly that I was hospitilized the next day. My

> doc

> > came in & took a needle, poking around my bite. Then he poked himself !

> I ve

> > never heard a doc swear that much LOL !

> > I assured him I d never used hard drugs, I had a honey of 11 ys ( at the

> > time, now its 14) & he shouldnt need to worry. I was tested for

> EVERYTHING !

> > ( I volunteered, some people refuse) I didnt want the poor doc to worry.

> I m

> > clean :-) I ve also been sober 18 yrs.

> > Yes, I ve heard Liver problems can give you Fibro like symptoms, so can

> > statins & a bunch of other illnesses. Real Fibro is caused from

> imbalances

> > in your spinal fluid. They test ya for everything under the sun before

> dx

> > ing Fibro.

> > Thank you for your concern thu hun.

> > It is sad that my stepsister wont admit she needs help with her

> additions.

> > We tried for many yrs, nope, she s FINE! SHE DOESNT DRINK TOO MUCH ! I

> cant

> > change her & I gave up. She s not speaking to me after I caught her

> stealing

> > from our parents while Mom was dying.( she was trying to sneak Hummel

> > figurines out in a bag) I embarrassed HER lol ! OH WELLLLLL.......

> > Chronic pain is VERY hard to deal with. I started praying I WOULDNT wake

> > up in the morning. I have SEVERE fibro. OUCH ! I went into a lovely pain

> > clinic, the Sister Kinney Chronic Pain Clinic. They taught us many ways

> to

> > help deal with pain. They saved my life & my relationship, I was getting

> > UGLY ! Pain makes me GRUMPY! go figure LOL !

> > One main tool is HUMOR, laughter really is good medicine. I co-own a

> group

> > that s devoted to HUMOR! We send lots of jokes & give support when

> needed

> > too. If you d like an invite let me know.( its a private group) I have a

> > private Fibro group too. Your all more then welcome us. Support groups

> are

> > like lingerie, you can never have to much LOL!

> > Another is distraction, concentrate ONLY on whats going on around you

> > RIGHT NOW ! It takes practice but it works.Dont think about the pain,

> > think about whats going on around you.

> > I wish you luck in your pain control & your life sweetie. Lots of

> prayers

> > for you.

> > warm SOFT hugs,

> > tilly

> > ps: I m in St Louis Park, email me privately if you d like to chat or

> > call.:-)

> >

> > MsTigerHawk > wrote:

> > Hi , it's so nice to meet you. I also have fibromyalgia. Chronic

> pain

> > is hard to deal with. I've heard it said that everyone with fibromyalgia

> > ought to be tested for hepatitis C, as HCV can trigger fibromyalgia.

> >

> > Sorry to hear about your sister. I guess the only one who can change her

> > behavior and ideas is her.

> >

> > Colleen

> >

> > Murch > wrote:

> > Hi Colleen,

> > I live in the twin cities also. I m not a liver patient. My step sister

> > is. I joined this group to try to help her but she decided she s FINE &

> > doesnt need help. They wont give her a transplant due to her addictive

> > behaviours. So, while I cant help her, I fell in love with some of the

> folks

> > here & I stay to keep track of them. They re family to me now. (

> especially

> > Bob, he s a great guy )

> > My sister is slowly dying, she knows it but refuses to do the things the

> > docs need for a transplant, its very sad. We just lost our mother to

> bone

> > cancer in June.

> > I have severe fibromyalgia ( a nuerological illness) & I m disabled. I

> run

> > 3 support groups for people with chronic pain & fibro. We try to

> concentrate

> > on how to COPE with a chronic illness. Trying to help others gives me

> some

> > purpose in life :-)

> > Its nice to meet you & good luck hun

> > warm hugs,

> > tilly

> >

> > MsTigerHawk wrote:

> > I'm also in Minnesota. I live in the Twin Cities area.

> >

> > Colleen

> >

> > Murch wrote:

> > LOL Bob, I LOVED that movie !! FARGO !!

> > If you looked to the right on one freeway scene, you d see my house !

> Tom

> > & I used to eat breakfast at the restaurant they meet in ( Embers) & the

> car

> > dealership is across the freeway, about 3 blocks from me. Ya betcha ;-)

> I m

> > in Minnasooda too, don' cha knoww !!

> > good humor Bob!!!

> > love you buddy

> > tilly

> > & ya think your brains not working too good? ya remembered that line

> dint

> > ya? Oh, sure, ya betcha ! :-D

> >

> > robwalkingeagle@... wrote:

> > Didja see a funny lookin guy in a tan sierra...Ya? Oh, sure, ya betcha.

> > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> >

> > Re: My mom

> >

> > Colleen, where in MN do you live. I moved down here from Brainerd, lived

> > in

> > twin cities for a number of years. Originally from Appleton. Jan H

> >

> > >

> > > In Minnesota we have legislation that demands adverse event reporting

> > > from hospitals.

> > >

> > > Colleen

> > >

> > > Bracewell > wrote:

> > > I am about to say some inflammatory things, but I think this group

> will

> > > understand.

> > >

> > > Sepsis is often – far more often than we are told – contracted in

> > > hospitals.

> > > There is currently no effective requirement for hospitals to report

> > their

> > > rate of death from this cause. The figures we read are not accurate.

> The

> > > deaths caused by being IN the hospital have a lot to do with that

> > > hospital's

> > > reputation. I think that's because even if the figures aren't

> available

> > to

> > > the public or to regulating agencies, the personnel know.

> > >

> > > There are several situations I know of in which a patient entered the

> > > hospital and died there from " sepsis. " One was for knee replacement

> that

> > > was

> > > expected to be routine. Not my mom, but a beloved mom to me

> > nevertheless.

> > > Her untimely death has affected her family sadly.

> > >

> > > We are expected to believe that our hospitals are safe and sterile and

> > > clean

> > > and all that, and they may be, but they do hide their mistakes.

> > >

> > > Only doctors fill out certificates of death and they are not always

> > > accurate.

> > >

> > > So who CAN we trust? If I knew, I'd tell you.

