Enzymes and Autism

[Guest guest]

I've had my 10 yr old autistic son on the GFCF diet for a year and saw some improvement but took him off, due to concerns of the long term effects of missing nutritional opportunities from dairy and grains. I have a bottle of enzymes but that is 3 more pills to get down him every day. He has no problem with cultured dairy products and soaked grains. He has regressed some since being off the diet, though. Would the cabbage juice tonic and beet kvass provide him with enough enzymes that the capsules would?

Thanks,

Ann

[Guest guest]

Ann,

just left for 2 weeks of vacation. If you can be patient, I'm sure

she would correspond with you regarding autism and NT. Her 5yod is

autistic.

Ruth

[Guest guest]

Ruth ,

I will check back again in a couple of weeks.

Thanks,

Ann

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann :-)

I know exactly how you feel and why you pulled your son back off the

GFCF diet. It is so hard to know how badly they do without the diet,

but also knowing that they are not getting enough nutrition with such

restricted diets.

I have a 4 yr old (will be 5 on the 19th) autistic daughter, and

believe me, we have certainly been there. It's so hard to know what

to do.

I have to tell you, I am pretty skeptical of most things out there

dealing with autism now, but when I read through some of the website

at www.westonaprice.org , I just KNEW that this is what my daughter

needed. The thing that helped me the most was in the book review

section. Here is a link to the specific review

http://www.westonaprice.org/eat_right.html

After reading this, I decided to bite the bullet and give this 'diet'

a try. The first time I soaked some wheat flour and made it into

muffins for my daughter and gave her one to eat was one of the

hardest things I had ever done. I was scared to death that we would

have a major gluten reaction and two weeks of hell to pay for it, but

it never happened. My daughter (who had been GFCF for 2 years before

this) has never had one negative reaction to any of the foods in the

book _Nourishing Traditions_, (yet she still has VERY bad reactions

to untreated grains) and has in fact had very positive results from

these foods. I just KNOW that her body is getting nutrients it never

could access before.

I would seriously suggest getting the book if you don't already have

it, and trying some of the foods for your son. I would also suggest

trying some of the sourdough recipes I posted recently. My daughter

loves them, and I love that she can eat them and get some of these

important nutrients. My formerly VERY picky child is now trying new

foods all the time. She no longer restricts herself to just 3 or 4

foods all the time. She is no longer afraid that new foods are going

to hurt her. In less than 2 years, my daughter has gone from 128 to

65 on the ATEC test, and we are not loading her up on supplements,

and we are definately not going the ABA route (I am not opposed to

those who do, we just didn't feel it was right for us. We felt that

we should get down to the root issues rather than just treating

individual symptoms, and as her body healed, she would learn these

things on her own, and this is EXACTLY what is happening. My daughter

is doing just as well as another child I know who is getting 40 hours

ABA each week :-) ). The only things we are doing right now are

mercury chelation (she is austic due to vaccination, having had tons

of mercury injected directly into her little body at 12 1/2 months

old - she was TOTALLY normal before that day, the change was very

apparant), and following the food suggestions in _Nourishing

Traditions_.

As far as the enzymes you suggested, I have no idea if they would

help or not. We have some of the enzymes from Kirkman for when we are

out and gets ahold of something she shouldn't, and they work

GREAT, but I can't imaging trying to give them to her at every meal.

Of course for us, giving them to her involves mixing the contents of

the capsule with a bit of liquid, sitting on her and syringing it

down her throat with her kicking and spitting the entire time ;-)

Swallowing pills is not an option at this point.

Would your son actually eat these foods? There is NO WAY would

at this point. But if he would, I would try. However, if you try some

of the soaked grains etc, you may not even need to worry about it so

much (I am NOT saying that these foods shouldn't be eaten anyway,

just that maybe you wouldn't have to be so vigilant about making sure

he ate them EVERY TIME he ate gluten too).

I hope this helps some. PLEASE feel free to write me privately at any

time if you want to discuss any of the unique issues of autism and

diet, etc etc etc. I am on vacation now (checking my e-mail on my

MIL's computer - can we say ADDICT!), but I will be home in two

weeks. I will also eventually get to your message if you write now,

it just may take a little longer than normal.

Best wishes to you and your son!

