Guest guest Posted November 13, 2003 Report Share Posted November 13, 2003 How about the Traditional Medicine Register? The general public may find that confusing at first, but it would be good to be upfront about the fact that we carry the traditions, not conventional medicine, and eventually the message would get through. In fact, it would be a way of promoting our history. Obviously, the homeopaths etc would not be able to join without a name change, but it should be ok for acupuncturists who also have a fair bit of history. Robyn jgallagher wrote: >I listened to Pittilo, last month, speak about the HMRWG >recommendations. His emphasis on the term CAM was that the team had to call >it something but they realise that this is poor. Suggestions for an >alternative name would be very much welcomed. >So what's your alternative? >Anyway, this is only a paper of recommendation and can be completely ignored >by parliament/government. >Anyone heard the latest progressions? > >JGallagher >Beds > > > >List Owner > > > >Graham White, MNIMH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Dear . Members will receive a full update on any employment issues in December mailing. Consultation - I agree with you in that I do not feel this has been ideal and is somthing I have been flagging up in a number of arenas- one intiative to address (internally) this is the members forum - if you have other suggestions and Council can have more help actioning these things I am all ears. I will reflect on this process in my report. Chain of office - just opened the box to check my perception of reality...it is a beautiful thing - beware of Chinese whispers The name - need to ponder on that one. Costings - current costings will be posted to website and be dist in Dec mailing. Do not have current update on postiion of acupuncturists (which is very public) but will investigate any developments. Sorry this is short - I am being a herbalist today! then away over the weekend Trudy I like this name Robyn, It sits well. However, I still feel frustrated at the poor consultation process NIMH has undertaken with members. I have fed that to them. It seems to me if the acupuncturists don't want to be in with us, we are in for a very expensive ride and i can't see how we can possibly support SSR alone. We seem to be starting from an impoverished point as I hear it cost NIMH £25,000 to " pay off " Audrey, and we appear to have " misplaced " a gold chain (like a mayoral chain) of office which is valued at £30,000 donated to NIMH by a previous member....I wait to stand to be corrected. Best wishes, Message date : Nov 13 2003, 07:59 PM From : Robyn To : ukherbal-list Copy to : Subject : Re: legislation How about the Traditional Medicine Register? The general public may find that confusing at first, but it would be good to be upfront about the fact that we carry the traditions, not conventional medicine, and eventually the message would get through. In fact, it would be a way of promoting our history. Obviously, the homeopaths etc would not be able to join without a name change, but it should be ok for acupuncturists who also have a fair bit of history. Robyn jgallagher wrote: >I listened to Pittilo, last month, speak about the HMRWG >recommendations. His emphasis on the term CAM was that the team had to call >it something but they realise that this is poor. Suggestions for an >alternative name would be very much welcomed. >So what's your alternative? >Anyway, this is only a paper of recommendation and can be completely ignored >by parliament/government. >Anyone heard the latest progressions? > >JGallagher >Beds > > > >List Owner > > > >Graham White, MNIMH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 That is rather rich coming from you, Gill, since it is down to you that the terms of the settlement are so widely known! And not just within the NIMH. Re the chain of office - is it insured? Is it wise to have such an expensive gold chain just knocking about someone's house? Shouldn't it be in a safe deposit box? Re: Re: legislation > > > I like this name Robyn, It sits well. However, I still feel frustrated at > the poor consultation process NIMH has undertaken with members. I have fed > that to them. It seems to me if the acupuncturists don't want to be in with > us, we are in for a very expensive ride and i can't see how we can possibly > support SSR alone. We seem to be starting from an impoverished point as I > hear it cost NIMH £25,000 to " pay off " Audrey, and we appear to have > " misplaced " a gold chain (like a mayoral chain) of office which is valued at > £30,000 donated to NIMH by a previous member....I wait to stand to be > corrected. > Best wishes, > > > > > Message date : Nov 13 2003, 07:59 PM > From : Robyn > To : ukherbal-list > Copy to : > Subject : Re: legislation > How about the Traditional Medicine Register? The general public may find > that confusing at first, but it would be good to be upfront about the > fact that we carry the traditions, not conventional medicine, and > eventually the message would get through. In fact, it would be a way of > promoting our history. Obviously, the homeopaths etc would not be able > to join without a name change, but it should be ok for acupuncturists > who also have a fair bit of history. > > Robyn > > jgallagher wrote: > > >I listened to Pittilo, last month, speak about the HMRWG > >recommendations. His emphasis on the term CAM was that the team had to call > >it something but they realise that this is poor. Suggestions for an > >alternative name would be very much welcomed. > >So what's your alternative? > >Anyway, this is only a paper of recommendation and can be completely > ignored > >by parliament/government. > >Anyone heard the latest progressions? > > > >JGallagher > >Beds > > > > > > > >List Owner > > > > > > > >Graham White, MNIMH > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Trudy's