Re: breast cancer treatment

[Guest guest]

Thank you, ...

The patient started the diet before coming in to see me, and after her own

research on success stories, decided to follow it. The only recommendation

I made to her in modifying the diet was regarding the high soy intake. I

recommended that IF she wants to take soy (which is highly debated in

estrogen related conditions, I explained), to only take the least-processed

versions (i.e. tempeh/miso). I advised her to eliminate tofu. Otherwise,

it is basically whole grains (brown rice, millet, barley) at every meal and

veggies/azuki beans/lentils--no fruit at this time, but it'll be added

later, from what she describes. She takes seeds, like pumpkin, and ground

flax seeds daily. The only veggies she eats now are: onions, carrots,

broccoli, squashes, cauliflower, daikon radishes, cabbage.

She does take a twig tea (Basha), which has caffeine, but gave up coffee...

I am not familiar with macrobiotic diets, I suppose its time to read up!!

Patient also asked me about coffee enemas, and I must admit, I know nothing

about it, other than hearing about it here and there in passing. Any

thoughts on that?

Okay, thanks on the advice to determine the type of chemo and the other

status reports. Where is there some reliable resource material I can get my

hands on?? Do you have some solid texts or resources I can look up and/or

purchase somewhere? This is new (and scary) territory for me... I don't

feel adequately prepared, and that is unsettling.

Thanks for any and all direction to the resources and general

suggestions!!!!

Cheers,

Tami

Re: breast cancer treatment

>

> Tami - You need to know identify the chemo she is dealing with before

> you can really make up a chemo support/protection interactive

> protocol, although a few general principles of course apply as you say.

> Also the details of the tumor pathology are important, HER-2/neu status

> etc. Personally i would never recommend a macrobiotic diet - excessive

> carbohydrates which fuel insulin related growth factor IGF-1. Others of

> course, may disagree.

> At early clinical stages, its not always worth fighting over. in stage

> 4...another matter. jonathan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>>

>> Greetings, All...

>> I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been recently

>> diagnosed with breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2. She

>> had a lumpectomy on November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before

>> starting chemo (scheduled to start next week, she was still undecided

>> about starting it at the time of her visit to me). I have her on a

>> fluid extract, a tea, and an external creme for the healing of the

>> surgery (her primary concerns were scarring, lymph drainage and

>> immune/vitality support). I recommended a few additional supplements

>> to support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70% estrogen dependent),

>> and tissue healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed oils

>> for EFA's).

>>

>> She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated caffeine, and seems to

>> be taking control of this situation. Other family members have been

>> diagnosed with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian for

>> about 8 years prior to the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken

>> for biopsy, both negative.

>>

>> Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs and interactions

>> with the chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of her

>> current formulations center around lymphatic support, immume/general

>> vitality support, tissue healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous

>> support, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas

>> to consider. I started her on the herbs on December 28, and supplied

>> her with 3 weeks of herbs with a follow up scheduled after commencing

>> chemo treatment.

>>

>> I know there are additional wonderfully specific herbs for her

>> condition that I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I got

>> substantial doses of each herb that I chose to put in the mixes.

>> Although, I am always open to feedback and suggestions...

>>

>> Here are her 3 prescriptions:

>>

>> Rx 1 (tincture)

>> Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

>> Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

>> Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

>> Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin, anti-inflammatory, bitter

>> Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

>> Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor, tonic,

>> cleansing, anti-cancer

>> sig. 7.5 ml bid

>>

>> Rx 2 (tea)

>> Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

>> Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

>> Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

>> Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

>> warming, endurance

>> Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier, specific in breast cancer

>> Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory, mild bitter

>> sig. 3-4 cups daily

>>

>> Rx 3 (creme--external)

>> Calendula base 85 g

>> Centella tr 5

>> Calendula tr 5

>> Hypericum oil 5

>> Rosehip seed oil 5

>> Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

>> sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

>>

>> Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug interactions in this

>> case...

>> Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

>> New Jersey, USA

>> sundancewellness@...