> > >

> > > The decline in our standard of living may not be a sign of economic

> > > failure;

> > > rather, it may be part of the cure for our economic ills. --

> Hawken

> > in

> > > The Next Economy

> > >

> > > - - - - -

> > >

> > > My mom

> > >

> > > Posted by: " " abogada2@... abogada222

> > >

> > > Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

> > >

> > > Thank you for the links re: NASH. They were helpful. I've been lurking

> > >

> > > around, just learning from all of you and clicking on the links.

> > Cirrhosis

> > >

> > > is such a complicated disease!

> > >

> > > My mom was told sometime in 1964 after my brother was born that she

> had

> > a

> > >

> > > fatty liver, and that it should be " watched. " No further advice. In

> > recent

> > >

> > > years, she developed low platelets, which was diagnosed as

> idiosyncratic

> > >

> > > thrombocytopenia (meaning we don't know why the heck she has low

> > > platelets,

> > >

> > > but she does). It wasn't until January 2005 that she was told she had

> > >

> > > cirrhosis, following an endoscopy where they found some varices. She

> was

> > >

> > > also a diabetic and had thyroid problems. She was always overweight

> > >

> > > beginning in middle age, and she would not follow a diabetic diet.

> > >

> > > What is driving me crazy about my mother's death is that they are

> saying

> > >

> > > that it was due to non-alcoholic cirrhosis/liver failure, caused by

> > NASH,

> > >

> > > with acute renal failure, congestive heart failure, and sepsis as

> > >

> > > contributing (but not causative) factors. She went into the hospital

> the

> > >

> > > day after Labor Day with an infection due to a cat bite. She developed

> > >

> > > cellulitis, which cleared up while she was in the hospital -- it did

> NOT

> > >

> > > cause the sepsis, something else did. She had been getting fluid in

> the

> > >

> > > sack around her lungs every other week, and they did tap her lungs for

> > the

> > >

> > > third time a couple of days after she went into the hospital.

> > >

> > > Then, she started going downhill quickly. She had problems breathing

> > even

> > >

> > > after her lungs were tapped, which they said was due to congestive

> heart

> > >

> > > failure (she'd had a quadruple bypass four years before, but she had a

> > >

> > > normal cardiac exam two months before, and the day before she died,

> her

> > >

> > > cardiologist said her heart was fine after examining her in the

> > hospital).

> > >

> > > Her liver values were consistently within normal range the whole time

> > she

> > >

> > > was in the hospital, yet the doctors blamed the problems with her

> > kidneys

> > >

> > > and lungs on her liver. Honestly, I think she died of sepsis and they

> > > don't

> > >

> > > want to say that. Everything I've read about sepsis leads me to

> believe

> > >

> > > that was what the problem was -- difficulty breathing, low blood

> > pressure,

> > >

> > > kidney failure, etc., and I know that the odds of developing sepsis

> are

> > >

> > > greater if you are a diabetic or have cirrhosis, though I'm not sure

> > what

> > >

> > > causes it.

> > >

> > > She never made it out of the hospital. She died on 9/17, because they

> > >

> > > couldn't give her anything to keep her blood pressure up high enough

> > (and

> > >

> > > they couldn't do dialysis to jump start her kidneys because her

> pressure

> > > was

> > >

> > > too low).

> > >

> > > I know it is not going to bring my mom back, but I would really like

> to

> > > know

> > >

> > > why she died. Is it possible to have liver failure with normal liver

> > >

> > > values? Does that even make sense? Would there be a reason for them

> not

> > to

> > >

> > > want to say that her death was due to sepsis? She didn't have a whole

> > lot

> > >

> > > of symptoms -- the fluid around the sack of her right lung had just

> > > started

> > >

> > > in July, she did bruise easily, and she had varices that they were

> > > watching.

> > >

> > > Otherwise, I don't think she had any of the other symptoms that go

> along

> > >

> > > with cirrhosis that I've been reading about. I was really hoping that

> > she

> > >

> > > would get discharged and go to the university hospital, where the

> > director

> > >

> > > of the transplant team was following her, thinking that maybe the TIPS

> > >

> > > procedure would have helped with her lung problem (or maybe she would

> > let

> > > me

> > >

> > > try to see if I could be a live donor). But she never made it, and I

> > can't

> > >

> > > figure out why.

> > >

> > > Thank you for any insight that you may have.

> > >

> > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date:

> > > 10/15/2007

> > > 6:48 AM

> > >

October 19, 2007

- Yes it was the smoking table, I had forgotten that part. This was

in 1990. The maintenance department had gotten rid of one table because

they thought it looked so bad with all the carving on it. But the regular

families who returned periodically got so upset, they either brought it back

or said okay, we won't do it again. They had been leaving messages for

other families on it. Jan H

>

> AHHHH the smoking table !!! I m very familiar with it LOL ! I was going

> to try quitting ( again) but surprisingly, my docs DONT WANT ME TOO right

> now. They figure I ve had enough stress this yr. I was SURPRISED !! I didnt

> carve anything onto the table thu.

> Lucky for me, I dont live in that neighborhood. SCARY!! But I looked at

> the hospital ratings & Abbott got one of the best.

> You brought back some good memories of sitting around chatting & laughing

> ( & moaning & groaning LOL). Thanks Jan.:-D

> warm hugs

> tilly

> ps: I heard a rumor they dont have a pain clinic at Abbott anymore but

> they have other locations around town.

>

> Jan Holman <janholman@... <janholman%40gmail.com>> wrote:

> I became friends with the people who were staying there too while I was

> there, but only kept up with one of them after leaving. And have since

> lost

> touch with her too. Was the picnic table still there when you were there

> with all the names and greetings on it? Jan H

>

> >

> > yep, that s the place. You live there for 3 weeks, dorm style. It was

> > h*** at the time but well worth it. I also made 9 friends there. We re

> > having our 5th anniversary get together in Wisc. next month. Only people

> > with chronic pain REALLY understand.;-D

> > If you have a chance to go there, GO.

> > warm hugs,

> >

> > Jan Holman > wrote:

> > - did you stay at the Wasie center when you went to the pain

> clinic.

> > My family spent a lot of time there when my nephew, father and mother

> were

> > in the cardio unit at Abbot Northwestern. Really nice to have a place so

> > close you don't have to drive, especially in that neighborhood. Jan H

> >

> > >

> > > GOOD MORNING COLLEEN!

