Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Curiosity has me - what do you use Alkanet for a cotton/textile/wool dye? I have yet to see it mentioned as a dye for anything yet. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 please say it ain't so........ Patti in PA. even in soap coloring???? Oh come on I just bought 2 lbs of the stuff..... Alkanet Although I am in England, and it is still a permitted ingredient here, I understand that alkanet use has been banned recently by the FDA in cosmetics. (Thanks Jules!) In theory I should include this information somewhere in the piles of paperwork I have to keep. Can someone direct me to the relevant bit of legislation? Is there anywhere that I can find the basis for this decision? Thanks Rose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 In a message dated 2/12/01 4:41:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, Cosmeticinfo writes: << If you are making soap, and using alkanet to color your soap with, and are not making cosmetic or drug claims on your label, then you are okay. Soap is not regulated by the FDA unless you make claims. Soap is regulated by the CPSC. If you want to make claims or cosmetics, then you need to be using colorants approved for use by the FDA. >> Yes, Ellen, but if the alkanet is deemed not safe for cosmetics, I personally would hesitate to put it in my soap product without additional information on it. To me it is not an issue of who regulates it, it is an overall safety issue. I guess my question would be is, why the FDA chose not to approve it and then go from there as a deciding factor. Dee ·´¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸:.¸:.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸:.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·: me >^;;^< >^;;^< >^;;^< >^;;^< >^;;^< ow ·´¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸:.¸:.¸.·´¯`·.><((((º> .¸:.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>·´¯`·: ·´¯`·.. ><((((º>``·.¸ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 >Although I am in England, and it is still a permitted ingredient here, I >understand that alkanet use has been banned recently by the FDA in cosmetics. > (Thanks Jules!) In theory I should include this information somewhere in the >piles of paperwork I have to keep. I'm not sure what you exactly mean when you say " recently banned " , but I don't recall Alkanet ever being approved as a colorant for cosmetics. I did do a search of the US Federal Register from 1995 through 2001 for " alkanet " and " Alkanna tinctoria " and couldn't find any reference. I also searched the Code of Federal Regulations and could find any reference. According to the 8th Edition of the CTFA's International Cosmetic Ingredient Dictionary, Alkanet (INCI: Alkanna Tinctoria Root Extract) is also called Alkanna Tinctoria in the EU. I understand that the UK is not part of the EU, but as far as I can tell from searching the EU's Pharmaceutical and Cosmetic website http://pharmacos.eudra.org/ Alkanna Tinctoria is not an approved colourant in the EU. If you have a literature reference that says that Alkanet is an approved colourant for cosmetics, I'd like to know for my personal files. >Can someone direct me to the relevant bit of legislation? Is there anywhere >that I can find the basis for this decision? The approved colors for use in cosmetics on the US can be found at: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opa-col2.html Maurice --------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.convergentcosmetics.comÿ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Apparently Aklanet is not innocuous. I did a MEDLINE search http://igm.nlm.nih.gov/ for Alkanet or Alkanna tinctoria and found the following citation: ------------ TITLE: Studies on the relationship of structure to antimicrobial properties of naphthaquinones and other constituents of Alkanna tinctoria. AUTHORS: Papageorgiou VP, Winkler A, Sagredos AN, Digenis GA SOURCE: Planta Med. 1979 Jan;35(1):56-60. No abstract available. ------------ TITLE: Wound healing properties of naphthaquinone pigments from Alkanna tinctoria. AUTHORS: Papageorgiou VP SOURCE: Experientia. 1978 Nov 15;34(11):1499-501. Maurice --------------------------- MauriceÿO.ÿHeveyÿ ConvergentÿCosmetics,ÿInc. http://www.convergentcosmetics.comÿ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 > If you are making soap, and using alkanet to color your soap with, and are > not making cosmetic or drug claims on your label, then you are okay. Soap > is not regulated by the FDA unless you make claims. Soap is regulated by > the CPSC. If you want to make claims or cosmetics, then you need to be > using colorants approved for use by the FDA. Yes and No. Labeling and cosmetic claims are not one and the same. When you label-even if you don't make cosmetic claims-you still need to follow the only law that is in effect for labeling, and that means using INCI nomenclature. When it comes to listing your Alkanet, if you list it as a colorant, it is not approved. If you don't list it as a colorant, and list it just as another herb, you are ok. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity. www.houseofscents.com /group/Cosmeticinfo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Thank you for your reply Maurice. The UK *is* part of the EU, and all regulations apply... The point you raise about alkanet not being listed as a colourant here is correct; it is in neither the permitted or prohibited listings. However it is listed as a cosmetic ingredient in the EU INCI listings, (Einecs No 286-469-4, CAS No 85251-58-7) and can therefore be used as an ingredient. If it is listed in the CTFA directory, then presumably the case is similar in the US. As a soapmaker, my recipes have to be certified by a cosmetic chemist or toxicologist, and one or both of us should provide as much information as possible about such an ingredient, although at the end of the day the decision regarding it's safety rests with him. I have certified recipes containing infusions of Alkanna tinctoria, but it is my responsibility to keep the information up to date... To answer your question Maurice, I don't have any literature that states that it is an approved colourant; only some references to papers recommending it not be used during pregnancy etc. My chemist assessed it's activity in the product as 0%, (presumably because it is a strained infusion?) and noted that it is considered by the AHPA to be suitable only for use in a rinse off product. He also notes that it is being used as a colouring agent. I would be very curious to know what your opinion on it's use would be. There are any number of permitted ingredients that whilst not listed as permitted colourants, have the effect of colouring the finished product. It is interesting to note that here in the UK, many commercial soap manufacturers are now producing soaps designed to look as if they are handmade, complete with rough edges and various dried botanicals sprinkled through them. I am aware that these probably don't contain pyrrolilizidine alkaloids, but I suspect that at some point the regulatory bodies might have to catch up with this. Rose In a message dated 12/2/01 11:55:19 pm, maurice@... writes: <<I'm not sure what you exactly mean when you say " recently banned " , but I don't recall Alkanet ever being approved as a colorant for cosmetics. I did do a search of the US Federal Register from 1995 through 2001 for " alkanet " and " Alkanna tinctoria " and couldn't find any reference. I also searched the Code of Federal Regulations and could find any reference. According to the 8th Edition of the CTFA's International Cosmetic Ingredient Dictionary, Alkanet (INCI: Alkanna Tinctoria Root Extract) is also called Alkanna Tinctoria in the EU. I understand that the UK is not part of the EU, but as far as I can tell from seaching the EU's Pharmaceutical and Cosmetic website http://pharmacos.eudra.org/ Alkanna Tinctoria is not an approved colourant in the EU. If you have a literature reference that says that Alkanet is an approved colourant for cosmetics, I'd like to know for my persoanl files. >Can someone direct me to the relevant bit of legislation? Is there anywhere >that I can find the basis for this decision? The approved colors for use in cosmetics on the US can be found at: http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/opa-col2.html Maurice >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 As a soapmaker, the number 1 reason for using Alkanet is for coloring. I am more than sure that coloring soap was the reason behind the original question about alkanet. Alkanet is not " deemed unsafe " .. it has not been " banned " it simply " isn't approved " . It equates to about the same thing as adding dillweed for a green color or paprika for a peach color (among several other herbal items) to soap. Ellen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 >The UK *is* part of the EU, and all regulations apply... I stand corrected. I was under the impreesion that Ireland and the UK decided to hold out for awhile. >The point you raise about alkanet not being listed as a colourant here is >correct; it is in neither the permitted or prohibited listings. However it >is listed as a cosmetic ingredient in the EU INCI listings, (Einecs No >286-469-4, CAS No 85251-58-7) and can therefore be used as an ingredient. >If it is listed in the CTFA directory, then presumably the case is similar in >the US. True. It can be used as a botanical additive. Maurice --------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.convergentcosmetics.