>>

>>

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

mainly to Jonathon

the last time I wrote to a consultant about HER status and a pt, I was told they

only establish this if and when there is a recurrence. Can you clarify around

HER status and its importance to us. They can only tell us if the tumour is

oestrogen responsive.

thanks,

> Message date : Jan 09 2005, 03:10 AM

> From : " Treasure "

> To : ukherbal-list

> Copy to :

> Subject : Re: breast cancer treatment

>

> Tami - You need to know identify the chemo she is dealing with before

> you can really make up a chemo support/protection interactive

> protocol, although a few general principles of course apply as you say.

> Also the details of the tumor pathology are important, HER-2/neu status

> etc. Personally i would never recommend a macrobiotic diet - excessive

> carbohydrates which fuel insulin related growth factor IGF-1. Others of

> course, may disagree.

> At early clinical stages, its not always worth fighting over. in stage

> 4...another matter. jonathan

>

>

>

>

--

Whatever you Wanadoo:

http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/

This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at:

http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm

[Guest guest]

,

Very often the standards of practice seem to vary widely between

oncologists and oncological units. It is unconscionable however to NOT

test breast Ca. for HER-2/neu. This is receptor is in the erB growth

factor family of proteins, which, if overexpressed by a breast tumor is

indicative of a more aggressive clinical course. A cell block can be

tested, and the best method is FISH. (fluorescent in-situ

hybridisation). Other methods may yield false negatives. The main point

is that today, there is a recombinant drug called trastumuzab

(herceptin) which is a humanised monoclonal antibody (mca) to the

HER-2/neu receptor, and which can be extremely effective in the overall

treatment of these tumors, both primary and secondary. It can be used

in conjunction with other agents, or alone. As an m.c.a. drug it is

relatively non-toxic, although there are issues about cardiac toxicity.

Since the drug is relatively expensive, it is possible that the oncol

facility concerned is not testing routinely in order to avoid the

political consequences of failing to treat the patient effectively due

to their call on budget factors, but that is outrageous. i seem to

remember reading in the BBC world service a while back that the NHS was

debating the issue of Herceptin expense and there was a bit of a barney

going on as to whether it should be given or not due to cost.

Appalling. The drug is a total life saver.

jonathan

>

> mainly to Jonathon

> the last time I wrote to a consultant about HER status and a pt, I was

> told they only establish this if and when there is a recurrence. Can

> you clarify around HER status and its importance to us. They can only

> tell us if the tumour is oestrogen responsive.

> thanks,

>

>

>

>

>

>> Message date : Jan 09 2005, 03:10 AM

>> From : " Treasure "

>> To : ukherbal-list

>> Copy to :

>> Subject : Re: breast cancer treatment

>>

>> Tami - You need to know identify the chemo she is dealing with before

>> you can really make up a chemo support/protection interactive

>> protocol, although a few general principles of course apply as you

>> say.

>> Also the details of the tumor pathology are important, HER-2/neu

>> status

>> etc. Personally i would never recommend a macrobiotic diet - excessive

>> carbohydrates which fuel insulin related growth factor IGF-1. Others

>> of

>> course, may disagree.

>> At early clinical stages, its not always worth fighting over. in stage

>> 4...another matter. jonathan

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

> --

>

> Whatever you Wanadoo:

> http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/

>

> This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at:

> http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Jonathon

Obviously I need to discuss this with the patient. She is now undergoing

radiotherapy. I agree, I am appalled at the huge variation in UK of expertese,

treatment. Another friend rececently rec for mastectomy, was able to have

lumpectomy with more skilled on the ball consultant. Similarly sentinel node

biopsy still very unavailable here due to lack of training . Also last pt i had,

i suggested she look at getting progesterone IUD removed...breast care nurse

said she had never been asked about this before, and doctor, when issue raised

said it might be " a good idea " . I find my own level of ignorance also hard to

deal with in this morrass of investigations treatment etd. Trying to get hold of

" breast cancer for dummies " but not easy to obtain here.

hilary

> Message date : Jan 09 2005, 01:48 PM

> From : " Treasure "

> To : ukherbal-list

> Copy to :