reply is keep everything quiet. We will let you know in december when everyone has forgotten about it again. Not any more. How many of you trust this woman?????????? Menzies - Trull Re: Re: legislation > > Dear . > > Members will receive a full update on any employment issues in December > mailing. > Consultation - I agree with you in that I do not feel this has been ideal > and is somthing I have been flagging up in a number of arenas- one intiative > to address (internally) this is the members forum - if you have other > suggestions and Council can have more help actioning these things I am all > ears. I will reflect on this process in my report. > Chain of office - just opened the box to check my perception of reality...it > is a beautiful thing - beware of Chinese whispers > > The name - need to ponder on that one. > Costings - current costings will be posted to website and be dist in Dec > mailing. > Do not have current update on postiion of acupuncturists (which is very > public) but will investigate any developments. > Sorry this is short - I am being a herbalist today! then away over the > weekend > > Trudy > > > I like this name Robyn, It sits well. However, I still feel frustrated at > the poor consultation process NIMH has undertaken with members. I have fed > that to them. It seems to me if the acupuncturists don't want to be in with > us, we are in for a very expensive ride and i can't see how we can possibly > support SSR alone. We seem to be starting from an impoverished point as I > hear it cost NIMH £25,000 to " pay off " Audrey, and we appear to have > " misplaced " a gold chain (like a mayoral chain) of office which is valued at > £30,000 donated to NIMH by a previous member....I wait to stand to be > corrected. > Best wishes, > > > > > Message date : Nov 13 2003, 07:59 PM > From : Robyn > To : ukherbal-list > Copy to : > Subject : Re: legislation > How about the Traditional Medicine Register? The general public may find > that confusing at first, but it would be good to be upfront about the > fact that we carry the traditions, not conventional medicine, and > eventually the message would get through. In fact, it would be a way of > promoting our history. Obviously, the homeopaths etc would not be able > to join without a name change, but it should be ok for acupuncturists > who also have a fair bit of history. > > Robyn > > jgallagher wrote: > > >I listened to Pittilo, last month, speak about the HMRWG > >recommendations. His emphasis on the term CAM was that the team had to call > >it something but they realise that this is poor. Suggestions for an > >alternative name would be very much welcomed. > >So what's your alternative? > >Anyway, this is only a paper of recommendation and can be completely > ignored > >by parliament/government. > >Anyone heard the latest progressions? > > > >JGallagher > >Beds > > > > > > > >List Owner > > > > > > > >Graham White, MNIMH > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Hello all, Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't there a member's forum for discussing NIMH business on the NIMH website? Go to member's area (with a password and user name) then click on " bulletin board " . Just checked there and it looks like the last person to post was on Feb. 21, 2003. If this indeed is the forum created by council wherein issues solely connected with the NIMH were to be discussed, it is sadly under-used. Cheers, Kerry Tim Lane wrote: >Whilst accepting that the uk herbal list is not the place for discussing NIMH business, the NIMH have failed to provide their members with a suitable forum in which to do so. Why is this?? Is it because Council are unwilling, or is it due to workload- there seems to be enough time to pursue SSR, but, unfortunately, not enough time to set up a web site for NIMH members. I remember that a motion was passed at a recent AGM which obliged the NIMH Council to act individually and collectively for the interests of its own members. I would suggest that not having an open forum is in direct contradiction to this. I hope that Caton is successful in getting Council to immediately set up the forum she has mentioned to allow various issues to be discussed and resolved instead of festering away, as they obviously are. > >Best regards, >Tim Lane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 14, 2003 Report Share Posted November 14, 2003 Hi Tim The members forum is a nimh initiative, not mine. At present we are endeavouring to get a list like this set up for nimh only members, asap-will let you know more on Monday or before hopefully. To all nimh members Meanwhile, members can phone, email or post questions, opinions etc to either Lel or me and we will collate, record and get answers to feedback to members. I am making note of issues raised here already but should say that the members forum has not been set up to throw accusations at each other or council, it was intended as a positive step towards greater communication and understanding of members opinions. We now have the opportunity to discuss SSR etc, it may be late but lets not waste it with what should or could have been, lets get it said before its to late. If anyone has any complaints or accusations to make about a member or council other channels exist for the expression of these. We can surely disagree, discuss, question and express our opinions without being abusive to one another, we are after all Herbalists!!