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 00:18:57 -0600, Ellen's Essentials wrote: >Alkanet is not " deemed unsafe " .. it has not been > " banned " it simply " isn't approved " . That's my interpretation also. Maurice --------------------------- Maurice O. Hevey Convergent Cosmetics, Inc. http://www.convergentcosmetics.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 > I stand corrected. I was under the impreesion that Ireland and the UK decided to hold out for awhile. Maurice, Ireland (The Republic) is part of the EU. As a matter of fact it has the fastest growing economy in the EU as a result of them cutting taxes to attract business. Looks like they were paying attention to Regan:-) Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2001 Report Share Posted February 13, 2001 Hi Sara I read this through a few times before I realized that I completely agree... It is a problem though with ingredients that ARE listed as approved, but that have very little research done or published about them. Or that, as in the case of eos, have new research coming out all the time. There are no MSDSs for alkanet, or for cinnamon or dill or parsley for that matter. I use some of them to enhance the appearance of my product; much the same as any cosmetic manufacturer would try to enhance the appearence of their product. In my own case I would prefer to use these sorts of items because it happens to fit in with my particular market. It is however, absolutely up to me to make sure that in doing so, I make a product that is provably just as safe as one that uses approved colourants. In fact (and this is a particular bugbear of mine!) this whole area of using botanicals in this fashion to improve appearance and perceptible value is virtually confined to handmade soap, the one area of cosmetics that doesn't have any input into the deliberations of legislative bodies, or the ability to fund research. Did you know there are no EU INCI listings for saponified cocoa butter? Or sunflower, corn, canola, shea, grapeseed, neem, sesame, jojoba... The list goes on. They can be used in soap perfectly legally, since the oil listings include the physically modified extractives and fatty acids, but it means that soaps have to be labelled with just the oil names. It is perfectly possible to sell a bar of soap that according to the label has no soap in it at all! I can only assume that since no major commercial soap manufacturer uses these oils, they were 'forgotten' when the lists of sodium fatty acids were drawn up. So with regard to approved ingredients such as alkanet, parsley etc, isn't it possible that they are not on the list of approved colourants because no-one informed the committees that drew them up that there are cosmetics makers who use them for this purpose? Rose <<, I can't thank you enough for posting this. If I can't come up with a reasonable explanation for using cinnamon in my soap, other than it makes neat brown specks, why am I using it? Just like why would I use woad dye which is poisonous, artists' pigments which may contain lead, textile dyes, etc, etc. It just makes sense that the ingredients which haven't been established as safe for use in topicals or aren't listed as acceptable by the FDA are going to be the ones we are found liable for if there's a problem, even if they aren't the cause of the problem, I would add. sara >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2001 Report Share Posted February 14, 2001 > Did you know there are no EU INCI listings for saponified cocoa butter? Or > sunflower, corn, canola, shea, grapeseed, neem, sesame, jojoba... The list > goes on. Probably a good reason to list the ingredients that you put into your soap rather than the saponified oils. If you are looking for a fairly extensive list of INCI names there is a link to Sherri's web page in the " bookmarks " section of our home page. Browse the rest of her site while you are there as she stocks many ingredients. > So with regard to approved ingredients such as alkanet, parsley etc, isn't it > possible that they are not on the list of approved colourants because no-one > informed the committees that drew them up that there are cosmetics makers who > use them for this purpose? I think the only manufacturers you will find using those are the home-crafters in the soap making industry. Moreso with people that want to keep their product as close to natural as possible. By natural I mean originating from a live or dried plant. Pat. Peace, Joy, Serenity House of Scents tm. Body Oils, Fragrance Oils, Incense, Candles, Soap, Etc. achil@... www.houseofscents.com/ www.yourhealthandbody.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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