Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain meds.

July 20, 1998

DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

Published on 07/11/98, Article 1 of 6 found.

(100 words)

After recent surgery, I required pain

medication. My doctor never thought twice about

refilling my prescription two times for Percocet

due to extreme pain. A good humanitarian or a

criminal?

DOCTOR GETS 25-YEAR TERM

Published on 07/03/98, Article 2 of 6 found.

(548 words)

For Dr. Fritz Metellus, his family and his

attorney, the 25-year sentence for drug

trafficking that he received Thursday is the

beginning of a crusade.

Metellus, 47, of Davie was convicted last month

of four counts of drug trafficking for writing

unnecessary prescriptions for painkillers to two

undercover police officers posing as patients.

DOCTOR'S DRUG-TRAFFICKING CASE LESS INNOCUOUS

THAN COLUMNIST WRO

Published on 06/30/98, Article 3 of 6 found.

(475 words)

Grogan, in his recent column lamenting the

conviction of Dr. Fritz Metellus on drug

trafficking charges, says something smells. I

agree. The odor emanates from Grogan's

misrepresentation of the facts surrounding his

case.

Dr. Metellus was convicted after a jury received

evidence of: the fabrication of medical records,

the issuance of a prescription for narcotic pain

relievers for a patient not even in the doctor's

office, inclusion of an X-ray in a patient's

file that the doctor was told belon

DOCTOR'S PRESCRIPTION DRUG SENTENCE TOO SEVERE

Published on 06/28/98, Article 4 of 6 found.

(134 words)

I read with dismay your article on the

conviction of Dr. Fritz Metellus for writing

unwarranted prescriptions for pain killers (June

6). Obviously the doctor committed a serious

crime, but 25 years minimum mandatory?

I would have expected a license suspension, a

big fine and maybe a little jail time _ but 25

years?

There are cold-blooded killers walking the

streets now that didn't get that kind of time.

This is drug hysteria manifesting itself in the

Legislature _ pure and simple. It's time w

PUNISHMENT TOO HARSH FOR DOCTOR EASING PAIN

Published on 06/17/98, Article 5 of 6 found.

(646 words)

Dr. Fritz Metellus might be a nefarious drug

peddler.

Or he might just be a doctor with a soft spot

for suffering, who thinks no patient should live

in pain.

Whatever the case, he is the victim of

overzealous prosecution and hysterical anti-drug

laws.

In a society that routinely releases murderers

and robbers from prison after six or seven

years, Metellus, 47, faces the certainty of

spending, at minimum, the next quarter century

behind bars.

His crime? Killing a pedestrian while d

DOCTOR FOUND GUILTY OF TRAFFICKING

Published on 06/06/98, Article 6 of 6 found.

(474 words)

Dr. Fritz Metellus didn't deal in kilos of

cocaine or bales of marijuana.

He wrote prescriptions for powerful painkillers.

But prosecutors with the Broward State

Attorney's Office consider him a drug dealer and

charged him with 16 counts of trafficking.

On Friday, a jury convicted Metellus of four of

those counts. Now he'll pay a stiff price _ a

25-year minimum mandatory sentence.

This is from the Sun Sentinel in Florida

Sincerely,

Donovan J. M.D.

Email address donavan@...

Web Page http://www.ctaz.com/~donavan

July 20, 1998

Dear Mr. ;

I'm sorry to say that never has an email left me so much in the dark. At the

risk of sounding rude, I missed the point of your posting. I sure hope you

weren't looking for public support from a bunch of chronic pain patients,

most of whom could probably write a book about " bad or even unethical

medical " practices. If that is what you were looking for, let's look at it

from the point of view that we only have one side of the story and therefore

we cannot pass judgement on the good doctor.

To the rest of the newsgroup; sorry if I've made anyone uncomfortable. If

I've misinterpreted the intent of the email, please tell me now so that I

may apologize before I make a bigger ass of myself. Let's just say that this

is a topic which has the same noticeable effect on me as radishes and

cucumbers. It gives me gas.

Mike

> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> meds.

>

> DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

July 21, 1998

Mike,

It is apparent that you do not know Dr. . I notice that he only drops in

on this group rarely, but I have come to know him fairly well from some other

groups and I also have a video tape with he and a few other doctors speaking

about some of the new viruses being found and also about some of the government

cover-ups as far as bio-chemical substances and the problems with vaccinations

that have also never been told to the public. He is a very caring physician that

has been singled out by a very ambitious DEA agent who seems to be trying to

make a name for himself and he is on the verge of loosing his license, thus his

whole life, as he is a very devoted doctor. Some of the patients he was giving

pain meds to were cancer patients, not just CFS or FMS patients. Some also had

other chronic pain problems. One lady eventually comitted suicide after she

could no longer find anyone to treat her for her pain condition. What he is

trying to say is that doctors are being punished for just trying to do their job

to the best of their ability. And they are being punished excessively, which is

what the article was about. Doctors are afraid to treat their patients who they

really do believe are in pain, despite everything that is being published about

new findings from research. It is up to us as patients to stop this atroscity.

Go after the real drug dealers and murderers and leave the good doctors to treat

their patients as they see fit.

Dr. Kevorkian said there would be no need for his services if doctors were

allowed to treat their patients properly and he is right. It is not so much

death that they fear, but the pain that scares them into seeking an early exit

that is painless. For some reason, maybe religion based, people have this idea

that we should be kept alive at all costs, not taking into consideration the

wants of the patient or what it involves. When we have a sick pet, most people

would not dare force an animal to endure a long painful death. This is

considered " inhumane " . Now, if we as humanes see fit to not make a dog or cat,

whatever, suffer, then why the heck is it not even more so to not make a human

being suffer. And not just suffer, but lets drag it out as long as possible with

all this new wonderful technology with breathing machines and forced feedings. I

have seen old people when they are ready to die. They will just stop eating.

Sometimes animals do the same. It is an instinctive process. But we as humans

think we have the right and responsibility to force them to continue living.

Talk about playing God.

There is absolutely no dignity in making a dying person be forced to suffer in

extreme pain. These are the doctors that should be behind bars, not the ones who

are trying to do their job by being compassionate and caring.

Now, I will get off my sopbox

If I stepped on any toes, so be it. I feel very strongly about this issue.

Vickie

Mike R Courteau wrote:

>

> Dear Mr. ;

>

> I'm sorry to say that never has an email left me so much in the dark. At the

> risk of sounding rude, I missed the point of your posting. I sure hope you

> weren't looking for public support from a bunch of chronic pain patients,

> most of whom could probably write a book about " bad or even unethical

> medical " practices. If that is what you were looking for, let's look at it

> from the point of view that we only have one side of the story and therefore

> we cannot pass judgement on the good doctor.

>

> To the rest of the newsgroup; sorry if I've made anyone uncomfortable. If

> I've misinterpreted the intent of the email, please tell me now so that I

> may apologize before I make a bigger ass of myself. Let's just say that this

> is a topic which has the same noticeable effect on me as radishes and

> cucumbers. It gives me gas.

>

> Mike

>

> > Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> > meds.

> >

> > DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

July 21, 1998

At 10:28 PM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>Dear Mr. ;

actually it is Doctor, Mike..... I went to school for about 23 years to be

able to say that.

I'm sorry you are so muddled Mike and full of gas.

The point of the articles was to show that doctors who prescribe pain

medications are in danger of going to jail for 25 years. It is more than

just loosing a license or lively hood it is the threat of incarceration.

The undercover agents are allowed to lie and tell untruths to trick the

doctor.

I can understand clearly now why many pain docs don't take new patients.

It is to prevent them from getting tricked by the undercover police.

How can a doctor PROVE that a patient has pain. He has to believe what

they say. And by the way, if you think police always tell the truth on

the stand in court. Talk with a million black drug addicts who are

arrested every year.

They know the police don't tell the truth much of the time, because if they

did, most of the drug cases would be thrown out of court because of illegal

search and siezure.

>

>I'm sorry to say that never has an email left me so much in the dark. At the

>risk of sounding rude, I missed the point of your posting. I sure hope you

>weren't looking for public support from a bunch of chronic pain patients,

>most of whom could probably write a book about " bad or even unethical

>medical " practices. If that is what you were looking for, let's look at it

>from the point of view that we only have one side of the story and therefore

>we cannot pass judgement on the good doctor.