-and we don't want to make each spiritually unwell do we? chris LEGISLATION Whilst accepting that the uk herbal list is not the place for discussing NIMH business, the NIMH have failed to provide their members with a suitable forum in which to do so. Why is this?? Is it because Council are unwilling, or is it due to workload- there seems to be enough time to pursue SSR, but, unfortunately, not enough time to set up a web site for NIMH members. I remember that a motion was passed at a recent AGM which obliged the NIMH Council to act individually and collectively for the interests of its own members. I would suggest that not having an open forum is in direct contradiction to this. I hope that Caton is successful in getting Council to immediately set up the forum she has mentioned to allow various issues to be discussed and resolved instead of festering away, as they obviously are. Best regards, Tim Lane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 The problem has largely been technical . Since Nigel Wynne died, there has been a lot of difficulty getting the website updated; this includes the bulletin board, which was intended to provide a space for an online forum. I , along with others, have been putting a lot of time & effort into correcting this situation. I have only been on Council a few months, but I am already disheartened by the amount of carping and conspiracy theories about Council. Council consists of hard-working herbalists, NIMH members themselves, who give up silly amounts of their free time to do often complicated work, for absolutely no personal reward. It is perfectly acceptable for members to point out shortcomings, make criticisms and suggest actions. What is not acceptable are dark & disparaging rumours that paint Council as some Machievellian clique out for their own ends. What is REALLY needed is for more members with specific skills & expertise to come forward & help. We already have people like Caton, Graham White, Lesley Hoyle et al who are working to set up a members' forum. We need others to come and offer a few hours a week to help with specific tasks. To talk about people " getting Council to set up the forum " displays an attitude of " someone else should be doing it " . Positive participation is what is required.Remember, NIMH is the membership, no more & no less. Ned Reiter Acting Vce-President At 18:26 14/11/2003, you wrote: >Whilst accepting that the uk herbal list is not the place for discussing >NIMH business, the NIMH have failed to provide their members with a >suitable forum in which to do so. Why is this?? Is it because Council are >unwilling, or is it due to workload- there seems to be enough time to >pursue SSR, but, unfortunately, not enough time to set up a web site for >NIMH members. I remember that a motion was passed at a recent AGM which >obliged the NIMH Council to act individually and collectively for the >interests of its own members. I would suggest that not having an open >forum is in direct contradiction to this. I hope that Caton is >successful in getting Council to immediately set up the forum she has >mentioned to allow various issues to be discussed and resolved instead of >festering away, as they obviously are. > >Best regards, >Tim Lane > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 16, 2003 Report Share Posted November 16, 2003 > The problem has largely been technical . Since Nigel Wynne died, there has > been a lot of difficulty getting the website updated; this includes the > bulletin board, which was intended to provide a space for an online forum. > I , along with others, have been putting a lot of time & effort into > correcting this situation. SNIP > What is REALLY needed is for more members with specific skills & expertise > to come forward & help. We already have people like Caton, Graham > White, Lesley Hoyle et al who are working to set up a members' forum. We > need others to come and offer a few hours a week to help with specific > tasks. To talk about people " getting Council to set up the forum " displays > an attitude of " someone else should be doing it " . Positive participation is > what is required.Remember, NIMH is the membership, no more & no less. > > Points taken re participation, but with respect Ned, it takes about five minutes to set up a private email list hosted on a third party server. Ad-free listservs are available at minimal cost, and ad-based services like this Yahoo one are " free " . It could have been done months ago without a lot of grief. How many herbalists does it take to set up a list? IMHO it would be a good idea do set such a list since there are apparently issues that could be aired more freely if this was not a public forum. I already have suggested this would be of particular help for us overseas folks who get " printed matter " mailings from the Exeter NIMH office by packet steamship weeks after they have passed their sell-by date usually. Positive participation such as you advocate would only be facilitated by a members only vehicle of regular communication /exchange. jonathan treasure, MNIMH AHG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Dear Tim, I of course accept that you did not engage in any direct criticism, and apologise if I seemed to overeact. The remrks about " conspiracy theories " were not aimed directly at you, but rather were a general response to a worrying trend in communications of late. I totally agree that the Forum should be run independently of Council. My concern is to challenge a culture of " us " (membership) and " them " (Council). I regard myself as a Herbalist first, a member of NIMH second, and a Council member only as a way of giving something back to the profession that I have practiced and which has given me so much over more than 20 years. I am sure that the same goes for all those who give their time to Council. Herbal Medicine is at a critical stage in its history, and we must get the decisions over SSR, training, legislation etc. right. I am sure you agree that the basis for achieving this must be a spirit of co-operation and mutual respect: history is litered with examples of internal squabbling leading to oppression and disaster. Ned ********************************************************************* Ned Reiter BA MNIMH