> Subject : Re: breast cancer treatment

>

> ,

> Very often the standards of practice seem to vary widely between

> oncologists and oncological units. It is unconscionable however to NOT

> test breast Ca. for HER-2/neu. This is receptor is in the erB growth

> factor family of proteins, which, if overexpressed by a breast tumor is

> indicative of a more aggressive clinical course. A cell block can be

> tested, and the best method is FISH. (fluorescent in-situ

> hybridisation). Other methods may yield false negatives. The main point

> is that today, there is a recombinant drug called trastumuzab

> (herceptin) which is a humanised monoclonal antibody (mca) to the

> HER-2/neu receptor, and which can be extremely effective in the overall

> treatment of these tumors, both primary and secondary. It can be used

> in conjunction with other agents, or alone. As an m.c.a. drug it is

> relatively non-toxic, although there are issues about cardiac toxicity.

>

> Since the drug is relatively expensive, it is possible that the oncol

> facility concerned is not testing routinely in order to avoid the

> political consequences of failing to treat the patient effectively due

> to their call on budget factors, but that is outrageous. i seem to

> remember reading in the BBC world service a while back that the NHS was

> debating the issue of Herceptin expense and there was a bit of a barney

> going on as to whether it should be given or not due to cost.

> Appalling. The drug is a total life saver.

>

> jonathan

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> >

> > mainly to Jonathon

> > the last time I wrote to a consultant about HER status and a pt, I was

> > told they only establish this if and when there is a recurrence. Can

> > you clarify around HER status and its importance to us. They can only

> > tell us if the tumour is oestrogen responsive.

> > thanks,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >> Message date : Jan 09 2005, 03:10 AM

> >> From : " Treasure "

> >> To : ukherbal-list

> >> Copy to :

> >> Subject : Re: breast cancer treatment

> >>

> >> Tami - You need to know identify the chemo she is dealing with before

> >> you can really make up a chemo support/protection interactive

> >> protocol, although a few general principles of course apply as you

> >> say.

> >> Also the details of the tumor pathology are important, HER-2/neu

> >> status

> >> etc. Personally i would never recommend a macrobiotic diet - excessive

> >> carbohydrates which fuel insulin related growth factor IGF-1. Others

> >> of

> >> course, may disagree.

> >> At early clinical stages, its not always worth fighting over. in stage

> >> 4...another matter. jonathan

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >>

> >

> > --

> >

> > Whatever you Wanadoo:

> > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/time/

> >

> > This email has been checked for most known viruses - find out more at:

> > http://www.wanadoo.co.uk/help/id/7098.htm

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What is the typical dosage of the Slippery Elm tablets from Phyto... I've

got them in stock, but not sure on " standard " timing/dosage/frequency of

them... any thoughts?

Tami

NJ USA

Re: breast cancer treatment

> Tami,

>

> I would usually give more supportive tx through chemo to help the body

> deal

> with its SFX eg. Curcuma or Silybum for liver, Crategus etc for

> circulation

> (vital due to Cxt¹s vascular damage), Glycyrrhiza for its a/inflamm,

> adrenal

> effects, and give Zingiber, plus Slippery elm powder/tabs during Cxt to

> help

> prevent nausea.

>

> I myself don¹t give anti-tumour detox herbs at this stage, but after

> Cxt

> and Dxt (radiotherapy). Some evidence for such supportive tx comes from

> China

> (Ruth Trickey in Australia uses this regime too), where herbs are given

> frequently (routinely?) alongside Cxt. No real evidence I believe for

> herb

> interaction or antioxidant effects reducing Cxt efficacy as far as I know.

> Curcuma may help the Cxt efficacy.

> Your Tr mix looks great for post-tx cleansing and prophylaxis. Also, I

> always

> now give

> Also if she goes through Dxt, best probably to avoid creams with essential

> oils. Aloe vera gel (fresh from plant if poss) often used here in

> hospitals

> too during Dxt topically to breast, even lavender. But your cream looks

> delicious for her scarring while on Cxt.

>

Best wishes,

Laird BScHons DipPhyt MNIMH

Medical Herbalist (London Haven, breast cancer support centre)

68 Hurlingham Rd

London SW6 3RQ

Tel 0

Fax 020 7371 8450

Email alsl@...

>

> Greetings, All...

