Guest guest Posted October 30, 2000 Report Share Posted October 30, 2000 Shaye, I am a little confused because your formula does not add to 100%. By my math it totals to only 31.83%. I may be able to help you but I need correct information about the contents of your product. A formula should add to 100%. Perhaps you have not properly calculated the percentages in your formula. Get back to me either in private or on the list with additional details and I will attempt to help you salvage you product. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Thin lotion help I made lotion today and it turned out being a bit on the thin side. Is there anything I can mix to it to thicken it up after its cooled? Or will I need to heat it up and then add some preservative in again? Also is it too late to mix in Jojoba oil in with it with out it separating? My recipe consisted of: OIl 4.55% (almond, apricot kernal and grapeseed) Water 22.58% (distilled of course) Emuslifying wax 4.55% ( ya ya i know, slap my hands ) Germall plus .15% (the powder kind) I do have a little of Xanathan gum but have never used it and have no experience in how to use it. Can anyone help?? Thanks soo much! Shaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2000 Report Share Posted October 30, 2000 oops sorry, Ive got to stop typing in the dark . here it is again: OIl 22.58% Water 72.73% Emuls. Wax 4.55% Germall plus .15% sorry about that . Thanks! Shaye Thin lotion help I made lotion today and it turned out being a bit on the thin side. Is there anything I can mix to it to thicken it up after its cooled? Or will I need to heat it up and then add some preservative in again? Also is it too late to mix in Jojoba oil in with it with out it separating? My recipe consisted of: OIl 4.55% (almond, apricot kernal and grapeseed) Water 22.58% (distilled of course) Emuslifying wax 4.55% ( ya ya i know, slap my hands ) Germall plus .15% (the powder kind) I do have a little of Xanathan gum but have never used it and have no experience in how to use it. Can anyone help?? Thanks soo much! Shaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2000 Report Share Posted October 30, 2000 Shaye, I don't know if you saw my previous post about using a Waring Blendor or Osterizer but this is a classic example where it will be most useful. If you have such a machine in your home then take a portion of your thin lotion, about 15% of the batch, and put it in to the blender jar. Start the agitation to form a good vortex. Weigh an amount of the xanthan gum equal to 0.10% of the entire batch. Add it to the vortex of your mixer. It will immediately begin to thicken. Increase the mixer speed and continue to mix until smooth. This will take about 5 minutes or more and should be very, very thick. Now add this concentrate back to your main batch with agitation. Mix the entire batch until uniform. This may take more than 10 minutes depending on how thick the batch gets as you dilute the concentrate. This should increase the batch viscosity significantly. Several times recently I have posted the methods for controlling O/W emulsion viscosity. There are three methods. 1) Increase the viscosity of the water phase. 2) Increase the concentration of the oil phase. 3) Increase the melt point of the oil phase. The method I have described above is number one. You may want to add a humectant to your lotion to improve the rub in characteristics. This could be glycerin, PG or 1,3-Butylene Glycol. All of these will help the rub in and improve the freeze thaw stability of your product. Usage level is typically 3-5% W/W and QS the water. A fatty alcohol will also increase the viscosity of your product. This is method number 3. Typical fatty alcohols are cetyl, cetearyl and stearyl alcohols. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Thin lotion help I made lotion today and it turned out being a bit on the thin side. Is there anything I can mix to it to thicken it up after its cooled? Or will I need to heat it up and then add some preservative in again? Also is it too late to mix in Jojoba oil in with it with out it separating? My recipe consisted of: OIl 4.55% (almond, apricot kernal and grapeseed) Water 22.58% (distilled of course) Emuslifying wax 4.55% ( ya ya i know, slap my hands ) Germall plus .15% (the powder kind) I do have a little of Xanathan gum but have never used it and have no experience in how to use it. Can anyone help?? Thanks soo much! Shaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 , thanks for this, it really helps. In fact I do use an immersion blender or aka stick blender. I'm going to try this today. Can the glycerin also be added as well? or is it someting that has to be added at the beginning? I dont have PG or 1,3-Butylene Glycol. Can I also add the Jojoba at this stage? Usually I add it with the oils but I dont know what I was thinking and forgot it. I think it adds a really nice feel to the lotion. Also, not to sound like a dummy but I got lost in this sentence : " Usage level is typically 3-5% W/W and QS the water. " What does W/W and QS mean? Thanks again! Shaye RE: Thin lotion help Shaye, I don't know if you saw my previous post about using a Waring Blendor or Osterizer but this is a classic example where it will be most useful. If you have such a machine in your home then take a portion of your thin lotion, about 15% of the batch, and put it in to the blender jar. Start the agitation to form a good vortex. Weigh an amount of the xanthan gum equal to 0.10% of the entire batch. Add it to the vortex of your mixer. It will immediately begin to thicken. Increase the mixer speed and continue to mix until smooth. This will take about 5 minutes or more and should be very, very thick. Now add this concentrate back to your main batch with agitation. Mix the entire batch until uniform. This may take more than 10 minutes depending on how thick the batch gets as you dilute the concentrate. This should increase the batch viscosity significantly. Several times recently I have posted the methods for controlling O/W emulsion viscosity. There are three methods. 1) Increase the viscosity of the water phase. 2) Increase the concentration of the oil phase. 3) Increase the melt point of the oil phase. The method I have described above is number one. You may want to add a humectant to your lotion to improve the rub in characteristics. This could be glycerin, PG or 1,3. All of these will help the rub in and improve the freeze thaw stability of your product. Usage level is typically 3-5% W/W and QS the water. A fatty alcohol will also increase the viscosity of your product. This is method number 3. Typical fatty alcohols are cetyl, cetearyl and stearyl alcohols. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Shaye, You cannot add the jojoba without reheating the product to the emulsification temperature. At that point you will have destroyed the efficacy of the preservative system. Also, at this point you probably do not want to add the glycerin to your formula. Glycerin, propylene Glycol and Butylene Glycol all should be incorporated into your formulation from the beginning not as an afterthought. Another point to keep in mind is to only make one change at a time to your formulations. This way you will be able to see the effects of your change more easily. When you make numerous and radical changes to a formulation it becomes difficult to determine the individual effects of the changes. QS means quantity sufficient. When you QS the water in a formula it is adjusted to bring the total formula percentage to total 100%. In the case of adding the xanthan gum to your formulation, if you find that 0.10% xanthan is enough to give you an acceptable viscosity then when you rewrite the formulation down you would qs the water or subtract the 0.10% from the water amount so that your formula adds to 100. W/W is the terminology to indicate that your formula is written as weight for weight. This is in contrast to v/v or w/v. The former is volume for volume and the later is weight for volume. These are important notations because of the differences between fluid measure and mass. Fluid ounce of water does not equal an ounce of water. In a laboratory environment some solutions that are used for analysis are volumetric and some mix mass with volume. The majority of your formulations should all be w/w but without the signification of w/w it leaves it open to misinterpretation. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com RE: Thin lotion help Shaye, I don't know if you saw my previous post about using a Waring Blendor or Osterizer but this is a classic example where it will be most useful. If you have such a machine in your home then take a portion of your thin lotion, about 15% of the batch, and put it in to the blender jar. Start the agitation to form a good vortex. Weigh an amount of the xanthan gum equal to 0.10% of the entire batch. Add it to the vortex of your mixer. It will immediately begin to thicken. Increase the mixer speed and continue to mix until smooth. This will take about 5 minutes or more and should be very, very thick. Now add this concentrate back to your main batch with agitation. Mix the entire batch until uniform. This may take more than 10 minutes depending on how thick the batch gets as you dilute the concentrate. This should increase the batch viscosity significantly. Several times recently I have posted the methods for controlling O/W emulsion viscosity. There are three methods. 1) Increase the viscosity of the water phase. 2) Increase the concentration of the oil phase. 3) Increase the melt point of the oil phase. The method I have described above is number one. You may want to add a humectant to your lotion to improve the rub in characteristics. This could be glycerin, PG or 1,3. All of these will help the rub in and improve the freeze thaw stability of your product. Usage level is typically 3-5% W/W and QS the water. A fatty alcohol will also increase the viscosity of your product. This is method number 3. Typical fatty alcohols are cetyl, cetearyl and stearyl alcohols. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Ok great! Now I understand. Thanks !! Shaye RE: Thin lotion help Shaye, I don't know if you saw my previous post about using a Waring Blendor or Osterizer but this is a classic example where it will be most useful. If you have such a machine in your home then take a portion of your thin lotion, about 15% of the batch, and put it in to the blender jar. Start the agitation to form a good vortex. Weigh an amount of the xanthan gum equal to 0.10% of the entire batch. Add it to the vortex of your mixer. It will immediately begin to thicken. Increase the mixer speed and continue to mix until smooth. This will take about 5 minutes or more and should be very, very thick. Now add this concentrate back to your main batch with agitation. Mix the entire batch until uniform. This may take more than 10 minutes depending on how thick the batch gets as you dilute the concentrate. This should increase the batch viscosity significantly. Several times recently I have posted the methods for controlling O/W emulsion viscosity. There are three methods. 1) Increase the viscosity of the water phase. 2) Increase the concentration of the oil phase. 3) Increase the melt point of the oil phase. The method I have described above is number one. You may want to add a humectant to your lotion to improve the rub in characteristics. This could be glycerin, PG or 1,3. All of these will help the rub in and improve the freeze thaw stability of your product. Usage level is typically 3-5% W/W and QS the water. A fatty alcohol will also increase the viscosity of your product. This is method number 3. Typical fatty alcohols are cetyl, cetearyl and stearyl alcohols. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 tsk, tsk, ... water is one of the only chemicals in which volume = weight...one fluid ounce of water DOES weigh one ounce...hence the specific gravity figure for water... *grin* I'm sure you meant to say " oil " , not " water " ... jules in vancouver Fluid ounce of water does not equal an ounce of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2000 Report Share Posted October 31, 2000 Jules, Sorry to disagree with you here but the volume that water occupies changes with the temperature of the water and that is why SpG is listed for a given temperature. The mass of water does not change with temperature. BTW, one fluid once of water occupies 29.57 ml. Think for a moment what the weight of that would be. Here is a clue, it is not 28.35 grams. Young KY Labs Innovators of Fine Personal Care Products www.kylabs.com Re: Thin lotion help tsk, tsk, ... water is one of the only chemicals in which volume = weight...one fluid ounce of water DOES weigh one ounce...hence the specific gravity figure for water... *grin* I'm sure you meant to say " oil " , not " water " ... jules in vancouver Fluid ounce of water does not equal an ounce of water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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