> I've had my 10 yr old autistic son on the GFCF diet for a year and

saw some

> improvement but took him off, due to concerns of the long term

effects of

> missing nutritional opportunities from dairy and grains. I have a

bottle of

> enzymes but that is 3 more pills to get down him every day. He has

no

> problem with cultured dairy products and soaked grains. He has

regressed

> some since being off the diet, though. Would the cabbage juice

tonic and

> beet kvass provide him with enough enzymes that the capsules would?

>

> Thanks,

> Ann

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I have not been paying attention to everybody's names, but were you the one having so much trouble with the cod liver oil? Did you read the article about the treatment of autism with cod liver oil in our magazine Wise Traditions? also, have you consulted with Dr. Megson in Richmond, VA who has successfully treated autism with high levels of vitamin A and choline? Sally

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally.

No, it wasn't I who was having problems with the cod liver oil,

although we do use it, but not nearly as often as we should. I will

have to work harder on that.

I do not get the magazine yet, in fact, I am going to order it as

soon as we get back from Florida. I am VERY much looking forward to

it.

I haven't consulted with Dr. Megson. For some reason, the thought

just never crossed my mind that 'I' could consult with her, don't ask

me why. I guess it was just one of those 'not using my brain'

moments. I am, however, very familiar with her work. It totally

fascinates me. I had consulted with another doctor who had tried Dr.

Megsons approach, but when she started seeing good results, she

suddenly had problems accessing the choline, as the pharmaceutical

company that produced the product quit making it (the 'conspiracy

theorist' in me thinks it may have to do with them not wanting the

success in autistic children, because it might then prove the vaccine

autism connection Dr. Megson advocates - she feels that certain

vaccines totally deplete our vitamin A stores, which is why her

treatment works so well, building those stores back up, and also

having the choline 'flip' the switch back in the brain that the

pertussis vaccine messed with). Actually, they still made a product,

but they included a dye in it that they were very well aware causes

problems with many autistic children, so their parents and doctors

generally won't use it for them. Last I heard, this was supposed to

be resolved in the near future, but I haven't checked back yet. Maybe

I will try to get with Dr. Megson myself and see what I can do.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write about this. I really

appreciate it :-)

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

Yes, I would call Dr. Megson. In the meantime, egg yolks are your best bet.

How about smoothies (from NT) with plenty of egg yolks in them--they are easy and taste good. Just call them milkshakes. And do try to do the cod liver oil every day. Radiant Life has a high-vitamin cod liver oil that has 2 times the vitamin A as the normal stuff. Their phone number is 888-593-8333.

Also, plenty of butter. Please keep me posted. Sally

[Guest guest]

>>> I posted a few weeks ago and asked about statistics for the

Houstonni products and got as the reply to contact the manufacturer.

When you subscribed to this group you would have received a 7 month

report with " statistics " on these particular enzymes as found by

this group. It was a very good undertaking that produced a great

deal of information that many people and companies have benefited

from. When you asked, this was brought up again with additional

information from the company. I will send it to you again, just to

be sure we are talking about the same thing. It is quite well

documented, and you can take from it what you like. This was

objective when done, although some people were not happy with the

conclusions, but others were quite happy. No matter what type of

study one does, someone will not like it and others will.

Considering that many organizations have been involved with autism

and knew about enzymes for over a decade, it is quite awesome that

parents/individuals did this on their own, when other organizations

had ample opportunity as well as resources to do this many years

earlier and elected not to.

>>>I also worked with several families using the products and I

found some consistencies which support the general use of enzymes in

autism but also some reports of side-effects which are not

consistent with past experience with enzyme usage and appear to be

unique to this product and forum.

Can you name the experiences you have seen that are not consistent

with what is reported here? There is always room to learn and grow.

Drawing from more experiences can add to improved guidelines. The

next sentence is really long so I will break it into pieces for my

questions:

>>I also found that the way in which information is dispersed here

is often biased

In what way is it biased and dispersed in that way which is separate

that just any person having an individual opinion?

>>and based on results and reactions for individuals with a unique

set of circumstances

Each person will have a unique set of circumstances so I do not

understand how this is meaningful. I, at least, type to look at each

person as unique and so not shoot off a blanket statement that I

expect to everyone and to which everyone should conform. Please

explain what you mean by this.

>>>which generally included limited or self-limited diets prior to

the addition of the enzymes

diet is per the choice of the individual so what a person " brings to

the table " is what they choose to bring. This group does not dictate

what food choices a person should abide by. So yes, each person

chooses the diet or non-diet they follow. Is this what you meant?