> I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been recently diagnosed

> with

> breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2. She had a lumpectomy on

> November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before starting chemo (scheduled

> to

> start next week, she was still undecided about starting it at the time of

> her

> visit to me). I have her on a fluid extract, a tea, and an external creme

> for

> the healing of the surgery (her primary concerns were scarring, lymph

> drainage

> and immune/vitality support). I recommended a few additional supplements

> to

> support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70% estrogen dependent), and

> tissue

> healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed oils for EFA's).

>

> She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated caffeine, and seems to be

> taking control of this situation. Other family members have been

> diagnosed

> with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian for about 8 years

> prior to

> the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken for biopsy, both negative.

>

> Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs and interactions with

> the

> chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of her current

> formulations

> center around lymphatic support, immume/general vitality support, tissue

> healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous support, anti-inflammatory,

> anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas to consider. I started her on

> the

> herbs on December 28, and supplied her with 3 weeks of herbs with a follow

> up

> scheduled after commencing chemo treatment.

>

> I know there are additional wonderfully specific herbs for her condition

> that

> I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I got substantial doses of

> each herb that I chose to put in the mixes. Although, I am always open to

> feedback and suggestions...

>

> Here are her 3 prescriptions:

>

> Rx 1 (tincture)

> Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

> Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

> Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

> Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin, anti-inflammatory, bitter

> Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

> Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor, tonic,

> cleansing, anti-cancer

> sig. 7.5 ml bid

>

> Rx 2 (tea)

> Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

> Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

> Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

> Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

> warming,

> endurance

> Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier, specific in breast cancer

> Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory, mild bitter

> sig. 3-4 cups daily

>

> Rx 3 (creme--external)

> Calendula base 85 g

> Centella tr 5

> Calendula tr 5

> Hypericum oil 5

> Rosehip seed oil 5

> Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

> sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

>

> Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug interactions in this case...

> Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

> New Jersey, USA

> sundancewellness@...

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tami,

I think you can be quite flexible with slippery elm

tablets depending on the symptoms. I follow the

principle: the more severe symptoms the more slippery

elm, but I wouldn't probably use more than 6 per day

(in 3 doses, after food, with lots of water).

Generally, I leave it up to patients to regulate the

dose after some experimenting and most need one or two

tablets a day, or use it when needed (e.g. when having

heartburn).

Hope it helps

--- Tami Bronstein

wrote:

---------------------------------

What is the typical dosage of the Slippery Elm tablets

from Phyto... I've

got them in stock, but not sure on " standard "

timing/dosage/frequency of

them... any thoughts?

Tami

NJ USA

Re: breast cancer treatment

> Tami,

>

> I would usually give more supportive tx through

chemo to help the body

> deal

> with its SFX eg. Curcuma or Silybum for liver,

Crategus etc for

> circulation

> (vital due to Cxt¹s vascular damage), Glycyrrhiza

for its a/inflamm,

> adrenal

> effects, and give Zingiber, plus Slippery elm

powder/tabs during Cxt to

> help

> prevent nausea.

>

> I myself don¹t give anti-tumour detox herbs at

this stage, but after

> Cxt

> and Dxt (radiotherapy). Some evidence for such

supportive tx comes from

> China

> (Ruth Trickey in Australia uses this regime too),

where herbs are given

> frequently (routinely?) alongside Cxt. No real

evidence I believe for

> herb

> interaction or antioxidant effects reducing Cxt

efficacy as far as I know.

> Curcuma may help the Cxt efficacy.

> Your Tr mix looks great for post-tx cleansing and

prophylaxis. Also, I

> always

> now give

> Also if she goes through Dxt, best probably to avoid

creams with essential

> oils. Aloe vera gel (fresh from plant if poss)

often used here in

> hospitals

> too during Dxt topically to breast, even lavender.

But your cream looks

> delicious for her scarring while on Cxt.

>

Best wishes,

Laird BScHons DipPhyt MNIMH

Medical Herbalist (London Haven, breast cancer support

centre)

68 Hurlingham Rd

London SW6 3RQ

Tel 0

Fax 020 7371 8450

Email alsl@...

>

> Greetings, All...

> I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been

recently diagnosed

> with

> breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2.