>

>To the rest of the newsgroup; sorry if I've made anyone uncomfortable. If

>I've misinterpreted the intent of the email, please tell me now so that I

>may apologize before I make a bigger ass of myself. Let's just say that this

>is a topic which has the same noticeable effect on me as radishes and

>cucumbers. It gives me gas.

>

>Mike

>

>> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

>> meds.

>>

>> DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

July 21, 1998

Hi Vickie:

I'd like to clarify a few points starting with the last topic of your reply.

Wrong or right, I too am in favour of assisted suicide. These are my

feelings and they are not really open for debate. Criticism, if you wish.

Debate no. I believe I have seen more death first hand than most and I

firmly believe that we should all have the right to opt for this final

solution. I am offended that some people even try to set so called

guidelines such as the patient having to reach a certain level of pain and

so on before suicide can become an option. Religious beliefs aside, I

believe I have a right to decide when I've had enough. Again, these are my

views.

As to Dr , I certainly do not recall putting his reputation or

virtues in doubt. If I accept your statements about him as fact, he is

indeed a good man and he would seem to be on a mission to right some serious

wrongs. There are " good " people in all walks of life. They're easy to find.

Just look at who is being ridiculed, humiliated and even persecuted for

their ideals and you've probably found one. The heavy hand of government and

regulating authorities which " we " have created and which " we " allow to

self-perpetuate every time we go to the polls always attacks the flea that

itches most. They have the resources in our tax dollars and they can wait

the enemy ( in their eyes) out for as long as it takes. We find this type of

injustice everywhere. A couple of days ago, the local news reported on the

great job our federal government had just done settling one of the first

aboriginal land claims in Canadian history. They were so proud of themselves

and reported that only a few minor points were still to be addressed. The

claim has been debated for a hundred years ! A hundred years to give back to

someone what they owned to begin with and they still have minor points to

debate ?!! The government negotiator shouldn't be applauded, he should be

shot as an example to other bureaucrats. Injustice is rampant. Dr

has made a conscious choice to stand in the forefront with his mission and I

applaud him for it. I too wish there were more like him.

Finally, to the topic of Dr 's email. Clippings of media items may

not have been the best way to state his concern. My family and I were

reported on extensively in the local media for almost a year and a half.

Never have I seen first hand so many twisted facts and outright lies.

Sensationalism drives the media. If a story doesn't have enough " punch " ,

make some up. If you can't, dump the story. The idea is even more prevalent

in television. We started with shows where actors portrayed bad guys in

movies, to shows were they re-enacted real crimes, to shows where they

actually follow the police around and get live footage of the crime being

committed ! Does anybody see anything wrong here ? Had Dr

introduced his clippings with a small statement like " I know this good man

and he is being falsely accused etc etc.. " my comments would have been

different. He did not. I therefore stand by my statement and I am prepared

to debate the issue with him and provide real examples (drawn

from_personal_experience) of medical, unethical and blatantly amoral

malpractice, without the benefit of sensationalism if he wishes. I could

start with my experience with the doctor who turned me into an addict by

handing me unlimited supplies of Percocet....

Mike

> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> meds.

>

> Mike,

>

> It is apparent that you do not know Dr. . I notice that

> he only drops in

July 21, 1998

Mike,

I can understand your confusion over the clippings from Dr. . And being

a support group leader, I also understand the problems with the news media. They

caused an awful lot of problems last year when we were trying to get some

coverage during CFS Advocacy day. They misquoted and twisted things all around.

A doctor they interviewed was also misquoted leading to an uprising in the CFS

community. When all was said and done, more harm than good was done and the

doctor said he would never again agree to any type of interview with a reporter.

And there was no way to get things corrected. Just a big mess, so we have become

very cautious of the media which is a shame because what other way do we have to

get information out to the public masses?

I don't know what type of illness you have or what the reason was for your

taking pain meds, but studies are being done all the time showing that people

who are in really ligitimate pain have a less that 5% chance of actually

becoming addicted, which is not to be confused with dependency. There are those

few though who do have the propensity to become addicted to mood altering drugs

even when given to them appropriately. Not to say there are not doctors who do

not prescribe with caution and monitor their patients as they should. I have

known of doctors who themselves were addicts and eventually had their license

revoked for prescribing drugs to anybody who wanted them, and these were most

often the addicts who knew where to go to get them. Then I know of very good

doctors who were trying the best they knew how to treat patients with a

difficult illness and they also lost their license. It is unfortunate that you

suffered from an addiction that you feel was caused by a doctor. NOt knowing

more about the situation, I cannot pass judgement on either of you. Just like

parents who let their children do anything they want to do because it is easier

on them than working at being a parent, it can also happen with a doctor. Often

times they either don't want to be bothered with the extra time involved in

monitoring and leading the patient in the right direction for other help they

may need, or they may no longer have the interests they may once had for being

a doctor. There are any number of reasons. This is a highly sensitive area and

one which should be monitored and doctors should have more education also from

all aspects of patients they might be dealing with. It is not that difficult to

spot someone who is abusing drugs or has drug seeking behavior, especially if

they are mainly using one physician. And for those who want it, they will find a

way to get it, whether it be from a doctor or off the street. These are the

people who go doctor hopping requesting pain meds on a consistent basis. And

their reasons will usually vary from one doc to the next. It is the drug addict,

not the doctor who should be prosecuted.

I may be dependent on my pain meds, but I will be forever indebted to my doctor

for his understanding and compassion for me and my illness. Before being

properly treated, I was always on the verge of tears and often suicidal because

the pain was so horrible. I just could not bear to think that I was going to

live like this the rest of my life, and not even knowing what was causing the

pain. With my medication I am at least functional much more than before and the

anxiety and depression levels are down to the point that I can at least enjoy

life despite my illness. I hope that there will come a day that I will no longer

need pain meds, but for this time in my life, it is something that is needed and

I will not be made to feel guilty about it from ex-addicts. I know a lot of them

and I have been to a lot of AA and Alanon meetings. When they have walked a mile

in my shoes, only then will they be qualified to pass judgement. I suffered a

lot os guilt with this early on with myh illness but I had do decide what was

best for me and only I can make that decision along with my doctor.

And as far as addiction goes, there is such a thing as choice. Often times

people want to blame others for their weaknesses and bad choices. As you have

seen on the list, there are people who have been given the option to take

narcotic pain meds but for personal reasons have opted not to do so. Even though

you may have meds in your possession it does not mean that you have to take

them. When people start taking their meds to get high and are not honest with

themselves about their reasons for taking them, then who is really at blame

here.

It is like all this mess going on with the tobacco companies right now. There

may have been cover ups but not that much was known about tobacco years ago. Now

people are out for blood. But nobody from the tobacco company made these people

smoke. I do not endorse smoking myself nor do I want to be around it, but if we

go after them, then anything that possesses the potential to be hazard to humans

in any way will also need to be scrutinized. And why have they singled out

tobacco and not alcohol? I dare say alcohol is responsible for more deaths each

year than tobacco. Where does is all stop. It must stop with the individual who

is willing to take responsibility for himself, not something that is mandated by

the government. If we continue to allow the government to call the shots, then

we wil no longer live in a free society. Coming back full circle here, if we

allow government to totally control how doctors are allowed to practice

medicine, then where does that leave us? And folks, it is slowly coming to that,

especially with the pressure and money from the insurance companies being used

call the shots. If we as patients and citizens do not get involved, then it will

surely happen. Just my comments and opinions for the day! Now this is freedom of

speech (not that I would not be surprised if some nosey busybody is not watching

and tattling about everything said on these lists!).

Vickie

Mike R Courteau wrote:

>

> Hi Vickie:

>

> >big snip<Finally, to the topic of Dr 's email. Clippings of media

> items may

> not have been the best way to state his concern. My family and I were

> reported on extensively in the local media for almost a year and a half.

> Never have I seen first hand so many twisted facts and outright lies.

