Re: Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 14/11/2007 15:27:08 GMT Standard Time, asosnov@...

writes:

What about native EN speakers of a low educational level: would they

understand what " orthostatic symptoms " are without special explications?

Absolutely not.

If they can, I think that I must find a simpler term. If they can not, I

assume

that this problem exists in the original EN version

I would certainly say so.

and therefore a technical term is permissible in translation.

Agreed.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 14/11/2007 17:27:52 GMT Standard Time, karkalas@...

writes:

A further thought. If there is an introductory section to this

questionnaire, I would add an explanation for orthostatic symptoms (or

orthostatic

depending on the context). If there is no introductory text, then adding an

explanation where the term first occurs might be useful (orthostatic symptoms,

i.e.,

symptoms that occur ...). This would explain the term to those unfamiliar

with it and make sure that patients/respondentA further thought. If there is an

introductory section to this questionnaire

Olga,

A translator cannot add explanations, imo. That is the author's job. Our job

is to translate what it says, using the same register, not act as volunteer

editors. The most we can do is send comments to the client.

[Guest guest]

What about " equilibrium troubles " for non educated people?

Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS)

Dear Colleagues,

I am checking a Russian translation of Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS). The

statements are like these:

I do not experience orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

I experience mild orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

I experience moderate orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and sometimes

have to sit back down for relief

I experience severe orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and frequently have

to sit back down for relief

etc.

The problem is with " orthostatic symptoms " . The client says that the

respondents could potentially be of any level of education. The translator's

" ортоÑтатичеÑкие Ñимптомы " is actually loan translation

that uses Latin

roots and is not intelligible to most people here. However, it is really

difficult to substitute it with a brief equivalent.

What about native EN speakers of a low educational level: would they

understand what " orthostatic symptoms " are without special explications? If

they can, I think that I must find a simpler term. If they can not, I assume

that this problem exists in the original EN version, and therefore a

technical term is permissible in translation.

Thank you

_________________________

Sosnovsky, M.D.

Biomedical Translation & Editing

English > Russian < French

Moscow, Russia

email: mail@...

http://www.biomedtrans.ru

Tel.: +7

Fax: +1

Skype: alex_sosnovsky

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Most people with a lower level of education would not understand that term.

However, people with a higher level of education might not understand it either

if they are not familiar with medical terminology. If this questionnaire is

intended for patients, they may already be familiar with this term because they

had dealt with it in discussions with their doctors. In this case, it's

familiarity with the medical context and not level of education that matters.

Regards,

Olga Karkalas

Wednesday, November 14, 2007, 10:24:38 AM, you wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,

> I am checking a Russian translation of Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS). The

> statements are like these:

> I do not experience orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

> I experience mild orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

> I experience moderate orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and sometimes

> have to sit back down for relief

> I experience severe orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and frequently have

> to sit back down for relief

> etc.

> The problem is with " orthostatic symptoms " . The client says that the

> respondents could potentially be of any level of education. The translator's

> " ортоÑтатичеÑкие Ñимптомы " is actually loan translation

that uses Latin

> roots and is not intelligible to most people here. However, it is really

> difficult to substitute it with a brief equivalent.

> What about native EN speakers of a low educational level: would they

> understand what " orthostatic symptoms " are without special explications? If

> they can, I think that I must find a simpler term. If they can not, I assume

> that this problem exists in the original EN version, and therefore a

> technical term is permissible in translation.

[Guest guest]

Hello

I agree with Olga. If the questionnaire's target user group is for example

the subset of chronic fatigue patients who present with orthostatic

intolerance, whatever their level of education they are likely to be

familiar with the expression " orthostatic symptoms " , much more than

patients with a high level of academic attainment and general linguistic

sophistication.

Owen

At 11:36 14/11/2007 -0500, you wrote:

>

>Hi ,

>

>Most people with a lower level of education would not understand that

term. However, people with a higher level of education might not understand

it either if they are not familiar with medical terminology. If this

questionnaire is intended for patients, they may already be familiar with

this term because they had dealt with it in discussions with their doctors.

In this case, it's familiarity with the medical context and not level of

education that matters.

>

>Regards,

>Olga Karkalas

>

>Wednesday, November 14, 2007, 10:24:38 AM, you wrote:

>

>> Dear Colleagues,

>

>> I am checking a Russian translation of Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS). The

>> statements are like these:

>

>> I do not experience orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

>> I experience mild orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

>> I experience moderate orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and sometimes

>> have to sit back down for relief

>> I experience severe orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and frequently

have

>> to sit back down for relief

>> etc.