Registered Medical Herbalist e-mail reiter@... > Dear Ned, > > Further to your message of 16.11.03; > > I am not aware that I have stated anywhere in my message of the 14th. that the NIMH council are a 'Machiavellian clique'. Throughout my discussion of SSR and associated issues I have made it a priority to stick to available facts and have gone out of my way not to be involved in peddling unsubstantiated rumour, I have never originated any 'conspiracy theories' with regard to Council, and it is not my intention to deviate from this approach now. I would however like to point out that I should have phrased my e-mail more accurately than I did- my intention in my message was to indicate that I hoped Council would allow to set the forum up, rather than meaning that Council themselves should do it. I hope that this clarifies my intended meaning to your satisfaction. I would also like to point out to you that I called Caton last week in order to specifically discuss possible options regarding the setting up of the members forum- I trust this is the sort of input you mean when you talk of 'positive participation'. See also my message 'clarification' of 15.11.03 which was intended as a positive comment on this 'forum' situation- I suggest that it may be helpful if as swift a reply was made to a message genuinely intended to both clarify an uncertain situation and offer some hopefully constructive comments, as it was to a message which you percieved as unfairly critical. > > Best regards, > Tim Lane. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2003 Report Share Posted November 18, 2003 Dear , I do not know what happened to make you so embittered. If harm or hurt has been done in the past, I can only say that I would never allow myself to be part of such behaviour in the present or future. You do not specify which part of my previous post you consider to be " rubbish " , but I assume it is not my attitude that NIMH should be an open and democratic organisation. For better or worse, I have elected to stick my neck out and offer my time to try to help NIMH improve its performance. I sincerely hope that others will do likewise and that we can learn from the mistakes and hurts of the past, and promote trust, respect and tolerance within the organisation. Then we can build a secure and meaningful role for this oldest of herbal institutions for the future. I hope that at some time you may feel able to forgive whatever distress you were caused and be part of that future yourself. Ned At 16:30 18/11/2003, you wrote: >Dear Ned, What rubbish. Perhaps you should look at what has happened over >many years to people who have done exactly what you've asked. Offered time >expertise etc. only to be shot down in flames, labelled as neurotic, >sidelined etc etc. when they try to point out there are ways of doing things >which are not appropriate to people calling themselves healers. The key here >is that you have not been on Council long. I spent 13 years thinking like >yourself, even standing up and giving votes of thanks to the same people I >later realised where the very ones being carped against. I've voted with my >feet as members didn't wish to hear the truth when it was blazoned from the >roof tops. Many of the current issues have been long standing and part of >the reluctance to come forward stems from people being aware of just how >individuals have been treated. After all one doesn't willingly put ones head >on the block, well not after the first time anyway. >----- Original Message ----- Ned Reiter BA MNIMH Registered Medical Herbalist 13 Bere Lane Glastonbury, Somerset, BA6 8BD U.K. Tel.: 01458 833663 e-mail reiter@... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 19, 2003 Report Share Posted November 19, 2003 Dear Ned, The comment was not one of bitterness, more realism, tempered by a very great and enduring sadness, which I know many others share at the destructive effects offering time and energy to the Institute has had on more peoples lives than I like to think about. Healing can only be possible in those sort of situations, in my experience when the people concerned apologise for the damage and hurt they have caused and this has to be a two way process. Of course I've moved on (at least I think I have!) but your e-mail struck me as showing a reflection of my own attitude to the Institute when I first began. I made the mistake of thinking along the lines of Alison's e-mail when I set out as a newly qualified practitioner. The reality is rather different. This is a professional organisation we are talking about not a support group or a club and as a professional organisation it has responsibilities, rules and regulations which Council should be working to. Part of the problem over the years may well have been that in attempting to avoid the us and them mentality and trying to be one big happy family the role of the professional body, which after all is supposed to be about self-regulation has become fuzzy and blurred. Being on Council should not be comfortable, just using one example, part of the role of Council is dealing with complaints against its members and the degree of professionalism required is high and requires a level of detachment which is difficult. As one of my students commented after a post- Conference discussion some years ago, as a professional body behaviour at the dinner dance was disgraceful, such letting down of ones hair with friends is fine but to couple it with an official AGM and the like is a potentially very damaging piece of PR. The general consensus was that the professional body should behave as such and not blur the issues in this way. Problems also occur when personal preferences, agendas and vested interests cause conflicts in the various roles that Council members are called to fulfil. We are not always good at recognising such conflicts and this can lead