> > > Lucky for me... I was bit by a cat when I worked at the vets clinic.

> The

> > > infection got so bad so quickly that I was hospitilized the next day.

> My

> > doc

> > > came in & took a needle, poking around my bite. Then he poked himself

> !

> > I ve

> > > never heard a doc swear that much LOL !

> > > I assured him I d never used hard drugs, I had a honey of 11 ys ( at

> the

> > > time, now its 14) & he shouldnt need to worry. I was tested for

> > EVERYTHING !

> > > ( I volunteered, some people refuse) I didnt want the poor doc to

> worry.

> > I m

> > > clean :-) I ve also been sober 18 yrs.

> > > Yes, I ve heard Liver problems can give you Fibro like symptoms, so

> can

> > > statins & a bunch of other illnesses. Real Fibro is caused from

> > imbalances

> > > in your spinal fluid. They test ya for everything under the sun before

> > dx

> > > ing Fibro.

> > > Thank you for your concern thu hun.

> > > It is sad that my stepsister wont admit she needs help with her

> > additions.

> > > We tried for many yrs, nope, she s FINE! SHE DOESNT DRINK TOO MUCH ! I

> > cant

> > > change her & I gave up. She s not speaking to me after I caught her

> > stealing

> > > from our parents while Mom was dying.( she was trying to sneak Hummel

> > > figurines out in a bag) I embarrassed HER lol ! OH WELLLLLL.......

> > > Chronic pain is VERY hard to deal with. I started praying I WOULDNT

> wake

> > > up in the morning. I have SEVERE fibro. OUCH ! I went into a lovely

> pain

> > > clinic, the Sister Kinney Chronic Pain Clinic. They taught us many

> ways

> > to

> > > help deal with pain. They saved my life & my relationship, I was

> getting

> > > UGLY ! Pain makes me GRUMPY! go figure LOL !

> > > One main tool is HUMOR, laughter really is good medicine. I co-own a

> > group

> > > that s devoted to HUMOR! We send lots of jokes & give support when

> > needed

> > > too. If you d like an invite let me know.( its a private group) I have

> a

> > > private Fibro group too. Your all more then welcome us. Support groups

> > are

> > > like lingerie, you can never have to much LOL!

> > > Another is distraction, concentrate ONLY on whats going on around you

> > > RIGHT NOW ! It takes practice but it works.Dont think about the pain,

> > > think about whats going on around you.

> > > I wish you luck in your pain control & your life sweetie. Lots of

> > prayers

> > > for you.

> > > warm SOFT hugs,

> > > tilly

> > > ps: I m in St Louis Park, email me privately if you d like to chat or

> > > call.:-)

> > >

> > > MsTigerHawk > wrote:

> > > Hi , it's so nice to meet you. I also have fibromyalgia. Chronic

> > pain

> > > is hard to deal with. I've heard it said that everyone with

> fibromyalgia

> > > ought to be tested for hepatitis C, as HCV can trigger fibromyalgia.

> > >

> > > Sorry to hear about your sister. I guess the only one who can change

> her

> > > behavior and ideas is her.

> > >

> > > Colleen

> > >

> > > Murch > wrote:

> > > Hi Colleen,

> > > I live in the twin cities also. I m not a liver patient. My step

> sister

> > > is. I joined this group to try to help her but she decided she s FINE

> &

> > > doesnt need help. They wont give her a transplant due to her addictive

> > > behaviours. So, while I cant help her, I fell in love with some of the

> > folks

> > > here & I stay to keep track of them. They re family to me now. (

> > especially

> > > Bob, he s a great guy )

> > > My sister is slowly dying, she knows it but refuses to do the things

> the

> > > docs need for a transplant, its very sad. We just lost our mother to

> > bone

> > > cancer in June.

> > > I have severe fibromyalgia ( a nuerological illness) & I m disabled. I

> > run

> > > 3 support groups for people with chronic pain & fibro. We try to

> > concentrate

> > > on how to COPE with a chronic illness. Trying to help others gives me

> > some

> > > purpose in life :-)

> > > Its nice to meet you & good luck hun

> > > warm hugs,

> > > tilly

> > >

> > > MsTigerHawk wrote:

> > > I'm also in Minnesota. I live in the Twin Cities area.

> > >

> > > Colleen

> > >

> > > Murch wrote:

> > > LOL Bob, I LOVED that movie !! FARGO !!

> > > If you looked to the right on one freeway scene, you d see my house !

> > Tom

> > > & I used to eat breakfast at the restaurant they meet in ( Embers) &

> the

> > car

> > > dealership is across the freeway, about 3 blocks from me. Ya betcha

> ;-)

> > I m

> > > in Minnasooda too, don' cha knoww !!

> > > good humor Bob!!!

> > > love you buddy

> > > tilly

> > > & ya think your brains not working too good? ya remembered that line

> > dint

> > > ya? Oh, sure, ya betcha ! :-D

> > >

> > > robwalkingeagle@... <robwalkingeagle%40yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > Didja see a funny lookin guy in a tan sierra...Ya? Oh, sure, ya

> betcha.

> > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

> > >

> > > Re: My mom

> > >

> > > Colleen, where in MN do you live. I moved down here from Brainerd,

> lived

> > > in

> > > twin cities for a number of years. Originally from Appleton. Jan H

> > >

> > > >

> > > > In Minnesota we have legislation that demands adverse event

> reporting

> > > > from hospitals.

> > > >

> > > > Colleen

> > > >

> > > > Bracewell > wrote:

> > > > I am about to say some inflammatory things, but I think this group

> > will

> > > > understand.

> > > >

> > > > Sepsis is often – far more often than we are told – contracted in

> > > > hospitals.

> > > > There is currently no effective requirement for hospitals to report

> > > their

> > > > rate of death from this cause. The figures we read are not accurate.

> > The

> > > > deaths caused by being IN the hospital have a lot to do with that

> > > > hospital's

> > > > reputation. I think that's because even if the figures aren't

> > available

> > > to

> > > > the public or to regulating agencies, the personnel know.

> > > >

> > > > There are several situations I know of in which a patient entered

> the

> > > > hospital and died there from " sepsis. " One was for knee replacement

> > that

> > > > was

> > > > expected to be routine. Not my mom, but a beloved mom to me

> > > nevertheless.