>

>> The problem is with " orthostatic symptoms " . The client says that the

>> respondents could potentially be of any level of education. The

translator's

>> " ортоÑтатичеÑкие Ñимптомы " is actually loan

translation that uses Latin

>> roots and is not intelligible to most people here. However, it is really

>> difficult to substitute it with a brief equivalent.

>

>> What about native EN speakers of a low educational level: would they

>> understand what " orthostatic symptoms " are without special explications? If

>> they can, I think that I must find a simpler term. If they can not, I

assume

>> that this problem exists in the original EN version, and therefore a

>> technical term is permissible in translation.

>

>

>

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

A further thought. If there is an introductory section to this questionnaire, I

would add an explanation for orthostatic symptoms (or orthostatic depending on

the context). If there is no introductory text, then adding an explanation where

the term first occurs might be useful (orthostatic symptoms, i.e., symptoms that

occur ...). This would explain the term to those unfamiliar with it and make

sure that patients/respondents who think they know what it means will interpret

the term in the same way.

Regards,

Olga Karkalas

Wednesday, November 14, 2007, 10:24:38 AM, you wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,

> I am checking a Russian translation of Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS). The

> statements are like these:

> I do not experience orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

> I experience mild orthostatic symptoms when I stand up

> I experience moderate orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and sometimes

> have to sit back down for relief

> I experience severe orthostatic symptoms when I stand up and frequently have

> to sit back down for relief

> etc.

> The problem is with " orthostatic symptoms " . The client says that the

> respondents could potentially be of any level of education. The translator's

> " ортоÑтатичеÑкие Ñимптомы " is actually loan translation

that uses Latin

> roots and is not intelligible to most people here. However, it is really

> difficult to substitute it with a brief equivalent.

> What about native EN speakers of a low educational level: would they

> understand what " orthostatic symptoms " are without special explications? If

> they can, I think that I must find a simpler term. If they can not, I assume

> that this problem exists in the original EN version, and therefore a

> technical term is permissible in translation.

> Thank you

>

> _________________________

> Sosnovsky, M.D.

> Biomedical Translation & Editing

English >> Russian < French

> Moscow, Russia

> email: mail@...

> http://www.biomedtrans.ru

> Tel.: +7

> Fax: +1

> Skype: alex_sosnovsky

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Colleagues,

Thank you for your helpful advice. Now I am prepared to discuss this problem

with the client in more detail.

I understand that this questionnaire is addressed to chronically ill persons

who have already received some kind of education on their disease.

Also, you were kind enough not to reproach me for misplacing " orthostatic "

into the Latin language

Best regards,

_________________________

Sosnovsky, M.D.

Biomedical Translation & Editing

English > Russian < French

Moscow, Russia

email: mail@...

http://www.biomedtrans.ru

Tel.: +7

Fax: +1

Skype: alex_sosnovsky

[Guest guest]

I fully agree with Astrid. I know, for instance, that my clients are

enjoying my translations of informed consents, because I do add an

explanation, into brackets in the body of the text, for any complex medical

term. I don't even ask before to the client if s/he agrees, I just do it

systematically. And clients are happy, and tell it.

AW: Orthostatic Grading Scale (OGS)

> I beg to disagree.

>

>

>

> Adding explanations is necessary in many cases, because there is no

> equivalent in the target language. Of course, the client needs to be aware

> of that and often explanations need to be discussed with the client.

>

>

>

> High quality medical translation requires a variety of skills including

the

> ability to judge the appropriateness of terminology.

>

>

>

> Any other approach implies that the work delivered by medical translators

is

> equivalent to the quality produced by machines. I consider this

> unprofessional

>

> and potentially even unethical with regards to the wider professional

> obligation we have as translators.

>

> A good example in the non-medical field are academic qualifications. In an

> earlier issue of the ATA Chronicle I read a very interesting about the

> necessity of explaining foreign academic degrees and qualifications. This

> article included a few examples of the disastrous consequences a literal

> translation (without explanation) may have and in fact had in some cases.

>

>

>

> The ultimate decision remains with the client, but it is the professional

> and moral obligation of a qualified translator to inform the client

> accordingly, because they may not be aware of the problem.

>

>

>

>

>

> Reverting to the actual problem, and how to solve it, some colleagues

> including Olga and Bernard have come forward with some great ideas.

> Personally, I suggest to discuss these possibilities with the client. If

> discussion is not possible, there is always the possibility to add

> translator's notes and leave the final decision to the client.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> For what it's worth!

>

>

>

> Astrid

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Olga,

> A translator cannot add explanations, imo. That is the author's job. Our

job

>

> is to translate what it says, using the same register, not act as

volunteer

> editors. The most we can do is send comments to the client.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>