> Sensationalism drives the media. If a story doesn't have enough " punch " ,

> make some up. If you can't, dump the story. The idea is even more prevalent

> in television. We started with shows where actors portrayed bad guys in

> movies, to shows were they re-enacted real crimes, to shows where they

> actually follow the police around and get live footage of the crime being

> committed ! Does anybody see anything wrong here ? Had Dr

> introduced his clippings with a small statement like " I know this good man

> and he is being falsely accused etc etc.. " my comments would have been

> different. He did not. I therefore stand by my statement and I am prepared

> to debate the issue with him and provide real examples (drawn

> from_personal_experience) of medical, unethical and blatantly amoral

> malpractice, without the benefit of sensationalism if he wishes. I could

> start with my experience with the doctor who turned me into an addict by

> handing me unlimited supplies of Percocet....

>

> Mike

>

> > Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> > meds.

> >

> > Mike,

> >

> > It is apparent that you do not know Dr. . I notice that

> > he only drops in

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

July 22, 1998

You are so right. In the small town where I live the only psychiatrist who

would take Medicare and Medicaid patients was busted for fraudulent

billing. He went to several small towns around here and nursing homes. He

was in a different town every day and I had never been in office that it

wasn't packed. The FBI raided him with no warning. Some pharmacies stopped

filling his rxºs because until he went to court he could still practice. ON

two not one but two occasions they sent undercover cops in he listened to

them and gave them a RX and an appointment for a follow up. He was arrested

on both occasions because unless you know a patient well how do you know

if they are sitting there telling the truth or setting you up to bust you.

The sad thing is in this Drs case when he got out of med school he was

offered to be set up in an office if he would go partners with the man who

had the money. It helped him get started and then to build his practice.

Well there was a hitch to all of this, his partner took care of the

business end money ins ect. And when he was busted it was for a lot of

money that they felt like he had defrauded the state of. The sad thing is

he had no ideal what kind of money was coming in that was his partners end.

I truly do not believe he knew anything about the business end. He was

working his tail off everyday so he figured when he was able to afford a

new car that was why. He got something like 7yrs. the partner 2 or 3 and he

was the one that had filed everything and handled the money and was holding

it, in other words he took a young man who was poor offered to set him up

and to a Dr starting out that is a dream come through because they still

have student loans to pay off among other expenses. he made the mistake of

#1 having a partner that wasn't a Dr and then letting them do the billing

under his name a license

and when he gets out of prison I donºt belief he will every be able to

practice again because they took his medical license. There have been Drs

around her that have done much worse and they are still in practice. This

Dr was a man you could call at any hour day or night and he was calling you

back within 25 min. He honestly care about his patients. I missed the post

you were referring to do you mind sending me a copy Take care Barbara

----------

>

> To: chronic_painonelist

> Subject: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

meds.

> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 9:45 AM

>

> At 10:28 PM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:

> >

> >Dear Mr. ;

>

> actually it is Doctor, Mike..... I went to school for about 23 years to

be

> able to say that.

>

> I'm sorry you are so muddled Mike and full of gas.

>

> The point of the articles was to show that doctors who prescribe pain

> medications are in danger of going to jail for 25 years. It is more than

> just loosing a license or lively hood it is the threat of incarceration.

>

> The undercover agents are allowed to lie and tell untruths to trick the

> doctor.

>

> I can understand clearly now why many pain docs don't take new patients.

> It is to prevent them from getting tricked by the undercover police.

>

> How can a doctor PROVE that a patient has pain. He has to believe what

> they say. And by the way, if you think police always tell the truth on

> the stand in court. Talk with a million black drug addicts who are

> arrested every year.

> They know the police don't tell the truth much of the time, because if

they

> did, most of the drug cases would be thrown out of court because of

illegal

> search and siezure.

>

> >

> >I'm sorry to say that never has an email left me so much in the dark. At

the

> >risk of sounding rude, I missed the point of your posting. I sure hope

you

> >weren't looking for public support from a bunch of chronic pain

patients,

> >most of whom could probably write a book about " bad or even unethical

> >medical " practices. If that is what you were looking for, let's look at

it

> >from the point of view that we only have one side of the story and

therefore

> >we cannot pass judgement on the good doctor.

> >

> >To the rest of the newsgroup; sorry if I've made anyone uncomfortable.

If

> >I've misinterpreted the intent of the email, please tell me now so that

I

> >may apologize before I make a bigger ass of myself. Let's just say that

this

> >is a topic which has the same noticeable effect on me as radishes and

> >cucumbers. It gives me gas.

> >

> >Mike

> >

> >> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> >> meds.

> >>

> >> DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

July 22, 1998

At 09:02 AM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>Regarding prescribing pain medications: My wife who is an OB/GYN and had a

>partner who they forced out because she was addicted to pain meds and was

>forging my wife's signature to get them, has decided to not keep any

>controlled medications in her office. If its not there it can't be abused

>by staff. If anyone wants a pain medication prescribed they have to make an

>appointment and see the doctor personally. They only write the prescription

>for enough med to the next appointment or for one month, which ever is the

>shorter period. To renew the prescription the patient has to see the doctor

>again. No phone call requests are honored for any controlled substance. If

>a patient needs help at night they are told to go to the emergency room.

>New patients must have a complete workup and all medical records are suppose

>to be obtained from previous doctors. They have even called other doctors

>just to make sure that the new patient isn't getting " double " prescriptions

>for controlled pain meds by running to different offices. At least this way

>she avoids any of the problems you have related concerning other doctors

>accused of abusing prescribing privileges.

>Ray in Virginia

That is exactly right Ray!

If the office will follow strict guidelines then no one should get into

trouble.

The place where I get worried is when they send in under cover agent who

can lie.

How can you really know if a patient is in pain.

SIncerely,

Donovan J. M.D.

Email address donavan@...

Web Page http://www.ctaz.com/~donavan

July 22, 1998

>

>That's OK Doctor, I only have 22 but I won't stand on formalities, you can

>still call me Mike !

>

>Thanks to all for listening and my apologies for the lengthy post. Now I'd

>like to get back to aches and pains, compassion and support, love and poems

>and all that good stuff for fellow list members if that's OK.

>

>Mike

>

You can call me Donovan, Mike however, love and support and poems won't get

it done.

The government and its DEA agent etc are out of control.

To put your head in the sand and hope it goes away will help no one.

Sincerly,

Donovan J. M.D.

Email address donavan@...

Web Page http://www.ctaz.com/~donavan

July 22, 1998

What you describe is exactly the way my doctor handles things also. I don't

know if he has had a situation where staff was a problem, but the rest is

the same. Here in Canada, there is also a lot of problems with the Health

Care system refusing to pay doctors in some instances. There have been cases

of billing for services not rendered so they had to clamp down.

Unfortunately, clamp down in government is equivalent to " choke the duck

until he dies " and they have gone way overboard. It smells more like punish

everyone for the faults of the few rather than putting controls in place to

catch the few. I used to be able to renew my meds over the phone but since

the clamp down, my doctor insists I go in which is OK by me. It just means

we talk more often.

Mike

> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> meds.

>

> Regarding prescribing pain medications: My wife who is an OB/GYN

> and had a

> partner who they forced out because she was addicted to pain meds and was

> forging my wife's signature to get them, has decided to not keep any

> controlled medications in her office. If its not there it can't be abused

> by staff. If anyone wants a pain medication prescribed they have

> to make an

> appointment and see the doctor personally. They only write the

> prescription

> for enough med to the next appointment or for one month, which ever is the

> shorter period. To renew the prescription the patient has to see

> the doctor

> again. No phone call requests are honored for any controlled

> substance. If

July 22, 1998

My own Dr who will give you something for pain after you have seen her long

enough and she has worked with and observed you and sees you are in pain

and even then until she really gets to know you she has to protect herself

so she will give you something and watch you.She counts pills knows how

long they should last and will not give you anything in between without

seeing you but I understand she has to protected her back side.. She even

called my pharmacy to make sure I wasn't getting doubles I see her once

sometime two times a month if I am sicker than usual but I have a wonderful

relationship with her and I was in so much pain that by the time I got to

her I was suicidal I was in so much pain I was going crazy.. This wonderful

caring Dr had some jerks who stole her rx pads and tried to forge her name

all over town. Now those have to be kept under lock and key with 1 in her

coat pocket. I mean until this happened she had then in the office not out

in view but in a drawer. I was so upset at what they did to her, she is a

Dr who has compassion lives in a state that have some of the laxer drug

laws on pres. for chronic pain. I don't know if it was someone that had a

problem and was turned down so after she left they tore the exam room a

part until they found them I don't know what the story on it was other than

they stole her pads and was trying to pass them everywhere and she lives in

a big city. So Drs have to becareful jerks like that are what makes it hard

for us in chronic pain to get the meds we need, Pandora

----------

>

> To: chronic_painonelist

> Subject: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

meds.

> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 5:46 AM

>

> At 09:02 AM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

> >

> >Regarding prescribing pain medications: My wife who is an OB/GYN and

had a

> >partner who they forced out because she was addicted to pain meds and

was

> >forging my wife's signature to get them, has decided to not keep any

> >controlled medications in her office. If its not there it can't be

abused

> >by staff. If anyone wants a pain medication prescribed they have to

make an

> >appointment and see the doctor personally. They only write the

prescription

> >for enough med to the next appointment or for one month, which ever is

the

> >shorter period. To renew the prescription the patient has to see the

doctor

> >again. No phone call requests are honored for any controlled substance.

If

> >a patient needs help at night they are told to go to the emergency room.

> >New patients must have a complete workup and all medical records are

suppose

> >to be obtained from previous doctors. They have even called other

doctors

> >just to make sure that the new patient isn't getting " double "

prescriptions

> >for controlled pain meds by running to different offices. At least this

way

> >she avoids any of the problems you have related concerning other doctors

> >accused of abusing prescribing privileges.

> >Ray in Virginia

>

> That is exactly right Ray!

>

> If the office will follow strict guidelines then no one should get into

> trouble.

>

> The place where I get worried is when they send in under cover agent who

> can lie.

>

> How can you really know if a patient is in pain.

>

> SIncerely,

>

> Donovan J. M.D.

> Email address donavan@...

> Web Page http://www.ctaz.com/~donavan

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

July 22, 1998

Ken,

You are right about having to curtail some of the physical activity. I

still make big gardening plans, but it takes forever to get anything done.

As I've pointed out in these posts before I try to think small scale now and

concentrate on planting very small plots at one time. Fatigue overcomes me

much more quickly than ever before. I often get the shakes when I try to do

too much physical activity at any one time. Right now I might work 20-30

minutes then take an hour break before going back for another 20-30 minutes

of garden work or housecleaning. It is frustrating, yes, but it is the only

way to get through the day any more. I can't help but feel like I've had to

give up a large part of my life due to the RS...and the doc said, " This

won't really affect how you live your life. " What a lie that was! It is

affecting how I live, what I do, and even how I feel. I had to retire from

the ministry almost two years ago because the stress of pastoring a rapidly

growing church kept me from managing my disease appropriately. Took six

months or more to get back in control of it after resigning. I do some

substitute teaching for elementary schools in the area and would like a full

time teaching job, if one ever comes along. Until then, I'm completing the

few hours of graduate education I need to get my principalship license. It

keeps me busy.

I have refused all pain medication up to now. I have used NSAIDs and

anti-depressants to manage the pain. Recently the combo hasn't worked too

well. This week I started taking Wygesic at 65 mg every 6-8 hrs. It can be

taken every 4 hours. I am on a new anti-depressant Sersone(?) 100 mg BID

which is not suppose to have as many side-effects as say amitryptiline does.

I can increase this dosage too, up to 300 mg. a day BID. I don't need the

anti-depressants at this time except to help manage pain. But I could tell

from the increase of pain and lack of relief, especially at night, that I

was headed downhill fast in the emotional category. I asked for a

prescription of Ambien 10 mg and am now getting about 4-5 hours of sleep a

night instead of 2-3 at the most before the Wygesic, Ambien, & Sersone. I

have always managed the pain with increased activity, hot whirlpool baths,

heating pads, ice packs, and TENS unit. So I guess you could say, I've

just added a new weapon to my arsenal--pain meds. Remarkably, I haven't

encountered any of the " side-effects " I used to get when I tried pain meds

(light headedness, confusion, dizziness, nausea, etc.). If I had a drug of

choice to get addicted to, it would be Darvon/Wygesic. I took Darvon for

migraine headaches during my junior year in college way back in 1969-70.

Don't remember much about that semester, except I did get a 4.0. Guess I

was just so relaxed that the information was just absorbed without

resistance...Ha! Ha!

I have noticed in just the last 48-72 hours that I am feeling better. The

pain is not gone, but it is greatly diminished. My wife says I've stopped

groaning and crying out in my sleep. So I guess this is my admission that

you were right, and I was wrong about taking pain meds. You knew I'd get

smart sooner or later, didn't you.

I fought taking pain meds, not because I was afraid of addiction, but

because of the side-effects and because it seemed like giving in to the

disease. I now see it as a healthy accommodation to the disease, but one

that has great benefits for me, despite the side-effects. Funny how the

pain can reach such a level that prior objections to taking pain meds just

sort of evaporate. Thanks for the advice.

Ray in Virginia

----------------------------------------------------

Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 14278868 or,

* Page me online through my Personal Communication Center:

http://wwp.mirabilis.com/14278868 (go there and try it!) or,

* Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen

14278868@...

For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/

Ray in Virginia

Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe

pain

>> >> >> meds.

>> >> >>

>> >> >> DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

>> >> >

>> >>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >> >

July 22, 1998

In an attempt to put this thing to rest once and for all, I would like to

propose the following:

In an effort to secure public support for a cause, both sides of the

argument should be presented. If a doctor seems to be the victim of

persecution, what is the other side of the coin ? From newspaper clippings

(and we've already had lengthy debate on the merits of truth in the media)

we know that a physician has had more than his share of hassles from the

DEA. Fine. What is the DEA's case against this person ? In other words,

assuming there are other doctors in his neighbourhood, why were they not

singled out ? I will, in any way I can, oppose any kind of harassment on

sex, race, religion, colour, even occupation...providing I am given the

proper ammunition to oppose it. The first 4 forms of harassment are easily

identified; the last is tougher. Just for the sake of argument, let's say

there are 100,000 physicians in the US. There has been no reporting of

100,000 physicians under investigation by the DEA. If there were, the would

be a strong case for undue harassment and it would surely bear looking into.

I can offer a real life example. Here in Ontario, Canada, some doctors were

found to double/triple bill the Health Care system. The media reported that

" doctors were abusing the system " . Not " some " doctors, but doctors. The

public outcry was so strong that some enlightened politicians (that's the

term for a politician who pulls his head out of his butt long enough to

notice it's daylight outside before putting it back in) pushed for controls

that would scrutinize " everything " doctors were billing for. One of the

things put in place is a ruling that a physician must physically touch your

health card to put a bill through. In other words, no telephone consults or

prescription renewals in my doctor's case. Another is a cap on how much

physicians can bill Health Care for. Just about everyone that earns less

than a doctor though this was great. Why should they get millions when some

have only hundreds to live on ? Few took the time to try to justify a

doctor's income.

Formal schooling is longer than most and more expensive. A big part of the

training when an intern includes long hours, rotten pay, and more learning

than most other occupations some of which consider that once school is over

you just go out, get a job and get paid well. The risk to others is one of

the biggest in that they shoulder an enormous amount of responsibility. A

competent physician can never ever stop studying, so much for a personal

life. A practice generates employment which contributes tax money to the

community but it also adds managerial responsibilities for the physician

over and above everything else. To top it all up, if you make a mistake,

chances are very good that you will lose your reputation, your patients,

your practice, and everything else that you love or own because serious

mistakes often include the death of another human being. With a lot of hard

work and many many years of practice, a doctor might get to a level of

specialization ( if he can find the time in his otherwise dull existence )

when he can command higher earnings which would be more representative of

all the work put in.

Nobody thinks twice about paying a computer consultant, a mechanic, a

grocer, even a paper boy a little extra based on good programming, better

work, nicer produce or a more timely newspaper delivery. Yet when it came to

paying doctors more for added experience, added learning and so on, they all

drew a line.