>>>and a slow but as yet unproven return for some foods, although

this is the outcome for which the product is being acclaimed.

I disagree with this. I see most people being able to return most

foods back to the diet if that is what they choose to do. I

certainly was able to immediately add back the foods I wanted to,

added back in a ton more foods right away as did many more

people. But not everyone can automatically add back in every food.

Some need yeast treatment, or chelation, or meds, or behavioral

therapy, or other interventions. However, this is not a failing on

the part of any person. It is an individual situation and no one is

harassed for not adding in back certain foods, nor are they

told " you are just not doing it right, " nor are they told " you must

do it this way or you are a neglectful parent " as other avenues do.

I see these as positives.

I am glad people see positive results with Sara's diet too, if that

is what works best for them and is what they choose to do. It is

very nice that there are so many different alternatives which will

help just that many more people. People have better options to fit

their individual situations. I think this is very good.

Congratulations on your book!

.

[Guest guest]

From: " jornmatt " <kjorn@t...>

Date: Wed Aug 28, 2002 9:58 am

Subject: Re: enzymes and autism

>>> I posted a few weeks ago and asked about statistics for the

Houstonni products and got as the reply to contact the manufacturer.

When you subscribed to this group you would have received a 7 month

report with " statistics " on these particular enzymes as found by

this group. It was a very good undertaking that produced a great

deal of information that many people and companies have benefited

from.

Reply: I did not receive a 7 month report with ?statistics?.

When you asked, this was brought up again with additional

information from the company. I will send it to you again, just to

be sure we are talking about the same thing. It is quite well

documented, and you can take from it what you like. This was

objective when done, although some people were not happy with the

conclusions, but others were quite happy. No matter what type of

study one does, someone will not like it and others will.

Considering that many organizations have been involved with autism

and knew about enzymes for over a decade, it is quite awesome that

parents/individuals did this on their own, when other organizations

had ample opportunity as well as resources to do this many years

earlier and elected not to.

Reply: I did not see additional information posted from the company

nor did I receive a private post containing said information.

>>>I also worked with several families using the products and I

found some consistencies which support the general use of enzymes in

autism but also some reports of side-effects which are not

consistent with past experience with enzyme usage and appear to be

unique to this product and forum.

Can you name the experiences you have seen that are not consistent

with what is reported here? There is always room to learn and grow.

Drawing from more experiences can add to improved guidelines. The

next sentence is really long so I will break it into pieces for my

questions:

>>I also found that the way in which information is dispersed here

is often biased

In what way is it biased and dispersed in that way which is separate

that just any person having an individual opinion?

Reply: Information from the most ardent supporters often imply the

results obtained were and are as a direct result of enzyme

supplementation. In reality from personal experience and also from

taking the collective posts from these same individuals it is a

difficult process which involves many steps and can include use of

testing, medications, supplements, additional therapies and diet

restrictions. Indeed diet regulation remains in place for the ASD

children of many, most or all of the strong enzyme support persons on

the forum. When the variables are managed and the

diet is on target then the results can be phenomenal and include

recovery or symptom free for some people with an ASD. Thus the

information is biased when the details include only the use of enzymes

and exclude the additional pieces of information which include other

therapies, medications and diet regulation which were also used and

the combined therapies resulted in the desired outcome.

>>and based on results and reactions for individuals with a unique

set of circumstances

Each person will have a unique set of circumstances so I do not

understand how this is meaningful. I, at least, type to look at each

person as unique and so not shoot off a blanket statement that I

expect to everyone and to which everyone should conform. Please

explain what you mean by this.

Reply: In my ?blanket? statement I think I was saying exactly the

same, that we are each unique. That you took it as a blanket statement

is your choice.

>>>which generally included limited or self-limited diets prior to

the addition of the enzymes

diet is per the choice of the individual so what a person " brings to

the table " is what they choose to bring. This group does not dictate

what food choices a person should abide by. So yes, each person

chooses the diet or non-diet they follow. Is this what you meant?

Reply: This is what we work with in autism. Each child unique and yet

needing nutritional support. Finding out when and how and why enzymes

and other supplements work for some and not for others and how and why

some foods work differently in the autist and how this knowledge can

be applied for those who choose to do so is a step in the direction

toward making progress and helping people to achieve results.

>>>and a slow but as yet unproven return for some foods, although

this is the outcome for which the product is being acclaimed.