She had a lumpectomy on

> November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before

starting chemo (scheduled

> to

> start next week, she was still undecided about

starting it at the time of

> her

> visit to me). I have her on a fluid extract, a tea,

and an external creme

> for

> the healing of the surgery (her primary concerns

were scarring, lymph

> drainage

> and immune/vitality support). I recommended a few

additional supplements

> to

> support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70%

estrogen dependent), and

> tissue

> healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed

oils for EFA's).

>

> She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated

caffeine, and seems to be

> taking control of this situation. Other family

members have been

> diagnosed

> with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian

for about 8 years

> prior to

> the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken for

biopsy, both negative.

>

> Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs

and interactions with

> the

> chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of

her current

> formulations

> center around lymphatic support, immume/general

vitality support, tissue

> healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous support,

anti-inflammatory,

> anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas to

consider. I started her on

> the

> herbs on December 28, and supplied her with 3 weeks

of herbs with a follow

> up

> scheduled after commencing chemo treatment.

>

> I know there are additional wonderfully specific

herbs for her condition

> that

> I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I

got substantial doses of

> each herb that I chose to put in the mixes.

Although, I am always open to

> feedback and suggestions...

>

> Here are her 3 prescriptions:

>

> Rx 1 (tincture)

> Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

> Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

> Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

> Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin,

anti-inflammatory, bitter

> Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

> Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory,

anti-tumor, tonic,

> cleansing, anti-cancer

> sig. 7.5 ml bid

>

> Rx 2 (tea)

> Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

> Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

> Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

> Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune

stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

> warming,

> endurance

> Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier,

specific in breast cancer

> Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory,

mild bitter

> sig. 3-4 cups daily

>

> Rx 3 (creme--external)

> Calendula base 85 g

> Centella tr 5

> Calendula tr 5

> Hypericum oil 5

> Rosehip seed oil 5

> Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

> sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

>

> Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug

interactions in this case...

> Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

> New Jersey, USA

> sundancewellness@...

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

removed]

>

>

>

>

> List Owner

>

>

>

> Graham White, MNIMH

>

[Guest guest]

Tami - I have a friend who brings back from the States some

wonderful Slippery Elm throat lozenges which melt in the mouth;

they're made by Thayer's and are the best I've used.

>

> ---------------------------------

> What is the typical dosage of the Slippery Elm tablets

> from Phyto... I've

> got them in stock, but not sure on " standard "

> timing/dosage/frequency of

> them... any thoughts?

> Tami

> NJ USA

>

> Re: breast cancer treatment

>

>

>

> > Tami,

> >

> > I would usually give more supportive tx through

> chemo to help the body

> > deal

> > with its SFX eg. Curcuma or Silybum for liver,

> Crategus etc for

> > circulation

> > (vital due to Cxt¹s vascular damage), Glycyrrhiza

> for its a/inflamm,

> > adrenal

> > effects, and give Zingiber, plus Slippery elm

> powder/tabs during Cxt to

> > help

> > prevent nausea.

> >

> > I myself don¹t give anti-tumour detox herbs at

> this stage, but after

> > Cxt

> > and Dxt (radiotherapy). Some evidence for such

> supportive tx comes from

> > China

> > (Ruth Trickey in Australia uses this regime too),

> where herbs are given

> > frequently (routinely?) alongside Cxt. No real

> evidence I believe for

> > herb

> > interaction or antioxidant effects reducing Cxt

> efficacy as far as I know.

> > Curcuma may help the Cxt efficacy.

> > Your Tr mix looks great for post-tx cleansing and

> prophylaxis. Also, I

> > always

> > now give

> > Also if she goes through Dxt, best probably to avoid

> creams with essential

> > oils. Aloe vera gel (fresh from plant if poss)

> often used here in

> > hospitals

> > too during Dxt topically to breast, even lavender.

> But your cream looks

> > delicious for her scarring while on Cxt.

> >

> Best wishes,

>

> Laird BScHons DipPhyt MNIMH

> Medical Herbalist (London Haven, breast cancer support

> centre)

> 68 Hurlingham Rd

> London SW6 3RQ

> Tel 0

> Fax 020 7371 8450

> Email alsl@b...

>

>

> >

> > Greetings, All...