Now I've presented both sides of the argument and told you where I stand and

why. The Health Care Vs Physicians is wrong. It is harassment in that it

punishes all doctors because of the shady dealings of a few. The media

is/was wrong in reporting the story in a biased fashion by pointing the

finger to all doctors and they were doubly wrong in including things like

the annual cost of Health Care and the annual earnings of some of the

highest paid physicians without including qualifications which might have

justified said earnings. What can I do ? What I've done and still do. I

wrote to politicians, never got an answer. I state my concerns openly and I

am just waiting for the next elections to make my views really known. I

would also like to point out that the saying " nobody is worth XXX dollars "

is bull (my opinion). You get what you pay for and if you are willing to pay

higher prices for a service available at a lower cost, then the amount is

worth it and the individual receiving the money must be worth it or you

wouldn't be there. Do I have access to these people I defend ? I wish. But

the fact I can't take advantage of their services NOT negate the argument.

All it does is open a debate on the accessibility of Health Care and that is

another topic altogether. The fact that I take an overall dim view of the

medical profession based on multiple bad personal experiences also does NOT

negate the argument.

The 4 paragraphs above are my case as I put it to whoever will listen in an

attempt to gather public support. It is based on facts which can be

substantiated and on my personal arguments on whether an individual is

entitled to fair compensation. Should the public at large decide to jump on

my " bad wagon " , fine. Should they decide not to, also fine. It is called

freedom of choice.

Perhaps the case for Dr. ? ( I apologize for forgetting his name) could be

presented in the same way, with arguments, counter-arguments, and facts. I

happen to know of some MD's who will give out prescriptions for a fee. They

are a menace to all, a danger to the community, a black mark on their

profession, and very very rich which allows them to get the best legal

services to defend them. I haven't seen arguments that this is not the case

in this particular situation. I will give the doctor the benefit of the

doubt which I will do for anyone until I am proven wrong in doing so. I will

not however jump in to defend him until I have valid information to do so.

Am I asking too much ?

I stated earlier that I wished to put this thing to rest and I do, but I

just can't resist the following:

>

> At 10:28 PM 7/20/98 -0400, you wrote:

> >

> >Dear Mr. ;

>

> actually it is Doctor, Mike..... I went to school for about 23

> years to be able to say that.

That's OK Doctor, I only have 22 but I won't stand on formalities, you can

still call me Mike !

Thanks to all for listening and my apologies for the lengthy post. Now I'd

like to get back to aches and pains, compassion and support, love and poems

and all that good stuff for fellow list members if that's OK.

Mike

July 22, 1998

Ray,

I guess kindness affects us different ways. Suppose the doc who told you

" it wouldn't affect your life very much " was trying to be kind. Once I got to

people who were experienced in chronic pain management it was more like " plan

for the worst, we'll be with you. " But the doc who first Dx'd my problems looked

at the Merk Manual & said " you won't be able to control your bodily functions in

10 years. " Seems to me there just isn't any right answer, and the time you were

misadvised is about the same time I was too. It was a different world. People

didn't live that long, by & large, that they would suffer commonly from chronic

conditions (most people, that is).

While gloom & doom isn't of any use, the extreme euphoria that goes " sure

I'm in tremendous pain, but I can manage it, its OK " is also wrong. Medicine in

general & the l public have been sold a bill of goods about the magical

manageability of chronic pain. Routinly giving elavil does not have a strong

enough research foundation in my view, but it sure has side-effects.

Yes, you need to keep in good condition physicallly & mentally. You need to

change body habits & develop compensating muscle groups & ways of doing things

to minimize bad stress on vulnerable body parts. When I was doing the hero

number my wife told me I would gnash my teeth, groan & fall out of bed at night.

That should have given me a clue that things weren't right, but it didn't.

Are you going to abuse pain meds? I strongly doubt it. You are a mature

individual now, who understands you may need them indefinitely, so I bet you

will be pretty careful. But you also have to remind yourself that your meds are

prescribed for you to take. Tens can be helpful too, but there are many kinds &

new developments. I am not up with the technology & have a dual channel computer

chip driven thing that works pretty well for me. But I would like to try a

4-channel. I found that on my sleepless nights using the tens continuously helps

with sleep. But that's Vegas, not NY.

At this point, I have become more inactive than ever in my life. There is a

lot less pain & I need a lot less meds. I had little choice but to redefine my

life so that I work at home, and without a very regular schedule. My goals are a

little looser & my ambitions altered, but not gone. I try to do what I can carry

through, and stop there. Fortunately, I have made some very good friends who

understand this.

I won't give up the idea of benefit from physical conditioning, but I can't

do it consistently now. A chiropractor friend of mine once said " the body

exercises itself. " I was recovering from surgery at the time & my tolerances

were down to nill. I began to respect those words more & more, rather than

putting myself through contrived activity that made me feel worse all the time.

I just went out to a store for an hour or so & walked around with a shopping

cart. Shopping cart therapy? More surgery might help me, but I'm deeply tired of

surgery.

I think I & perhaps you need to allow ourselves to do less more comfortably.

What we do as work is a problem, because we measure ourselves by what we do. I

don " t know how to stop doing that, but I have been trying hard to learn. A few

years ago while I was still in NY, I had gotten to what I thought was my lowest

point. From a respected mover & shaker I had become the person tagging along

with his wife.

The pain vs. career/money battle consumed so much energy I had almost forgotten

about friends. Also I was making poor life decisions. It would have been better

if I prepared my family better for disability rather than by denying it.

You can still be a vital person even if you switch gears. And less

destructive physical stress could let you have more satisfying personal

relations, lesss scarred by pain.

Question: Do you sit on a chair, stool or the ground when you garden? And

what about a self-propelled or riding mower, and isn't there someone you can

hire to move the snow?

Ken

H. R. Neal wrote:

>

> Ken,

> You are right about having to curtail some of the physical activity. I

> still make big gardening plans, but it takes forever to get anything done.

> As I've pointed out in these posts before I try to think small scale now and

> concentrate on planting very small plots at one time. Fatigue overcomes me

> much more quickly than ever before. I often get the shakes when I try to do

> too much physical activity at any one time. Right now I might work 20-30

> minutes then take an hour break before going back for another 20-30 minutes

> of garden work or housecleaning. It is frustrating, yes, but it is the only

> way to get through the day any more. I can't help but feel like I've had to

> give up a large part of my life due to the RS...and the doc said, " This

> won't really affect how you live your life. " What a lie that was! It is

> affecting how I live, what I do, and even how I feel. I had to retire from

> the ministry almost two years ago because the stress of pastoring a rapidly

> growing church kept me from managing my disease appropriately. Took six

> months or more to get back in control of it after resigning. I do some

> substitute teaching for elementary schools in the area and would like a full

> time teaching job, if one ever comes along. Until then, I'm completing the

> few hours of graduate education I need to get my principalship license. It

> keeps me busy.

>

> I have refused all pain medication up to now. I have used NSAIDs and

> anti-depressants to manage the pain. Recently the combo hasn't worked too

> well. This week I started taking Wygesic at 65 mg every 6-8 hrs. It can be

> taken every 4 hours. I am on a new anti-depressant Sersone(?) 100 mg BID

> which is not suppose to have as many side-effects as say amitryptiline does.

> I can increase this dosage too, up to 300 mg. a day BID. I don't need the

> anti-depressants at this time except to help manage pain. But I could tell

> from the increase of pain and lack of relief, especially at night, that I

> was headed downhill fast in the emotional category. I asked for a

> prescription of Ambien 10 mg and am now getting about 4-5 hours of sleep a

> night instead of 2-3 at the most before the Wygesic, Ambien, & Sersone. I

> have always managed the pain with increased activity, hot whirlpool baths,

> heating pads, ice packs, and TENS unit. So I guess you could say, I've

> just added a new weapon to my arsenal--pain meds. Remarkably, I haven't

> encountered any of the " side-effects " I used to get when I tried pain meds

> (light headedness, confusion, dizziness, nausea, etc.). If I had a drug of

> choice to get addicted to, it would be Darvon/Wygesic. I took Darvon for

> migraine headaches during my junior year in college way back in 1969-70.

> Don't remember much about that semester, except I did get a 4.0. Guess I

> was just so relaxed that the information was just absorbed without

> resistance...Ha! Ha!

>

> I have noticed in just the last 48-72 hours that I am feeling better. The

> pain is not gone, but it is greatly diminished. My wife says I've stopped

> groaning and crying out in my sleep. So I guess this is my admission that

> you were right, and I was wrong about taking pain meds. You knew I'd get

> smart sooner or later, didn't you.