I disagree with this. I see most people being able to return most

foods back to the diet if that is what they choose to do. I

certainly was able to immediately add back the foods I wanted to,

added back in a ton more foods right away as did many more

people. But not everyone can automatically add back in every food.

Some need yeast treatment, or chelation, or meds, or behavioral

therapy, or other interventions. However, this is not a failing on

the part of any person. It is an individual situation and no one is

harassed for not adding in back certain foods, nor are they

told " you are just not doing it right, " nor are they told " you must

do it this way or you are a neglectful parent " as other avenues do.

I see these as positives.

Reply: I do not see that MOST get this result. Indeed I see that from

those posting the results are quite variable.

I am glad people see positive results with Sara's diet too, if that

is what works best for them and is what they choose to do. It is

very nice that there are so many different alternatives which will

help just that many more people. People have better options to fit

their individual situations. I think this is very good.

Congratulations on your book!

Reply: To look at the approaches as separate is to suggest that they

work for different reasons. I suggest alternatively that many times

the variables are similar with individuals who get significant and

positive results. Wording may be different and approaches may be

different but when these things are looked at objectively then often

the variables are similar for people with autism who get positive and

measurable results.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

In @y..., " jornmatt " <kjorn@t...> wrote:

> >>> I posted a few weeks ago and asked about statistics for the

> Houstonni products and got as the reply to contact the manufacturer.

>

> When you subscribed to this group you would have received a 7 month

> report with " statistics " on these particular enzymes as found by

> this group. It was a very good undertaking that produced a great

> deal of information that many people and companies have benefited

> from. When you asked, this was brought up again with additional

> information from the company. I will send it to you again, just to

> be sure we are talking about the same thing. It is quite well

> documented, and you can take from it what you like. This was

> objective when done, although some people were not happy with the

> conclusions, but others were quite happy. No matter what type of

> study one does, someone will not like it and others will.

> Considering that many organizations have been involved with autism

> and knew about enzymes for over a decade, it is quite awesome that

> parents/individuals did this on their own, when other organizations

> had ample opportunity as well as resources to do this many years

> earlier and elected not to.

>

> >>>I also worked with several families using the products and I

> found some consistencies which support the general use of enzymes in

> autism but also some reports of side-effects which are not

> consistent with past experience with enzyme usage and appear to be

> unique to this product and forum.

>

> Can you name the experiences you have seen that are not consistent

> with what is reported here? There is always room to learn and grow.

> Drawing from more experiences can add to improved guidelines. The

> next sentence is really long so I will break it into pieces for my

> questions:

>

> >>I also found that the way in which information is dispersed here

> is often biased

>

> In what way is it biased and dispersed in that way which is separate

> that just any person having an individual opinion?

>

> >>and based on results and reactions for individuals with a unique

> set of circumstances

>

> Each person will have a unique set of circumstances so I do not

> understand how this is meaningful. I, at least, type to look at each

> person as unique and so not shoot off a blanket statement that I

> expect to everyone and to which everyone should conform. Please

> explain what you mean by this.

>

> >>>which generally included limited or self-limited diets prior to

> the addition of the enzymes

>

> diet is per the choice of the individual so what a person " brings to

> the table " is what they choose to bring. This group does not dictate

> what food choices a person should abide by. So yes, each person

> chooses the diet or non-diet they follow. Is this what you meant?

>

> >>>and a slow but as yet unproven return for some foods, although

> this is the outcome for which the product is being acclaimed.

>

> I disagree with this. I see most people being able to return most

> foods back to the diet if that is what they choose to do. I

> certainly was able to immediately add back the foods I wanted to,

> added back in a ton more foods right away as did many more

> people. But not everyone can automatically add back in every food.

> Some need yeast treatment, or chelation, or meds, or behavioral

> therapy, or other interventions. However, this is not a failing on

> the part of any person. It is an individual situation and no one is

> harassed for not adding in back certain foods, nor are they

> told " you are just not doing it right, " nor are they told " you must

> do it this way or you are a neglectful parent " as other avenues do.

> I see these as positives.

>

> I am glad people see positive results with Sara's diet too, if that

> is what works best for them and is what they choose to do. It is

> very nice that there are so many different alternatives which will

> help just that many more people. People have better options to fit

> their individual situations. I think this is very good.

> Congratulations on your book!

>

> .