> > > > Her untimely death has affected her family sadly.

> > > >

> > > > We are expected to believe that our hospitals are safe and sterile

> and

> > > > clean

> > > > and all that, and they may be, but they do hide their mistakes.

> > > >

> > > > Only doctors fill out certificates of death and they are not always

> > > > accurate.

> > > >

> > > > So who CAN we trust? If I knew, I'd tell you.

> > > >

> > > > The decline in our standard of living may not be a sign of economic

> > > > failure;

> > > > rather, it may be part of the cure for our economic ills. --

> > Hawken

> > > in

> > > > The Next Economy

> > > >

> > > > - - - - -

> > > >

> > > > My mom

> > > >

> > > > Posted by: " " abogada2@...

<abogada2%40sbcglobal.net>abogada222

> > > >

> > > > Date: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:33 pm ((PDT))

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for the links re: NASH. They were helpful. I've been

> lurking

> > > >

> > > > around, just learning from all of you and clicking on the links.

> > > Cirrhosis

> > > >

> > > > is such a complicated disease!

> > > >

> > > > My mom was told sometime in 1964 after my brother was born that she

> > had

> > > a

> > > >

> > > > fatty liver, and that it should be " watched. " No further advice. In

> > > recent

> > > >

> > > > years, she developed low platelets, which was diagnosed as

> > idiosyncratic

> > > >

> > > > thrombocytopenia (meaning we don't know why the heck she has low

> > > > platelets,

> > > >

> > > > but she does). It wasn't until January 2005 that she was told she

> had

> > > >

> > > > cirrhosis, following an endoscopy where they found some varices. She

> > was

> > > >

> > > > also a diabetic and had thyroid problems. She was always overweight

> > > >

> > > > beginning in middle age, and she would not follow a diabetic diet.

> > > >

> > > > What is driving me crazy about my mother's death is that they are

> > saying

> > > >

> > > > that it was due to non-alcoholic cirrhosis/liver failure, caused by

> > > NASH,

> > > >

> > > > with acute renal failure, congestive heart failure, and sepsis as

> > > >

> > > > contributing (but not causative) factors. She went into the hospital

> > the

> > > >

> > > > day after Labor Day with an infection due to a cat bite. She

> developed

> > > >

> > > > cellulitis, which cleared up while she was in the hospital -- it did

> > NOT

> > > >

> > > > cause the sepsis, something else did. She had been getting fluid in

> > the

> > > >

> > > > sack around her lungs every other week, and they did tap her lungs

> for

> > > the

> > > >

> > > > third time a couple of days after she went into the hospital.

> > > >

> > > > Then, she started going downhill quickly. She had problems breathing

> > > even

> > > >

> > > > after her lungs were tapped, which they said was due to congestive

> > heart

> > > >

> > > > failure (she'd had a quadruple bypass four years before, but she had

> a

> > > >

> > > > normal cardiac exam two months before, and the day before she died,

> > her

> > > >

> > > > cardiologist said her heart was fine after examining her in the

> > > hospital).

> > > >

> > > > Her liver values were consistently within normal range the whole

> time

> > > she

> > > >

> > > > was in the hospital, yet the doctors blamed the problems with her

> > > kidneys

> > > >

> > > > and lungs on her liver. Honestly, I think she died of sepsis and

> they

> > > > don't

> > > >

> > > > want to say that. Everything I've read about sepsis leads me to

> > believe

> > > >

> > > > that was what the problem was -- difficulty breathing, low blood

> > > pressure,

> > > >

> > > > kidney failure, etc., and I know that the odds of developing sepsis

> > are

> > > >

> > > > greater if you are a diabetic or have cirrhosis, though I'm not sure

> > > what

> > > >

> > > > causes it.

> > > >

> > > > She never made it out of the hospital. She died on 9/17, because

> they

> > > >

> > > > couldn't give her anything to keep her blood pressure up high enough

> > > (and

> > > >

> > > > they couldn't do dialysis to jump start her kidneys because her

> > pressure

> > > > was

> > > >

> > > > too low).

> > > >

> > > > I know it is not going to bring my mom back, but I would really like

> > to

> > > > know

> > > >

> > > > why she died. Is it possible to have liver failure with normal liver

> > > >

> > > > values? Does that even make sense? Would there be a reason for them

> > not

> > > to

> > > >

> > > > want to say that her death was due to sepsis? She didn't have a

> whole

> > > lot

> > > >

> > > > of symptoms -- the fluid around the sack of her right lung had just

> > > > started

> > > >

> > > > in July, she did bruise easily, and she had varices that they were

> > > > watching.

> > > >

> > > > Otherwise, I don't think she had any of the other symptoms that go

> > along

> > > >

> > > > with cirrhosis that I've been reading about. I was really hoping

> that

> > > she

> > > >

> > > > would get discharged and go to the university hospital, where the

> > > director

> > > >

> > > > of the transplant team was following her, thinking that maybe the

> TIPS

> > > >

> > > > procedure would have helped with her lung problem (or maybe she

> would

> > > let

> > > > me

> > > >

> > > > try to see if I could be a live donor). But she never made it, and I

> > > can't

> > > >

> > > > figure out why.

> > > >

> > > > Thank you for any insight that you may have.

> > > >

> > > > No virus found in this outgoing message.

> > > > Checked by AVG Free Edition.

> > > > Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.14.11/1071 - Release Date:

> > > > 10/15/2007

> > > > 6:48 AM

> > > >

October 23, 2007

MaC - thank you for that explanation. Tired as I am today, I learned

something. I have had two biopsies which confirmed the diagnosis of

cirrhosis. The first was around 6 years ago. The second was in March. On

that one, I was told that on a scale of 1 to 4, my liver damage was a 4 and

the progression of the disease was a 1. I am still trying to find out what

that really means, especially the progression rating. If I am already at

the top of the scale for damage, how can they determine a progression

rate?

What is the fourth state of liver disease?

Jan H

>

> Neither of you are ignorant. Hepatitis in this setting isn't referring

> to Hep A, B, C etc. It's referring to inflammation of the liver. Which

> Hepatitis means. Hepa=liver titis=inflammation.