to untold problems, not least when others try to tell us that they exist! I don't dispute the current Council work very hard, I really don't know, I'm no longer a member but I find it very disturbing that Council considers apathy a major cause of lack of contribution when, if one speaks to people who have been involved and no longer wish to be, that the cause is more a positive decision of not wanting to become involved in something that no longer reflects many people's feelings about how a professional body should be run. Yes it is probably much to do with the past but as human beings we do tend to learn by past experience and one of the things I have learnt from my experience of Council and subsequently serving on the Foundation, as well as being employed by the Institute at on of its clinics is that I personally do not wish to continue running my head against a brick wall and would prefer to focus my energy, which is now somewhat less than it was, on treating my patients. For me my life is too short. It is very clear from the SSR documents that Professional Bodies will be shed at a dramatic rate once registration begins and it will be interesting to see which bodies survive the process with sufficient membership to still be viable. An interesting question which all such bodies might like to send out to their members is along the lines of : 1. If registration costs ---- and membership of your professional body costs ---- (both of which you will be obliged to pay under the terms of registration) and there is an EHPA levy of ----? will you continue to work as a herbalists following registration? There might even be several versions of this giving alternative levels of proposed costing. This would then give each body a realistic idea of just what finances it is likely to have post registration which along with a realistic review of what functions it will have left. My reading of it is that there will only be CPD left, which will then focus in a wonderful way just exactly what the remaining bodies will be about, if anything. Perhaps the energy could then go into developing these areas instead of wasting time and money on progressing things which in the long run will no longer be part of the function of those bodies but will be the responsibility of the individuals running the relevant regulatory bodies who will be paid handsomely for the job. Much more sensible. I once listened to a talk given by Dr. Burkitt, of Burkitt's lymphoma fame, in which he commented that it takes many years of patient working in the background to earn the right to respect and I do feel that trust and respect are earnt rather than promoted. Tolerance is something we have to be very careful of because sometimes the things we are asked to tolerate are thing that are neither good for us nor healing so tolerance should be tempered with a degree of discernment about whatever we are being asked to tolerate. They are also perhaps qualities which one extends to individuals rather than to organisations. One can feel all of those things towards a person but not necessarily towards an organisation or group of which they are part perhaps? I do also feel that NIMH members should really be using their own forum for discussing the internal governance of the Institute. Whilst I have put in comments they are really, as Ned points out only of historic interest and current situations should be discussed elsewhere, it does come across very badly to those of us outside that group. Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:41 PM Subject: Re: LEGISLATION > Dear , > > I do not know what happened to make you so embittered. If harm or hurt has > been done in the past, I can only say that I would never allow myself to be > part of such behaviour in the present or future. You do not specify which > part of my previous post you consider to be " rubbish " , but I assume it is > not my attitude that NIMH should be an open and democratic organisation. > For better or worse, I have elected to stick my neck out and offer my time > to try to help NIMH improve its performance. I sincerely hope that others > will do likewise and that we can learn from the mistakes and hurts of the > past, and promote trust, respect and tolerance within the organisation. > Then we can build a secure and meaningful role for this oldest of herbal > institutions for the future. I hope that at some time you may feel able to > forgive whatever distress you were caused and be part of that future yourself. > > Ned > > At 16:30 18/11/2003, you wrote: > >Dear Ned, What rubbish. Perhaps you should look at what has happened over > >many years to people who have done exactly what you've asked. Offered time > >expertise etc. only to be shot down in flames, labelled as neurotic, > >sidelined etc etc. when they try to point out there are ways of doing things > >which are not appropriate to people calling themselves healers. The key here > >is that you have not been on Council long. I spent 13 years thinking like > >yourself, even standing up and giving votes of thanks to the same people I > >later realised where the very ones being carped against. I've voted with my > >feet as members didn't wish to hear the truth when it was blazoned from the > >roof tops. Many of the current issues have been long standing and part of > >the reluctance to come forward stems from people being aware of just how > >individuals have been treated. After all one doesn't willingly put ones head > >on the block, well not after the first time anyway. > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > Ned Reiter BA MNIMH > Registered Medical Herbalist > 13 Bere Lane > Glastonbury, Somerset, BA6 8BD > U.K. > Tel.: 01458 833663 > e-mail reiter@... > > > > > List Owner > > > > Graham White, MNIMH > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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