> > I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been

> recently diagnosed

> > with

> > breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2.

> She had a lumpectomy on

> > November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before

> starting chemo (scheduled

> > to

> > start next week, she was still undecided about

> starting it at the time of

> > her

> > visit to me). I have her on a fluid extract, a tea,

> and an external creme

> > for

> > the healing of the surgery (her primary concerns

> were scarring, lymph

> > drainage

> > and immune/vitality support). I recommended a few

> additional supplements

> > to

> > support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70%

> estrogen dependent), and

> > tissue

> > healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed

> oils for EFA's).

> >

> > She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated

> caffeine, and seems to be

> > taking control of this situation. Other family

> members have been

> > diagnosed

> > with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian

> for about 8 years

> > prior to

> > the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken for

> biopsy, both negative.

> >

> > Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs

> and interactions with

> > the

> > chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of

> her current

> > formulations

> > center around lymphatic support, immume/general

> vitality support, tissue

> > healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous support,

> anti-inflammatory,

> > anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas to

> consider. I started her on

> > the

> > herbs on December 28, and supplied her with 3 weeks

> of herbs with a follow

> > up

> > scheduled after commencing chemo treatment.

> >

> > I know there are additional wonderfully specific

> herbs for her condition

> > that

> > I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I

> got substantial doses of

> > each herb that I chose to put in the mixes.

> Although, I am always open to

> > feedback and suggestions...

> >

> > Here are her 3 prescriptions:

> >

> > Rx 1 (tincture)

> > Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

> > Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

> > Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

> > Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin,

> anti-inflammatory, bitter

> > Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

> > Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory,

> anti-tumor, tonic,

> > cleansing, anti-cancer

> > sig. 7.5 ml bid

> >

> > Rx 2 (tea)

> > Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

> > Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

> > Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

> > Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune

> stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

> > warming,

> > endurance

> > Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier,

> specific in breast cancer

> > Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory,

> mild bitter

> > sig. 3-4 cups daily

> >

> > Rx 3 (creme--external)

> > Calendula base 85 g

> > Centella tr 5

> > Calendula tr 5

> > Hypericum oil 5

> > Rosehip seed oil 5

> > Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

> > sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

> >

> > Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug

> interactions in this case...

> > Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

> > New Jersey, USA

> > sundancewellness@e...

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > List Owner

> >

> >

> >

> > Graham White, MNIMH

> >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, ...

I did just that today! What a relief! Actually, I didn't charge the

patient this time around (considering she is buying 3 additional mixes from

me)... only 60 tablets... I figure we'll see how she does and settle on a

dose by next follow up.

Thanks again... I have a second question to follow for those of you out

there with TCM knowledge... More to follow...

Tami

NJ USA

Re: breast cancer treatment

>

>

>

>> Tami,

>>

>> I would usually give more supportive tx through

> chemo to help the body

>> deal

>> with its SFX eg. Curcuma or Silybum for liver,

> Crategus etc for

>> circulation

>> (vital due to Cxt¹s vascular damage), Glycyrrhiza

> for its a/inflamm,

>> adrenal

>> effects, and give Zingiber, plus Slippery elm

> powder/tabs during Cxt to

>> help

>> prevent nausea.

>>

>> I myself don¹t give anti-tumour detox herbs at

> this stage, but after

>> Cxt

>> and Dxt (radiotherapy). Some evidence for such

> supportive tx comes from

>> China

>> (Ruth Trickey in Australia uses this regime too),

> where herbs are given

>> frequently (routinely?) alongside Cxt. No real

> evidence I believe for

>> herb

>> interaction or antioxidant effects reducing Cxt

> efficacy as far as I know.

>> Curcuma may help the Cxt efficacy.

>> Your Tr mix looks great for post-tx cleansing and

> prophylaxis. Also, I

>> always

>> now give

>> Also if she goes through Dxt, best probably to avoid

> creams with essential

>> oils. Aloe vera gel (fresh from plant if poss)

> often used here in

>> hospitals

>> too during Dxt topically to breast, even lavender.

> But your cream looks

>> delicious for her scarring while on Cxt.