> So you do have hepatitis of unknown origin. But you may not have

> cirrhosis unless of course they did a biopsy and confirmed cirrhosis

> which is the third stage of liver disease. Inflammation or hepatitis

> is the first stage.

>

> Most people hear hepatitis and think of the viral disease that it's

> most commonly associated with.

>

> MaC

>

> >

> > I have a question, and I hope I can put it so you can understand it.

> > Yesterday when I went to the hematologist and was ready to leave. I

> was waiting for the order for the blood work the doctor wanted before

> my next visit. The receptionist was having trouble reading my chart,

> and asked the other receptionist what something said. The second one

> said it said: Diagnosis, hepatitis.

> > I tried to tell them I didn't have hepatitis, I had cirrhosis of

> unknown origin. She told me that hepatitis is a general category they

> use for all liver patients. Is she ignorant or am I?

> >

> > Jan H

> >

>

--

Jan H

October 24, 2007

Great question Jan, Ive been wondering the same thing sort of.. all

these grades and scales are confusing. I hope you can enlighten us

Mac.. Well tomorrow I go for the doppler sonogram to see about the

portal hypertention and then I go for more bloodwork. It will be a

busy day. Today I had more energy than Ive had in a month, so I hope

I have some spoons left for tomorrow. I just woke up from long nap

and start my fast in an hour so Im waiting till the last minute to

eat something so that my blood sugar doesnt go to low before they

take the blood. About how long does a doppler sonogram usually take

anyway? God bless and good night, Debra

> > >

> > > I have a question, and I hope I can put it so you can

understand it.

> > > Yesterday when I went to the hematologist and was ready to

leave. I

> > was waiting for the order for the blood work the doctor wanted

before

> > my next visit. The receptionist was having trouble reading my

chart,

> > and asked the other receptionist what something said. The second

one

> > said it said: Diagnosis, hepatitis.

> > > I tried to tell them I didn't have hepatitis, I had cirrhosis of

> > unknown origin. She told me that hepatitis is a general category

they

> > use for all liver patients. Is she ignorant or am I?

> > >

> > > Jan H

> > >

> >

>

> --

> Jan H

>

October 24, 2007

That's what I was thinking too, Bob. I think one of the difficulties we have is

all of these doctors seem to describe things each his own way. Stage 4

cirhossis to me is max scarring/permanent damage to the liver. Yet, as we know,

a lot of people are still functioning with stage 4. I think this is because of

compensation, which is a huge variable the doctors can't really categorize well.

The way I see it, if you are stage 4 your liver can't progress worse in terms of

scarring, etc. Which leaves progression of the disease from that point to how

long your other organs compensate, and how well.

Whether a doctor would agree with those thoughts I don't know.

I've never managed to get a doctor to give me a stage 1, 2, 3 & 4. They don't

want to be pinned down to an absolute.

Re: Jan

October 24, 2007

That si very well put, . The only doc who gave mine a number was the

pathologist at the hospital when my PC called him. She told us verbatim what he

said:( her): give it a number.. (Him): " Stage 4, endstage. Necrosis, cirrhotic

pattern confirmed " . So I went to the surgeon's office, since he actually saw it

and asked him did it all look the same, and he said yes, there was no good or

bad spot in there, its all macronodular.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Re: Jan

That's what I was thinking too, Bob. I think one of the difficulties we have is

all of these doctors seem to describe things each his own way. Stage 4 cirhossis

to me is max scarring/permanent damage to the liver. Yet, as we know, a lot of

people are still functioning with stage 4. I think this is because of

compensation, which is a huge variable the doctors can't really categorize well.

The way I see it, if you are stage 4 your liver can't progress worse in terms of

scarring, etc. Which leaves progression of the disease from that point to how

long your other organs compensate, and how well.

Whether a doctor would agree with those thoughts I don't know.

I've never managed to get a doctor to give me a stage 1, 2, 3 & 4. They don't

want to be pinned down to an absolute.

Re: Jan

October 24, 2007

Yeah, its all really confusing, because if you look at pics of my

liver its all cirrhotic with bridging fibrosis. I was told stage 4

too. But not sure if he meant the NASH was stage 4 or the

cirrhosis... but Ive been functioning quite well for the past 2

years.

As far as the hepatitis thing goes it was explained to me the way Mac

said. Because when they told me I had NASH Non Alc Steto Hepatitis,

I too thought about viral hepatitis and was told that hepatitis means

any inflammation to the liver.

In explaining the cirrhosis progression the doctor used this analogy,

probably not that good of one, but he said its like walking along a

table top you go along nice and easy until you just fall off the

end. He guessed I had about 5 to 7 on this liver and that was 2yrs

ago.. All doctors say different things.. Its amazing to think they

all went to medical school and can describe the same disease in so

many different ways and degrees. I have Barretts syndrome which is an

erosion of the esophagus and considered to be pre cancerous. God I

pray I dont have to deal with that too.. New doctor did say that the

Barretts is definitely a real minus when it comes to Varices tho. My

older brother died from cancer of the esophagus that went to the

liver... or vice versa, but he did not have cirrhosis. Debra

>

> That si very well put, . The only doc who gave mine a number

was the pathologist at the hospital when my PC called him. She told

us verbatim what he said:( her): give it a number.. (Him): " Stage 4,

endstage. Necrosis, cirrhotic pattern confirmed " . So I went to the

surgeon's office, since he actually saw it and asked him did it all

look the same, and he said yes, there was no good or bad spot in

there, its all macronodular.

> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

>

> Re: Jan

>

> That's what I was thinking too, Bob. I think one of the

difficulties we have is all of these doctors seem to describe things

each his own way. Stage 4 cirhossis to me is max scarring/permanent

damage to the liver. Yet, as we know, a lot of people are still

functioning with stage 4. I think this is because of compensation,

which is a huge variable the doctors can't really categorize well.

The way I see it, if you are stage 4 your liver can't progress worse

in terms of scarring, etc. Which leaves progression of the disease

from that point to how long your other organs compensate, and how

well.

> Whether a doctor would agree with those thoughts I don't know.

>

> I've never managed to get a doctor to give me a stage 1, 2, 3 & 4.

They don't want to be pinned down to an absolute.

>

> Re: Jan

>

October 24, 2007

Well I 'll have to ask next time I go back too. I think I must be do to go back

and forgot to make an appointment so I need to call anyway. They've got a

NASH list ?