> I fought taking pain meds, not because I was afraid of addiction, but

> because of the side-effects and because it seemed like giving in to the

> disease. I now see it as a healthy accommodation to the disease, but one

> that has great benefits for me, despite the side-effects. Funny how the

> pain can reach such a level that prior objections to taking pain meds just

> sort of evaporate. Thanks for the advice.

> Ray in Virginia

> ----------------------------------------------------

> Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 14278868 or,

> * Page me online through my Personal Communication Center:

> http://wwp.mirabilis.com/14278868 (go there and try it!) or,

> * Send me E-mail Express directly to my computer screen

> 14278868@...

> For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/

> Ray in Virginia

> Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe

> pain

> >> >> >> meds.

> >> >> >>

> >> >> >> DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

> >> >> >

> >> >>

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >> >> >

July 22, 1998

Thanks again, Ken. Yes, I have a self-propelled mower and even though much

of the yard is slopes, riding lawn mowers are beginning to look very

interesting, especially with the foot/heel pain that accompanies RS, not to

mention swollen left knee and inflamed right hip. As to snow, I don't

shovel our entirely too long driveway. I hire someone with a blade on a

truck to do it for me. I do shovel the short path from the drive to back

door. The longer path to the front door, can wait for warmer temps.

Luckily during the last five years we have only had two winters where snow

was a problem. Seldom stays very cold here for very long at a time. Glad I

don't live further up the mountains. We have had friends snowed in for ten

to twelve days. Some folks on the mountains have driveways that are over a

mile long through deep woods and along narrow creek beds. Used to dream

about owning such a retreat, but I'm more realistic now about the amount of

work it would demand. I'll stick with our country club subdivision which is

less than three minutes from my wife's practice and the hospital where she

sees patients.

Do I use a stool? No, but I've started using a cane to bend over and stand

back up. I do a lot of gardening sitting or lying on the ground. It's been

too hot to do much in the garden these past few weeks. Just bought a pair

of knee protectors, but haven't tried them yet. I can't stand to kneel

because of the knee discomfort but thought the knee pads might be helpful.

I use special tools to compensate for the pain in the hands, sort of a metal

claw. Used to just dig with hands and fingers, but forget that with our

hard-rock clay and the inflammation in my finger joints and wrists. I'm

constantly trying new ergonomic tools as they come on the market. They

really do make a difference, especially with the back pain.

I'm even contemplating hiring a local teenager to cultivate the new flower

beds I've been planning. I fatigue so quickly ending up with the shakes

when I use my rototiller. We have hard-rock clay soil. I've found that its

much easier to grow plants that thrive in poor soil than it is to try to

change the soil conditions. Raised beds where you just dump new good soil

over the old bad stuff is also much easier than tilling up and ammending the

soil. I'm thinking about writing a gardening book for handicapped and

physically limited folks with the solutions I and others have come up with

for continuing to garden with limitations. This is the first year I've

tried putting plants in pots on the porches. They look great and I think

I'll try it again next year, only with bigger pots.

I always said I wanted to retire before I was 50. Just didn't realize that

when I did retire at age 47 almost two years ago that it would be due to

physical problems and not the luxury of financial success. My wife never

was much of a homemaker so she is delighted to have me do the cooking,

shopping, and cleaning while she continues her very successful career.

Unlike some friends who feel that their wife's success threatens their

masculinity, I'm delighted that my wife makes as much as 10 times what I

could as a teacher or pastor. It gives me the luxury to deal with my

physical problems without worrying unduly about finances. I do wish I could

contribute more to the income, but that's the way it is right now. Who

knows, with all this extra time this winter maybe I'll write the great

American novel...or science fiction short story, perhaps.

My mother has Sjogren's syndrome and terminal interstitial lung disease. My

dad has asked me to write her story for publication. So far it is both

humorous and tear-jerking. She went through what many on the list have

complained about with doctors discounting her complaints and symptoms as

" psychological " right up until she had to start taking oxygen 24 hours a

day. Sort of hard to discount the fact that your blood oxygen level just

crashed. Even the doctors couldn't charge her with a psychiatric problem on

that issue. One good point, though, out of her experience is that both my

Mom and Dad have apologized to me for not believing my physical complaints

years ago. The doctors kept telling them it was all in my head even when

they could see the swollen knees and hands and feet. Now my younger

brothers are both complaining of similar problems to mine and my parents are

telling them to check out whether they too might have Reiters.

Ken, you are a wealth of information and good advice. I consider you a real

friend even though we have never met. I appreciate the way you share so

freely of your own experiences. Sorry life has given you such a raw deal in

the physical sense. You are better than a psychiatrist for me! Only ever

met one that really helped me and then he decided to stop private practice

and just work for a state psych facility in order to have more time for his

wife and young children.

Have a great evening!

Ray

July 22, 1998

Well put

----------

>

> To: chronic_painonelist

> Subject: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

meds.

> Date: Tuesday, July 21, 1998 11:58 AM

>

> Mike,

> FYI, Dr. Donovan is a physician specialized in chronic pain

whi

> treats one or 2 patients on the list. He is particularly concerned about

the

> needs of patients & their doctors coming into regulatory conflict.

> Ken

>

> Mike R Courteau wrote:

>

> >

> > Dear Mr. ;

> >

> > I'm sorry to say that never has an email left me so much in the dark.

At the

> > risk of sounding rude, I missed the point of your posting. I sure hope

you

> > weren't looking for public support from a bunch of chronic pain

patients,

> > most of whom could probably write a book about " bad or even unethical

> > medical " practices. If that is what you were looking for, let's look at

it

> > from the point of view that we only have one side of the story and

therefore

> > we cannot pass judgement on the good doctor.

> >

> > To the rest of the newsgroup; sorry if I've made anyone uncomfortable.

If

> > I've misinterpreted the intent of the email, please tell me now so that

I

> > may apologize before I make a bigger ass of myself. Let's just say that

this

> > is a topic which has the same noticeable effect on me as radishes and

> > cucumbers. It gives me gas.

> >

> > Mike

> >

> > > Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

> > > meds.

> > >

> > > DON'T LIMIT DOCTORS' PRESCRIPTION OF MEDICATION

> >

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

July 23, 1998

Hi Ray,

Thanks for the kudos, but I was just concerned about over-reaching. Its

probably one of the hardest things to control. Sounds like you have been

very methodical about trying to adapt what you do. Retire? Nahh, you just

get liberated and change direction.

My family war stories-- well for many years I had a great life & literally

got to do virtually everything I hoped to. So I had a collection of

problems in a clump instead of spread out. But thanks for the kind thought.

It helps.

Ken

At 08:41 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

>

>Thanks again, Ken. Yes, I have a self-propelled mower and even though much

>of the yard is slopes, riding lawn mowers are beginning to look very

>interesting, especially with the foot/heel pain that accompanies RS, not to

>mention swollen left knee and inflamed right hip. As to snow, I don't

>shovel our entirely too long driveway. I hire someone with a blade on a

>truck to do it for me. I do shovel the short path from the drive to back

>door. The longer path to the front door, can wait for warmer temps.

>Luckily during the last five years we have only had two winters where snow

>was a problem. Seldom stays very cold here for very long at a time. Glad I

>don't live further up the mountains. We have had friends snowed in for ten

>to twelve days. Some folks on the mountains have driveways that are over a

>mile long through deep woods and along narrow creek beds. Used to dream

>about owning such a retreat, but I'm more realistic now about the amount of

>work it would demand. I'll stick with our country club subdivision which is

>less than three minutes from my wife's practice and the hospital where she

>sees patients.

>

>Do I use a stool? No, but I've started using a cane to bend over and stand

>back up. I do a lot of gardening sitting or lying on the ground. It's been

>too hot to do much in the garden these past few weeks. Just bought a pair

>of knee protectors, but haven't tried them yet. I can't stand to kneel

>because of the knee discomfort but thought the knee pads might be helpful.

>I use special tools to compensate for the pain in the hands, sort of a metal

>claw. Used to just dig with hands and fingers, but forget that with our

>hard-rock clay and the inflammation in my finger joints and wrists. I'm

>constantly trying new ergonomic tools as they come on the market. They

>really do make a difference, especially with the back pain.