>>

> Best wishes,

>

> Laird BScHons DipPhyt MNIMH

> Medical Herbalist (London Haven, breast cancer support

> centre)

> 68 Hurlingham Rd

> London SW6 3RQ

> Tel 0

> Fax 020 7371 8450

> Email alsl@...

>

>

>>

>> Greetings, All...

>> I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been

> recently diagnosed

>> with

>> breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2.

> She had a lumpectomy on

>> November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before

> starting chemo (scheduled

>> to

>> start next week, she was still undecided about

> starting it at the time of

>> her

>> visit to me). I have her on a fluid extract, a tea,

> and an external creme

>> for

>> the healing of the surgery (her primary concerns

> were scarring, lymph

>> drainage

>> and immune/vitality support). I recommended a few

> additional supplements

>> to

>> support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70%

> estrogen dependent), and

>> tissue

>> healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed

> oils for EFA's).

>>

>> She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated

> caffeine, and seems to be

>> taking control of this situation. Other family

> members have been

>> diagnosed

>> with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian

> for about 8 years

>> prior to

>> the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken for

> biopsy, both negative.

>>

>> Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs

> and interactions with

>> the

>> chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of

> her current

>> formulations

>> center around lymphatic support, immume/general

> vitality support, tissue

>> healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous support,

> anti-inflammatory,

>> anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas to

> consider. I started her on

>> the

>> herbs on December 28, and supplied her with 3 weeks

> of herbs with a follow

>> up

>> scheduled after commencing chemo treatment.

>>

>> I know there are additional wonderfully specific

> herbs for her condition

>> that

>> I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I

> got substantial doses of

>> each herb that I chose to put in the mixes.

> Although, I am always open to

>> feedback and suggestions...

>>

>> Here are her 3 prescriptions:

>>

>> Rx 1 (tincture)

>> Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

>> Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

>> Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

>> Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin,

> anti-inflammatory, bitter

>> Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

>> Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory,

> anti-tumor, tonic,

>> cleansing, anti-cancer

>> sig. 7.5 ml bid

>>

>> Rx 2 (tea)

>> Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

>> Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

>> Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

>> Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune

> stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

>> warming,

>> endurance

>> Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier,

> specific in breast cancer

>> Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory,

> mild bitter

>> sig. 3-4 cups daily

>>

>> Rx 3 (creme--external)

>> Calendula base 85 g

>> Centella tr 5

>> Calendula tr 5

>> Hypericum oil 5

>> Rosehip seed oil 5

>> Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

>> sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

>>

>> Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug

> interactions in this case...

>> Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

>> New Jersey, USA

>> sundancewellness@...

>>

>>

>>

>> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> List Owner

>>

>>

>>

>> Graham White, MNIMH

>>

[Guest guest]

Really? I have seen them on the counter at most health food shops. I'll

have to give them a try! Who'd have thought it would be right under my

nose, eh? I have the tablets from Phyto currently. What do you all charge

on average for tablets?

Tami

Re: breast cancer treatment

>

>

>

> > Tami,

> >

> > I would usually give more supportive tx through

> chemo to help the body

> > deal

> > with its SFX eg. Curcuma or Silybum for liver,

> Crategus etc for

> > circulation

> > (vital due to Cxt¹s vascular damage), Glycyrrhiza

> for its a/inflamm,

> > adrenal

> > effects, and give Zingiber, plus Slippery elm

> powder/tabs during Cxt to

> > help

> > prevent nausea.

> >

> > I myself don¹t give anti-tumour detox herbs at

> this stage, but after

> > Cxt

> > and Dxt (radiotherapy). Some evidence for such

> supportive tx comes from

> > China

> > (Ruth Trickey in Australia uses this regime too),

> where herbs are given

> > frequently (routinely?) alongside Cxt. No real

> evidence I believe for

> > herb

> > interaction or antioxidant effects reducing Cxt

> efficacy as far as I know.

> > Curcuma may help the Cxt efficacy.

> > Your Tr mix looks great for post-tx cleansing and

> prophylaxis. Also, I

> > always

> > now give

> > Also if she goes through Dxt, best probably to avoid

> creams with essential

> > oils. Aloe vera gel (fresh from plant if poss)

> often used here in

> > hospitals

> > too during Dxt topically to breast, even lavender.