Re: Jan

> >

November 21, 2007

Abijann,

Thanks so much for your suggestions. I'll look at the

patientadvocate website this afternoon.

While the Social Worker connected with the Transplant Team was very

helpful, once a transplant was not being considered, she was no

longer able to assist us. Even though Steve is going to continue to

see the team hepatologist, she directed me toward a county social

worker.

The colonoscopy and endoscopy were performed by his

gastroenterologist and he's the one who said he would recheck again

in a year. However, I've not been that impressed with his knowledge

and treatment of Steve's illness and that is why Steve will be seeing

the transplant hepatologist.

The doctor has not taken the time to really explain to Steve what is

going on or the course of this disease. He's left that up to me and

Steve's friend. The gastroenterologist told me that there was no

need for Steve to see a nutritionis--that as long as Steve ate

a " healthy " diet limiting his salt, he should be fine. Meanwhile the

transplant doctor encouraged a meeting with a dietician which was

very helpful. Steve needs things spelled out in black and white--

good food/bad food. He's unable to make that judgement on his own.

Now that he has a list, he's sticking to it.

Steve's friend does have his medical and durable power of attorney.

The two of us have been assisting Steve with his Dr. appointments and

other issues.

All the doctors know that Steve lives alone and has these

limitations, and they don't seem worried about it. But, I am. I'm

concerned that he won't be able to monitor his health closely enough

to know when something is wrong. His ascites was really bad before

he decided to go to the doctor in the first place. That was the

beginning of this journey.

Thank you for your concern. I know you've been dealing with this for

several years and appreciate your taking the time to respond.

Hope you have a warm holiday. Jan

>

> There is a patient advocacy site here on the web, that may be of

some

> help to you and your friend:

> http://www.patientadvocate.org

>

> I would also get in touch with a transplant center that is closest

to

> you and ask them for help...sometimes a transplant social worker

can

> work right with the patient to see that he gets the care he needs

and

> the help he deserves. I would explain the circumstances to them.

>

> If he cannot afford his drugs, there are programs that help people

> who are below poverty level that he can apply for when he is under

> part D of Medicare coverage. I don't believe they take into

account

> his possessions as much as they do his income.

>

> The Area of the Aging sometimes will help patients that are

disabled

> or help give you information where others can help.

>

> Considering he has cirrhosis, the doctor may consider him eligible

> for hospice if he has varies and other things showing he is in the

> last stages of the disease.

>

> He needs to set up an advanced directive for someone to handle his

> affairs and talk to the doctors if he isn't able to do so or it

would

> help him since he is deaf.

>

> Most patients, with varies, are not told to wait a year to be

> rechecked..as if they become worse and start to bleed, it would be

an

> emergency situation that would need handled right away...that is my

> personal opinion. He should be with a gastroenterologist or

> hepatolgist now.

>

> Sometimes the doctor office will apply for medication directly with

> the drug companies where the patient won't have to pay anything or

at

> a very reduced rate and sometimes the doctors even have samples to

> give them to try before prescribing something that may not help.

>

> I hope this info is of some help....if I find out more, I will let

> you know.

>

December 30, 2007

Abijann - I really enjoy your posts because you know so much. And yes it is

nice not to have to follow the rule about not discussing religion and

politics. Especially for those of us who don't know how much longer we have

to live, even though faith might have been a part of life all the time, it

becomes so much more important now. It would be hard not to be able to

mention it.

And the scientific advances are also amazing. I don't know if it was here

or somewhere else where I read that they are now able to reverse cirrhosis

in mice. Maybe they will be able to translate that to humans in time for

some of us here. Wouldn't that be great. Jan H

On Dec 30, 2007 4:49 PM, abijann <no_reply > wrote:

> We live in a world of not just many different beliefs, but many

> different ways of looking at all things. That, to me makes it

> very special. If we can discuss anything at all and have it

> done in a peaceful environment, like the one here....there would

> be more peace for everyone and more love to go around. We all

> have questions and we all search for answers and it seems as

> soon as we think we know something...something else becomes clear

> to us that we didn't know before.

>

> Like when I was truly sure that alcoholic could not have a

> transplant unless they were free from alcohol for a period of

> 6 months. Then, Mac posted an article here that said they

> had changed that to being taken on an individual basis... To

> me that was a step forward that they would do this. We read

> many different things and it just takes one little thing to

> change, that can make a very big difference. I just read the

> other day about an instrument they use to remove tissue from

> the body very gently. It kills the cells and then removes

> them a little at a time with suction. This is an

> advancement I thought was just great. They may be able to

> remove tumors this way and not damage the tissue around

> them. They say it won't even hurt the vessel that our blood

> flows through, the doctor can feel when he is near them being

> they are a different type of tissue. Nothing I say here is

> written in stone...anyone can rebuke what I say and they

> have the right to do so.

>

> Bob is right, where else could a person bring up religious

> things and state what they believe and not go into a big

> argument about it all. I hope this group will always be this way.

> This shows true caring and true respect for other people, ourselves

> included.

>

--

Jan H

March 22, 2008

Abijann - I have a hemotologist who checks my cbc every month. My

Hemoglobin, Hematocrit and Red blood cell counts are all low. He prescribed

b12 shots and b12 pills every month, and I am also supposed to get a procrit

shot every week. Haven't gotten that yet because I live 75 miles from his

office, had to get permission from my insurance to get the shots, then had

to get permission from a local doctor's office to get the shots on a

courtesy basis as my pcp is 35 miles away. It has all taken time and then

when everything was set, my local pharmacy told me they can't get the

medicine. Hemo dr. office sent me the prescription and I will be dropping

it off at a pharmacy 35 miles from here on my way to get another angiogram

75 miles from here on Monday. Hopefully they will have it filled on Monday

if I come home then or on Tues. if they do an angioplasty w or w/o stent.

The hemo has assured me that I will feel a lot better after taking this shot

every week and that I should be able to take a trip this fall to see all my

kids. I will be having a complete metabolic panel done on Monday before

they do the angiogram. I have to keep hydrated so they can keep taking all

this blood out of me. Oh, I also take a multi vitamin with iron. I have

taken iron in the past, but not taking extra now. I have also had 2 pints

of blood transfused because of unexplained anemia. Anemia runs in my family

too.