>

>I'm even contemplating hiring a local teenager to cultivate the new flower

>beds I've been planning. I fatigue so quickly ending up with the shakes

>when I use my rototiller. We have hard-rock clay soil. I've found that its

>much easier to grow plants that thrive in poor soil than it is to try to

>change the soil conditions. Raised beds where you just dump new good soil

>over the old bad stuff is also much easier than tilling up and amending the

>soil. I'm thinking about writing a gardening book for handicapped and

>physically limited folks with the solutions I and others have come up with

>for continuing to garden with limitations. This is the first year I've

>tried putting plants in pots on the porches. They look great and I think

>I'll try it again next year, only with bigger pots.

>

>I always said I wanted to retire before I was 50. Just didn't realize that

>when I did retire at age 47 almost two years ago that it would be due to

>physical problems and not the luxury of financial success. My wife never

>was much of a homemaker so she is delighted to have me do the cooking,

>shopping, and cleaning while she continues her very successful career.

>Unlike some friends who feel that their wife's success threatens their

>masculinity, I'm delighted that my wife makes as much as 10 times what I

>could as a teacher or pastor. It gives me the luxury to deal with my

>physical problems without worrying unduly about finances. I do wish I could

>contribute more to the income, but that's the way it is right now. Who

>knows, with all this extra time this winter maybe I'll write the great

>American novel...or science fiction short story, perhaps.

>

>My mother has Sjogren's syndrome and terminal interstitial lung disease. My

>dad has asked me to write her story for publication. So far it is both

>humorous and tear-jerking. She went through what many on the list have

>complained about with doctors discounting her complaints and symptoms as

> " psychological " right up until she had to start taking oxygen 24 hours a

>day. Sort of hard to discount the fact that your blood oxygen level just

>crashed. Even the doctors couldn't charge her with a psychiatric problem on

>that issue. One good point, though, out of her experience is that both my

>Mom and Dad have apologized to me for not believing my physical complaints

>years ago. The doctors kept telling them it was all in my head even when

>they could see the swollen knees and hands and feet. Now my younger

>brothers are both complaining of similar problems to mine and my parents are

>telling them to check out whether they too might have Reiters.

>

>Ken, you are a wealth of information and good advice. I consider you a real

>friend even though we have never met. I appreciate the way you share so

>freely of your own experiences. Sorry life has given you such a raw deal in

>the physical sense. You are better than a psychiatrist for me! Only ever

>met one that really helped me and then he decided to stop private practice

>and just work for a state psych facility in order to have more time for his

>wife and young children.

>

>Have a great evening!

>Ray

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

August 7, 1998

>

>To: <chronic_painonelist>

>Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 19:44:49 -0400

>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162

>Mailing-List: list chronic_painonelist; contact http://www.onelist.com

>Delivered-To: mailing list chronic_painonelist

>Reply-to: chronic_painonelist

>Subject: Fw: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to

prescribe pain meds.

>

>Ken please use this letter and not the attached one I can't get it deleted

>but use this one please.

>----------

>> From: Be2u4u@...

>> To: icu2@...

>> Subject: Fwd: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

>meds.

>> Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 7:20 PM

>>

>> In a message dated 8/6/98 6:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

>icu2@...

>> writes:

>>

>> << Subj: Re: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

>> meds.

>> Date: 8/6/98 6:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time

>> From: icu2@... (ANA)

>> To: be2u4u@...

>>

>> Ken, Could you get this message out to everyone please? A very dear

>friend

>> of mine who had lived in constant pain for more years than I have know

>him

>> needs everyone's prayers. He has been rear ended 3 times and has bad

>back

>> problems. The last surgery he had didn't do to well and he wound up

>> throwing a blood clot that landed in his lung. Through all of this I

>have

>> never heard him say why me one time. I also have never seen him let his

>> pain show. You knew he was in pain but he never complained and always

>was

>> the first to laugh at a joke. I have never heard him raise his voice

>ever.

>> In our family which is close he is the only grandfather and not just for

>> his but for their cousins as well 12 children total. The other

>children's

>> grandfathers are have either passed away or they don't take time at all

>with

>> their grandchildren. Bobby had always been their for every child. He

>and

>> his wife are very special people. Last Sunday he had a heart attack he

>was

>> just able to get to the phone and call his son in law he was in so much

>> pain his son in law did even recognize his voice. They live close by so

>he

>> was able to get there very fast and call EMT's they put him in this

>> hospital which for once I have to give them credit, they brought him

>back

>> when hid heart stopped while his wife and daughter were back with him.

>They

>> sent them out and worked and brought him back around. Today they

>> transferred

>> him to ville Fla where they have great health care. They did the

>> cather. and went on and did the angioplasty and put a pacemaker in

>> also they told his family that the heart attack was a bad one he is in

>very

>> critical condition But if he makes the next 48 hr. he has a chance would

>> everyone please say a prayer for this dear man? We all have been in

>pain

>> like he is and we can all understand that and I am a firm believer in

>> prayer. This is from a person who rarely goes to church, but my faith

>is

>> deep. When I had gangrene and had home IV's and fought to stop a

>nursing

>> agency from coming in to charge me 135bucks 3 times a day to do

>something I

>> was sure I could to with help from up above. I prayed and said Lord

>> without you I will never get through this please guide me. He was with

>me

>> and no one could believe how well I did. But I didn't do it the Lord

>did it.

>> So Please I know this is for chronic pain but this man has lived in it

>for

>> years with no support groups like we have and here I am being selfish

>but

>> my heart would break if we lose him he is young so please everyone

>remember

>> him in your prayers Thank you all so much Ana

>>

>> Return-Path:

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>Message-Id:

>

>To:

>Subject: Re: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain meds.

>Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 18:51:41 -0400

>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal

>X-Priority: 3

>X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162

>Mime-Version: 1.0

>Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

>

>Ken, Could you get this message out to everyone please? A very dear friend

>of mine who had lived in constant pain for more years than I have know him

>needs everyone's prayers. He has been rear ended 3 times and has bad back

>problems. The last surgery he had didn't do to well and he wound up

>throwing a blood clot that landed in his lung. Through all of this I have

>never heard him say why me one time. I also have never sense him let his

>pain show. You knew he was in pain but he never complained and always was

>the first to laugh at a joke. I have never heard him raise his voice ever.

>In our family which is close he is the only grandfather and not just for

>his but for their cousins as well 12 children total. The other children's

>grandfathers are have either passed away or they don't take time at ll with

>their grandchildren. Bobby had always been their for every child. He and

>his wife are very special people. Last Sunday he had a heart attack he was

>just able to get to the phone and call his son in law he was in so much

>pain his son in law did even reconisge his voice. They live close by so he

>was able to get there very fast and call EMT's they put him in this

>hospital which for once I have to give them credit, they brought him back

>when hid heart stopped while his wife and daughter were back with him. They

>sent them out and worked and brought him back around. Today they

>transferred

>him to ville Fla where they have great health care. They did the

>catheraisation and went on and did the angioplasty and put a pacemaker in

>also they told his family that the heart attack was a bad one he is in very

>chrital ccondition but if he makes the next 48 hrs he has a chance would

>everyone please say a prayer for this dear man? We all have been in pain

>like he is aand we can all understand that and I am a firm beliver in

>prayer. This is from a person wgo rarely goes to church, but my faith is

>deep. When I had gangrene and had home IV's and faught to stop a nursing

>agecy from coming in to charge me 135bucks 3 times a day to do something I

>was sure I could to with hhelp from up above. I prayed and said Lord

>without you I will never get throught this please guide me. He was with me

>and no one could belive how well I did. But I didn't do it the Lord did it.

>So Please I know this is for chronic pain but this man has lived in it for

>years with no support groups like we have aand here I am being selfish but

>my heart would break if we lose him he is young so please everyone remeber

>him in your prayers. Thanks to everyone Ana

>

>----------

>>

>> To: chronic_painonelist

>> Subject: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe pain

>meds.

>> Date: Thursday, July 23, 1998 2:06 AM

>>

>> Hi Ray,

>> Thanks for the kudos, but I was just concerned about over-reaching. Its

>> probably one of the hardest things to control. Sounds like you have been

>> very methodical about trying to adapt what you do. Retire? Nah, you just

>> get liberated and change direction.