> But your cream looks

> > delicious for her scarring while on Cxt.

> >

> Best wishes,

>

> Laird BScHons DipPhyt MNIMH

> Medical Herbalist (London Haven, breast cancer support

> centre)

> 68 Hurlingham Rd

> London SW6 3RQ

> Tel 0

> Fax 020 7371 8450

> Email alsl@b...

>

>

> >

> > Greetings, All...

> > I have a new patient, 46 year old woman who had been

> recently diagnosed

> > with

> > breast cancer, ductal carcinoma--stage 1/grade 2.

> She had a lumpectomy on

> > November 18, and came to see me (Dec 28) before

> starting chemo (scheduled

> > to

> > start next week, she was still undecided about

> starting it at the time of

> > her

> > visit to me). I have her on a fluid extract, a tea,

> and an external creme

> > for

> > the healing of the surgery (her primary concerns

> were scarring, lymph

> > drainage

> > and immune/vitality support). I recommended a few

> additional supplements

> > to

> > support estrogen clearance (her tumor was 70%

> estrogen dependent), and

> > tissue

> > healing (probiotics, bromelain/papain, cold pressed

> oils for EFA's).

> >

> > She has started a macrobiotic diet, eliminated

> caffeine, and seems to be

> > taking control of this situation. Other family

> members have been

> > diagnosed

> > with breast ca in their 40's. She was a vegetarian

> for about 8 years

> > prior to

> > the diagnosis. Only 2 lymph nodes were taken for

> biopsy, both negative.

> >

> > Are there any considerations with (specific) herbs

> and interactions with

> > the

> > chemo treatments that I should be aware of? Much of

> her current

> > formulations

> > center around lymphatic support, immume/general

> vitality support, tissue

> > healing, anti-mitotics/anti-tumor, nervous support,

> anti-inflammatory,

> > anti-oxidant... all of the " usual " areas to

> consider. I started her on

> > the

> > herbs on December 28, and supplied her with 3 weeks

> of herbs with a follow

> > up

> > scheduled after commencing chemo treatment.

> >

> > I know there are additional wonderfully specific

> herbs for her condition

> > that

> > I haven't included, but I wanted to ensure that I

> got substantial doses of

> > each herb that I chose to put in the mixes.

> Although, I am always open to

> > feedback and suggestions...

> >

> > Here are her 3 prescriptions:

> >

> > Rx 1 (tincture)

> > Phytolacca 5; lymphatic, tissue congestion

> > Centella 20; tissue healer, tonic, anti-inflammatory

> > Scrophularia 20; lymphatic, detox, anti-tumor

> > Berberis aquifol 20; detox the skin,

> anti-inflammatory, bitter

> > Thuja 20; anti-neoplastic/anti-mitotic (anti-tumor)

> > Tabebuia 20; immune stimulant, anti-inflammatory,

> anti-tumor, tonic,

> > cleansing, anti-cancer

> > sig. 7.5 ml bid

> >

> > Rx 2 (tea)

> > Galium 15; lymphatic, detoxifier

> > Urtica 10; nutritive tonic, cleansing/diuretic

> > Glycyrrhiza 15; adaptogen, anti-inflammatory

> > Astragalus 15; adaptogen, immune

> stimulant/modulator, energy tonic,

> > warming,

> > endurance

> > Trifolium 25; lymphatic, purifier/detoxifier,

> specific in breast cancer

> > Chamomile 20; soothing nervine, anti-inflammatory,

> mild bitter

> > sig. 3-4 cups daily

> >

> > Rx 3 (creme--external)

> > Calendula base 85 g

> > Centella tr 5

> > Calendula tr 5

> > Hypericum oil 5

> > Rosehip seed oil 5

> > Lavender e.o. 20 gtt

> > sig. massage to affected areas of the breast

> >

> > Thanks, All, for your thoughts on herb-drug

> interactions in this case...

> > Tami Bronstein, BSc Phyt, MNIMH, AHG, CMT

> > New Jersey, USA

> > sundancewellness@e...

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > List Owner

> >

> >

> >

> > Graham White, MNIMH

> >