One thing I am concerned about with the procrit shot. I will be getting a

months supply at the least, will have to carry it with me while traveling,

it is hot here now, does anyone know about heat restrictions for liquid meds

like this? Should I have a cooler with me to put it in?

Jan H

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 2:24 PM, abijann <no_reply > wrote:

> I could not finish my former post because I got interrupted.

> If you look on your blood testing: check the hemoglobin level and

> also the MHC. If it is out of range, It may mean you are iron

> deficient. But, to be certain, the doctor will do the ferritin

> and TIBC levels to be sure. He can then place you on iron

> accordingly. Iron isn't always given to people with cirrhosis...the

> doctor has to weigh the benefits of giving it.

>

> Usually, someone faints because the oxygen isn't reaching the brain in

> the correct quantities. This can be caused by a problem with the

> heart pumping the blood, or disease in the lungs, or not having

> enough hemoglobin to transport the oxygen on the red blood cells or

> not having enough red blood cells. Some people can faint if they

> hyperventilate because of an imbalance between carbon dioxide and

> oxygen levels. Stress can also cause someone to faint because they

> tend to breathe swallowly.

>

> I tend to faint easily. If I feel even slightly off, I lie down

> immediately...even if it is on the floor below me. I have hit my

> head and almost broke my glasses when I have passed out and fell.

> Having someone elevate your legs is good as this tend to make the

> blood flow back to the brain faster and helps the heart to pump

> more efficiently. A cold cloth on the back of the neck or

> on the forehead also helps. When you come to, breathe in and out

> slowly and deeply. Those ammonia capsules that they used in the

> old days should be thrown out the window...I utterly hate thoses

> things and they don't get you to breathe, they choke you up and

> make you hold your breath. I'm very iron deficient. Alot of women

> tend to be this way cause of their monthy periods. But any

> bleeding can cause a patient to become this way (ie: esophageal

> varies) The blood not returning well enough back to the heart

> can cause this also (considering it is taking a different route

> and has a harder time by passing the liver).

>

> I hope you get to discuss this with your doctor soon and find

> out for sure exactly what is wrong. Please let us know, as it

> may help others here also. Best Wishes.

>

--

Jan H

March 23, 2008

My insurance has approved it, and the pharmacy did tell me where I could get

it filled when they told me they couldn't. It is just time consuming with

the original insurance approval running out by the time I got approval to

have the shot administered, and then the prescription had run out by the

time I got the insurance approval again. I am going to get 5,000 a week to

start with, so they will have to use a partial bottle each shot. It does

come in 4,000 too, but my prescription is for 5,000 which caused a problem

also. And my insurance will only allow a month at a time and the original

prescription was for more than that. I think what we all need is someone to

take of all these things for us so we can get them done as soon as

possible. I know I forget to make phone calls I should make, and then

sometimes things take longer than need be if I had called earlier.

Frustrating. But as they told us when they sent someone here to discover

what we needed most urgently in the health care field, we did choose to live

in this middle of nowhere place, so we have to expect some inconveniences.

And as I have next to no income, I am on state insurance which really isn't

much different than Medicare, but you do have to get prior approval for a

lot of things. I am not complaining because I have heard that other similar

plan would pay for a lot less than the one here in Arizona. I was surprised

when I called them right after getting the diagnosis of cirrhosis that they

would cover any treatment, up to and including transplant. In many ways I

am lucky to have such a low income that I qualify for it because I read here

and other places about the problems some people have with private

insurance.

This Easter Sunday, I was given something above the usual Easter things to

be thankful for. I have had a problem with a pain deep in the pad of my

left foot just behind the toes. And my foot has been swollen in the same

spot for a few weeks now. I realized this morning that the pain was almost

gone. I had mentioned it to our pastor's husband last Sunday. So, when I

was talking to another lady who has many of the same medical problems I

have, he was standing across the kitchen counter from us. I asked him if

he had been praying for my foot since it was so much better this morning.

He just laughed and said " Jan, you and Carol (the other lady) have so many

problems that we just generally pray for both of you every day to take care

of what ever needs to be taken care of. Then he asked if I wanted him to

pray specifically for my foot, but I told him to continue the general

prayers and maybe mention the angiogram I am having tomorrow. We all had a

good laugh. But, I am sure he will be serious when he prays for us.

I am a little concerned with some of the side effects of Procrit, can't

remember what they are now, but will look them up again before I get the

first shot. Has anyone here taken procrit shots? Jan H

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 9:20 AM, abijann <no_reply > wrote:

> Procrit is a medication that should not be shaken and also should be

> kept cold, but not freezing. That means it should be placed in

> a cooler with ice, but the ice has to be away from the medication so

> it doesn't freeze. They sometimes place a tiny thermometer type

> paper in there, that if it turns red...it means the product may have

> been exposed too much to the ice. It should say, when you get it,

> what temperature it should be kept at. I don't know what amount you

> may have to take, but it comes in 10,000...20,000...or 30,000.

>

> Procrit is a drug that signals your bone marrow to make more red

> blood cells. The liver (some) and the kidneys (alot more) send this

> hormone called erythropoitin to the bone marrow to do this, but when

> damage has occurred...this becomes lacking and the patients red blood

> cells count go down. This may be why you are becoming faint.

> Procrit is also call " epogen " or " epoetin alfa " .

>

> Procrit is very expensive. I think that if the insurance doesn't

> cover it, that you ask the doctor if he could request a form from

> the company that makes it and see if they can give you a reduced cost.

> I would be sure that your doctor who prescibed this medication and

> who wants to have this testing done...that you have been unable to

> get and use this medication. They may put off the testing or

> procedure. It will depend on how low a red blood cell count you have.

> If you are not getting enough oxygen and feeling like you are passing

> out...doing any procedure puts you at more risk. This has me

> worried.

>

> Here may be help you might be able to use:

> http://www.needymeds.com/drug_list.taf?_function=name & name=Procrit

>

> I would call your local hospital and ask if they know a pharmacy

> that carries this, they might help you locate it. For a pharmacy

> just to tell you they don't carry it, isn't very professional...in

> my opinion...they should try to get in touch with another pharmacy

> for you and check on this. I used to work in a pharmacy and we

> did that lots of times. IF you have a form from your doctor saying

> that it is definitely medically necessary for you to have this

> medication and you present it to your insurance and ask for

> an exception to be made in your case...they might pay for it once

> it is determined to be necessary.