>> My family war stories-- well for many years I had a great life &

>literally

>> got to do virtually everything I hoped to. So I had a collection of

>> problems in a clump instead of spread out. But thanks for the kind

>thought.

>> It helps.

>> Ken

>> At 08:41 PM 7/22/98 -0400, you wrote:

>> >

>> >Thanks again, Ken. Yes, I have a self-propelled mower and even though

>much

>> >of the yard is slopes, riding lawn mowers are beginning to look very

>> >interesting, especially with the foot/heel pain that accompanies RS, not

>to

>> >mention swollen left knee and inflamed right hip. As to snow, I don't

>> >shovel our entirely too long driveway. I hire someone with a blade on a

>> >truck to do it for me. I do shovel the short path from the drive to

>back

>> >door. The longer path to the front door, can wait for warmer temps.

>> >Luckily during the last five years we have only had two winters where

>snow

>> >was a problem. Seldom stays very cold here for very long at a time.

>Glad I

>> >don't live further up the mountains. We have had friends snowed in for

>ten

>> >to twelve days. Some folks on the mountains have driveways that are

>over a

>> >mile long through deep woods and along narrow creek beds. Used to dream

>> >about owning such a retreat, but I'm more realistic now about the amount

>of

>> >work it would demand. I'll stick with our country club subdivision

>which is

>> >less than three minutes from my wife's practice and the hospital where

>she

>> >sees patients.

>> >

>> >Do I use a stool? No, but I've started using a cane to bend over and

>stand

>> >back up. I do a lot of gardening sitting or lying on the ground. It's

>been

>> >too hot to do much in the garden these past few weeks. Just bought a

>pair

>> >of knee protectors, but haven't tried them yet. I can't stand to kneel

>> >because of the knee discomfort but thought the knee pads might be

>helpful.

>> >I use special tools to compensate for the pain in the hands, sort of a

>metal

>> >claw. Used to just dig with hands and fingers, but forget that with our

>> >hard-rock clay and the inflammation in my finger joints and wrists. I'm

>> >constantly trying new ergonomic tools as they come on the market. They

>> >really do make a difference, especially with the back pain.

>> >

>> >I'm even contemplating hiring a local teenager to cultivate the new

>flower

>> >beds I've been planning. I fatigue so quickly ending up with the shakes

>> >when I use my rototiller. We have hard-rock clay soil. I've found that

>its

>> >much easier to grow plants that thrive in poor soil than it is to try to

>> >change the soil conditions. Raised beds where you just dump new good

>soil

>> >over the old bad stuff is also much easier than tilling up and amending

>the

>> >soil. I'm thinking about writing a gardening book for handicapped and

>> >physically limited folks with the solutions I and others have come up

>with

>> >for continuing to garden with limitations. This is the first year I've

>> >tried putting plants in pots on the porches. They look great and I

>think

>> >I'll try it again next year, only with bigger pots.

>> >

>> >I always said I wanted to retire before I was 50. Just didn't realize

>that

>> >when I did retire at age 47 almost two years ago that it would be due to

>> >physical problems and not the luxury of financial success. My wife

>never

>> >was much of a homemaker so she is delighted to have me do the cooking,

>> >shopping, and cleaning while she continues her very successful career.

>> >Unlike some friends who feel that their wife's success threatens their

>> >masculinity, I'm delighted that my wife makes as much as 10 times what I

>> >could as a teacher or pastor. It gives me the luxury to deal with my

>> >physical problems without worrying unduly about finances. I do wish I

>could

>> >contribute more to the income, but that's the way it is right now. Who

>> >knows, with all this extra time this winter maybe I'll write the great

>> >American novel...or science fiction short story, perhaps.

>> >

>> >My mother has Sjogren's syndrome and terminal interstitial lung disease.

> My

>> >dad has asked me to write her story for publication. So far it is both

>> >humorous and tear-jerking. She went through what many on the list have

>> >complained about with doctors discounting her complaints and symptoms as

>> > " psychological " right up until she had to start taking oxygen 24 hours a

>> >day. Sort of hard to discount the fact that your blood oxygen level

>just

>> >crashed. Even the doctors couldn't charge her with a psychiatric

>problem on

>> >that issue. One good point, though, out of her experience is that both

>my

>> >Mom and Dad have apologized to me for not believing my physical

>complaints

>> >years ago. The doctors kept telling them it was all in my head even

>when

>> >they could see the swollen knees and hands and feet. Now my younger

>> >brothers are both complaining of similar problems to mine and my parents

>are

>> >telling them to check out whether they too might have Reiters.

>> >

>> >Ken, you are a wealth of information and good advice. I consider you a

>real

>> >friend even though we have never met. I appreciate the way you share so

>> >freely of your own experiences. Sorry life has given you such a raw

>deal in

>> >the physical sense. You are better than a psychiatrist for me! Only

>ever

>> >met one that really helped me and then he decided to stop private

>practice

>> >and just work for a state psych facility in order to have more time for

>his

>> >wife and young children.

>> >

>> >Have a great evening!

>> >Ray

>> >

>> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

>> >

August 26, 1998

I am sorry this is so late coming but I want to Thank everyone HE MADE IT

!! He will have to have open heart in 3 to 6 months when they get him build

up enough to go through the surgery, so he isn't all the way out of the

woods yet but it looks good I want to Thank everyone for their prayers I

really feel like without them we would have lost him Thank You so much and

may God Bless You All Ana

----------

>

> To: chronic_painonelist

> Subject: Fw: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to

prescribe pain meds.

> Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 7:44 PM

>

> Ken please use this letter and not the attached one I can't get it

deleted

> but use this one please.

> ----------

> > From: Be2u4u@...

> > To: icu2@...

> > Subject: Fwd: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe

pain

> meds.

> > Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 7:20 PM

> >

> > In a message dated 8/6/98 6:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

> icu2@...

> > writes:

> >

> > << Subj: Re: Re: Why Doctors are afraid to prescribe

pain

> > meds.

> > Date: 8/6/98 6:58:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time

> > From: icu2@... (ANA)

> > To: be2u4u@...

> >

> > Ken, Could you get this message out to everyone please? A very dear

> friend

> > of mine who had lived in constant pain for more years than I have know

> him

> > needs everyone's prayers. He has been rear ended 3 times and has bad

> back

> > problems. The last surgery he had didn't do to well and he wound up

> > throwing a blood clot that landed in his lung. Through all of this I

> have

> > never heard him say why me one time. I also have never seen him let

his

> > pain show. You knew he was in pain but he never complained and always

> was

> > the first to laugh at a joke. I have never heard him raise his voice

> ever.

> > In our family which is close he is the only grandfather and not just

for

> > his but for their cousins as well 12 children total. The other

> children's

> > grandfathers are have either passed away or they don't take time at

all

> with

> > their grandchildren. Bobby had always been their for every child. He

> and

> > his wife are very special people. Last Sunday he had a heart attack

he

> was

> > just able to get to the phone and call his son in law he was in so

much

> > pain his son in law did even recognize his voice. They live close by

so

> he

> > was able to get there very fast and call EMT's they put him in this

> > hospital which for once I have to give them credit, they brought him

> back

> > when hid heart stopped while his wife and daughter were back with him.

> They

> > sent them out and worked and brought him back around. Today they

> > transferred

> > him to ville Fla where they have great health care. They did

the

> > cather. and went on and did the angioplasty and put a pacemaker in

> > also they told his family that the heart attack was a bad one he is in

> very

> > critical condition But if he makes the next 48 hr. he has a chance

would

> > everyone please say a prayer for this dear man? We all have been in

> pain

> > like he is and we can all understand that and I am a firm believer in

> > prayer. This is from a person who rarely goes to church, but my faith

> is

> > deep. When I had gangrene and had home IV's and fought to stop a

> nursing

> > agency from coming in to charge me 135bucks 3 times a day to do

> something I

> > was sure I could to with help from up above. I prayed and said Lord

> > without you I will never get through this please guide me. He was

with

> me

> > and no one could believe how well I did. But I didn't do it the Lord

> did it.

> > So Please I know this is for chronic pain but this man has lived in it

> for

> > years with no support groups like we have and here I am being selfish

> but

> > my heart would break if we lose him he is young so please everyone

> remember

> > him in your prayers Thank you all so much Ana

> >

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