>

> Love your heart, you shouldn't have to be going through this.

> I hope this can be resolved.

>

> Here is more links about obtaining medications with assistance:

>

> http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20021100/51howt.html

>

> http://www.rxassist.org/

>

--

Jan H

March 24, 2008

Abijann - no you aren't making it harder for me. I know you are just a

caring person. I think my chances just went down some today to ever get on

any transplant list. I had the angiogram. it is a good news bad news

story. Good news- the blockage to my left kidney which used to be 80% has

gone down to 50%. Good news well kinda - they didn't do an angioplasty

today so got to go home. Bad news - the reason they didn't do the

angioplasty is that I have too many new blockages in my heart to fix them

with angioplasty and stents, so I am being sent to a surgeon for triple

bypass. I will have to wait for his office to call me before I will know

when they are going to do it.

I asked the dr. if he had any bypass jokes, but he didn't know any. So, if

anyone here has some, let me know. You are so right when you say it is the

creator who does all these miraculous things. For me, the most miraculous

isn't the healing I have experienced directly from him and with the

assistance of the doctors. It is the assurance I have where I will spend

eternity. That is why I can get through all this. Some times I

almost feel guilty trying to stay alive longer to spend time with my kids

and grandchildren when I know that heaven will be so much better than life

here on earth even with the kids and grandkids. But as I have said before,

I am doing what I can to take care of myself, and relying on God to decide

when it is time for me to go.

I know I am going to get a portable cd player when I have my surgery so I

can listen to my favorite music. Jan H

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 8:05 AM, abijann <no_reply > wrote:

> I had a very dear friend on here who was told she could not have a

> transplant and she wanted one so much. She finally found a doctor

> that would agree to it. When she was placed on the list, the same

> day she was called for a transplant. A few months after that, she

> died because of someone not recognizing an emergency situation. I

> still think of her often. Her determination and her struggle for life

> could not be matched. So often, doctors just tell the patient that

> they cannot have a transplant and the patient just gives up hope.

> No one should give up hope. My husband never received his transplant

> till he reach the top of the list and went over the top of the list

> ratings and he is still with me here today. You could say that they

> brought him back when he had almost his entire body over the

> threshold of deaths door.

>

> My husband told me I saved his life cause I recognized how bad his

> blood work was and got in touch with the right people at the hospital

> after a secretary would not let me talk to the doctor and then got

> him to the hospital to stabilize him before being transported to

> the transplant hospital. I did not save him...Our creator did. It

> isn't man that saves men...only God can breathe life into us and

> sustain the breath we have. Man is only an instrument he uses to help.

> I know it was a miracle...because everything that had taken place was

> way too organized, after that, and no man organized it...it just fell

> into place one thing at a time.

>

> When I read those articles, I thought of you. I just thought you

> would like to read them and maybe, if you wanted a transplant, you

> could discuss with your doctors about having one. I'm sorry if

> I made it more difficult for you. I hope that whatever you decide

> to do that you will be blest.

>

--

Jan H

March 29, 2008

I don't have family living with me, not sure how it would work with gmail

for someone to post for me. Will check into that. My daughter and

grandsons probably know already. My daughter is going to try to come over

for the surgery. She is going through a really rough time right now,

personally and financially, so I told her I would understand if she can't

make it. Younger son just had a baby, and other two are 2000 miles away.

After my angiogram when the doctor was talking to me, I asked him if he had

any bypass jokes, he thought about it for a while and then said no. So will

have to find somewhere else. Most of my " humor " comes from finding the

weird and funny as life is lived, so I am sure there will be some. Thanks

for appreciating it, not everybody does. They think I am rather macabre

Jan H

On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 10:27 AM, abijann <no_reply > wrote:

> My prayers are with you that your operation will be a success and

> that you will start to feel much better. You have been through

> quite alot. Your humor is a so much welcomed event here is the group.

> You have a wonderful outlook that is very much admired by me.

> I hope you will have someone in your family post here during your

> time away from us so we know how you are doing. Best wishes,

> dear friend.

>

--

Jan H

March 29, 2008

Following someone's suggest here or somewhere else, I went looking online

for a cd player. Couldn't find one small enough I would want to take to the

hospital which had a good rating, features I want, so am now looking for a

dvd player since I also have a series of Christian dvds which I haven't been

able to get to work on our tv player. Any suggestions. Jan H

> I don't have family living with me, not sure how it would work with gmail

> for someone to post for me. Will check into that. My daughter and

> grandsons probably know already. My daughter is going to try to come over

> for the surgery. She is going through a really rough time right now,

> personally and financially, so I told her I would understand if she can't

> make it. Younger son just had a baby, and other two are 2000 miles away.

>

> After my angiogram when the doctor was talking to me, I asked him if he

> had any bypass jokes, he thought about it for a while and then said no. So

> will have to find somewhere else. Most of my " humor " comes from finding the

> weird and funny as life is lived, so I am sure there will be some. Thanks

> for appreciating it, not everybody does. They think I am rather macabre

> Jan H

>

> On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 10:27 AM, abijann <no_reply >

> wrote:

>

> > My prayers are with you that your operation will be a success and

> > that you will start to feel much better. You have been through

> > quite alot. Your humor is a so much welcomed event here is the group.

> > You have a wonderful outlook that is very much admired by me.

> > I hope you will have someone in your family post here during your

> > time away from us so we know how you are doing. Best wishes,

> > dear friend.

> >

>

> --

> Jan H

--

Jan H

March 29, 2008

Jan, Just ask a designated relative or close friend to join the group on your

behalf. Then they can post for you to let every one know what s going on with

you. The worst thing is when we get close to our friends here, and they flat out

dissapear off the radar, and no one knows anything. I was biting my nails when

Penny had her transplant. So, please ask someone , and lets get them signed up.

Sharon is a member here, so that she can post to this group for me, when I cant.

Love, Bobby,.

Re: Jan

I don't have family living with me, not sure how it would work

with gmail